Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[momochuu]

Ophelia who is that in your sig?

BoxxyBaybee

 

[Flan]

This agrument is pretty much everyone who mains Metaknight and plays only to win vs people who have tried every option to avoid banning Metaknight and still can't beat him.

I say that if the pro-ban is over 50% but under 66%, then all SWF tournaments should tem-ban Metaknight for one month and see what people think afterwards.

That being said, everyone going to Melee would be easier . No one argues in our game. But I realize that thats not the best option for some.

MK should be banned for everyone except M2K

 

[Red Arremer]

I say that if the pro-ban is over 50% but under 66%, then all SWF tournament should tem-ban Metaknight for one month and see what people think afterwards.

Even if it's only 50.01%?

That being said, everyone going to Melee would be easier . No one argue in our game. But I realize that thats not the best option for some.

Sorry, I don't want to play a game where I'm being put down by the community for physical handicaps.
Additionally, I prefer Brawl in general (because that handicap matters not as much).

Thank you very much.

 

[Hyro]

Well, of course the group that doesn't want to change something clearly doesn't have to proof anything?
They actually have only to disprove the arguments of the group that wants to change something.

Ninja'd by bobson. :V

Hmm...I guess I just didn't think they did a good job.

Or maybe they just didn't use big enough words!!

 

[Inui]

Inui, Dedede, Wario, MK, and Falco all have an advantage on Snake IMO (55-45 their favor).

Mythological, especially Falco. Sethlon almost threestocked my MK, then I won with Snake. HMMMMM.

lol, Falco doesn't have an advantage over snake. it's either even or snake's advantage.

^ This is true.

I've got a better question:

If snake beats MK, why is it that SNAKE was the #1 in Ankoku's chart and was toppled by METAKNIGHT?

O_o

Something doesn't add up. If Snake beat MK, more MKs would mean MORE Snake dominance... not knocking him off the #1 spot.

MK's metagame progressed at the speed of light. Snake lagged behind. Snake's catching up.

Ban Snake instead, he's better.

qft

 

[Flan]

Even if it's only 50.01%?

Sorry, I don't want to play a game where I'm being put down by the community for physical handicaps.
Additionally, I prefer Brawl in general (because that handicap matters not as much).

Thank you very much.

Maybe for one tournament per area if its that low?

I understand the physical handicaps for Melee. High-levels of play require you to pretty much just practice on your own for hours on end. That's why I stuck with Peach.

 

[Eazy23]

So what you're saying is that not only does Meta Knight have a theoretical advantage on Snake, but that he also executes this game plan with much greater ease? Because it's 55:45 MK based on theory craft too, it gets worse when you start bringing the human element in.

There is no definitive ratio for mk vs snake. I personally believe it to be in snakes advantage.

however what I am saying is that to execute the necessary playstyle to create the advantageous scenerios is a much more difficult task for snake and takes much more knowledge of the character than the mk does.

very similar to falco vs sheik in melee.

Falco beats sheik, however, it was much more difficult to execute the gameplan for falco than for sheik. It took much more control of character on the falco side than on the sheik side. Thus, tons of falcos were getting *****, and gimped by sheiks. Did this change the matchup numbers? No

Should the fact that more metas are beating snake change the matchup? No

The simple fact that most snakes are bad, and can't execute properly, and meta's execution (in this mathcup atleast, when fighting one of said snakes,) doesn't need to be anywhere near perfect is indeed a valid rebuttal to someone implying that mk dominance refutes the matchup theory that snake wins. Get me?

 

[Red Arremer]

I understand the physical handicaps for Melee. High-levels of play require you to pretty much just practice on your own for hours on end. That's why I stuck with Peach.

No... I mean... REAL handicaps. Like... you know... hereditary defects and such.

I tried playing Peach, but I still got put down by the Melee players in my area, so I gave up trying to play with them, and instead play the game I enjoy more.

 

[ETWIST51294]

MK's metagame progressed at the speed of light. Snake lagged behind. Snake's catching up.

This is the exact same thing i said.

 

[Teran]

This is the exact same thing i said.

Purple name = bigger audience.
Isn't that a bummer. xD

 

[BSP]

the arguement that the game is still evolving is starting to seem more and more valid, IMO

 

[황미영]

No... I mean... REAL handicaps. Like... you know... hereditary defects and such.

I tried playing Peach, but I still got put down by the Melee players in my area, so I gave up trying to play with them, and instead play the game I enjoy more.

