Final Fantasy IX Mafia | Game over! | Who won? :o

[~ Gheb ~]

Due to the hurricane issues and several players being possibly affected by it the prod time limit and the deadline have both been removed for the moment.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Tand needs to die, and here's why.

As I mentioned before, I had gotten to page 13 with my initial read, but lost my notes. I don't have the energy right now to attempt to do a full catch up.

I can sympathize with this, I suppose, doing a full catch up is rather daunting. However, Tand never actually gives a "full catch up" post, just little bits here and there, and never any real strong pushes. (Now that TT is ended I can give the comparison, it's much like Nabe without so many questions.)

I remember Hilt standing out to me in that some of his posts read like "advice". I am leery of these type of posts because they can make scum look useful when really all they are doing is telling town how to play the game. Below are two posts that show what I'm talking about.

This is one of a few stances Tand actually takes, based on Hilt giving advice. Yes, I agree that can be a scum tactic, but it's only a worry if there's no actual scum hunting. Hilt's given said scum hunting, and is now more or less clear.

J, why are you only focusing on me for reads? I know I am a replacement and before today didn't talk much, but there are a couple of other replacements from quiet slots. Don't you think you should target them?

THIS is what starts ringing alarm bells for me. Tand's defense as to J focusing on reads is "WHy are you after me, yeah I'm inactive but I'm not the ONLY inactive". Also, I believe J never actually pushes the issue any further, despite this scummy response.

Counts of scum distancing: 1

Anyway (posts not included due to there being little to include), before our next exhibit Tand includes some vague AM suspicion based on the math talk they'd been doing.

I like how AM's posts are a lot more readable on page 21 since he dropped his fake "math" talk. I find it interesting when he's not posing, he sounds very defensive. I don't like how he specifically targeted Hilt as Indy. Also thought it was weird how he asked "How can you tell TC is a lady?" because honestly I figured she was a girl based on her avatar (not reliable I know).

So, AM drops the math talk, which Tand likes, but she dislikes the defensiveness and indy speculation... but never actually pushes anything. WHY NOT?

Because my vote is on AM and I'm not convinced yet that they're town.

Thank you for clarifying that, SO WHY WEREN'T YOU PUSHING THEM? Seriously, a vote without a case is like Ryker without scum hunting... annoying, useless, and incredibly scummy.

*small snip*
The following posts are all from page 22. Keep in mind that there are some posts I didn't include because I didn't feel there was a defensive tone, but they did exclude the fake math speak AM had been using.

After being pressed a bit about AM, Tand gives a little more info about the read.

Relooking at the posts, I admit defensive may not have been the most accurate word. Maybe more aggravated? But I'll bold phrases that stood out to me.







Overall, the bolded parts AM is like "OMGAWD". The players in that slot should be able to give a defense to a reasonable question of "Why did you go SK instead of mafia?" instead of the reaction we got.

It's a Ryker/WL hydra. Aggravation is to be expected when anyone disagrees with them, and my exhibit in this case is again Time Travelers. Ryker was jumping up and down FURIOUS when we were about to lynch his number 1 townie Nabe (who happened to be scum) and again when we did lynch his number 2 townie PLSD (the other scum). Ultimately a null tell, so long as the other content is valid, but you never address that, do you?

I think it is possible that AM is scum and they did accurately target Hilt as an indy. I am in favor of lynching either of them for this reason.

Ugh. Seriously, you think AM is scum, but you also agree with his case? And so are willing to lynch Hilt largely because your scum pick made an indy case against them?

Yes.

Because of his "advice" posts which I mentioned before AM's accusation.
I think AM's reasoning is plausible partly because of the reasons given and because the Ryker half of the playerslot has played enough Indy to know what to look for when someone is playing indy.

I feel TC v July is TvT. I think Sang is town too.

In the interest of moving the game along because votes are spread everywhere, UNVOTE, VOTE HILT

So, that's your reasoning. You're voting Hilt because of a couple advice posts (a null tell), and because your #1 scum pick made a case against them? If you're town I'll have some "advice posts" of my own for you come post game. Mafia is out to lynch non-mafia. They like getting indies, but that's just a bonus, they're perfectly satisfied getting townies as well.

