• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

Should Meta Knight be banned from competitive Brawl?


  • Total voters
    3,010
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

POKE40

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Messages
1,083
Location
♥ My post count is my age. Deal with it.
isnt banning MK just gonna put snake on top again anyway, and then whichever character is his counterpick?

I have never picked up a character because of how good he was. I pick a character when a game comes out and i play him, in SF it was always Vega. And when sf4 came around i realized he was severely gimped ( Flying barcelona very unsafe, claws fall off and mask, most moves unsafe, and worst of all a very unsafe pressure game ) instead of giving up me and a few others in the sf community worked our ***** off to advance his game. Vega is still considered one of the worst in SF4 but we found alot of things to keep him competitive. when evo came we rocked vega even though the community dubbed him as " crap ".

what im trying to say is if the community would stop complaining about MK, rule sets, and what to ban, maybe a couple more characters would be competitive.
Snake being top is hypothetical but it is likely assuming MK will be banned.

I really hope this is not the final decision for MK, despite The title saying it is the "final" vote.
Brawl still has a long way to go until the next smash.

/agree
 

Sosuke

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
25,073
Switch FC
8132-9932-4710
Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.
 

Masmasher@

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,408
Location
Cleveland, Ohio! my homeplace but for now living i
a =/= an

Pay attention rather then trying to defend yourself and Googling the difference.
And I wasn't "checking" for anything, it was a mistake I noticed because it's a mistake a lot of people make.

And I just called you out on it because you're calling someone else and idiot when you really shouldn't be throwing words like that out there in the first place.

really, then you typo lol calling me out on something so trivial but alas i will correct next time.
Honestly you know what i mean when you read it. checking for stuff like that over the internet is IMO frivilous. and really unwarrented. It should be obvious i'm calling him an idiot and if you dont understand the justification then dont worry about it. Cause it was between me and him. Really sizing up that small mistake with his is just begging for a retort. Call out both sides if you got something to say. Dont go about in a roundabout way with a grammar mistake.
 

Melomaniacal

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
2,849
Location
Tristate area
Snake being top is hypothetical but it is likely assuming MK will be banned.

I really hope this is not the final decision for MK, despite The title saying it is the "final" vote.
Brawl still has a long way to go until the next smash.

/agree
I think by "final," this means "the last one for a long time."
The debate will resurface, it's just a matter of time.
 

Zajice

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
11,167
Location
Equestria
I'm going to have to stop joking around for a moment to say that I agree that the pro-ban's side was definitely written better, in my opinion.



And with that being said, I go back to the anti-srs:



A friend of mine says this thread gives off the same vibe as a funeral. I think I agree. >_>
 

Fatmanonice

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jul 27, 2006
Messages
18,432
Location
Somewhere... overthinking something
NNID
Fatmanonice
Yeah, and another reason it's hard to figure these matchups for him out is because no one is brave enough to run through a huge tourney without using their actual main. I believe some info comprised from tourneys, regarding character usage and placing is false, because not enough players stick to their mains.
Holy Jesus, that is what we've been saying all along! Metaknight is the way that he is now because he became a bandwagon character after he passed Snake about a year and two months ago instead of people trying to develop their own characters. The community created this problem by finding excuses to dance around the competitive standard of "get better' and were too enticed by a character with so many strengths because, as others have said, the way Brawl works doesn't really allow you to severally punish your opponents mistakes except for a few things (mainly things like infinites and jab locks) Now we have one freakishly overdeveloped character, 3-4 characters who's metagames are even developing anymore, and the rest of the cast getting worse or falling by the wayside.

Yeah, if the community's mentality had been right from the start, this wouldn't even be problem now but, unfortnately, it is.
 

MarKO X

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Brooklyn
NNID
legendnumberM
3DS FC
2595-2072-2390
Switch FC
531664639998
LoL @ this typo madness.

