Fourth and final community vote about Meta Knight.

[mikeHAZE]

And your opinion is all knowing? What makes you the ultimate deciding factor?

I also lost to a toon link in winners. How can i argue metaknight is broken when i can't even beat that?

 

[Fatmanonice]

Most people are creating an account to vote because they were either just spectators of smashboards until now, came from allisbrawl.com, or decided to join recently. And yes all of them have a right to vote.

That's... that's not true... THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE! NOBODY outside of Smash Boards plays Brawl! You sir deserve to be horsewhipped for spreading such lies!

 

[JUDGE]

I'm sorry if I don't think people who aren't a part of this competitive community should vote on something that affects the actual competitive community. A lot of these people are just members of smashboards, and that's it.



No one is saying the same issue doesn't exist on the anti-ban side. It does.

in fact you are right but please read what skyler said


Originally Posted by SkylerOcon
It would be ridiculous for the SBR to not automatically go with whatever the final poll results end up as. As uninformed as some voters may be, the people voting here are the typical tourney goer, and they should not be overridden by a group of 100-or-so players that have their own opinions (and possibly bias). As much as some SBR members like to deny it, the SBR basically dictates the community - players will always go to an SBR rules tourney rather than a non-SBR tourney.

If the SBR ignores the common smasher in this final poll, then the wrong people have been trusted with SBR membership. This poll is the final poll, and the last chance to see the community's opinion. It doesn't matter what the top players think, in this case - it matters what the average player thinks. The player you're most likely to see at a tournament. If all of them get frustrated and leave, there will be no more Brawl competitive scene anymore.

 

[Melomaniacal]

in fact you are right but please read what skyler said

I have read it, and even responded to (part of) it.

I really, really, really don't want to draw a comparison to eugenics...but **** it's just so tempting.

Okay... so I suppose you're ending that discussion, then?

 

[MorphedChaos]

in the beginning i was for banning meta knight, thought he would be way to strong : (
but i studyied him A LOT cuz he is one of marios most hardest match up.......
.....and it worked
last week i won a biiig tourney with 128 people and in the grandfinals i had to face a ****ing good mk.........i was really scared when i heard that but i still won against this guy

i know mk is way to strong, i know he has a perfect recovery, i know his attacks are as fast as lightning, i know about his machtornado(!), his shuttleloop(!) and his spammable dsmash(that comes out at frame 5!!!!!!!)

but if people spend enough time to study mk metagame and hit him at his weekness points,
then i'm sure that a good player can defeat a good mk

it isn't like beating a mk is impossible
i wanna remind eveyone who seem to forgot this : smash bros is a game that based on mindgames

mindgames!!! there is nothing a mk can do when he get mindgamed, so even a ganon can defeat a mk(even if it's hard)


please do not ban mk!! i know we can kick their *****!!!!
like i did in the tourney muhahahahahaha^^ *act up^^*
__________________

I dunno mate, that MK was probably the standard MK, one who doesn't really study. If he had studied the matchup vs Mario and MK, it would've been a different outcome. Basing anti-ban on that really doesn't work. If you wanna annihilate them, why not do it better by banning them and stomping the MK plague to oblivion, instead of letting it grow?

I'm waiting for the Holocaust to happen, Right now I think we're at the point where Germany just invaded Poland.

I stopped reading right here. IDC is banned, and regular cape sucks.

Its called EDC mate. That hasn't been banned, and in fact its been used decently.

 

[Kamikaze*]

EDC? wut be dat

 

[JUDGE]

I dunno mate, that MK was probably the standard MK, one who doesn't really study. If he had studied the matchup vs Mario and MK, it would've been a different outcome. Basing anti-ban on that really doesn't work. If you wanna annihilate them, why not do it better by banning them and stomping the MK plague to oblivion, instead of letting it grow?

I'm waiting for the Holocaust to happen, Right now I think we're at the point where Germany just invaded Poland.



Its called EDC mate. That hasn't been banned, and in fact its been used decently.

yeah i know...i also had the feeling as if he doesn't have much experience fighting a good mario cuz he is a low tier.......
but still................guys........you wanna BAN A CHARACTER
a whole character that exists......this is pretty....hard.......just think over it twice please....


just want to say i am NOT a scrub
i won manylocal tourney and last week a german wide
i HAD my troubles with mk's
i lost against many of them...but i never got ***** from them


it isn't impossible to beat a mk

 

[Esopus]

I just clicked 10 random named in the poll results, and got 7 people who joined smashboards within the last 3 months, and have under 30 posts. I highly doubt these people have ever been to a legitimate tournament, and I highly doubt a lot of the people voting have.

