Florida Neutral/Counterpicks (updated)

[Finch]

There really is no reason to play on poke stadium 2. All the hazards completely interrupt fighting. Poke stadium 1 is basically better in every way (except for edges) so there's no reason to have 2.

 

[Gmoney]

Finch knows what's up about that Gmoney stadium!

translation: stadium2 is pretty stupid (wind, treadmills, etc.); norfair should be banned too just due to the multiple edges (promotes extremely stupid and gay playstyles) as well as the dumb hazards

 

[chckn]

Finch knows what's up about that Gmoney stadium!

translation: stadium2 is pretty stupid (wind, treadmills, etc.); norfair should be banned too just due to the multiple edges (promotes extremely stupid and gay playstyles) as well as the dumb hazards

agreed. Same can be said about japes too though in regard to the multiple edges. If you don't believe me:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=kxgOkRyG3ho

 

[Fenrir VII]

Finch knows what's up about that Gmoney stadium!

translation: stadium2 is pretty stupid (wind, treadmills, etc.); norfair should be banned too just due to the multiple edges (promotes extremely stupid and gay playstyles) as well as the dumb hazards

Treadmills are gay. I'll give you that. although they really should never lead to death...and they can lead to interesting ledge canceling.
The wind, I really don't see a major problem with it. It does change the game, but honestly, tell me the major problem with it and why it "warrants a ban by itself".



The multiple ledges on Norfair don't help THAT much because of the ledge lag time and lack of invincibility. you can auto-sweetspot all of them, sure. and you can go between them enough, but in my experience, it's pretty easy to hit somebody out of doing that.

 

[Gmoney]

I'm just going to throw this out there in theory (I remember people *****ing about it at launch), because I can't test it right now and I'm too lazy to test it... but Gdub's Uair and upB can both send a lot of characters up incredibly high without wind. The wind could possibly make for extremely low percentage and easy kills for Gdub.

 

[chckn]

I'm just going to throw this out there in theory (I remember people *****ing about it at launch), because I can't test it right now and I'm too lazy to test it... but Gdub's Uair and upB can both send a lot of characters up incredibly high without wind. The wind could possibly make for extremely low percentage and easy kills for Gdub.

Yeah, Ive heard about that. Another reason why ps2 is a big gay.

 

[Fenrir VII]

I'm just going to throw this out there in theory (I remember people *****ing about it at launch), because I can't test it right now and I'm too lazy to test it... but Gdub's Uair and upB can both send a lot of characters up incredibly high without wind. The wind could possibly make for extremely low percentage and easy kills for Gdub.

Yeah, I heard rumors about that too, but as much as I can tell, this is fake. I've personally spent about 45 minutes to an hour just try to get this to work.... : /
It was my number one problem with the stage, if true, but from what I can see, it's not...If somebody links a vid, I'd appreciate it, but otherwise...not really

I was in training against a Wario with GW. I was trying to uair kill him. In my 45 mins to an hour, I got it exactly once...and that was kind rigged. I hit him WAY up then upB uair near the top of the screen...and even that could have been avoided. With any sort of lateral movement, I can't see how GW would kill anybody...ever...on that transform. Another thing to note, there are no platforms on that transformation...so you can't even staircase it up. I don't see how this would be legitimate. I didn't have any more luck with the upB wind thing either. : /

I also thought that the wind enhanced up killing moves....it doesn't. I usmashed lucario at 60% with Fox (uncharged...no move decay), and he didn't go any farther than he normally would have.

Really, the wind isn't gay for this reason at all...it just changes the way you play for a few seconds. That was my main reason for changing my stance on the stage.

Also, the transforms other than possibly the conveyor belt don't disrupt play...they make it different. idk, it's just a thought.

 

[dguy6789]

I have concluded that PS2 and Norfair are reasonable for tournament play from all of my testing. Fenrir is right. Before you post on here saying no to the stage, actually play on it with someone for a while.

 

[nevershootme]

I'm just going to throw this out there in theory (I remember people *****ing about it at launch), because I can't test it right now and I'm too lazy to test it... but Gdub's Uair and upB can both send a lot of characters up incredibly high without wind. The wind could possibly make for extremely low percentage and easy kills for Gdub.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=6BMkYqoND-Y

at 00:25 note: uber old footage dating back to march prior to american release

 

[McRib]

Wow MK died without the wind from PS2, but i don't no much about PS2 or Norfairs so I'll try them out more as well.