Also, something that has baffled me for awhile, why do a decent number of people who don't support Metaknight being banned support King Dedede's infinite on Mario, Bowser, Samus, DK, and Luigi getting banned? You can counterpick against that. What confuses me even more is how they say the 10 people who can infinite Wario are perfectly fine as well as the Ice Climbers infinites. "Don't get grabbed." "A good Wario never gets grabbed." "Get better." The last one is overwelmingly ironic because this is never said to Donkey Kong players in regard to King Dedede's infinite. It's odd really... The Anti-ban Metaknight side accuses the Pro-ban side of babying the community when many of them do the same for one character who would probably be viable if it weren't for the infinite. Now, this is where it starts to become so confusing that's it's nearly impossible to think about it without saying "Wait... what?" outloud when reading the statement. On the Anti-ban side, a decision to make only one more character viable is more popular than a decision that would make more than half of the high tier reasonably viable... Did you fall out of your chair reading that? I just about did and is one of the reasons why the Brawl community baffles me at times.
!!!!!
inb4"unfitforcompetition"

lmao :psycho: , you gotta be kidding right. projectiles are the weakest they have ever been in SF4, in SF2 this could almost be an argument because of fireball traps but still. If your gonna post on here do yourself a favor and dont rag on the SF community, because it seems pretty ridiculous. every character has a way around sagats fireballs, its all about timing or having ex meter. I dont wanna sound rude here but if thats your idea of what SF is about, then you have clearly never played it at any level other then laughing while you and your kid brother throw hadokens at each other.

to stay on track with this debate though: keep MK so he continues to polarize everyone.
LoL.
It's not about connecting the tiger shots.
It's about using them to help out your zoning game by seeing how the opponent reacts to them, but whatever.
 

Tien2500

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Messages
1,432
Location
NY
isnt banning MK just gonna put snake on top again anyway, and then whichever character is his counterpick?

I have never picked up a character because of how good he was. I pick a character when a game comes out and i play him, in SF it was always Vega. And when sf4 came around i realized he was severely gimped ( Flying barcelona very unsafe, claws fall off and mask, most moves unsafe, and worst of all a very unsafe pressure game ) instead of giving up me and a few others in the sf community worked our ***** off to advance his game. Vega is still considered one of the worst in SF4 but we found alot of things to keep him competitive. when evo came we rocked vega even though the community dubbed him as " crap ".

what im trying to say is if the community would stop complaining about MK, rule sets, and what to ban, maybe a couple more characters would be competitive.
Snake won't be as dominant as MK because he has bad matchups and bad stages. He'll be the best but not by as much. And Vega is about as viable as Mario.
 

MarKO X

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Brooklyn
NNID
legendnumberM
3DS FC
2595-2072-2390
Switch FC
531664639998
In the history of SF, when was flying barcelona a safe move?

Don't get me wrong, my wall jump shenanigans as a Vega main in ST are hilarious, but... safe?
 

Abbra Cadav3r

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
31
LoL @ this typo madness.



!!!!!
inb4"unfitforcompetition"



LoL.
It's not about connecting the tiger shots.
It's about using them to help out your zoning game by seeing how the opponent reacts to them, but whatever.
a good player will just vary what he does, meaning your sitting their whipping out tiger shots while hes dancing around waiting for an advantageous range to jump in from while you spam qcf lk. also try being sagat against a good dhalsim and spamming tiger shots ( hint: you'll get ***** )
 

Sosuke

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
25,073
Switch FC
8132-9932-4710
really, then you typo lol calling me out on something so trivial but alas i will correct next time.
Honestly you know what i mean when you read it. checking for stuff like that over the internet is IMO frivilous. and really unwarrented. It should be obvious i'm calling him an idiot and if you dont understand the justification then dont worry about it. Cause it was between me and him. Really sizing up that small mistake with his is just begging for a retort. Call out both sides if you got something to say. Dont go about in a roundabout way with a grammar mistake.
You're posts have so many grammatical errors (especially this one). It wasn't a typo. Mine was. Even if yours was, it doesn't matter. The rest of your posts make up for it.
I'm not calling you out on it for the sake of calling you out on it. If I were, I'd be doing it now.
I'm calling you out on it so you don't go around calling someone else an idiot for stupid reasons.
While I'm not calling you an idiot right now, I'm making it pretty obvious that I think you're mistaken.
You have NO justification to call him an idiot right now. And he has no justification to call you an idiot. THIS IS WHAT I WAS MAKING CLEAR. I'm pretty sure everyone else understood that.

Call out both sides if you got something to say.
Stop pissing each other off over a video game.
There is a reason I didn't quote you on it.
Using an example of one of your posts means just that. It's an EXAMPLE of why BOTH of you should stop.



Now. Stop.
 

