Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[MarKO X]

I've got a better question:

If snake beats MK, why is it that SNAKE was the #1 in Ankoku's chart and was toppled by METAKNIGHT?

O_o

Something doesn't add up. If Snake beat MK, more MKs would mean MORE Snake dominance... not knocking him off the #1 spot.

ooo! I got one.
If MK is so good, how'd you lose to a Sonic?

twice?

/memphischains impersonation

 

[Sephiroth27]

Yeah, Brawl's technically demanding, fast-paced style is hard to get used to after not playing for a bit.

 

[Falconv1.0]

You know, there are good players on M2K and Ally's level not named M2K and Ally.

>_<

And who the **** cares, you're making it so easy to just say 'get better', because apparently the argument now is that since you cant get to Ally's level with a character who goes even with MK, or anywhere close to that, MK should be banned. That wont change ANYTHING, all it will be is a big **** YOU to MK players. What the **** is the point of a ban if it wont actually change ANYTHING? SO YOU FEEL A LITTLE BETTER WHEN YOU LOSE TO A DIFFERENT 6/4 MATCH UP?

ARGH.

 

[Clai]

Inui, Dedede, Wario, MK, and Falco all have an advantage on Snake IMO (55-45 their favor).

Looks like Inui's going above Ganondorf on the next tier list. Come on...

I think a lot of people here who don't want him banned are average brawlers who don't know what he is capable of. I think I saw some loser talking about countering tornado with falcon punch or some crap. WTF. People on the the anti ban side are either MK users or people who probably never played a MK who was actually good. Once you get aircamped and gayed beyond recognition, then say if he doesn't need to be banned. (this obviously doesn't apply to everyone)

There are also people who are simply against the principle of banning a character from a competitive game. Seriously, how is banning Metaknight going to benefit the community in any way? All I see is that banning Metaknight will turn the community into a bunch of complainers who would rather remove a character because a lot of people like using him than to keep what I believe, and what several people have proven, to be a very beatable character.

There is a big difference between snake and MK. People actually believe snake has counters. Whether he does or doesn't because its all opinion people doesn't matter, at least think they have a chance. When some1 thinks of MK all you think of is an uphill battle with no options.

So we should applaud and cater to ignorance?

 

[POKE40]

I have a burning passion for this discussion to end >____>

 

[Eazy23]

Os- I don't see competent snake players such as Candy, anti, hrnut, ally, ultimaterazor etc having meta trouble. On lower levels of play, mk ***** snake for obvious reasons. Its simply easier to play mk at higher levels than it is to play snake, thus the rise of mk players. It doesn't change the fact that the matchup is or could be in snakes favor.

 

[stingers]

if you look at the results of the poll so far...

there are 12 purple names on the ban side (if you count chibo), 11 purple names on the don't ban side. with the 2 extra ban votes from the community poll, that makes the count 14-11. there needs to be 2/3 difference to ban, which means that ban would need at least 7 more votes while the don't ban would have to stay the same.

and i somehow doubt every SBR member that hasn't voted yet will go to the Ban side, so...we might as well just close this thing now

 

[TheMike]

I voted No
You guys can see that in most of the results, another char is winning. That means that people now know how to play against MK.

So, if someone can do it, the others that at present can't, should attend a better strategy so as to do so. Don't matter if you have to change a character to win. If any character can beat MK, IMO he cannot be banned.

Also, there were Evo South America a week ago here in Brazil, the results were:

1 Kovarish(Olimar)
2 Djudjo(Peach)
3 Leso(King Dedede, Lucas)
4 Chaudgobay(Wolf, Snake, Wario)
5 Affinity(MK)
5 R(MK)
7 Azgner(Snake)
7 Snego(Snake)

OBS.: we had 7 days of tournaments and that were the results of the final bracket.

Marc, if possible, it would be great if u put these results at the first post :D

And another thing, i have created a thread at the brazilian boards
Then, more people can come and vote!