09 join date, under 30 posts... I resemble that remark!

I've been smashin' since the N64 version and have been to a couple tourneys though... and metaknight is the most broken character in any smash game.

 

[Sosuke]

I also lost to a toon link in winners. How can i argue metaknight is broken when i can't even beat that?

Not to be a **** about it, but weren't you not playing your best that match for reasons outside of the game?
That's what I've been hearing. =/
But again, idk. Just asking.

 

[Tin Man]

That's... that's not true... THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE! NOBODY outside of Smash Boards plays Brawl! You sir deserve to be horsewhipped for spreading such lies!

I aint lying bro check it out

http://allisbrawl.com/

 

[Thunderbolt333]

Lol take a chill pills guys don't bust a blood vessel over a game remember everyone has feelings don't let things get personal.

 

[Melomaniacal]

09 join date, under 30 posts... I resemble that remark!

I've been smashin' since the N64 version and have been to a couple tourneys though... and metaknight is the most broken character in any smash game.

The fact that you've been playing since 64 means nothing. Most of my friends have been playing since 64, and most of them think Ganon is the best character in Brawl because "OMG HES SO STRONG!"

School tournaments and a tournament you had at your friend's birthday party don't count.

 

[fkacyan]

09 join date, under 30 posts... I resemble that remark!

I've been smashin' since the N64 version and have been to a couple tourneys though... and metaknight is the most broken character in any smash game.

Did you miss Pikachu, or something?

 

[MorphedChaos]

yeah i know...i also had the feeling as if he doesn't have much experience fighting a good mario cuz he is a low tier.......
but still................guys........you wanna BAN A CHARACTER
a whole character that exists......this is pretty....hard.......just think over it twice please....


just want to say i am NOT a scrub
i won manylocal tourney and last week a german wide
i HAD my troubles with mk's
i lost against many of them...but i never got ***** from them


it isn't impossible to beat a mk

It isn't impossible, but it is always an uphill battle with current records. As for banning an entire character? Thats not unheard of and is pretty easy when you have such a large cast. Look at Pokemon, they have banned many many pokemon. Thats many 'characters' by your standards, and it works fine and even makes the game very fun.

(I'm not yelling at ya by the way.)

 

[JUDGE]

Lol take a chill pills guys don't bust a blood vessel over a game remember everyone has feelings don't let things get personal.

this is a quiet important thing bro......it will decide how your next tourney will look like.......

 

[fkacyan]

It isn't impossible, but it is always an uphill battle with current records. As for banning an entire character? Thats not unheard of and is pretty easy when you have such a large cast. Look at Pokemon, they have banned many many pokemon. Thats many 'characters' by your standards, and it works fine and even makes the game very fun.

(I'm not yelling at ya by the way.)

A fair amount of what's been banned in Pokemon is banned because it's fairly obvious to see it breaks the metagame.

If you included half the ubers that's all you would ever see; and indeed, a team of 6 Mewtwos would probably be pretty disgusting.

ETA: Has to do with stat weights and move pools. Many ubers have huge move pools and amazing stats.

 

[JUDGE]

It isn't impossible, but it is always an uphill battle with current records. As for banning an entire character? Thats not unheard of and is pretty easy when you have such a large cast. Look at Pokemon, they have banned many many pokemon. Thats many 'characters' by your standards, and it works fine and even makes the game very fun.

(I'm not yelling at ya by the way.)

hahaha^^ yeah i don't feel like you yelling at me don't worry^^
and yeah you are right with this pokemon thing.....hmmmm...........this is difficult...........but yeah.....maybe he should be banned..............whaaa what am i talking about....????? uhg i am so confused nao....

 

[momochuu]

Somebody needs to ban Stealth Rock before it's too late.

 

[thrillagorilla]

Its called EDC mate. That hasn't been banned, and in fact its been used decently.

Its REALLY punishable if it misses though.

By the way, most of your argument consisted of an analysis of Metaknight as a character. It did in no way shape or form provide ban criteria or explain how Metaknight should be banned under currently given criteria. I applaud you for making your post, but it doesn't inform anyone here who knows about the character already. If they don't already know they shouldn't be here anyways, no offense.

