Falcon vs Sheik

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

Some of you know me, most of you don`t. I`m an ex-ganon main that switched to Captain Falcon about a year ago. Anyways, I`ve gotten pretty good at most of the matchups with falcon, and I posted this in Scar`s help thread but figured I would get even more help with this if I made my own topic.

I have sooo much trouble beating sheiks. I cannot beat a good sheik. An immediate example would be Kira from California. I played his sheik last weekend and I could not, for the life of me, win a match. I get so ***** by sheik it isn`t even funny. Whereas I`m able to put up fights against known players who main falco, fox, marth, and peach, I CANNOT fight a good sheik. I know what combos to do to her and at what percent (for the most part, however any combo advice would be good), but I think my weakness lies in being able to escape her combos and my approach. I can SDI fairly well so I don`t need someone coming in here talking down to me like I`m a noob, I am not.

I am requesting that someone who knows what they`re talking about give me an in depth explanation of the matchup, being particularly specific around the approach and evading sheiks combos.

-Thankyou

 

[I.B]

do you have any recent vids? It would help alot

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

do you have any recent vids? It would help alot

not vs sheik

I have some **** videos of me playing vs a local falco recently, where I play ****.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Byuukai#p/u/4/xq9x6LA-DGU

http://www.youtube.com/user/Byuukai#p/u/3/aE-lbwzaPwM

 

[weon - X]

I've allways thaught this match up was impossible... even marth has a better chance, good luck noob-king.

did you have any trouble escaping his tech chases? if so then that meens your half way there :D

 

[Reaver197]

I think if someone had come up with a solid way to approach Sheiks, this wouldn't be such a bad match-up.

All I can say is that I find it much easier to make a Sheik approach me than to have to approach her.

 

[Get@Will]

xXx-NoobKing-xXx !?!

I'm pretty **** bad at this matchup too . Nair is the most common approach, but she can just be gay and CC that **** and grab you. What's gayer is she can do this to pretty high %. Dairs/knee are good coz it stuns her enough for you to get a grab off then tech chase her skinny ***. Just be careful with it though, cause her stupid f-tilt will eat through it. (Stupid f-tilt. Who the hell thought of this move?) You gotta be pretty **** aggressive with this matchup. If playing on a stage with platforms, just to abuse them. With Falcon's speed, you can move around ALOT faster than she can on platforms.

WHAT THE HELL? I'M GIVING ADVICE TO ADAM!?! Dunno if my words have any depth to them, so someone come prove me wrong please.

 

[`DNS`]

Some of you know me, most of you don`t. I`m an ex-ganon main that switched to Captain Falcon about a year ago. Anyways, I`ve gotten pretty good at most of the matchups with falcon, and I posted this in Scar`s help thread but figured I would get even more help with this if I made my own topic.

I have sooo much trouble beating sheiks. I cannot beat a good sheik. An immediate example would be Kira from California. I played his sheik last weekend and I could not, for the life of me, win a match. I get so ***** by sheik it isn`t even funny. Whereas I`m able to put up fights against known players who main falco, fox, marth, and peach, I CANNOT fight a good sheik. I know what combos to do to her and at what percent (for the most part, however any combo advice would be good), but I think my weakness lies in being able to escape her combos and my approach. I can SDI fairly well so I don`t need someone coming in here talking down to me like I`m a noob, I am not.

I am requesting that someone who knows what they`re talking about give me an in depth explanation of the matchup, being particularly specific around the approach and evading sheiks combos.

-Thankyou

Wait, what?
Sheik can combo?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Her tech chase is so inescapable it might as well be a combo.

 

[tubes]

Except most combos are more escapable than Sheik's tech chase.

 

[Ryzol_]

Can't CF outcamp sheik, and not approach? I mean sheik has needles, but are most sheik players patient enough to NEVER approach CF the entire match?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

your friends might approach you, but then you go to tournament and start playing real players who don't **** around, and lose. Its better not to build your style and winning capabilities on an assumption that "most players won't do X so I never have to learn to beat it".

This is not the same as baiting sheik to attack (which is a really good idea, if you can do it right)

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

Will you gave the best advice so far but I knew that stuff allready. I need super specific advice on the approach >_<

thanks anyways guys

EDIT: I do tend to get impatient and approach sheik carelessly, I guess stages with platforms are preferable?

 

[_KuyaSombreo_]

At least with platforms there are more options of what you can do to bait shiek.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Can't CF outcamp sheik, and not approach? I mean sheik has needles, but are most sheik players patient enough to NEVER approach CF the entire match?

You'd be amazed at how gay Sheiks can be when there's money on the line.

 

[TheManaLord]

tech roll away into raptor boost or fsmash the lean property escapes jc grab sometimes

actually anywhere tech to raptor boost might escape her. but thats desperation for escaping tech chases

as per approach approach with dd grab and stuff and do safe aerials

combos are easy

do dthrow chains at low percents you can dthrow dthrow on bad di or away di you can uair regrab or nair regrab

at 90%~ uthrow knee works and the range is pretty big

at mid percents uthrow will combo into uair and then do more uairs or knee

idk some otehr stuff too

 

[SuperMatt]

sometumes tech in place into a buffer roll will help escape the regrab tech-chase

also, pretending to approach in the form of dash dancing close to the sheik, can be better than approaching...because they will start to get nervous and throw out attacks

 

[KirbyKaze]

I don't know if this would work with Falcon but at low percents the Ice Climbers CC Sheik's F-tilt into dash forward grab (I guess with Falcon you'd have to JC grab maybe?).

It might be worth looking into. Falcon takes a longer time to be knocked over by Sheik's F-tilt so it might work. And ICs have awful grab range so I don't see why it wouldn't work for him since his grab range is about as bad but he's much faster.

Escaping her combos is just DIing all her launchers away from her so you get far away. Avoiding her tech chasing you when you hit the ground is the tricky part, I think.

 

[SpaceFalcon]

I will give you 16 hours shiek practice

!!!!!!!

POUND 4 TRAINING WHERE YOU AT.

 

[jetfour]

If a Sheik is a certain level of competency, she will not lose in this match up in a set.

Spaced bairs help a lot. Master your dash dancing. Space extra carefully. Extra extra. A competent Sheik's grab is as deadly as one from Wobbles' icies.
If the Sheik is crouch happy, dairs work surprisingly well.

From 0% after the chain grab, techchase her like a spacie when she DIs too well to get chain grabbed with down throw. Force her to upB whenever you can, it's a free combo from then.

Platforms give Sheik more trouble techchasing. It's worse to get grabbed again than hit offstage at low percents.

Against a Sheik that is patient and knows what they are doing, the best option is to switch characters. Falcon is way too easy to techchase and edgeguard. Not even SS or Darkrain can handle a top-level Sheik.

Maybe some old Isai vids would help? Isaiiiiiiiiii mindgames

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

I'm a falcon main... although I have used fox in this matchup in the past. My fox is pretty garbs so I avoid switching to make up for a bad matchup. Thanks for the advice, some of you gave me insight into things I didn't know.

 

[Plairnkk]

watch scar, hes the hardest falcon for me as sheik right now. im rusty tho, a really legit sheik would prob never lose to falcon tbh

 

[Roneblaster]

i agree
granted i have a tiny amount of smash knowledge compared to high level players, but a very high level sheik will never lose a set to a very high level falcon

 

[NES n00b]

i agree
granted i have a tiny amount of smash knowledge compared to high level players, but a very high level sheik will never lose a set to a very high level falcon

Depends what you mean by high level. Darkrain beats every sheik, but m2k basically. A lot of falcons besides SS (haha ) beat tope and that guy is pretty good.

But yeah at TOP level not just high level probably impossible, but oh well.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

watch scar, hes the hardest falcon for me as sheik right now. im rusty tho, a really legit sheik would prob never lose to falcon tbh

Yah I'm gunna check out your matches vs scar tonight. See what I can pick up.

Depends what you mean by high level. Darkrain beats every sheik, but m2k basically. A lot of falcons besides SS (haha ) beat tope and that guy is pretty good.

But yeah at TOP level not just high level probably impossible, but oh well.

LOL @ random shot towards SS. All things aside though, I'm gunna work on this matchup specifically for Pound4

 

[legion598]

Nair is pretty much ur only approach but I wouldnt approach at all. In this match up its all about defense so u should DD way more than in other matches. If she starts to ruin your fun with needles just waveland onto a platform and continue your evasion from there. The most important part is not to get grabbed because once ur offstage you will die. Once u land a Nair or a grab u must capatalize on that grab shiek can be both up throw and down throw chain grabbed unless she DIs away in which case u just tech chase her with a **** combo. The final tip I have is when ur in a combo u should use more Uairs because they actually out range shieks Fair when ur under her and are more reliable

 

[Roneblaster]

NES nub you speak the truth, but i kept that Darkrain v M2K set from genesis in mind when i dubbed it "impossible"

 

[Tomacawk]

approaching sheik is really ****ing hard
if they're wd ftilt happy my best approach has been shield approach->wd oos->stuff
uair a lot when sheik's above you, don't go for a knee unless you're sure they'll still be in hit stun otherwise they'll nair/fair/dj out
the key is to get fear into the sheik player and have them lose composure
get in their face. once you get your first hit keep applying pressure. trap them near the ledge and try to bait rolls/whiffed aerials out of them

 

[ORLY]

The real trick is not letting Sheik get into the Dead Zone of Comboing. Anything above 120% or so and she's a royal pain to finish off. Always remember at what percentages what moves combo into kills and you should be okay!

o ya and she has needles too b carful

 

[BigD!!!]

matt r is right about dash dancing as close as possible, you need to make the sheik scared of you in order to create openings. it just doesnt cut it to stay far away and wait for sheik to approach you anymore, they just arent dumb enough

now i havent played the game in a couple months so i havent actually been able to test this out, but lately ive been thinking the best bet is to forego nairs in most situations and just knee for the approach. sheik has too much priority, even if a nair lands it will trade way too often and then it was worthless. none of sheiks moves arent worth trading a knee with, and since youre basically gambling every time you jump in there anyway, why not go for the actually useful knees and stomps?

this is kind of a "just might be crazy enough to work" idea, so let me know what you guys think/if it works at all

 

[harriettheguy]

I was thinking the same, BigD, about the gambling part. It's OK to get hit here and there, as long as you don't get controlled (and learn!). Crouch cancelling/SDI away (Especially during your own grabs) takes away her ftilt...get your hits in and see who can make the most out of their hits.

Also from experience, if they happen to mix in a little aggression with dash attack, you can defensively (DI away your dair) stomp her head to keep her in line, since her dash attack won't reach you, but she extends herself towards your long red hitbox.

check out my combo vid I posted in my sig it will show you everything.

and...Hi, noobking! Hope to play you again, I don't think I showed you my MOVES, only my pewpew shine.

 

[`DNS`]

I was thinking the same, BigD, about the gambling part. It's OK to get hit here and there, as long as you don't get controlled (and learn!). Crouch cancelling/SDI away (Especially during your own grabs) takes away her ftilt...get your hits in and see who can make the most out of their hits.

Also from experience, if they happen to mix in a little aggression with dash attack, you can defensively (DI away your dair) stomp her head to keep her in line, since her dash attack won't reach you, but she extends herself towards your long red hitbox.

check out my combo vid I posted in my sig it will show you everything.

and...Hi, noobking! Hope to play you again, I don't think I showed you my MOVES, only my pewpew shine.

durrrr that's a brawl video

 

[NES n00b]

LOL @ random shot towards SS. All things aside though, I'm gunna work on this matchup specifically for Pound4

That **** ain't random.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

That **** ain't random.

oh snap son! I look forward to playing you at pound 4 >=)

 

[Hax]

your falcon is mad good based on those vids vs the falco, just try to be cleaner with your dashes and trickier when techchasing. sheik can't really be techchased unless she techs in place; its good to trick her into doing so and then follow up with stomp -> jab reset -> knee etc.

as lambchops once put it, falcon has the authority in approaching if you DD camp in front of her. she can't needle because its lag lets you stomp/knee her if she misses. bait the spotdodge and dash in with a grab and dthrow at low percents; at 30ish percent uthrow uair regrab, at even higher percents uthrow chains into alot of **** lol. her weakness is from below, so whenever she jumps hit her with a uair. you have to treat her like IC's though... grab = death for falcon from a good sheik. thankfully its easier for you to land a grab than it is for her.

 

[ChivalRuse]

If playing on a stage with platforms, just to abuse them. With Falcon's speed, you can move around ALOT faster than she can on platforms.

LOLOL. No offense, but watch Reno's Sheik sometime. Plank's even. Her platform game is definitely superior to Falcon's. Sorry, but dropthrough fair + run off bair + platform needles > Falcon's few and far between bair and uair shenanigans.

Granted, SH uair from below platforms beats a lot of what Sheik can do on them. But in terms of speed and versatility in platform camping/other usages/maneuverabililty, Sheik wins hands down.

 

[NES n00b]

New info, do the upsmash combo. That **** *****.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRZxfph6e64#movie_player 1:29

 

[Strong Badam]

i tried fighting z's sheik w/ falcon once
it didn't really work.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

New info, do the upsmash combo. That **** *****.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRZxfph6e64#movie_player 1:29

LOLOL 1:30 - 1:37 was hilarious XD

your falcon is mad good based on those vids vs the falco, just try to be cleaner with your dashes and trickier when techchasing. sheik can't really be techchased unless she techs in place; its good to trick her into doing so and then follow up with stomp -> jab reset -> knee etc.

as lambchops once put it, falcon has the authority in approaching if you DD camp in front of her. she can't needle because its lag lets you stomp/knee her if she misses. bait the spotdodge and dash in with a grab and dthrow at low percents; at 30ish percent uthrow uair regrab, at even higher percents uthrow chains into alot of **** lol. her weakness is from below, so whenever she jumps hit her with a uair. you have to treat her like IC's though... grab = death for falcon from a good sheik. thankfully its easier for you to land a grab than it is for her.

Hax, my falcon is mad better than what you saw, but I appreciate the compliment ^_^. I see what your saying, I'll work on DD camping sheik more as a first. Thanks alot for the advice.

 

[Clockmire]

I remember Magus posting somewhere that if you shield Sheik's ftilt, you can Up B out of shield.

I tried it. It worked : )

Thought this might help.

 

[xXx-NoobKing-xXx]

Thanks but that sounds hella risky, lol.