Link --> http://s8.zetaboards.com/1UP_Smash_Board/topic/8100482/1/#new

And.. sorry for bad english

 

[Frown]

I have a burning passion for this discussion to end >____>

It is possibly the most important discussion in the history of SWF...

 

[Fatmanonice]

Yeah, Brawl's technically demanding, fast-paced style is hard to get used to after not playing for a bit.

Yep, no johns, Inui, no johns.

 

[etecoon]

It doesn't change the fact that the matchup is or could be in snakes favor.

I think Captain Falcon could be a MK counter, MK is just easier to play at a high level but Falcon could catch up.

 

[POKE40]

It is possibly the most important discussion in the history of SWF...

I know.
It drives me crazy just thinking about it.

 

[A1lion835]

I was sort of undecided on this. I read the pro-ban argument, which was long and convincing. I had to restrain myself from voting to ban him without reading the anti-ban side. Then I read it, expecting that they'd have a very good argument and that I'd be having second thoughts. I was wrong on that one.

*voted for ban*

 

[Kamikaze*]

Yeah, Brawl's technically demanding, fast-paced style is hard to get used to after not playing for a bit.

This post is a joke, right?

 

[Sevenes]

WTF?
No, he shouldn´t O_o

 

[blakinola]

Inui, DK goes toe to toe with Snake, don't be sayin stupid crap.

 

[Luur3]

I was sort of undecided on this. I read the pro-ban argument, which was long and convincing. I had to restrain myself from voting to ban him without reading the anti-ban side. Then I read it, expecting that they'd have a very good argument and that I'd be having second thoughts. I was wrong on that one.

*voted for ban*

Same. I would explain my reasoning after reading it, but I'm horrible with words and I'd probably look like a moron for it

 

[Hyro]

I was sort of undecided on this. I read the pro-ban argument, which was long and convincing. I had to restrain myself from voting to ban him without reading the anti-ban side. Then I read it, expecting that they'd have a very good argument and that I'd be having second thoughts. I was wrong on that one.

*voted for ban*

This ^^^^^

tl;dr

pro ban - *states argument*
anti ban - "nu uh"

 

[stingers]

if you look at the results of the poll so far...

there are 12 purple names on the ban side (if you count chibo), 11 purple names on the don't ban side. with the 2 extra ban votes from the community poll, that makes the count 14-11. there needs to be 2/3 difference to ban, which means that ban would need at least 7 more votes while the don't ban would have to stay the same.

and i somehow doubt every SBR member that hasn't voted yet will go to the Ban side, so...we might as well just close this thing now

because its true

 

[Frown]

Quick question... what if the pro-ban side (in the SBR) doesn't reach 66% but is above 50%? Will this conflict be forgot forever?

Edit: Changed question

 

[teh_spamerer]

Steel your not that smart cause if you were you wouldn't loose to a Samus at APEX. MK doesn't **** Marth, you and Eazy are stupid.

xzax1337 (2:58:39 PM): if mk camps
xzax1337 (2:58:44 PM): dont run at him
xzax1337 (2:58:48 PM): ok
xzax1337 (2:58:55 PM): and if u wait long enough
xzax1337 (2:59:01 PM): u will find an option
xzax1337 (2:59:05 PM): and abuse mk
xzax1337 (2:59:10 PM): get a percent lead
xzax1337 (2:59:14 PM): force him to approach
xzax1337 (2:59:18 PM): match up just changed
Boutdabux23 (2:59:24 PM): why will u find an option?
Boutdabux23 (2:59:28 PM): the mk is thinking the same thing
Boutdabux23 (2:59:36 PM): why r they automatically the player who ****s up?
xzax1337 (2:59:37 PM): um
xzax1337 (2:59:43 PM): cuz
xzax1337 (2:59:45 PM): if ur camping
xzax1337 (2:59:50 PM): hes camping
xzax1337 (2:59:56 PM): and forcing u to approach
xzax1337 (3:00:13 PM): and ur both "top/smart" players
xzax1337 (3:00:17 PM): u will hit him
Boutdabux23 (3:00:27 PM): and he will hit u...
xzax1337 (3:00:31 PM): u will find away
xzax1337 (3:00:32 PM): ok
xzax1337 (3:00:35 PM): hes dair camping
xzax1337 (3:00:40 PM): lets say that
xzax1337 (3:00:51 PM): u will find out a way to stop him from doing it
Boutdabux23 (3:00:58 PM): see what ur saying?
Boutdabux23 (3:01:02 PM): ur not giving me anything but
Boutdabux23 (3:01:04 PM): u will find away
Boutdabux23 (3:01:16 PM): that completely contradicts the strat
Boutdabux23 (3:01:17 PM): as effective
xzax1337 (3:01:18 PM): i dont know everything about marth
xzax1337 (3:11:08 PM): ill admit idk marth
xzax1337 (3:02:27 PM): or anything about him
xzax1337 (3:11:08 PM): at all