Why the unvote? Why no follow up vote? Are you implying you have no scum reads yourself?

Oh the irony. Yes, Tand has been putting votes on her scum reads, but there's barely any reasoning except when pressed, and even when the reasoning is given... well, I covered that above.

Jesus, I'm sorry that I haven't been posting. I've been really busy and just lost track of time. I'm going to switch my vote to Acrostic because I don't know if I'll be back on before deadline and I don't want a NL.

VOTE ACROSTIC

Do I even need to comment on why this post is bad?

I was actually hopeful you actually knew who the scum team was until you said this. You're wrong on me, sir. -_-

*snip*

From Mafiascum - A Bodyguard is a role who can target a player at Night to protect them. However, if the protected player is supposed to be killed, the Bodyguard is killed instead ("taking the bullet" for them, as it were).

Remember that advice post thing Tand was after Hilt-town for? Yeah, that one. I'd say this falls in much the same category, right? An easy non-scumhunting thing scum can do to try and appear helpful.

Although both Bodyguard and Jailkeeper are relatively weak doctor roles, I find it unlikely we have two of them with no apparent SK/Night Vig. A one shot day vig would be immune to both protect types.

J, I noticed you did not claim your character when you claimed your role. Why not? Are you going to?

JTB - cleared by mod confirm
Acro - cleared by un-cc Cop claim
Hilt- Cleared by Acro cop read and and use of day vig power.
(Did consider Hilt may be a one shot executioner similar to Inception mafia, but Acro's inno read of him clears him at this time)

Where's the solid J stance? It feels like you'e dancing around the issue here, can't quite decide whether or not to bus J or defend him.

As far as my scum reads go, I'm actually kinda lost. I have no clue who to go after right now. I would look at J as scum because I do agree with Kuz's reasons, but J's reaction doesn't fit with a scum J to me.

I'd like to see some AM because I don't recall any input from him the last part of D2. He's still on my igmeou list.

Nicholas is actually pretty clear this game. Not sure if it's been a while since I played with him and a change in town style or if he's just better as scum.

Personally, I feel Dad is town. He's been super aggressive this game with concrete reasons on his picks. But I've been deadly wrong on Kuz before and I still have a burnt hand.

More indecision on J, a reminder that he hasn't quite dropped his AM suspicion (although he's inexplicably gone from #1 scum to IGMEOY), and some buddying of me and D. I agree that D's obv-town, and I know I'm town, but Tand line about me strikes me as odd. "Actually pretty clear", but not sure if it's a change in town style or just better as scum? Seriously, explain that.

I pray you're town, J, because it would really bother me if you were using this AtE attack as scum.

I do agree with your points. Unfortunately, people are pretty much allowed to play how they like. It can be abrasive, one liners, pictures, song lyrics and so on.

Ultimately do you feel Kuz is scum? Then make an argument other than he's being a bully and rude. If you feel he is town, make a case on someone you believe in scum. Continuing to bring up Kuz's playstyle and how many people are playing that way is best done on Social and hopefully a general consensus can be reached.

Ultimately do you feel AM is scum? Then make an argument other than he's being annoying with the math. If you feel he is town, make a case on someone you believe is scum. Continuing to complain about Ryker's play style does nothing but make you look scummy and is best brought up in post game and hopefully a general consensus can be reached.

The reason I included the bodyguard quote is I saw several people were not familiar with the role and there's a clear example of what it is unlike some SWF specific roles made by the mod like many games here.

I am unable to find your character at all. I went to Wikipedia and the FF wiki and found nothing.

VOTE J

So, looks like Tand's finally decided on the bus. No reasoning (as per usual), just hop right on that wagon.

Here's my train of thought. I have no doubt I'm going to be blasted as scummy, but honestly I don't care.

As far as I'm concerned, if you think J is scum, then vote for him. Even if it puts him to L-1. I have seen too many games where Town is scared to push a wagon/lynch and sits on their votes and nothing gets pushed until the last minute when we mislynch a townie. I feel it happened twice this game already.

If J is town, he's said he's not going to hammer. If he does, then he's proven we don't need him around because he's going to muck up the waters.