As to your assertions about over-centralization, please read AA's post. It paints a much different picture.

Finally, the burden of proof lies with pro-ban, so any attempts to pick apart anti-ban arguments are null to begin with. We are not making arguments, we are making rebuttals. I'm sorry that I'm not responding to your post in detail, but I am extremely tired and going to bed. I'll do it tomorrow morning if you want me to, just leave me a shout out with a link to the post.

 

[Coffee™]

A fair amount of what's been banned in Pokemon is banned because it's fairly obvious to see it breaks the metagame.

This is not true at all.

 

[Thunderbolt333]

this is a quiet important thing bro......it will decide how your next tourney will look like.......

yeh its important I just don't like the fact smashboards is so splite on the issue that it'll turn into a civil war.I agree that we the competitive players are worried about MK being banned or not but we shouldn't be at each others throats about this issue.remember its still a game either way competitive or not.

 

[MorphedChaos]

Its REALLY punishable if it misses though.

By the way, most of your argument consisted of an analysis of Metaknight as a character. It did in no way shape or form provide ban criteria or explain how Metaknight should be banned under currently given criteria. I applaud you for making your post, but it doesn't inform anyone here who knows about the character already. If they don't already know they shouldn't be here anyways, no offense.

As to your assertions about over-centralization, please read AA's post. It paints a much different picture.

Finally, the burden of proof lies with pro-ban, so any attempts to pick apart anti-ban arguments are null to begin with. We are not making arguments, we are making rebuttals. I'm sorry that I'm not responding to your post in detail, but I am extremely tired and going to bed. I'll do it tomorrow morning if you want me to, just leave me a shout out with a link to the post.

Maybe when your not so tired we can debate about it. It's alright mate, I was more saying what I thought then anything I suppose. If you wanna pick it apart and we talk about it, thats cool. As for the ban criteria... Hm, Maybe I'll make a post saying exaclty how...

 

[Fatmanonice]

EDC? wut be dat

That's what I want to know too. Several people have mentioned it but no one has really explained what it is.

@ Morphedchaos:

Comparing keeping Metaknight around to letting the Holocaust occur is... just in bad taste... I should know, I was joking about beating up Mother Teresa's corpse the other night.

 

[fkacyan]

This is not true at all.

Yes, it's not totally obvious that the ubers would centralize play around ubers! Man, nobody could see it coming.

I'm not referring to a lot of the more specific rules and the tiers past that; I happen to disagree with a lot of it. That being said, anybody who can't see how stupid Pokemon like Mewtwo, Dexoys, Arceus, etc are right off the bat are either idiotic or new to the community.

EDIT: 1000 posts before this one... Sigh.

 

[JUDGE]

yeh its important I just don't like the fact smashboards is so splite on the issue that it'll turn into a civil war.I agree that we the competitive players are worried about MK being banned or not but we shouldn't be at each others throats about this issue.remember its still a game either way competitive or not.

*touché*

 

[Thunderbolt333]

As for pokemon nothing is banned.Ubers is a tier just like OU and UU is a tier it goes up to uber tier if its too strong for OU metagame (the most popular metagame).That said you can't compair that with banning MK since your actually banning this guy from all of our competitive metagame instead of moving him up a tier.

 

[fkacyan]

As for pokemon nothing is banned.Ubers is a tier just like OU and UU is a tier it goes up to uber tier if its too strong for OU metagame (the most popular metagame).That said you can't compair that with banning MK since your actually banning this guy from all of our competitive metagame instead of moving him up a tier.

Eh, uber tier essentially constitutes a ban because, as you said, most play is in the OU tier. And there's also stuff like the Sleep clause, etc., as far as banning is concerned.

 

[MorphedChaos]

The EDC, from what I get it to be. Is basically the IDC, but you do it for only a second or two instead of for a long time, and I think you have to start in mid-air.

As for pokemon nothing is banned.Ubers is a tier just like OU and UU is a tier it goes up to uber tier if its too strong for OU metagame (the most popular metagame).That said you can't compair that with banning MK since your actually banning this guy from all of our competitive metagame instead of moving him up a tier.

And yes I can compare it. MK is in the Uber's tier. We could have him banned in a tourny or not banned at all depending on the TO. Since most pokemon tournies are OU and below, its kind of the same thing. (More due to the fact that there are Uber tournies. But I think I should compare MK to Wobbafet more then anything.)