Aww... D:
What douche bags! Don't let people put you down. :3

 

[Flan]

No... I mean... REAL handicaps. Like... you know... hereditary defects and such.

I tried playing Peach, but I still got put down by the Melee players in my area, so I gave up trying to play with them, and instead play the game I enjoy more.

Ah, yeah with herditary defects, I hear you.

Sucks that you get put down by people in your area. I kinda started the scene in my area and our community is always happy to get more players, even if they aren't as good as some others.

Our Brawl community isn't very serious either. Our best player is a Sonic player (and a great one at that, Infzy <3).

 

[Nintendevil]

the arguement that the game is still evolving is starting to seem more and more valid, IMO

I'd hardly say this game will evolve. Its just way too shallow. if this where Melee 2.0, it would be evolving like it was the first three months, but it isn't, it's Brawl.

 

[ETWIST51294]

I'd hardly say this game will evolve. Its just way too shallow. if this where Melee 2.0, it would be evolving like it was the first three months, but it isn't, it's Brawl.

Your right about that, but, Snake is a very deep character, he can do stuff that other characters can't do. Thats why i think in the future almost nothing will change besides snake.

 

[Snowstalker]

I voted no, but now I'm unsure. The arguments supporting the ban are pretty **** convincing.

 

[Fatmanonice]

Hmm... Well, I've thought about it for a day and I've decided to go with the pro-ban side. Granted, I think it goes against competitive standards but, as I've said in the past, I think the community would benefit much more with him gone and, overall, I believe that the pro-ban side has a much more convincing arguement. From how I see it:

Greatly benefit (definate tier list benefit):

Toon Link, Pit, Ice Climbers, ROB, King Dedede, Olimar, Pikachu, Marth

Slightly benefit (probable tier list benefit):

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Wario, Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Samus, Kirby, Fox, Wolf, Captain Falcon, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, Ike, Ness, Lucas, Mr. Game and Watch, Sonic

Slightly hurt (probable decline on tier list):

Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Zero Suit Samus, Falco, Snake

Greatly hurt (definate decline on tier list):

Yoshi, Metaknight , Jigglypuff

 

[SOVAman]

I voted no, but now I'm unsure. The arguments supporting the ban are pretty **** convincing.

wow way to vote before reading and being sure

<_<

 

[Teran]

Greatly benefit (definate tier list benefit):

Toon Link, Pit, Ice Climbers, ROB, King Dedede, Olimar, Falco, Pikachu, Marth

Hell no.
MK vs Falco is even which is greatly to Falco's advantage, as it massively boosts his viability.

MK also keeps Marth and ROB at bay, the former being a definite disadvantageous matchup for Falco, with ROB being a slight disadvantage imo.

With Marth and ROB being given a breath of life, Falco's viability would actually drop. =/

 

[OFY]

Why would it go against competitive standards to ban a character?

People continually bring this up, but banning characters from competitive play is not something new. Other fighting communities have banned characters, POF has brought this up.

Even if it is unprecedented in Smash history, it shouldn't matter.

 

[DFat2]

As Brawl progresses, more regions report Metaknight problems. Regions like Puerto Rico have quelled it with a soft ban on Metaknight counterpicks ("soft bans" are social stigmas against picking a character. In the case of Puerto Rico, people who switch to Metaknight during their counterpick find their names recorded and announced after the tournament, discouraging them from doing so), and many other regions similarly look down upon Metaknight mains. Other regions, such as SoCal, NorCal, Washington, Arizona, or Eastern Canada find their players and tournaments gradually becoming more MK-centric, and support the ban (several of these regions running MK-banned tournament series).

How did you get that info? I'm pretty sure none of us has stated doing so. Atleast not in SWF. Although we did do it for quite a while.

But I'm curious as too how you got that info O_o?

 

[SuSa]

I'd rathers face an MK as Falco then a Snake.

Yah. I'm weird like that.

 

[Eddie G]

I would put Peach on the greatly benefit list, actually. MK and Marth are really the only two characters that can wreck her when played brilliantly, Marth to a lesser extent. Not to mention she can just cp a stage to help her against Marth (like Delfino imo). No stage will help her against MK though because he will either still get early kills off the side or gimp her recovery, whatever comes first.

Well...Falco too on certain stages, most notably Japes and FD. Again, counterpicking helps against him as well.

So yeah, greatly benefit for sure.