If J's scum, then I'm fine killing scum. We have more than enough evidence against him in his posts to find a back trail to his scummates.

So, honestly, push the lynch or move to another player. But hovering around L-2 is just ridiculous.

Does anyone doubt that J would have quick hammered if allowed to do so? Tand pushing to put J at L-1 strikes me as major dumb or scum here. And now we've reached the present day,

Yeah, that was pretty much my read on Kuz too.

I don't like how Sang tried to back up J a few times with out of game reasons such as AP studies. And still feel AM is scum.

Seriously, this must be the fourth or fifth time you've gone "Still feel AM is scum" without pushing anything. Your scum reads feel fake with no reasoning provided, and when you are pushed for reasoning, frankly it's horrible. Additionally, your interactions with J feel quite odd, as you rarely address the issue of whether J's scum or not, instead dancing around J's issues with kuz's play style. I feel quite confident in this lynch.

Vote: Tand

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I don't like how Sang tried to back up J a few times with out of game reasons such as AP studies. And still feel AM is scum.

The next person that tries to use that argument is seriously gonna piss me off. What part of WE WERE TOGETHER STUDYING FOR SCHOOL AT THE TIME don't you understand? I wasn't backing him up. I was telling Kuzi that that was a stupid *** argument to follow through with because I was with him the entire time before deadline and he hadn't really had much of a chance to do anything. And, are you ignoring the fact that I had even stated that I disliked J? Are you trying to paint me as scum because I was defending a scum member when, 1) I would probably never do that as scum for reasons such as this, and 2) I disliked J starting near the end of D2 even. Would you like to back up why I am scum for reasons other than that?

However when it comes to reacting to the doc/jailer issue and pressuring J yesterDay Sang was much more aggressive than Tandora, however Sang's #1632 seems like she's concerned about Nich giving her and J's conversations a closer examination. Scummy.

I'm not concerned at all. I'm just curious of what he has to say. In fact, I want him to take a closer examination and explain to me why he said what he said. Not sure how you got that misunderstanding from "Just wonderring, what part looked odd to you? Like, which interraction are you talking about?"

@Nich. Speaking of which, could you go back to my 1632 and answer my question?

 

[Tandora]

When I came into the game, I was extremely frustrated because I had lost my notes and could not remember if I had pegged Seikend as town or not. This was after coming home from a vacation that had left me extremely exhausted and losing my notes had left me demoralized.

I do not recall ever once promising a full catch up. J was the one who had mentioned that.

 

[Tandora]

The next person that tries to use that argument is seriously gonna piss me off. What part of WE WERE TOGETHER STUDYING FOR SCHOOL AT THE TIME don't you understand? I wasn't backing him up. I was telling Kuzi that that was a stupid *** argument to follow through with because I was with him the entire time before deadline and he hadn't really had much of a chance to do anything. And, are you ignoring the fact that I had even stated that I disliked J? Are you trying to paint me as scum because I was defending a scum member when, 1) I would probably never do that as scum for reasons such as this, and 2) I disliked J starting near the end of D2 even. Would you like to back up why I am scum for reasons other than that?

J was using a lot of out of game reasons for his deflection. You did back him up by the very reasons I bolded. Why bother noting J was busy IRL unless you felt you needed to defend him on some level. Either you choose to say it because you were trying to help a scummate or you did it because on some level you agreed with his reasons. You decided to post that out of game information, so you must of felt it was relevant.

When I was scum in D&D, my brother Ryunnosuke and I were both scummates. It was extremely easy for the two of us to communicate in person to collaborate our next move. Having a RL scummate is not impossible and it would provide the perfect excuse to work together when you were studying together. It was pretty obvious the two of you had plenty of opportunities to post during your study sessions.

Anyone and everyone is going to say "Duh, it was obvious J was scum after TC's flip". Well, I'm a little gullible so I tend to take claims very seriously and look at all angles before I say it's a lie. Only something obvious like Soup's PGO claim in TGGL is going to make me say "That's a lie" immediately because of SWF game mechanics.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

J was using a lot of out of game reasons for his deflection. You did back him up by the very reasons I bolded. Why bother noting J was busy IRL unless you felt you needed to defend him on some level.