Ax00x0

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
98
Originally Posted by Fatmanonice
Also, something that has baffled me for awhile, why do a decent number of people who don't support Metaknight being banned support King Dedede's infinite on Mario, Bowser, Samus, DK, and Luigi getting banned? You can counterpick against that. What confuses me even more is how they say the 10 people who can infinite Wario are perfectly fine as well as the Ice Climbers infinites. "Don't get grabbed." "A good Wario never gets grabbed." "Get better." The last one is overwelmingly ironic because this is never said to Donkey Kong players in regard to King Dedede's infinite. It's odd really... The Anti-ban Metaknight side accuses the Pro-ban side of babying the community when many of them do the same for one character who would probably be viable if it weren't for the infinite. Now, this is where it starts to become so confusing that's it's nearly impossible to think about it without saying "Wait... what?" outloud when reading the statement. On the Anti-ban side, a decision to make only one more character viable is more popular than a decision that would make more than half of the high tier reasonably viable... Did you fall out of your chair reading that? I just about did and is one of the reasons why the Brawl community baffles me at times.
Exactly. The controdictions and double standards and overall lunacy just makes no sense.

I'm going to have to stop joking around for a moment to say that I agree that the pro-ban's side was definitely written better, in my opinion.
Which is why it's so sad when you hear people saying "It's doesn't matter, I'm still voting no." It's like saying "I'm impervious to logic and comon sense, but I somehow am allowed to vote."
 

Abbra Cadav3r

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
31
In the history of SF, when was flying barcelona a safe move?

Don't get me wrong, my wall jump shenanigans as a Vega main in ST are hilarious, but... safe?
in sf2t, and recently hd remix, wall jumps were safe as hell compared to sf4 and were alot like sim drill pressure. in sf4 im pretty positive that vega's wall dive has something ******** like 37 recovery frames.
 

MarKO X

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Brooklyn
NNID
legendnumberM
3DS FC
2595-2072-2390
Switch FC
531664639998
a good player will just vary what he does, meaning your sitting their whipping out tiger shots while hes dancing around waiting for an advantageous range to jump in from while you spam qcf lk. also try being sagat against a good dhalsim and spamming tiger shots ( hint: you'll get ***** )
lol
in response to the opponent waiting for the advantageous range to jump in... because sagat has no range, at all, whatsoever. clearly said the tiger shots are to help the zoning. Smart sagats zone. Dumb sagats spam tiger shots.

in response to dhalsim... obviously. lol :)
 

MarKO X

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Brooklyn
NNID
legendnumberM
3DS FC
2595-2072-2390
Switch FC
531664639998
in sf2t, and recently hd remix, wall jumps were safe as hell compared to sf4 and were alot like sim drill pressure. in sf4 im pretty positive that vega's wall dive has something ******** like 37 recovery frames.
oh, you must be talking about the landing.
cause once you're in the air, you are wide open to punches, kicks, and if you're doing them on the opponent's wake up, dragon punches, tiger uppercuts, chun's upkicks, flash kicks, etc.

37 recovery frames? wow, get *****.
 

Nintendevil

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 27, 2007
Messages
910
Location
I'm still trying to figure that out...
yeah, And Another Reason It's Hard To Figure These Matchups For Him Out Is Because No One Is Brave Enough To Run Through A Huge Tourney Without Using Their Actual Main. I Believe Some Info Comprised From Tourneys, Regarding Character Usage And Placing Is False, Because Not Enough Players Stick To Their Mains.
Burn The Falses!!!!!!!
 

Masmasher@

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,408
Location
Cleveland, Ohio! my homeplace but for now living i
You're posts have so many grammatical errors (especially this one). It wasn't a typo. Mine was. Even if yours was, it doesn't matter. The rest of your posts make up for it.
I'm not calling you out on it for the sake of calling you out on it. If I were, I'd be doing it now.
I'm calling you out on it so you don't go around calling someone else an idiot for stupid reasons.
While I'm not calling you an idiot right now, I'm making it pretty obvious that I think you're mistaken.
You have NO justification to call him an idiot right now. And he has no justification to call you an idiot. THIS IS WHAT I WAS MAKING CLEAR. I'm pretty sure everyone else understood that.
So if you think I should lay off, the same can be applied to you.



There is a reason I didn't quote you on it.
Using an example of one of your posts means just that. It's an EXAMPLE of why BOTH of you should stop.





Now. Stop.