 

[Red Arremer]

From how I see it:

Greatly benefit (definate tier list benefit):

Toon Link, Pit, Ice Climbers, ROB, King Dedede, Olimar, Falco, Pikachu, Marth

Slightly benefit (probable tier list benefit):

Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Wario, Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf, Samus, Kirby, Fox, Wolf, Captain Falcon, Pokemon Trainer, Lucario, Ike, Ness, Lucas, Mr. Game and Watch, Sonic

I marked the characters I don't know as well (Pit, Toon Link and Olimar) as Cyan, and the characters you're pretty wrong on with Red. :3

 

[TP]

Slightly benefit (probable tier list benefit):

Ganondorf

Nah, I disagree. Marth is a harder matchup, Pika is harder, ICs are freaking lol, Olimar is harder, and you have all of them benefiting from MK's ban. That means more of them, which is actually bad for Ganon.

After much thought, I voted pro-ban.

 

[Teran]

I'd rathers face an MK as Falco then a Snake.

Yah. I'm weird like that.

As a Falco main since the game's release, so would I...

You're not weird.

 

[Palpi]

wow way to vote before reading and being sure

<_<

Way to think MK deserves to be banned. >.>

If I were voting because I wanted Metaknight to be banned then I would probably vote yes, selfishly. I would have an easier time without having to were about Metaknight.

BUT

This is isn't if you want metaknight banned though, it is if you think he SHOULD be banned. I think a lot of voters fail to realize that when they click yes.

 

[Flayl]

Bowser does not benefit from MK leaving, at all. Less MKs means more Falcos, Olimars and D3's.

 

[SuSa]

Bowser does not benefit from MK leaving, at all. Less MKs means more Falcos, Olimars and D3's.

Same reason why Snake would be going down, and not be the best IMO.

 

[Sosuke]

Sad that some people think only pro-ban vote selfishly. haha

My name is Boooxxy and I support the ban. :3






*unsubscribes from thread again*

 

[BoTastic!]

I marked the characters I don't know as well (Pit, Toon Link and Olimar) as Cyan, and the characters you're pretty wrong on with Red. :3

You Marked Mario wrong? oooook.

 

[*_Echo_*]

Hmm... Well, I've thought about it for a day and I've decided to go with the pro-ban side. Granted, I think it goes against competitive standards but, as I've said in the past, I think the community would benefit much more with him gone and, overall, I believe that the pro-ban side has a much more convincing arguement. From how I see it:

Greatly benefit (definate tier list benefit):

Toon Link, Pit, Ice Climbers, ROB, King Dedede, Olimar, Falco, Pikachu, Marth

i think olimar would benifit a small amount, he cant go to much higher

 

[Fatmanonice]

Hell no.
MK vs Falco is even which is greatly to Falco's advantage, as it massively boosts his viability.

MK also keeps Marth and ROB at bay, the former being a definite disadvantageous matchup for Falco, with ROB being a slight disadvantage imo.

With Marth and ROB being given a breath of life, Falco's viability would actually drop. =/

Hmm... point taken. I'll change that then. For Falco, I was more focused on how he did against Snake and King Dedede, to be completely honest.

 

[Leafplayer452]

I just hope Metaknight doesnt get banned cuz then more Snakes.....T_________T I hate Snake

 

[Snowstalker]

Yoshi would probably see a drop (or a slight rise, seeing as he's WAY too low now). No MK means more Marths and G&Ws. MK is about 40:60, G&W is about 35:65, and Marth is either 35:65 or 30:70.

 

[SuSa]

@Leaf
If MK is banned and there is a rise in Olimar's, I'll probably drop Snake. <_<

Also 2-3 other Snake mains that I know of would also drop Snake if MK is banned......

 

[Red Arremer]

You Marked Mario wrong? oooook.

Yes. Considering that he still has a lot of hard matchups with Top and High Tier, his position will not change by much.
I generally think the tier list won't change much if Meta Knight would get banned.
The character's performance isn't judged on their performance against Meta Knight alone.

And I really doubt that the characters that hardly get played will recieve a huge boost of players, as well, thus resulting in more tournament representation.

The only thing a ban will bring for the Meta Knight mains is them either quitting (for instance, Mew2King, pretty certainly will quit) or switching to other Top Tier characters (Snake, Diddy, Falco, etc.).

 

[Marcbri]

I'd rathers face an MK as Falco then a Snake.

Yah. I'm weird like that.

no, its just that Falco does better vs MK than vs Snake ( cept if the MK planks, but that's usually banned)

 

[황미영]

I wanna see what good MK mains are going to do and see if they still ****. :O

 

[Palpi]

I don't think snake would go down SuSa. He didn't completley earn his #2 spot for being neutral~ with metaknight.