LOL, calling other people stupid for talking about a matchup being bad when you don't know **** about one of the characters in the matchup. MK ***** Marth mercilessly. Go be 12 somewhere else.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Quick question... what if the pro-ban side almost reaches 66%? Will this conflict be forgot forever?

God no. This conflict will prolly go on til the game dies.

Then we'll all play Melee. =D

 

[BlueTerrorist]

People need to learn the match. Most of his attacks are multi-hitting, can't you SDI the attacks like other multi-hitting attacks? Has anyone tried this? I'm also gonna check out Jiggs for a sec.

 

[Steel]

Lol, Calling Other People Stupid For Talking About A Matchup Being Bad When You Don't Know **** About One Of The Characters In The Matchup. Mk ***** Marth Mercilessly. Go Be 12 Somewhere Else.

LMAO

"HE'LL JUST FIND A WAY TO HIT YOU **** l DUNNO"

 

[Eazy23]

I think Captain Falcon could be a MK counter, MK is just easier to play at a high level but Falcon could catch up.

If you intelligently discuss mk vs snake, you come to certain conclusions. You then however, find that how the match goes when to top players are doing the match is much diff than it goes on average. This is because the mk side has an easier time executing its advantages than the snake on the lower levels, however it doesn't change what the snake side can do. How is this theory difficult for you to understand?

 

[Red Arremer]

pro ban - *states argument*
anti ban - "nu uh"

The both essays have been written independently from each other, and only the counter points are actually adressing the points of the other side.

I want to state that both sides were actually given a limit of size for each argument, and that the Pro-Ban side has been stepping over these limits, while the Anti-Ban side was keeping inside of these borders given by the SBR leadership. Which is the reason why the text of the Pro-Ban side is longer.

Furthermore, after reading both essays throughout and intensively, I have to admit that the Pro-Ban's text is far better when it comes to using rhetorically strong words (such as "alien") and emotional appeal.
The logic, however, is slightly flawed. In my opinion.

 

[Oblivion129]

I voted No
You guys can see that in most of the results, another char is winning. That means that people now know how to play against MK.

So, if someone can do it, the others that at present can't, should attend a better strategy so as to do so. Don't matter if you have to change a character to win. If any character can beat MK, IMO he cannot be banned.

Also, there were Evo South America a week ago here in Brazil, the results were:

1 Kovarish(Olimar)
2 Djudjo(Peach)
3 Leso(King Dedede, Lucas)
4 Chaudgobay(Wolf, Snake, Wario)
5 Affinity(MK)
5 R(MK)
7 Azgner(Snake)
7 Snego(Snake)

OBS.: we had 7 days of tournaments and that were the results of the final bracket.

Marc, if possible, it would be great if u put these results at the first post :D

And another thing, i have created a thread at the brazilian boards
Then, more people can come and vote!


Link --> http://s8.zetaboards.com/1UP_Smash_Board/topic/8100482/1/#new

And.. sorry for bad english

I didn't know there was EVO in South America. What city was it in?

