Florida Neutral/Counterpicks (updated)

[[FBC] ESAM]

I thought we already decided on a list. You have to go into this knowing that not everyone is going to be happy and/or like all of the stages on the counterpick list. For real, just do one for good and forget about it. People will cry and disagree no matter what.

Since when did we decide on a list? People have been arguing for banning/adding this entire thread.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

hey why isn't distant planet a counterpick anymore?

 

[Finch]

Only fenrir and afro decided on a list, which is a good list except for norfair.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Norfair isn't that bad...you can shield the lava wave, the lava coming up is okay, and the lava wall prevents camping, which can help more characters than it hurts. It just makes you play differently than on a neutral stage.

 

[Finch]

I'm pretty sure afro posted somewhere that he played a doubles match on it and everyone spent more time avoiding stuff than fighting. It's like big blue.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

i like norfair even if pit can camp the ledges safely...its not that bad of a stage...but we need to put distant planet back on its a good stage

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

You can have a different doubles list than singles list...some singles stages are stupid in doubles, like luigi's mansion...

 

[Gingerr]

I'm pretty sure afro posted somewhere that he played a doubles match on it and everyone spent more time avoiding stuff than fighting. It's like big blue.

I think it was when Gmoney counterpicked it on Afro at Willvo this past weekend, just to prove how absolutely awful the stage really is. They said they both spent way more time trying to avoid random **** than actually fighting one another. Bad stage is bad.

Also, HRnut, I don't remember Distant Planet ever being a counterpick, I wish :[ I love that stage!

Even if only Afro and Fenrir agreed on a list, it was a pretty good list, and I agree with the fact that we should just implement a list that's used in all FL tournaments. Having to look up stage lists every weekend before a tournament is getting old

 

[Metal_Dave]

I'm pretty sure afro posted somewhere that he played a doubles match on it and everyone spent more time avoiding stuff than fighting. It's like big blue.

What? All my matches on norfair are pretty fast pace, and the lava is not really that big of a problem as everyone is making it sound. It can be shielded, or just edge hog, or an even spot dodge. That's a lot of options... O_o

 

[QDVS]

Lylat Cruise
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island

Stage list complete!!!

 

[Gingerr]

Or make things super simple like QDVS here has! :D

 

[~^.NoiR.^~]

frigate off, ps2 off. The rest look fine

 

[GDX]

I think it was when Gmoney counterpicked it on Afro at Willvo this past weekend, just to prove how absolutely awful the stage really is. They said they both spent way more time trying to avoid random **** than actually fighting one another. Bad stage is bad.

Also, HRnut, I don't remember Distant Planet ever being a counterpick, I wish :[ I love that stage!

Even if only Afro and Fenrir agreed on a list, it was a pretty good list, and I agree with the fact that we should just implement a list that's used in all FL tournaments. Having to look up stage lists every weekend before a tournament is getting old

at the time i agreed with fenrir's list...

but i really dont think PS2 should be a counterpick stage. The wind transformation makes air combat a joke, and pretty much hinders fighting (it even makes you not want to jump since you'll go so high). The ice transformation doesnt necessarily hinder fighting, but the sliding across the stage even when you stop walking is just bad. While you are "sliding", i dont think you can even attack, or at least do normal attacks. Id have to test that last part more though (i was meta knight on the ice part. i ran and stopped so i slid, and i couldn't do my jab flurry until i stopped)

cruise should stay off

pirate ship really is a fine CP stage. The water makes for everyone with bad recoveries to have a chance to live longer. The background obstacles are annoying, but avoidable. besides, its really no different from Haliberd, because Pirate ship is really just Haliberd with a zelda skin put on top.

i personally think norfair is dumb for doubles. its an OK singles CP, since you can air dodge the lava waves.

i think distant planet isnt a CP stage most of the time is because of the walkoff portion on the left thats ALWAYS there (unlike delfino or castle seige, where its periodic). Penguin can get you over there and just chaingrab you to oblivion

 

[Gingerr]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but again, it just proves that people are going to disagree. What you think is unplayable about PS2, other people are going to think is fine, and therefore, there's never going to be a list that EVERYONE agrees with, ya know? That's why I'm saying I think the list should just be implemented and be done with. Not everyone is going to be able to get the stages they want-- I love Pictochat, that'll never happen.

I loved what you said about Pirate Ship though, the characters with bad recovery thing is exactly why I want that stage to stay on.

 

[HRNUT (Honey Roasted)]

Pictochat And Distant Planet Ftw!!!

 

[Gingerr]

Might as well throw in Wario Ware while we're at it. . .

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Gingerr, people aren't disagreeing that much, only 3-4 stages are debatable, and are being debated, which is perfectly fine. We don't want a tournament to end up having a different result because of hit into the right side of norfair right when the lava wall comes up and you get additional % for no reason. Pirate ship can be irritating, but the obstacles aren't enough reason to ban the staeg. Rainbow cruise can be gay to certain characters and incredibly good for others, making it severely unbalanced. Frigate has no ledge on the right for barely enough time to have any problems with it, and the flips are very predictable. PS2 has weird transformations that have not been fully tested, so i personally think it shouldn't be on until more people test it and see what can happen.

 

[Fenrir VII]

frigate off, ps2 off. The rest look fine

...an example of a post that I ignore.

at the time i agreed with fenrir's list...

but i really dont think PS2 should be a counterpick stage. The wind transformation makes air combat a joke, and pretty much hinders fighting (it even makes you not want to jump since you'll go so high). The ice transformation doesnt necessarily hinder fighting, but the sliding across the stage even when you stop walking is just bad. While you are "sliding", i dont think you can even attack, or at least do normal attacks. Id have to test that last part more though (i was meta knight on the ice part. i ran and stopped so i slid, and i couldn't do my jab flurry until i stopped)

.....

i think distant planet isnt a CP stage most of the time is because of the walkoff portion on the left thats ALWAYS there (unlike delfino or castle seige, where its periodic). Penguin can get you over there and just chaingrab you to oblivion

Pictochat And Distant Planet Ftw!!!

While sliding on PS2's ice, you can't do a regular attack. you can jump, though, so you can do aerials at will or an usmash. The wind is brilliant for characters like Ike against MK. xD It's different, but not disruptive. that's all I'm saying.

As for distant planet, I'm not really concerned about the walk-off...if he lands a grab facing that way on that slope, he deserves to get the kill on you...just sayin.
However, it's ridiculously hard to hit somebody camping that lower ledge, underneath the main stage, which makes the stage REALLY gay and stally...I don't like that. When it rains, it just forces them to edge stall until it stops, and then keep camping. it's just a stupid layout. I really, really, really like the stage too, but yeah, that's pretty dumb.

Pictochat is too random for a tourney stage. a lot of the obstacles appear ON your character, unavoidable... plus half the transforms have a wall...and there are strange glitches. I don't think it should be on.

If you want to argue Norfair, address my post a couple pages back. I don't feel like typing it again right now. : /

 

[Finch]

I'm not gonna lie, gingerr's sig is pretty awesome.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I think it was when Gmoney counterpicked it on Afro at Willvo this past weekend, just to prove how absolutely awful the stage really is. They said they both spent way more time trying to avoid random **** than actually fighting one another. Bad stage is bad.

Also, HRnut, I don't remember Distant Planet ever being a counterpick, I wish :[ I love that stage!

Even if only Afro and Fenrir agreed on a list, it was a pretty good list, and I agree with the fact that we should just implement a list that's used in all FL tournaments. Having to look up stage lists every weekend before a tournament is getting old

But for the most part the stages will be the same. You MAY have 1-2 stages taken out or added, big ****ing deal.

 

[Gingerr]

I know Pictochat has to stay off, it's just one of those guilty pleasure stages I have :3

 

[Master Raven]

As far as Norfair is concerned, I really like the stage. Yeah the lava is stupid and annoying, but it's really easy to see coming and it's not too difficult to avoid, and it makes for some interesting strategies to utilize against your opponent. I love it when the lava walls come from either side and I force my opponent into a position where I can toss him or smack him into the walls to rack up some good damage and eventually KO him. I love taking advantages of the stages like that. The stage is also REALLY good for platform-happy characters (most notably the sword users), so I definitely think it's a good counter-pick if you're playing someone such as Donkey Kong and Meta Knight. I don't know how well this stage works for doubles as I have yet to play doubles on that stage, but as far as singles go, I'd definitely keep it legit, plus it has one of the best tracks in the game (Golden Sun Medley).

I never thought of Pirate Ship benefiting for characters with sub-par recoveries. Hmm, maybe I'll consider CPing this stage the next time I'm playing Ike.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Gingerr we'll have to get some friendlies there at the next tourney. Love that stage, too. hehehe

and Tommy G, yeah, that's cool man...basically throw the money match thing because a lot of people use it as an excuse to play a match. lol not trying to be like that or anything. friendlies are amazing.

 

[Gingerr]

Hell yeah, lets do it! :D

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

I think Poke Stadium 2 is a good idea. Is there any characters the truely benifit from it though?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

I think Poke Stadium 2 is a good idea. Is there any characters the truely benifit from it though?

Diddy is the best on the electric part becuase getting hit by one banana unless you are in the dead center will lead to you being off the cliff because of the converyor belts. Wind is beneficial to G&W because he can keep uair-ing you farther up giving you that 1% steadily. All people on ice are ****ed.

 

[Gmoney]

ICs got them ice boots tho!

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

But there is no mountain to use them on, its slope protection not slip protection

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Ohh i see. And i also thought that IC's Couldnt slide on ice ether.

 

[Fenrir VII]

Actually, yeah, the IC's don't slide if I remember right.

Basically, I can see how it benefits certain things...like I mentioned Ike vs MK. The wind is amazing for Ike there...also helps recoveries.
The GW thing is kinda hard to get them up there...and if he does, just DI to either side enough.
The Diddy thing is actually a really good point. I REALLY like conveyors with Ike, though. Canceled fsmashes? oh yeah.

 

[Queen B. Kyon]

Actually, yeah, the IC's don't slide if I remember right.

Basically, I can see how it benefits certain things...like I mentioned Ike vs MK. The wind is amazing for Ike there...also helps recoveries.
The GW thing is kinda hard to get them up there...and if he does, just DI to either side enough.
The Diddy thing is actually a really good point. I REALLY like conveyors with Ike, though. Canceled fsmashes? oh yeah.

I think its a good idea. Lets just keep the stage and see how many people will John about it once they play it at a tornament. If theres any stage i dont like its Luigi's. Id rather have Spear Pillar. Pretty stage. Or Jungle Japes. Why is that banned? =)

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Jungle Japes is banned because if you get hit into the water on the left side, some people don't have a good enough recovery so they die, and falco's chain grab can get them off easily.

 

[Finch]

Jungle Japes is banned because if you get hit into the water on the left side, some people don't have a good enough recovery so they die, and falco's chain grab can get them off easily.

Wait, I thought we figured out that you can always avoid the spike after falco's chaingrab if you DI it correctly. Or do you have to airdodge and then fall in the water anyway?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Yeah...you have to airdodge so you fall either way.