Now this is just stupid. I'm not going to sit back and let somebody place blame on somebody else for something that was out of there control. Yes, we posted a few times while we were studying, but, overall, we were studying and playing games for an extended period of time in which we couldn't really post. And, being on a computer at a friend's house is kind of awkward. I explained why I felt the need to defend him because it was a stupid reason. Stop ignoring things and focusing on what you can use against me. I'm really starting to dislike you.

Either you choose to say it because you were trying to help a scummate or you did it because on some level you agreed with his reasons. You decided to post that out of game information, so you must of felt it was relevant.

It was relevant because I'm not going to let Kuzi think somebody is scummy for a reason that was out of that person's control. When did I say I agree with his reasons besides when he was getting attacked because he couldn't post when we were studying?

When I was scum in D&D, my brother Ryunnosuke and I were both scummates. It was extremely easy for the two of us to communicate in person to collaborate our next move. Having a RL scummate is not impossible and it would provide the perfect excuse to work together when you were studying together. It was pretty obvious the two of you had plenty of opportunities to post during your study sessions.

I really wish people would stop using their own meta to explain why I'm scum. It's happening so often that is not even funny anymore. It's stupid as ****. As per the last part, just look at my first paragraph.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Sang
I'll get to your question once I ISO you and pin down whether you're scum or not. Anyway, in the meantime why don't you tell us what you think of my case on Tand?

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

I like many of your points on things. I also feel like her vote on J and wanting to put him at L-1 seems like distancing as well. I'll have to do my own re-read before I can actually call her scum but I don't like her all that much.

@Tanny. Do you think I'm scum, or do you think I'm town but just dislike my "defense" of J?

@Kuzi. What are your scum picks for toDay?

 

[Tandora]

@Tanny. Do you think I'm scum, or do you think I'm town but just dislike my "defense" of J?

Until I see something that makes me feel otherwise in an ISO, I think you're scum which is why I mentioned my dislike of your defense of J in the same post as me thinking AM is scum.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Was gone all weekend. Have a meeting today. Know that there is no reason not to lynch Tandora today.

 

[July]

@Nich: I read your case and I agree that Tandora, I agree that the post you cite for scum distancing is not only scummy, but its one of the few times until J is the certain lynch that Tandora confronts J, the rest of it is just dancing around the issue. Also agreed with the fact that she never pushed AM or any other scum picks hard.

Vote: Tandora

Tandora lynch toDay, Sang needs to be looked into toMorrow.

Also V/LA from now until September 5th

Mostly limited activity during that time but there is a two day camping trip in there where I will have NO internet access. I will be on sometime before the deadline.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Vote: Tandora

Read Nich's case. Don't clear him for it. If Tandora flips scum, then lynch Nich. No regrets.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

People that don't post today will receive official reminders.

---

Voted | Voter(s) | Votes/Lynch
Tandora | JTB, Nicholas, July, AggressiveMediation | 4 / 5

---​

Not Voting: Tandora, th3kuzinator, Hilt, SangfroidWarrior
Takes 5/8 to lynch

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Until I see something that makes me feel otherwise in an ISO, I think you're scum which is why I mentioned my dislike of your defense of J in the same post as me thinking AM is scum.

*shrugg* I didn't see it that way, being as I asked for clarification. So, 'kay then.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@AM (or Ryker): Do you sincerely feel that Nich is scum? If so, could you explain why? Or do you just dislike it?

And, L-1. I'd vote for Tandora but I wanna see Nich's case on me as well as Tanny's. July, I look forward to your's sometime toMorrow.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Seph, I'll try to get back to you come Wednesday, as I have an important prelim exam tomorrow. Sorry for the wait.

 

[Tandora]

VOTE RYKER

He's scum, but I doubt anyone is going to listen to me since I have yet to lynch him in any game I've said he was scum.

1) That fake math phrasing he did as AM early game.
2) Complete lack of leadership all game.
3) Is going to vote agreeing with Nich but says that doesn't clear Nich and when I flip town you should lynch Nich? Seriously? That doesn't even make any sense.
4) Had no problem with putting me at L-1 despite disagreeing with my opinion about putting J at L-1. Is no one concerned I'll flip out and self-hammer?

Before I am lynched, please go back and reread J's interactions with AM.

My claim is Baku - Vanilla townie

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

@Tanny. J just usually does that as scum. Thanks for the case on AM, finally. Could you give me your scum reads as well? I understand AM but what is the other and why? Excluding me, that is, because I'm still waiting on that case.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Meh, let me clarify. Exluding me because I'm waiting on the case for that and because I want to know who else you will look at when I flip town.

 

[Tandora]

Meh, let me clarify. Exluding me because I'm waiting on the case for that and because I want to know who else you will look at when I flip town.

You're not even on the table for anyone else, so why the need to include "when I flip town"? It's like you're making sure to say "I"m town" at every chance you get.

You're playing like J asking over and over "Who's town?" because you're trying to figure out who to night kill next. I've given two scum reads, which is reasonable for this stage in the game. You want more, you do an ISO or ask specific questions, not "Who do you trust?" when you claim you think I'm scum.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

JTB and kuzinator will receive reminders.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

You're not even on the table for anyone else, so why the need to include "when I flip town"? It's like you're making sure to say "I"m town" at every chance you get.

When else have I done anything like that? I just know that you are adamant that I am scum so I want your other scum pick that isn't me. Why not just answer the question?

You're playing like J asking over and over "Who's town?" because you're trying to figure out who to night kill next. I've given two scum reads, which is reasonable for this stage in the game. You want more, you do an ISO or ask specific questions, not "Who do you trust?" when you claim you think I'm scum.

I play like J because him and I play IRL mafia together and I've just picked up a few of his quirks, regardless of whether or not he was town. To me, knowing if this person trusts this other person can be completely useless. But, if done the right way, you can start to figure things out. I may think you are scum, but that doesn't mean that is set in stone. If you die and end up being town, then I will know who you trusted and who you didn't, which could help town. The fact that you aren't giving me anything about who you do actually trust and who you don't seems scummy in my opinion. The fact that you are avoiding my questions and instead are becoming defensive is scummy in my opinion. Why not just give me two people you think could be scum not including me, since you haven't been so forthcoming with your case on me. If you're not going to make a case on me just say so and make your points somewhere else.

In other words... Just make some solid case as to why you think some person could be scum and I might reconsider. Because, up until now, they have not seemed very powerful and forceful.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

No responses from JTB and kuz. Looking for replacements.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Kuz is V/LA at the moment. JTB was on last night.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

@AM (or Ryker): Do you sincerely feel that Nich is scum? If so, could you explain why? Or do you just dislike it?

Nich is scum if, and only if, Tandora flips scum.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Before I am lynched, please go back and reread J's interactions with AM.

tl;dr Tandora asks townies to help her. Enlighten me on what that analysis would reveal.

 

[JTB]

aye im here gheb

I'm just waiting on kuz to come back and give his thoughts.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Nabe has signed up as a replacement. He will be there if needed. Thanks a lot.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

New deadline has been set to Monday the 5th September

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Going to try to catch up and stuff today. Had a busy week so far, so I apologize.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Ryker, back it up. Why am I scum if and only if Tand is scum?

@Tand
Claim please. Do you have any sort of defense against my case?

@Sang
I haven't forgotten you, don't worry...

 

[Tandora]

Ryker, back it up. Why am I scum if and only if Tand is scum?

@Tand
Claim please. Do you have any sort of defense against my case?

@Sang
I haven't forgotten you, don't worry...

I already claimed. Why don't you actually read my posts?

VOTE RYKER

He's scum, but I doubt anyone is going to listen to me since I have yet to lynch him in any game I've said he was scum.

1) That fake math phrasing he did as AM early game.
2) Complete lack of leadership all game.
3) Is going to vote agreeing with Nich but says that doesn't clear Nich and when I flip town you should lynch Nich? Seriously? That doesn't even make any sense.
4) Had no problem with putting me at L-1 despite disagreeing with my opinion about putting J at L-1. Is no one concerned I'll flip out and self-hammer?

Before I am lynched, please go back and reread J's interactions with AM.

My claim is Baku - Vanilla townie

 

[Nicholas1024]

Apologies, it's been a busy couple of days for me. Anyway, do you have a defense or not?

 

[Nicholas1024]

Anyway, looking back over the early game, here's a bunch of Sang/J interaction that bugs me.

J: He also comes in simply asking questions, but I think that's just how he normally plays when nothing really is going on. He's being very hardheaded wrt Dad's posts. He doesn't seem to get his logic. Not a scum tell, but interesting. His votes have pretty good logic behind them. I don’t know if I completely agree, but, at the moment, he’s not just looking for silly reasons. I dislike, though, that he assumes that, since people have the same reads as him, they have to be town. Town.

AggressiveMeditation: He comes in saying that he's been putting this game onto the backburner because of Time Travelers. Doesn't give any information. Then, coming back near 194, his posts are confusing, and yet they kind of make sense. Am I the only one confused by his posting habits? Either way, he seems pretty town to me. I like some of his stances on certain people, but there's not much to go on today. Also, he seems very open with his stances, not really waiting for people and taking initiative in saying who he wants dead. I'm not sure if that's a town tell or not... Town, regardless.

Thing #1: You dislike J going "Same read = town", but AM does that a bunch in their posts, and you don't even mention it, in fact saying you like some of his stances. Why?

@J. This is where I got my "same reads = town" thing. I don't really see where I put words into your mouth...



I understand you also say that you haven't seen anything scummy from him, but it strikes me as odd. Don't worry. You're still safe as town in my eyes. I was just wonderring something.

Why would you clarify "You're still safe as town"? This bit is really bugging me, because it seems out of place regardless of alignment! As town there's no point in clarifying until later, as it cuts out any pressure to help give a better clue as to alignment. On the other hand, J flipped mafia, so why act so blatantly odd towards your scum buddy?

That last sentence in particular is the main thing that's causing me to agonize over my read on you. As town the actions feel really odd and buddy-ish, but why on earth would you blatantly buddy up to your scum buddy?

I really don't like this line Sang.

What? Why? I was being cocky. You know? A joke...? Oh, well.

With that part, I was just wonderring why you had said what you had said. It had nothing to do with my read on you really. I just disliked that idea, I guess, that people that had the same reads as you were town as well. At least, that's what I got from it. And, no. It was only from that read because that's all you had said it on. Sorry for not clarifying.

All of this seems really non-confrontational and "Oh no, it was just a minor thing".

WRT AM, I like their reads. Not because they are the same as mine, but because they are very open with them and don't wait for people to ask their opinions on things. Their posting style turned me off at first, and I still don't completely understand it, but you can find the intent behind it. But, me having no questions for them doesn't mean they are flatly town for me. You and Dad are about as much town to me as AM is, AM maybe even a little less. But, there's just nothing that has stuck out to me that is completely scummy or I need to inquire about. I will do a re-read of their posts later in the Day, though, to see if I may have missed something that needs to be taken care of. What are your thoughts on AM

This also strikes me as odd. AM had not given reasoning much at all D1 aside from that little rap thing with kuz. What they did give was essentially "Your reads are different from ours, dislike", which you were on J about, but not AM.

Null-leaning scum.

I don't like you this game Sang. There is something up that I can't place my finger on....it's bugging me really badly, but I will be back after I re-read your posts in a sec. Till then I'm leaving this here.

FoS: SangfroidWarrior

Let's make this like our IRL mafia games, tell me why I shouldn't want to lynch you. Do you think you know why I have a lingering suspicion of you atm?

I truthfully don't have any idea. And... I was making this like IRL games. I thought...? If I'm playing differently than I usually play, please, explain it to me. Maybe because I've never replaced in before and am trying to get my bearings? IDK. I'm not gonna use the "I'm a noob, take it easy on me" excuse. You shouldn't want to lynch me because I feel I could really help town try to figure out who the mafia is and take them out. I'll just have to try harder to convince you of that. Is there anything that you would like me to clear up? Becuase you obviously felt wary of me from my earlier post.

I need to distance myself from you, honestly. I'm not sure how much of my trust of you comes from the fact that I've played IRL mafia with you so much, but I am beginning to realize I may be biased and will have to do a re-read of you to make sure that I'm not trusting you just because I think I know you. Argh. This is odd playing with you, just saying.

Either way, could you explain your read on AM, rather than just state it?

Agreed and I think this is where some of my dislike may stem from. You are playing differently then what I would expect of you, and also knowing your train of thought based on your newbie game (congratz on your MVP just btw. ). You are definitely a slot that is gonna perplex me more then I had originally thought.



I don't like his reads for one, I don't feel he has explained his reads but merely just stated them (out of nowhere and pretty bold), and I don't agree to his push on Seik. Plus the way he dips in and out of inactivity only to pop in and comment on things, but never fully explain himself bugs me.

This is the rest of the Sang/J interaction. The whole thing seems blasted odd on Sang's part, but I have trouble seeing why he'd be mafia. As indy it makes more sense though, and IIRC Gheb really loved the indy sibling pair in Tom's FFVII (I think that's the right number) mafia, and has used a variant before in the past. (TV-allstars mafia was the game.) I still think Tand's the best lynch for today, but I've got my eye on you, Sang.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Thing #1: You dislike J going "Same read = town", but AM does that a bunch in their posts, and you don't even mention it, in fact saying you like some of his stances. Why?

Okay, first of all, was AM ever as blatant with the "same read = town" thing as J was? Because I didn't see it. Maybe it's just that his fake posting restriction was too hard for me to understand (and at times it was) but I didn't see him doing that, especially not as blatant as J did it. Also, I don't know if I said I liked some of his stances so much as I liked the way he went with his stances. But, after a re-read, even that kind of changed. He did say at some points that he liked the way somebody was thinking or disliked it, but he never seemed to call somebody town or scum because if it, which, to me, J did.

Why would you clarify "You're still safe as town"? This bit is really bugging me, because it seems out of place regardless of alignment! As town there's no point in clarifying until later, as it cuts out any pressure to help give a better clue as to alignment. On the other hand, J flipped mafia, so why act so blatantly odd towards your scum buddy?

As I clarified to J, this was a sarcastic joke directed towards him. As you can see, he did eventually catch my attention as being scummy. I don't see how me saying that is any different from somebody else saying that they think such and such a person is town. I was asking him a question that I was curious to the answer to but I didn't really think it made him scummy at the time.

That last sentence in particular is the main thing that's causing me to agonize over my read on you. As town the actions feel really odd and buddy-ish, but why on earth would you blatantly buddy up to your scum buddy?

"...why on earth would you blatantly buddy up to your scum buddy?" Do you know how much WIFOM is in that? First of all, him and I are IRL friends. I was being buddy-ish because, although I knew to be wary of him, he's still the only person I really trust and know and it clouded my judgement. But, I wasn't exactly "buddy-ing" him. I was sticking with him and trusting him a little bit, but I wasn't voting for people just because he wanted me to or thinking people were scum just because he did. I have my own reasons for thinking who I think are scum. I could easily be scum and buddying him because people would find it odd but think that I wouldn't be stupid enough (or smart enough in this case) to blatantly buddy my scum member. Or, it could be that we talk outside of the thread on a daily basis and have been friends for... over a year, I think, and, because of that, I trust him even though I shouldn't.

All of this seems really non-confrontational and "Oh no, it was just a minor thing".

Because I had him as town and didn't feel the need to push it. I wasn't belittling my comment, just the joke. In fact, looking back on it, the J I know probably would have pushed that point harder instead of just brushing it off when I said it was a joke.

This also strikes me as odd. AM had not given reasoning much at all D1 aside from that little rap thing with kuz. What they did give was essentially "Your reads are different from ours, dislike", which you were on J about, but not AM.

I realized that after going back and looking things over. With J, he was liking people because he liked their reads. AM didn't have much reasoning, agreed. But, he never seemed to use that as the sole basis for his reads. As I said, they gave their reads and never had to wait for people to ask what they thought about something to push it.

This is the rest of the Sang/J interaction. The whole thing seems blasted odd on Sang's part, but I have trouble seeing why he'd be mafia. As indy it makes more sense though, and IIRC Gheb really loved the indy sibling pair in Tom's FFVII (I think that's the right number) mafia, and has used a variant before in the past. (TV-allstars mafia was the game.) I still think Tand's the best lynch for today, but I've got my eye on you, Sang.

Having your eye on me is perfectly fine; I'd be wary if you didn't because you would have gone from suspicious to clear and I know I have done some weird stuff. Either way, let me get this straight. You aren't calling me scum right now, you are calling me indy? All this based solely on my interactions with J? Is there anything else that I have done that you think is an indication of me being scum, or indy?

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Sang
Don't worry, I'll keep looking through your posts. Basically, your actions with J feel like scum buddying up to a strong townie with stuff like "Don't worry, you're town", but of course that can't fit with you being mafia because J has flipped mafia. As indy it makes sense, though your story is also possible.

Additionally, what's your stance on Ryker now? If Tand flips scum, who should we look at tomorrow? What if it's a town flip?

Also, I chuckled at the "Do you know how much WIFOM that is" bit, do you realize the statement you were arguing with is a point AGAINST you being mafia?

 

[July]

Vote: Tandora

Read Nich's case. Don't clear him for it. If Tandora flips scum, then lynch Nich. No regrets.

I don't plan to clear Nich for his case, but I do like him better than Tandora and Sang at this point. Sang had the most blatant connection with J, but I do realize that I have to look at Nich more as well, but during the Night/after my v/la going to have to re-read everyone.

@AM (or Ryker): Do you sincerely feel that Nich is scum? If so, could you explain why? Or do you just dislike it?

And, L-1. I'd vote for Tandora but I wanna see Nich's case on me as well as Tanny's. July, I look forward to your's sometime toMorrow.

No problem.

VOTE RYKER

He's scum, but I doubt anyone is going to listen to me since I have yet to lynch him in any game I've said he was scum.

1) That fake math phrasing he did as AM early game.
2) Complete lack of leadership all game.
3) Is going to vote agreeing with Nich but says that doesn't clear Nich and when I flip town you should lynch Nich? Seriously? That doesn't even make any sense.
4) Had no problem with putting me at L-1 despite disagreeing with my opinion about putting J at L-1. Is no one concerned I'll flip out and self-hammer?

Before I am lynched, please go back and reread J's interactions with AM.

My claim is Baku - Vanilla townie

1) Why is this scummy?
2) Is this based on meta for why Ryker is scummy? If not, then why do you find his lack of leadership scummy?
3) This is a pretty shallow point. There is the possibility of scum pushing or bussing each other, it's not wise to clear someone based on a case you agree with. Having a town read on someone after a case you agree with and clearing them are two very different things.
4) Different situations, I don't want you to self-hammer but really at this point we are just waiting for Kuz's input.

 

[SangfroidWarrior]

Additionally, what's your stance on Ryker now? If Tand flips scum, who should we look at tomorrow? What if it's a town flip?

I will have to get back to you once I do a re-read because I kind of remember a few things that are pertinent to me answering this question and I can't seem to remember them. Regardless of whether Tand flips scum or not I still want to look more into AM but people have been so nonexistant that they are the only ones that come to mind. Right now, Ryker seems null but I'm saying that because I honestly cannot remember anything from him. If you don't mind a bit of a wait (like a day or two) I will get back to this question after a re-read and answer it better.

Also, I chuckled at the "Do you know how much WIFOM that is" bit, do you realize the statement you were arguing with is a point AGAINST you being mafia?

I know, but I still feel like any argument you try to get out of that will be WIFOM. I wasn't arguing with it because it cleared me but becasue, to me, there is no solid argument you can get from that line of thinking.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Dunno if Kuz will be back before deadline or not. He's generally active on the boards and on Skype and I haven't heard jack **** from him since he announced limited access despite the fact that he's supposed to be my hydra mate.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Voted | Voter(s) | Votes/Lynch
Tandora | JTB, Nicholas, July, AggressiveMediation | 4 / 5
AggressiveMediation | Tandora | 1 / 5

---​

Not Voting: th3kuzinator, Hilt, SangfroidWarrior
Takes 5/8 to lynch

Dunno if Kuz will be back before deadline or not. He's generally active on the boards and on Skype and I haven't heard jack **** from him since he announced limited access despite the fact that he's supposed to be my hydra mate.

Nabe will replace him if he doesn't come back soon.