And you know what i would be doing about thesre grammar errors.
Not caring like i have been every since i have been typing on this forum.
It. Is. trivial . while i have never bothered to look up the different denotaions of a and an i am well aware of my self on a reasonable level thank you very much. There are other grammar mistakes on this thread way before me. You dont have to play mediatior cause the situation resolved it self. I was calling yours a typo by the way. I thought it would have been obvious when i bolded it. I also said on my post Directed to you that yours was a typo. Comprehend much. You dont need to 1 up somebody in a situation if you are trying to mediate. It wasnt your business.
Calling me out on grammar.... and have one of YOUR sentences start with and. Cmon man.
You see how trivial it is.

By the way I am justified in saying it. I stand by it. Otherwise i have no problem. If you cant already tell, Im hard headed. I'm smelling the daisies otherwise.. no problems man..
 

Exceladon City

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Messages
6,037
Location
The Lonesome Crowded Midwest
oh, you must be talking about the landing.
cause once you're in the air, you are wide open to punches, kicks, and if you're doing them on the opponent's wake up, dragon punches, tiger uppercuts, chun's upkicks, flash kicks, etc.

37 recovery frames? wow, get *****.

Hell Flying Barcelona wasn't even safe in SF2. A LP Shoryu stopped that **** right in it's tracks.
 

Tien2500

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Messages
1,432
Location
NY
people are too general in their post.
who gives snake trouble besides metaknight?
First off he has trouble on any stage where stage control is hard. Norfair/Brinstar if legal, RC, Japes.

Dedede,ZSS, Pika, and Falco have slight edges according to Snake's matchup threads (ZSS is debated and I don't know how accurate/current these are). They also have Olimar and Rob Listed but I'm pretty sure thats not current, esp. ROB. Snake also has a lot more even matches than MK who (debatably) has none.
 

Sosuke

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Aug 3, 2007
Messages
25,073
Switch FC
8132-9932-4710
You clearly are missing the point by trying to defend yourself. I really don't care enough to argue with someone who fails to understand their mistake.


Just stop calling people idiots when you really shouldn't be.
Obviously, this goes for everyone.
 

Zajice

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
11,167
Location
Equestria
First off he has trouble on any stage where stage control is hard. Norfair/Brinstar if legal, RC, Japes.
Brinstar is probably one of Snake's best stages.

RC and Japes aren't great, that's for sure. He's okay on Norfair.

Although RC has a pretty low ceiling for up-tilt kills. Japes would be my Snake counterpick.
 

Masmasher@

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,408
Location
Cleveland, Ohio! my homeplace but for now living i
You clearly are missing the point by trying to defend yourself. I really don't care enough to argue with someone who fails to understand their mistake.


Just stop calling people idiots when you really shouldn't be.
Obviously, this goes for everyone.

I told you in my post im hard headed lol. I know i am right. i am not trying to convince anyone else for this situation.
 

Tien2500

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 25, 2002
Messages
1,432
Location
NY
Brinstar is probably one of Snake's best stages.

RC and Japes aren't great, that's for sure. He's okay on Norfair.
I stand corrected about Brinstar. He might be OK on Norfair but there are certainly characters that would have an edge on him on Norfair.
 

Masmasher@

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 9, 2009
Messages
1,408
Location
Cleveland, Ohio! my homeplace but for now living i
Why post if you aren't going to listen to others, and aren't trying to get anyone else to listen?
Listen dude im trying to say that the situation between me and that one dude was none of his business basically. Its done its over. Notice in the post you happily quoted me on i said "that situation" do you know why.... cause it was between me and him. I have no more problems none with anyone else not sakuskebowser or you. Now im begging you. you caught me with my hands up. I'm not trying to start anything else especially a situation derivitive of what happened
 

Shadowblazen

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
25
Location
Seattle, WA
!__!

You clearly are missing the point by trying to defend yourself. I really don't care enough to argue with someone who fails to understand their mistake.


Just stop calling people idiots when you really shouldn't be.
Obviously, this goes for everyone.
Sasukebowser is so amazing. At the end of every sentence he rejects the exclaimation point and substitutes a falcon punch.
 

Abbra Cadav3r

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
31
oh, you must be talking about the landing.
cause once you're in the air, you are wide open to punches, kicks, and if you're doing them on the opponent's wake up, dragon punches, tiger uppercuts, chun's upkicks, flash kicks, etc.

