Fire Emblem: The Discussion Thread (keep FE Fates story under spoilertags)

[ChKn]

Guess I'll try out Wyvern Rider Lon'qu. Running though Hard Mode right now.

Which classes are more efficient for Sully and Stahl?

 

[KayB]

Counter is pretty useful imo. If an enemy lands a successful attack on you, it's pretty much another hit. It's almost essentially a x1.5 or x2.0 damage. It's especially useful if you have abilities like Renewal, Sol, and/or Lifetaker since you can regain HP on the fly. So pretty much free extra damage. Not to mention that Renewal, Lifetaker, and Counter work 100% of the time when activated, so there's that. My Laurent has Counter, Lifetaker, and Sol (and a few other abilities). He's a hero right now, so he has reasonable Res and Def. He doesn't have a very high attack, but the combination of Counter, Lifetaker, and Sol make up for it. If they don't kill Laurent in one turn, he's pretty much a regenerating unit.

There really was only one way to make Libra useful for me. I turned him into a Dread Fighter, which boosted his already high residual stats. I gave him a few Dracoshields to up his defense. I'm aiming to get Agressor so I can increase his attack, then maybe put him back as War Monk so I can use him to heal again. After this, now he actually has an attack, has monster Res stats and pretty good Def stats, and has Renewal (and he can heal once he's back to War Monk). So yeah, didn't turn out so bad.

Tricksters aren't all that useful to my disappointment. I really wish they had better abilities. As of now, they are pretty much like War Clerics that use swords (and doesn't have Renewal). Still better than Sages I guess (until they get tomefaire, I don't know).

 

[Raziek]

Counter is bad because anything that has a good chance to hit you AND attacks from one range is a Swordmaster/Assassin and does **** damage.

Anything else is like, bows, Rexcalibur, etc and you should just pick a better skill. Vantage beats the pants off counter, especially with Sol.

 

[CRASHiC]

Tricksters aren't all that useful to my disappointment. I really wish they had better abilities. As of now, they are pretty much like War Clerics that use swords (and doesn't have Renewal). Still better than Sages I guess (until they get tomefaire, I don't know).

They can get pretty silly if you use Chrom and his children. Throwing them on the frontline almost always gets them targeted, and when surrounded by the royal family leads them to having a stupid avoidance that essentially makes the opponent waste a turn. Throw the sword that deals magic damage on them so they hit any unit that isn't using a Longbow.

And the use of Staffs is always pretty huge. Nothing like a team with 4 rescues throwing your General half way across the battlefield

 

[Ussi]

Staffs are meh

Recuse does allow for some unique moves, it is quite fun to do them, but you can't recuse a whole team ahead unless half your team are staff users

It is great for bringing people back, but falconknights pretty do what a trickster can do but better. Better off being an assassin than trickster for chest picking. (Heck don't even have to stay thief class)

Staff/physical weapon classes are really bad, like the worst kind of hybrid. War cleric, falconknight, and trickster are all underwhelming classes. Falconknight at least had the tidbit of being the fastest lance unit for end game stuff, but you gonna have to waste a skill slot on iote's shield. if you manage to get staves to B so then magic doesn't matter anymore except for recuse range i guess its alright..

 

[Raziek]

Rescue is essentially equivalent to Warp-skipping in older FEs.

It's just all-around lame when you consider chaining, and I don't think should really be thought of beyond its intended use. You can trivialize a lot of chapters just by Rescue-chaining a Galeforce Units (Or two) across the map to kill the boss.

 

[Ussi]

i'm just happy i can use recuse to move my lock picker chest to chest easily

Galeforce already trivializes the kill commander chapters. Recuse just makes it 1 turn sooner

 

[Reizilla]

Rescue is essentially equivalent to Warp-skipping in older FEs.

It's just all-around lame when you consider chaining, and I don't think should really be thought of beyond its intended use. You can trivialize a lot of chapters just by Rescue-chaining a Galeforce Units (Or two) across the map to kill the boss.

Chapter 19 is the easiest map in the game with this.

 

[KayB]

Counter is bad because anything that has a good chance to hit you AND attacks from one range is a Swordmaster/Assassin and does **** damage.

Anything else is like, bows, Rexcalibur, etc and you should just pick a better skill. Vantage beats the pants off counter, especially with Sol.

Counter by itself isn't that good. But like I said, when you combine it with Sol/Renewal/Lifetaker, it's not that bad, especially if you have Bowbreaker and/or Tomebreaker. I'm not saying that this is the ideal way to go, but it's an available option that works for characters that don't have a better choice. And it's a new combination that's fun to experiment with.

Sol beats Counter hard (then again, Sol kinda beats a lot of things). Not seeing how Vantage is that much of a counter aside from 1 hit KOs.

 

[Raziek]

Because 1HKOs become extremely practical later in the game when you can buy crit weapons. Vantage also works even better combined with offensive skills (Luna, Astra, Aether), brave weapons, and dual strike/guard.

It's a bad defensive skill compared to Pavise, Sol and others, and it's certainly much worse offensively.

Not to mention anyone that can get counter can also get either Wrath/Axefaire or Sol to make better combinations that could simply help you avoid getting hit or kill them before they could hit you at all. If you're getting hit, you should be worried about surviving, not dealing counter damage.

There's a good chance that if counter is doing a. Decent amount of damage (20+) that it will cause you to kill the enemy that attacked, leaving a gap for a second one to attack and kill you.

It's a bad skill that's only good for trolling your friends in SteetPass.

 

[telemaster]

sad that there is severe lack of fog of war/defense maps =\ the defense maps in RD were so ****ing epic!

 

[Ussi]

Counter is a good skill. For the enemy. Which is why its a top skill for streetpass. The skill at least makes a skill lethal on the enemy compared to them getting astra and missing 3-5 times

 

[Raziek]

Ok, so a thought exercise/planning exercise got a bit out of hand for me and turned into something longer than originally planned. I was originally just doing a Street Pass tier list (with minor influences for in-game), but it turned into me min/maxing the child units while I was at it. I'm not gonna clean it up, but enjoy my scatterbrained theorycrafting!

Criteria: Some weight is given to the difficulty of getting a unit to their max stats, (For example, it is considered that Gaius has awful defense for the majority of the time you will use him, despite the fact that Street Pass teams assume capping when evaluating stats) Tiers not sorted within Tier. Post-game units (Walhart, Gangrel, etc) not evaluated, nor SpotPass units. Bracketed info indicates optimal parents)

Beyond Godlike:
Morgan

Godlike:
Avatar
Lucina (Sully/Olivia)
Inigo (Lon'Qu/Fred/Virion)
Kjelle (Chrom/Vaike/Gaius/Donny)
Severa (Lon'Qu/Stahl/Fred/Gaius)
Gerome (Gregor)
Noire (Lon'Qu/Gregor/Donny/Gaius)
Nah (Donny/Gregor/Gaius)

Great:
Chrom
Sully
Lon'Qu
Panne
Cordelia
Olivia
Henry
Gregor
Owain (Fred/Donny/Vaike)
Brady (Henry)
Yarne (Donny/Stahl/Fred)
Laurent (Ricken)

Good:
Cynthia (Gaius/Frederick)
Nowi
Gaius
Tharja
Lissa
Stahl
Vaike
Kellam
Anna
Cherche
Say'ri
Tiki
Basilio
Flavia

Average:
Frederick
Virion
Miriel
Donnel

Meh:
Sumia
Maribelle

Bad:
Ricken
Libra

Lucina: Choice is between Sully for Wyvern Rider or Olivia for Galeforce/Peg. Additional considerations: choosing Olivia gives Inigo Rightful King, and no real good class choices (Chrom's are mediocre), Sully gives Kjelle Aether and the same classes. Sully probably the better option. Stat bonuses are fairly negligible.

Owain: Not having access to Merc or Wyvern hurts him. Myrm/Barb are good, pass Galeforce from Lissa if desired. Frederick is a decent Dad here, Donny gives Merc/Fighter, Vaike gives just Fighter. Lon'Qu is a good choice here as well, but he's at a premium and Owain already has Myrmidon.

Inigo: Dude has the best base classes in the game. Merc/Myrm/Barb is 2/3 of the Holy trinity (Merc/Myrm/Wyvern). Therefore, best Dad choice is probably Lon'Qu. Frederick works if you care less about massive speed bonuses or want to get General skills, but I feel Inigo is best suited to an all-offense, all the time approach. Virion is a poor man's Lon'Qu, giving slightly worse stat bonuses/growths but the Wyvern class. Gale Force down from Olivia, ideally. Swordfaire also a reasonable choice if you want to save time.

Brady: Brady is basically pidgeon-holed into magic classes. Henry is de-facto best choice here, gives Dark Mage, Barb, Thief and solid stat bonuses. Otherwise just grab Libra for Dark Mage + Stats.

Kjelle: Carries the distinction of being one of the few children to have four base classes (her class is not one of Sully's, giving her Knight, Myrm, Cav, Wyvern, which is an excellent set to start. Best dads: Chrom (Aether, Stats), Vaike (Merc, Stats, pass Axefaire if you go the Wvyern Route), Gaius (Pegasus, Stats. Sol), Donny (Merc, Peg).

Cynthia: Worst child IMO. Sumia's class set sucks, and she only had 4 husbands. In min/maxing she has no claim to Chrom's heart. Henry is Brady's best Dad and doesn't help her much. Gaius is an ok option giving Myrm/Thief and making the best of bad stats by just pumping the crap out of her Speed/Skill). Fred is an ok choice but Cynthia really doesn't deserve him over other people.

Severa: Unbelievably good. Merc/Peg are very key offensive classes and her mother's stat bonuses are NUTS. Lon'Qu is pretty much the defacto best Dad here, giving her both Myrm and Wyvern Rider, as well as goofy good stat bonuses. Stahl gives Myrm/Cav and good stats, Fred for Wyvern/Stats, Gaius for Myrm/Stats.

Gerome: This guy is basically destined to hit like a freight train but he can't get Gale Force. Such a shame. Wyvern, Fighter are good starts. Best Dad: Gregor, no contest. Gives him Myrm, Merc, and Barbarian, as well as healthy bonuses to Strength and Defense. Stahl is a good second choice, but Gregor shouldn't be in exceptionally ridiculous demand.

Yarne: For some reason, Yarne loses Wyvern Rider, despite it being a gender ambivalent class. Best Dads here are Donny (Fighter, Merc, Stats), Fred (Wvyern, Stats), Stahl (Cav, Myrm, Stats).

Laurent: Just give him Ricken for the ridiculous magic bonus if you really want to use him. Super-mage is all he can really do.

Noire: Tharja's class sets are akward as helllll. Basically, keep her in a Bow class and make her an offensive unit. Best Dad is Lon'Qu, but Severa really wants him. Gaius, Donny or Gregor are the best calls. Cherche wants Gregor, so go with Gaius for Astra/Lethality/Pass /Galeforce and the Assassin class, should you choose not to use Sniper for Longbow usage. Bow Knight also good. Donny loses Astra but is still good.

Nah: Has Wyvern Rider. Best choices are: Donny (Merc/Peg), Gregor (Myrm/Merc), Gaius (Myrm/Peg), Stahl (Myrm/Cav). Pick 2 offensive classes you want, she can't get everything. Gregor can pass Zerker stuff if desired.

Pair the Avatar with a first-generation unit to patch up a hole and make a child godlike, or pair Avatar with a second-generation unit to make Morgan absolutely ridiculous.

Raz's Optimal Pairings:

Lissa - Vaike
Olivia - Frederick
Maribelle - Henry
Sully - Chrom
Sumia - Gaius
Cordelia - Lon'Qu
Cherche - Gregor
Panne - Stahl
Miriel - Ricken
Tharja - Donnel
Nowi – Avatar M

Unpaired/Available Dads:
Virion
Kellam
Libra

Sumia only gets Gaius because I can't willingly leave a child unrecruited. Otherwise I'd give Gaius to someone else and re-arrange things a bit. (Tharja, probably)

Avatar F is worse, because then you have one less Dad and another Mom, so you either have to marry a 2nd gen unit or start pairing off comparitively bad husbands like Libra, Kellam and Virion.

 

[Tetra's Tracker]

sad that there is severe lack of fog of war/defense maps =\ the defense maps in RD were so ****ing epic!

I've always disliked fog of war maps, I wouldn't cut them out of FE completely because they've been part of the series since the beginning, but reducing their number greatly. Got to agree on the defense chapters in Radiant Dawn though, they were incredible. Who can forget 3-13 and it's famous NPC archer?

 

[Raziek]

3-13 Archer never forget.

 

[Mr. Johan]

For those who were asking about Waste tomes, Etzel just appeared on Spotpass, comes with his Waste tome, and you can buy that tome from him.

 

[Ussi]

*blatent favoritism towards Severa*

The 3 children above Severa don't get galeforce for free and is the best base class you can start with.


3-13 is the only chapter to ever make me just wish these 13 turns were over.. I can't cheese Ike with sleep in hard mode :x

I should probably try using Zihark and giving him a robe and dracoshield and beastfoe or paragon someday

 

[jamlosingthegame]

I still wanna try having an Avatar or Morgan with all the -breaker skills as Assassin or Swordmaster (Or an Assassin with Superior Bow/Sword and two free skill slots for whatever). In my female Avatar rung, I have Henry being Noire's dad so she currently has Counter. Counter+Vengeance just seemed such a gimmickically funny idea at the time for me. Also, what do you guys think of Sage with +2 Mag, Tomefaire, and Valflame equipped?

 

[Raziek]

*blatent favoritism towards Severa*

The 3 children above Severa don't get galeforce for free and is the best base class you can start with.


3-13 is the only chapter to ever make me just wish these 13 turns were over.. I can't cheese Ike with sleep in hard mode :x

I should probably try using Zihark and giving him a robe and dracoshield and beastfoe or paragon someday

Tiers not sorted within Tier.

 

[Ussi]

I skim so well

Why Lissa > Maribella?


I still think lon'qu is bad, i find it easier to use Say'ri and she can get galeforce and the wyvern classes. The only thing Lon'qu has on Say'ri is 2 more speed/skill on his cap but Say'ri has 1 more str and 2 more defense

 

[Lythium]

Pretty sure that Lissa just has better stats than Maribelle, in general.

And more useful skills in the starting class.

 

[Ussi]

Maribella has much better offensive capabilities over Lissa and being a good staff user doesn't matter what your stats are that much

 

[Lythium]

It doesn't really matter much, because you can make any character crazy, but if you compare Lissa's starting stats and Maribelle's starting stats, Lissa comes out on top. And considering Lissa starts at level one, and Maribelle, level 3, they don't stack up in Maribelle's favour.

I used Maribelle because I liked her, but she's not particularly good, and I found Brady to be kinda meh in the grand scheme of things. Owain is pretty amazing though.

 

[Ussi]

Meh, stat caps make Owain not as great as Lissa lowers str. With Brady you give him a dark mage daddy and he can do some work.

I just realized.. All of Lucina's mothers reduce offensive capabilties except Olivia...

Lol its like they knew children were OP so they didn't want to give you a free broken one.

 

[~Firefly~]

Having a chapter go perfectly well on Lunatic on the first attempt, only to lose it on the last turn that matters due to a combination of a single error of judgement and the game capitalizing on said mistake with some unfortunate RNG, kinda hurts. =[

...No Delta, it wasn't a Hand Axe. (As if those weapons even exist past like, Ch. 3 on Lunatic mode)

 

[Shadocat]

i feel so dirty for using the exponential growth dlc for grinding lol.

 

[Rutger]

LB3 + Paragon is the best for grinding, once your character can solo it.

Skip enemy phase and watch them all disappear, except the two with only staffs. Only have to go through it a few times on Hard Mode and you'll have both skills of whatever tier two class you are in.

 

[Ussi]

Having a chapter go perfectly well on Lunatic on the first attempt, only to lose it on the last turn that matters due to a combination of a single error of judgement and the game capitalizing on said mistake with some unfortunate RNG, kinda hurts. =[

...No Delta, it wasn't a Hand Axe. (As if those weapons even exist past like, Ch. 3 on Lunatic mode)

Hand axes don't exist for the enemy ever, its all short axes even in the prologue.

 

[jamlosingthegame]

"Welcome to the RNG. Where the hit and crit are made up and the Weapon Triangle doesn't exist." - from some picture I saw a while ago.

 

[Reizilla]

@raz, i thought Chrom couldn't pass Aether to anyone that's not Lucina. I know I read that somewhere and then tried to get it on Morgan anyway, but it didn't work.

 

[telemaster]

what is access to royal weapons?

 

[Ussi]

Chrom passes aether to female children and rightful king to males

Morgan can only be male with Chrom.

Those who get aether are Cynthia and Kjelle

Speaking unique stuff. Lucina's falcion should be wieldable by her sibling once reaching A rank support. Wish there were alot of support event flags

 

[Reizilla]

Ah. That's lame.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I wonder when all the Awakening hype will die out and everyone will go back to ignoring this thread for years on end except for like two people.

 

[KayB]

A long time I bet. This game is freaking long if you actually try to make all your units the absolute best in perfection while trying to beat Lunatic mode.

Well hopefully anyway.

 

[telemaster]

yeah right now I'm finishing getting people married in my hard file. just started lunatic and easy mode too.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

How the hell did Walhart get so popular?

 

[Reizilla]

I love Walhart. He's such a badass.

 

[Raziek]

I found him very bland. Especially in comparison to other FE villains, like Ashnard or the Black Knight, in particular.

Pretty much every English FE villain I can think of is better. Lyon and Nergal most definitely.

 

[Rutger]

Walhart having Batou's VA was the best VA decision Nintendo made.

That alone made him pretty cool imo.


I thought his motive was kind of interesting, but he wasn't really fleshed out unfortunately. I would have rather had him stay the villain for the second half than have Grima though.