Remember Halberd randomly picks a character to hate on the whole match= ********

 

[nevershootme]

Wow MK died without the wind from PS2, but i don't no much about PS2 or Norfairs so I'll try them out more as well.

Remember Halberd randomly picks a character to hate on the whole match= ********

but it's so satisfying if you throw your opponent into the giant laser...

edit: delfino also gays people just like castle seige when it transitions..

 

[Ruuku]

I'm da original G&W baby. But yeah, I actually don't see much wrong with Norfair.

 

[nevershootme]

I'm da original G&W baby. But yeah, I actually don't see much wrong with Norfair.

just dont' get grabbed and be thrown into the lava.. and the capsule part is just fight or die for it.

 

[chckn]

just dont' get grabbed and be thrown into the lava.. and the capsule part is just fight or die for it.

Not really, you can still airdodge it.

 

[Metal_Dave]

I have concluded that PS2 and Norfair are reasonable for tournament play from all of my testing. Fenrir is right. Before you post on here saying no to the stage, actually play on it with someone for a while.

For once someone else agrees with PS2 and Norfair as suitable tournament stages! :O

 

[exarch]

PS2 and Norfair are totally legit stages. None of the hazards are broken or completely game changing, no single character is totally unbeatable, at least at this point in the metagame.

Not liking a stage is not a viable reason to ban it. It MUST be broken in some way. I don't see any argument against PS2 and Norfair.

Also squirtle's crawl is exactly the same speed as the conveyor belts. Epic mindgame counterpick.

 

[AfroQT]

if rainbow cruise is on i wanna play on rumble falls.

Hey exarch give me a list of neutrals/counterpicks (someone get fenrir to do it to).

Infact dont even post about the stages until you make a list of neutrals with counterpicks.

I just want tourneys to start using the same stages so i can memorize set of stages.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Hey exarch give me a list of neutrals/counterpicks (someone get fenrir to do it to).

Why not just ask me yourself? that works just fine. hehe

Neutrals:

Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island
Lylat Cruise
Smashville

Counterpicks:

Pokemon Stadium 1
Delfino Plaza
Castle Siege
Pirate Ship
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Brinstar
Luigi's Mansion
Pokemon Stadium 2
Norfair

Banned:

Rainbow Cruise
Pipes (Yoshi's Island - Melee)
Distant Planet
Pictochat
Onett
Green Greens
Corneria
Green Hill Zone
Jungle Japes
Bridge of Eldin
Big Blue
Mario Circuit
Shadow Moses Island
Port Town
Skyworld
Mushroomy Kingdom
Rumble Falls
New Pork City
Summit
75M
Mario Bros. Old
Flat Zone 2
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
WarioWare
Spear Pillar


Basically the Gigs list I helped make with a few changes.

Cruise is banned. The level is certainly capable of screwing a single player over...so yeah. Like, it was a good stage in Melee, but with several changes, it's not so great anymore. Feels REALLY gimpy to play on. I don't mind it being on, but I can also see why it shouldn't.

PokeStadium 2 is CP...honestly, I was one of the biggest bashers of this stage at first, but I really do think it's legit. It changes the way you play on it, yes. However, the neutral stage is probably my favorite single stage in the game. and the transformations really aren't that bad. If you die from it, it's your fault. If somebody can show me why it's gay, I may reevaluate.

Norfair is CP....same as PS2, I was a huge hater of this stage, but it's been brought to my attention that, while there are hazards, the level actually adds a LOT to the game in terms of recovery options and level spacing. the edge games that people can play would be horrendous in Melee, but the lack of ledge jump invincibility and the addition of more ledge stall time kinda takes away the gayness of it. I think the stage is needed.

Luigi's Mansion is stil on the CP list. I HATE the stage, but it's valuable for certain chars and certain situations. Like...the stage shouldn't win the match for you. it just shoudln't.

Pirate ship is still on because of the addition of water battles and the lack of CGing on it, save in certain situations. The hazards are avoidable...easily. and honestly, I think it's a necessary stage to have on.

Halberd/Siege are still on because they do not detract from tournament legitimacy

Pictochat, after a LOT of play on it...is simply too random. I love the stage...a lot...but when a missile suddenly appears ON my character, with no chance to avoid it...or spikes come up and charizard cannot land....that coupled with walls on half of the transforms and a couple really gay transforms...I think this stage will have to stay friendlies only.