 

[JUDGE]

NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
stop.....talking...............about POKEMON!!!^^

 

[mikeHAZE]

Not to be a **** about it, but weren't you not playing your best that match for reasons outside of the game?
That's what I've been hearing. =/
But again, idk. Just asking.

holy ****, told you hugs, when you're pro people john for you.

fu k your1969 mlg bs

 

[Thunderbolt333]

Eh, uber tier essentially constitutes a ban because, as you said, most play is in the OU tier. And there's also stuff like the Sleep clause, etc., as far as banning is concerned.

True that thio lol. I kinda know how it feels to have a character banned. Kliff is banned from guilty gear for the sole reason he's not in the arcade version.At least the smash community has a reasonable argument to ban MK or not lmao.

 

[JUDGE]

but doesn't look like mk will be banned Imao...............
the pro votes needs 2/3 right??

 

[Thunderbolt333]

yep they need 2/3 votes for him to be banned.

 

[Mit]

Wow, it's incredible how split the community is over the subject. I haven't even voted yet because I don't really want to take sides and I understand both sides of the argument. But it mainly comes down to:

I want Meta Knight to be banned so more characters lower on the tier list can have a shot, and we can see a dramatic change in the Smash community involving much more variety in characters you see in tournaments.

I don't want Meta Knight to be banned because an incredible amount of people will be upset as a result, especially every single person who plays Meta Knight because they like him as a character, and those who have been playing Meta Knight since the game came out. As well as everyone who feels very strongly against banning him. Such a large amount of people will no doubt segregate themselves from the rest of the community, running their own tournaments and disregarding the other half's opinions on matters.

 

[PolMex23]

You people are going about this all wrong. The correct response is: 99% of all good, Melee, doubles teams have an Isai on them.

That was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo funnnyyy !!!!!

Im being for real no sarcasm....Im high as a kite.

But the rest was a long *** run-on sentence.

 

[JUDGE]

Wow, it's incredible how split the community is over the subject. I haven't even voted yet because I don't really want to take sides and I understand both sides of the argument. But it mainly comes down to:

I want Meta Knight to be banned so more characters lower on the tier list can have a shot, and we can see a dramatic change in the Smash community involving much more variety in characters you see in tournaments.

I don't want Meta Knight to be banned because an incredible amount of people will be upset as a result, especially every single person who plays Meta Knight because they like him as a character, and those who have been playing Meta Knight since the game came out. As well as everyone who feels very strongly against banning him. Such a large amount of people will no doubt segregate themselves from the rest of the community, running their own tournaments and disregarding the other half's opinions on matters.

yeah but tose people who just play for fun most likely won't go to any tournaments....

and those who are competitive player will choose another good char^^

 

[deepseadiva]

Not that it means anything, I just found this page interesting.

http://www.smashboards.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=242903

Top 10 Posters
Spadefox: NO
Thiocyanide: NO
Falconv1.0: NO
sasukebowser: YES
MarKO X: YES
Rykoshet: YES
ShadowLink84: NO
King Beef: YES
noradseven: NO
Melomaniacal: NO

I suppose you could attach a theory to that data. For instance, you could theoretically say Anti-Ban has the top three spots due to the fact they have actual non-subjective information to support their claims, and thus can post faster since they lack hesitation.

Regardless, it's fun info.

Even more fun since pro-ban is being destroyed. Good **** guys.

 

[Thunderbolt333]

yeah but tose people who just play for fun most likely won't go to any tournaments....

and those who are competitive player will choose another good char^^

*cough* bowser *cough*.I blame the creators of brawl for making us kill each other.**** you sakuria!!Its his evil plan to kill all competitive players by making them kill each other. this is how he's "closing the gap" .

 

[JUDGE]

*cough* bowser *cough*.I blame the creators of brawl for making us kill each other.**** you sakuria!!Its his evil plan to kill all competitive players by making them kill themselves. this is how he's "closing the gap" .

whhhhoooaaaa you found it out dude^^
so to prevent that all competitve player kills each outher we must.........kill sakurai!!!!!!!!!

 

[hippiedude92]

i still dont see the point of banning mk i mean, even if u do ban him, nj/ny tourneys arent gonna keep him banned they'll just keep him alive for money and activity of the tourney lmao

i mean even if they did ban, its ONLY being recommended by SBR rule set list amrite? that means its optional if they want to use that rule set or not