 

[DanGR]

Quick question... what if the pro-ban side almost reaches 66%? Will this conflict be forgot forever?

Think about it this way.

If pro-ban side is right, Meta Knight will be an increasing problem and this debate will come up again. If anti-ban is right, the hype will subside, people won't keep picking up MK or quitting like they have been doing for the past year, and things will balance out instead.

It won't get close to 2/3rds though.

 

[Skadorski]

Oh my gosh this is stupid we made 2069 posts in 2 days.
People just need to learn how to play against him. We even have a list of what moves can counter some of his. If your going to complain about him, just pick him. /thread

Also I have made a chart for this: http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss296/sunybuny1118/MKpolluserslol.jpg

 

[OFY]

Think about it this way.

If pro-ban side is right, Meta Knight will be an increasing problem and this debate will come up again. If anti-ban is right, the hype will subside, people won't keep picking up MK or quitting like they have been doing for the past year, and things will balance out instead.

It won't get close to 2/3rds though.

This debate has come up 4 times already.

so according to your logic pro-ban is right

 

[M-WUZ-H3R3]

You forgot maybe as an option

 

[DanGR]

This debate has come up 4 times already.

so according to your logic pro-ban is right

What do yah know?

 

[istudying]

Oh my gosh this is stupid we made 2069 posts in 2 days.
People just need to learn how to play against him. We even have a list of what moves can counter some of his. If your going to complain about him, just pick him. /thread

Also I have made a chart for this: http://i585.photobucket.com/albums/ss296/sunybuny1118/MKpolluserslol.jpg

Are you saying this because you main MK?

 

[etecoon]

If you intelligently discuss mk vs snake, you come to certain conclusions. You then however, find that how the match goes when to top players are doing the match is much diff than it goes on average. This is because the mk side has an easier time executing its advantages than the snake on the lower levels, however it doesn't change what the snake side can do. How is this theory difficult for you to understand?

So what you're saying is that not only does Meta Knight have a theoretical advantage on Snake, but that he also executes this game plan with much greater ease? Because it's 55:45 MK based on theory craft too, it gets worse when you start bringing the human element in.

 

[Hyro]

The both essays have been written independently from each other, and only the counter points are actually adressing the points of the other side.

I want to state that both sides were actually given a limit of size for each argument, and that the Pro-Ban side has been stepping over these limits, while the Anti-Ban side was keeping inside of these borders given by the SBR leadership. Which is the reason why the text of the Pro-Ban side is longer.

Furthermore, after reading both essays throughout and intensively, I have to admit that the Pro-Ban's text is far better when it comes to using rhetorically strong words (such as "alien") and emotional appeal.
The logic, however, is slightly flawed. In my opinion.

I didn't know there were caps but even so, the anti ban starts off with "MK is not broken" and "MK does not dominate the metagame"...which are counterpoints not arguments. I didn't see any "this is why he shouldn't be banned".

 

[Skadorski]

Are you saying this because you main MK?

I still don't have a main yet and I have been playing this game for 600 hours.
I just think this is stupid. He's a good character deal with it.
And that animation was awesome.

 

[Johnny Citrus]

pro ban has been in a constant lead at 53% in this poll >.>

 

[bobson]

I didn't know there were caps but even so, the anti ban starts off with "MK is not broken" and "MK does not dominate the metagame"...which are counterpoints not arguments. I didn't see any "this is why he shouldn't be banned".

That is why he shouldn't be banned. That's how it goes when presenting an argument to ban something: one side says why it should change, and the other side says why the status quo is fine.

 

[Eazy23]

Ophelia who is that in your sig?

 

[Red Arremer]

I didn't know there were caps but even so, the anti ban starts off with "MK is not broken" and "MK does not dominate the metagame"...which are counterpoints not arguments. I didn't see any "this is why he shouldn't be banned".

Well, of course the group that doesn't want to change something clearly doesn't have to proof anything?
They actually have only to disprove the arguments of the group that wants to change something.

Ninja'd by bobson. :V