 

[Gingerr]

I'm all about that list, I love Pirate Ship.

 

[Hai Im Fearless]

I dislike pirate ship because of the bombs that the other ship shoots at you.

Doesn't really seem fair, they're not really avoidable.

 

[Metal_Dave]

I agree with Fenrir's list the only map that really could be debatable is Pirate Ship imo.

 

[GDX]

I agree with Fenrir's list the only map that really could be debatable is Pirate Ship imo.

i say pirate ship and possibly PS2 are debatable.

 

[Metal_Dave]

i say pirate ship and possibly PS2 are debatable.

PS2 true also, I use to really hate that stage but been playing on it a lot lately, and I really enjoy it now. The different stages really do change up the depth of the game a lot. ^_^

 

[AfroQT]

Why not just ask me yourself? that works just fine. hehe

Neutrals:

Battlefield
Final Destination
Yoshi's Island
Lylat Cruise
Smashville

Counterpicks:

Pokemon Stadium 1
Delfino Plaza
Castle Siege
Pirate Ship
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Brinstar
Luigi's Mansion
Pokemon Stadium 2
Norfair

Banned:

Rainbow Cruise
Pipes (Yoshi's Island - Melee)
Distant Planet
Pictochat
Onett
Green Greens
Corneria
Green Hill Zone
Jungle Japes
Bridge of Eldin
Big Blue
Mario Circuit
Shadow Moses Island
Port Town
Skyworld
Mushroomy Kingdom
Rumble Falls
New Pork City
Summit
75M
Mario Bros. Old
Flat Zone 2
Hanenbow
Hyrule Temple
WarioWare
Spear Pillar


Basically the Gigs list I helped make with a few changes.

Cruise is banned. The level is certainly capable of screwing a single player over...so yeah. Like, it was a good stage in Melee, but with several changes, it's not so great anymore. Feels REALLY gimpy to play on. I don't mind it being on, but I can also see why it shouldn't.

PokeStadium 2 is CP...honestly, I was one of the biggest bashers of this stage at first, but I really do think it's legit. It changes the way you play on it, yes. However, the neutral stage is probably my favorite single stage in the game. and the transformations really aren't that bad. If you die from it, it's your fault. If somebody can show me why it's gay, I may reevaluate.

Norfair is CP....same as PS2, I was a huge hater of this stage, but it's been brought to my attention that, while there are hazards, the level actually adds a LOT to the game in terms of recovery options and level spacing. the edge games that people can play would be horrendous in Melee, but the lack of ledge jump invincibility and the addition of more ledge stall time kinda takes away the gayness of it. I think the stage is needed.

Luigi's Mansion is stil on the CP list. I HATE the stage, but it's valuable for certain chars and certain situations. Like...the stage shouldn't win the match for you. it just shoudln't.

Pirate ship is still on because of the addition of water battles and the lack of CGing on it, save in certain situations. The hazards are avoidable...easily. and honestly, I think it's a necessary stage to have on.

Halberd/Siege are still on because they do not detract from tournament legitimacy

Pictochat, after a LOT of play on it...is simply too random. I love the stage...a lot...but when a missile suddenly appears ON my character, with no chance to avoid it...or spikes come up and charizard cannot land....that coupled with walls on half of the transforms and a couple really gay transforms...I think this stage will have to stay friendlies only.

I didnt have a way to contact you so mah bad holmes.
And yeah i actually completely agree with fenrirs list.
Of course im still a neutralmonger at heart. But i dont mind counterpicks as much as i use to.

IMO i say fenrir's list should be Florida Tourney Standard.

 

[Mankosuki]

Fenrir's list is fine with me.

 

[AfroQT]

yeah i say we make Fenrirs list tourney saturday, atleast in florida.
If anyone disagrees atleast post why (and post alist of your own).
Good **** fenrir i fvckin love you lets kiss.

 

[Metal_Dave]

yeah i say we make Fenrirs list tourney saturday, atleast in florida.
If anyone disagrees atleast post why (and post alist of your own).
Good **** fenrir i fvckin love you lets kiss.

I'm all for that idea for the next tourney, but shouldn't we post a poll at least so people are aware of this to give in some feedback.

 

[GDX]

i agree with fenrir's list. it should be the new tourney standard for FL

someone should make a new thread and have it stickied and locked with the FL standard stages, so all of the people who wont read this thread can easily look up and see what we use.

i guess i need to go play on pokemon stadium 2 to get used to it...i think i've played on it 11 times, 10 of those times just to unlock a different stage

 

[Finch]

fenrir's list looks good. I still think lylat cruise is too biased to be neutral, but I've played on it enough that I can do alright on it so I won't ever ***** about it again.

 

[AfroQT]

I'm all for that idea for the next tourney, but shouldn't we post a poll at least so people are aware of this to give in some feedback.

No we will tourney test for feedback.

 

[Metal_Dave]

No we will tourney test for feedback.

lmao or just DO IT! lolll

 

[AfroQT]

We Gonna Do It Live

 

[Metal_Dave]

Dang...and I'm not gonna be able to make it to the next tourney. Lame.

 

[AfroQT]

That sucks mannnnnnnnnnn
Florida needs to improve, if you are serious double up on practicing. Atleast thats what im going to do.

 

[Metal_Dave]

Yeah 4sho you guys gonna be doing a big practice session anytime soon?

 

[Tommy_G]

You people are never going to stop *****ing about why stages should not be legal. How many more are we going to ban because you guys can't adapt.

^ my Jungle Japes anger. ^

If Pirate Ship is allowed, then so should Jungle Japes. Same distractions and both stages can kill you.
Why is Lylat still a neutral stage?

On a positive note, I am glad you are allowing other stages like Norfair.

So is Florida finally ready to start playing seriously when practicing for tournaments? Are you guys not going to be afraid of losing your status because you lost in friendlies? Screw the power rankings. Everyone loses, we know this. I knew this was going to be a big problem right before Last Stand, but I didn't think anyone would listen. For all of us to get better, we have to practice seriously and intelligently in friendlies.

Afro, it's not about practicing more. It's about practicing seriously.

 

[AfroQT]

You people are never going to stop *****ing about why stages should not be legal. How many more are we going to ban because you guys can't adapt.

^ my Jungle Japes anger. ^

If Pirate Ship is allowed, then so should Jungle Japes. Same distractions and both stages can kill you.
Why is Lylat still a neutral stage?
On a positive note, I am glad you are allowing other stages like Norfair.

So is Florida finally ready to start playing seriously when practicing for tournaments? Are you guys not going to be afraid of losing your status because you lost in friendlies? Screw the power rankings. Everyone loses, we know this. I knew this was going to be a big problem right before Last Stand, but I didn't think anyone would listen. For all of us to get better, we have to practice seriously and intelligently in friendlies.

Afro, it's not about practicing more. It's about practicing seriously.

Jungle Japes isnt just a counterpick, the stage is completely ********.
Before i didnt practice at all, now im going to practice both more and serious.

 

[AfroQT]

updated i guess.
For future tourney use since no one seemed to disagree.

 

[Gingerr]

You people are never going to stop *****ing about why stages should not be legal. How many more are we going to ban because you guys can't adapt.

^ my Jungle Japes anger. ^

If Pirate Ship is allowed, then so should Jungle Japes. Same distractions and both stages can kill you.
Why is Lylat still a neutral stage?

On a positive note, I am glad you are allowing other stages like Norfair.

So is Florida finally ready to start playing seriously when practicing for tournaments? Are you guys not going to be afraid of losing your status because you lost in friendlies? Screw the power rankings. Everyone loses, we know this. I knew this was going to be a big problem right before Last Stand, but I didn't think anyone would listen. For all of us to get better, we have to practice seriously and intelligently in friendlies.

Afro, it's not about practicing more. It's about practicing seriously.

Jungle Japes is sosososo little. That's the only reason I don't like it. I've never played on it though, I don't think.

Lylat is neutral. I don't like it, but it's still a neutral stage.

Pirate Ship is amazing

Serious friendlies are serious! Come to Nexus more then if you wanna play hard.

 

[Master Raven]

I don't see why Port Town and Jungle Japes should be banned. About the only thing wrong with Japes is that it has an incredibly ****ing high ceiling making star KOs a lot more difficult.

Port Town... it seems like a simply more annoying version of Mute City to me. Don't see anything about it that makes it bannable.