37 recovery frames? wow, get *****.
oki wall dives dont have never been a valid option at least not against the whole cast, in sf4 oki wall dive can mess with rog but only if you are very good at getting an ambiguous cross up out of it and your timing is spot on.

and about sagats zoning game, the point im trying to make is that in sf4 zoning has gotten weaker with FA's. and even very good sagats will use "spammed" tiger shots to zone( haunts ). but to win with sagat its much harder then using tiger shot, sagat is definitely a great character but look at the 09 evo tourney, not one sagat main in the top 8.

I really think sf4 is going to go the way of 3s with fast footsies and quick 50/50 setups being what dominates, and sagat doesnt have great footsies and he does have some 50/50 setups but they are by no means quick.

in 3s yun and yang dominated early because of their ability to destroy the zoning game and the infinite, but then the game shifted to chun and ken because of their perfect footsie games and quick 50/50's.

Sagat is big and slow and a huge hitbox, he has mediocore footsies and his overhead doesnt lead into anything, eventually the metagame will evolve past him ( i think it already has ).
 

MarKO X

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
2,542
Location
Brooklyn
NNID
legendnumberM
3DS FC
2595-2072-2390
Switch FC
531664639998
oki wall dives dont have never been a valid option at least not against the whole cast, in sf4 oki wall dive can mess with rog but only if you are very good at getting an ambiguous cross up out of it and your timing is spot on.

and about sagats zoning game, the point im trying to make is that in sf4 zoning has gotten weaker with FA's. and even very good sagats will use "spammed" tiger shots to zone( haunts ). but to win with sagat its much harder then using tiger shot, sagat is definitely a great character but look at the 09 evo tourney, not one sagat main in the top 8.

I really think sf4 is going to go the way of 3s with fast footsies and quick 50/50 setups being what dominates, and sagat doesnt have great footsies and he does have some 50/50 setups but they are by no means quick.

in 3s yun and yang dominated early because of their ability to destroy the zoning game and the infinite, but then the game shifted to chun and ken because of their perfect footsie games and quick 50/50's.

Sagat is big and slow and a huge hitbox, he has mediocore footsies and his overhead doesnt lead into anything, eventually the metagame will evolve past him ( i think it already has ).
The metagame for Sagat in US n Japan is vastly different. I'm still not sure how no Sagat's hit the top 8, but here are some interesting links:
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/
http://known2own.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/new-power-player-list-for-june/

Both show Sagat as the best.

Sagat has always been big and not too fast, but it hasn't stopped him from being beast in SF2T (I know nothing of HDR though...) and CvS2, nor has it kept him from being too unviable in other games he makes an appearance in.
 

urdailywater

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
5,563
I use 40 posts per page so I don't have to go through a ******** amount like that.

Feels good man.
I use 20 so I can at least be on or close to the same page as everyone else. But 15 was gay. 5 more is pretty cool.

Sasukebowser is so amazing. At the end of every sentence he rejects the exclaimation point and substitutes a falcon punch.

looooooooooooooooool

ok ur cool
 

Abbra Cadav3r

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 16, 2009
Messages
31
The metagame for Sagat in US n Japan is vastly different. I'm still not sure how no Sagat's hit the top 8, but here are some interesting links:
http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/
http://known2own.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/new-power-player-list-for-june/

Both show Sagat as the best.

Sagat has always been big and not too fast, but it hasn't stopped him from being beast in SF2T (I know nothing of HDR though...) and CvS2, nor has it kept him from being too unviable in other games he makes an appearance in.
sf2t is such a zoning based game though, and sagat is the best at it. with fireball traps being the dominant thing and the sheer damage you can take from one mistake make zoning the bees knees.

and japans metagame is completely based around arcade play, where as tourneys in the u.s. are played on consoles with console characters allowed. And the metagame in the u.s. varies from place to place, like north california having alot of great balrogs.

and in hd remix sagat is still a beast, if triple tiger knee combos dont make you a beast i dont know what will. Vega is a force in remix though also, he got cancelable wall dives which allow meaner shenanigans and hes prettier.
 

Browny

Smash Hater
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
10,416
Location
Video Games
why do people care about SF.

last time i checked this thread was 'fourth and final community vote about metaknight', not 'defining broken characters across vastly different types of fighting games'
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom