Falco... top tier in both Melee and Brawl.

[saviorslegacy]

What makes Falco different? He has been top tier in both of his Smash games.

IMO He has a certain balance of projectiles, anti prejectiler (shine lol), power, a spike, mad combo/string skills (deppends on the version) and a decent recovery if you know what to do. That's my opinion. What's yours?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

To me, Falco is different from everyone else because of his versitlity. He can camp against people, play a keep away game with his Specials, be aggresive through the uses of pressure play and he can be defensive through excellent spacing. Also because of all this you can mix up falco's gameplay and be a bit random. The only let down is the oh so predictable recover that is extremely limited. Also he is good in the air.

First Post

 

[Mi1oo]

To bad falco is top tier for different reason in brawl L

 

[Kitamerby]

He got severe buffs in Brawl that evened out his nerfs from Melee. :\

He just plain has good stats in both games, as well as special combos and lasers.

 

[J4pu]

If it wasn't for the CG i don't think he would be any better than high tier in brawl.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

If it wasn't for the CG i don't think he would be any better than high tier in brawl.

I think Falco is good enough without the CG, it is just a nice insurance policy should you fall behind in a stock or something. If the lasers stun effect had been taken away than I would for sure think he would fall to a much lower category.

 

[J4pu]

Top Tier <-----Falco now
High Tier <----- Falco w/o CG
Mid Tier <------Falco w/o lasers
Low Tier <------Falco w/o CG or lasers (but high in low tier)
Bottom Tier

 

[saviorslegacy]

Yeah I agree. With out his CG or laser stun he would kinda suck. :/

Ummmmm..... what about Dair? If they take out our Spike we is screwed! T-T

 

[Gishnak]

Lol, you guys are nuts. Falco wouldn't be low tier without lasers and cg. Could he still dthrow-> dair? If he could still set up legit tech chasing, Falco would still be high, maybe the top end of mid.

His jab is ownage, is jab combo is ownage, boost pivot grab, his bair and dair own. His nair good shield pressure. His fsmash has a HUGE hitbox and is fast for the amount of range it offers. His grab is fast and has good range. His utilt and ftilt are also really good..

Yeah, the lasers are nice, but he's still good without them.

 

[§witch]

I couldn`t use falco without his lasers.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Falco is top tier even without the CG imo. I think he's the 3rd best character in the game after Snake and MK. Yea I think him > D3 + G&W.

What makes him good? Well as mentioned before he can camp like a b*tch, and do all kind of gay stuff like hit + run. His comboes are sexy but what nobody mentioned yet is how fast he is. Imo he's tied with Diddy and MK for the highest battle speed overall. AC aerials -> jabs are way too good especially with nair and dair. It's just hardcore pressure and it's just amazingly fast - no startup or ending lags omfg yeah he pwnzzz

 

[Blistering Speed]

Falco is top tier even without the CG imo. I think he's the 3rd best character in the game after Snake and MK. Yea I think him > D3 + G&W.

What makes him good? Well as mentioned before he can camp like a b*tch, and do all kind of gay stuff like hit + run. His comboes are sexy but what nobody mentioned yet is how fast he is. Imo he's tied with Diddy and MK for the highest battle speed overall. AC aerials -> jabs are way too good especially with nair and dair. It's just hardcore pressure and it's just amazingly fast - no startup or ending lags omfg yeah he pwnzzz

Hmm, you may be stretching it abit with G&W but I do know exactly what you mean. N Air>Jab>Grab>D Throw>DI Follow D Air> Tech chase.

Crazy speed.

 

[B0mbe1c]

I couldn`t use falco without his lasers.

QFTMFT

Falco is decent w/o lasers, but they help Falco soooo much. :/

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Hmm, you may be stretching it abit with G&W but I do know exactly what you mean.

Nah gw is just ovedrrated. I dont think hes top5

 

[Blistering Speed]

Really? I know he runs very hot and cold, but his air game is broken, his smashes are ridiculously powerful (though admitted startup) a very good techchase, a solid ground and anti spam game (D Tilt and Bucket <3) and an ungimpable recovery. I don't see where he's over rated.

 

[8AngeL8]

@Gheb: How many good Game and Watches have you played? He's not in the same league as Meta Knight or Snake, but he's a really good character. I'd put him at 5th behind MK, Snake, DDD and Falco, but he's still top 5.

 

[JCav]

@Gheb: How many good Game and Watches have you played? He's not in the same league as Meta Knight or Snake, but he's a really good character. I'd put him at 5th behind MK, Snake, DDD and Falco, but he's still top 5.

ive have a friend who plays g&w at a high level adn ive also played noj (prolly the best g&w around) and im starting to agree with gheb

 

[Blistering Speed]

This is seriously coming from Falco mainers? When he's our worst matchup?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You just overrated him completely. The only broken aerial G&W has is his uair (no kidding). The turtle is about half as threatening as everybody says - DI it and he's open for anything. He has KO issues vs heavy and medium heavy characters, especially campy ones. How do you KO a character who lives in his shield when all your smashes take longer than 10 frames to come out? And his techchase...well first of all ive never seen it pulled off a lot and his grab sucks anyways.

I'm pretty sure Falco is better and he'll turn out to be the better character

 

[JCav]

This is seriously coming from Falco mainers? When he's our worst matchup?

sorry i am out of place here, this thread just caught my eye, cant argue g&w>falco. but id have to agree that g&w isnt as dominate than he was before.


buts thats just imo

 

[ExCeL 52]

I agree falco is really good but his .. Up b... omg....FAIL

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@Gheb: How many good Game and Watches have you played? He's not in the same league as Meta Knight or Snake, but he's a really good character. I'd put him at 5th behind MK, Snake, DDD and Falco, but he's still top 5.

I never said he wasnn't good. But Snake, MK, Falco, Diddy and D3 are better for sure. I'm also inclined to say that Marth and Wario have chances to tie with him.

ive have a friend who plays g&w at a high level adn ive also played noj (prolly the best g&w around) and im starting to agree with gheb

NoJ isn't "the best G&W around"...either way that's exactly what I mean: Once you learn how to deal with him it's not as bad as people think.

He hardly ***** anyone ... not even in mid tier

This is seriously coming from Falco mainers? When he's our worst matchup?

Yes G&W is Falco's worst match-up. But Falco is still a better character. His match-up's are good amounts better

sorry i am out of place here, this thread just caught my eye, cant argue g&w>falco. but id have to agree that g&w isnt as dominate than he was before.


buts thats just imo

I think G&W is underplayed atm. There are few G&Ws outside of MW which is where he's dominant. I think G&W needs more amazing players to represent him. The only one that comes to my mind is Hylian...

 

[Vonzar the Soulrender]

G&W is an incredible character, after having one of my friends pick him up I've come to understand how brutal he can be. My friend isn't all that good at the game in general and can still kick *** with G&W and I've fought several awesome G&W's online and I can only imagine what a skilled, and non lagged G&W can do to someone.

 

[Blistering Speed]

^^^and xYz. And no, D Air and N Air are both incredibly good aerials. G&W has a VERY good techchase, he should be getting atleast 20% from a grab if he's smart. Offstage F Airs, Sweetspot D Smashes or non sweetspot to gimp, combined with his very safe damage racking means KO issues aren't a big worry of G&W.

 

[B0mbe1c]

G&W can bucket Falco's lasers, then Dthrow -> Bucket for mindgames (<_<).
G&W is just... good.

 

[Tommy_G]

Except Up smash kills earlier than 3 lasers in a bucket.

 

[§witch]

He can only bucket if you mindlessly spam lasers lol. Don't, besides, baiting a bucket can just **** over the GnW sooo much, NoJ doesn't even use the bucket iirc.

 

[Mith_]

He can only bucket if you mindlessly spam lasers lol. Don't, besides, baiting a bucket can just **** over the GnW sooo much, NoJ doesn't even use the bucket iirc.

No, he doesn't bucket. I saw the vid saying why he doesn't use it, it was lol.

Anyways, Falco doesn't need a CG. As long as we can still follow up the D-Throw then its all good. He does need lasers though.

Also, I don't really see how you can punish a turtle if they space it correctly. DI away from it will give him even more space to react. Projectile, nvm

 

[A2ZOMG]

G&W's Bucket ***** Falco in the butt. Insurance against lasers is only icing on the cake. Bucket brake screws Falco and his low KO power over a lot. I should point out that one of Falco's biggest problems is that he isn't good at either edgeguarding or scoring KOs. (by the way, he's very good at gimping, but this is not the same as being good at edgeguarding)

The reason why B-air is good is because of what it does to shields, and because it is very difficult to dodge.

G&W can score KOs pretty easily with F-airs. Charge release on Smashes is also insane and extremely good on air dodges and spotdodges.

You can't hit him out of his Up-B, and his D-air can hit you out of your Up-B no matter what it is very reliably.

N-air, U-air, and Up-B make for some pretty broken juggling and edgecamping. If he reads an air dodge, and charges an Up-smash, it can kill you at ridiculously low percents.

Also, he has advantage vs DDD and ROB. Neither can kill him easily, and neither is particularly good at dealing damage to him either. He does better against Metaknight than the rest of the top tier cast except for Snake really.

Also lastly in teams, he's easily the best character in the game.

Really, G&W's main problem right now is that he's not popular with many top level players.

 

[§witch]

G&W's Bucket ***** Falco in the butt. Insurance against lasers is only icing on the cake. Bucket brake screws Falco and his low KO power over a lot. I should point out that one of Falco's biggest problems is that he isn't good at either edgeguarding or scoring KOs. (by the way, he's very good at gimping, but this is not the same as being good at edgeguarding)

The reason why B-air is good is because of what it does to shields, and because it is very difficult to dodge.

G&W can score KOs pretty easily with F-airs. Charge release on Smashes is also insane and extremely good on air dodges and spotdodges.

You can't hit him out of his Up-B, and his D-air can hit you out of your Up-B no matter what it is very reliably.

N-air, U-air, and Up-B make for some pretty broken juggling and edgecamping. If he reads an air dodge, and charges an Up-smash, it can kill you at ridiculously low percents.

Also, he has advantage vs DDD and ROB. Neither can kill him easily, and neither is particularly good at dealing damage to him either. He does better against Metaknight than the rest of the top tier cast except for Snake really.

Also lastly in teams, he's easily the best character in the game.

Really, G&W's main problem right now is that he's not popular with many top level players.

His main thing is there isn't much room for any deviations from a very predictable strategy. Which is why there aren't many GnW mainers out there. He's just going to drop on the tier list, as much as he has a solid moveset, great approaches, good KOing, good egeguarding, he's **** hard to play unpredictably.

 

[Denzi]

His main thing is there isn't much room for any deviations from a very predictable strategy. Which is why there aren't many GnW mainers out there. He's just going to drop on the tier list, as much as he has a solid moveset, great approaches, good KOing, good egeguarding, he's **** hard to play unpredictably.

Let's go with this.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I don't let G&W's bucket my lasers anyways (or at least try not to let him.) It's a simple stradegy... Do about 2 SHDL and he'll pull out his bucket. Now's your chamce to destroy him. Just change this around. It reall piss's players off. lol

 

[Gishnak]

Word up. I'm a gdub main that is now switching to falco.

Why? Falco has more potential. As said previously, gdub is too predictable. Against good players that know the match up, it is VERY difficult to score a KO. Good players will just wait in their shield, and not spot dodge and you can't land a smash. Unless the player is right in grab range already, they typically can avoid the grab, but even still, the grab doesn't lead to kills against good players typically.

Reading air dodges-> fair works okay, but many players/characters just don't air dodge predictably, and it's very difficult to land.

Gdub has too few mindgames. While gdub is very easy to use and tears up mediocre players, he has a very hard time against top players.

Bucket canceling is cool though.

 

[Samuelson]

His comboes are sexy but what nobody mentioned yet is how fast he is. Imo he's tied with Diddy and MK for the highest battle speed overall.

I think that a good Fox player is the fastest character in the game but Falco is still stupidly fast.

 

[A2ZOMG]

DDD is a more predictable character than G&W. But he's like the 3rd best character in the game. <_<

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think that a good Fox player is the fastest character in the game but Falco is still stupidly fast.

Fox isn't that fast. He falls fast and runs fast but in battle he's about average

DDD is a more predictable character than G&W. But he's like the 3rd best character in the game. <_<

DDD isn't actually 3rd best and he shouldn't be up there on the tier list. He's better than G&W though and certainly not nearly as predictable.

 

[A2ZOMG]

No, he's way more predictable. His entire strategy is shieldcamping into a grab and hoping for a lucky U-tilt or edgeguard.

The only reason he's better is because he has good shieldcamping (chaingrabs on over half the cast wtf and B-throw does 16%). And his edgeguarding is also one of the best in the game. He's a very simple character. More simple by far than G&W. It's just the little he is able to do is extremely ********.

G&W is predictable because most of his strategy is brickwalls, juggling, edgeguarding, and reading dodges.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

You know that this is ******** right? It's like saying "All G&W has to do is turtle and hope for a luck smash or edgeguard attempt."

DDD has also a very good bair an amazing ftilt a good projectile (with a disjointed hurtbox) and powerful smashes to punish mistakes.

It's not that easy.

The only reason he's better is because he has good shieldcamping (chaingrabs on over half the cast wtf and B-throw does 16%). And his edgeguarding is also one of the best in the game. He's a very simple character. More simple by far than G&W. It's just the little he is able to do is extremely ********.

Yea D3 takes little skill
But so does G&W

 

[A2ZOMG]

DDD's B-air is only good offstage 90% of the time. His F-tilt is good, but not amazing in anything except range. His projectile is OK. And it's extremely obvious when he's going to use it.

G&W doesn't rely on back air as much as he relies on juggling his opponent effectively and punishing as they approach with D-tilt, Up-B, and other attacks.

G&W takes more skill to use because he has a huge emphasis on smart juggling with U-air, Up-B, N-air, and U-throw regrabs. He has to be smart with charged Smashes too, knowing when his opponent will dodge and when he can be near them.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I lol about how this started as a "Why Falco has been top tier" to "G&W pwns Falco cause of Bucket" and then "Who is better, D3 or G&W?" lol anyways

I say they both take some skill to use. Cause if D3 was that easy to use I would main him... but I suck with D3... and G&W. I prefer Snake because he's a real challenge to use and he isn't predictable. This is also the same reason I main Falco. YA HEARIN MEH ANGEL!?!?!?