~ Fairy Fountain Research Thread: buhbye ol' chum ~

[Ochobobo]

Oh never mind it looks like he posted that on every character's research and AT threads, lolol.

I just looked around and saw he posted the right link on one of them: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8104088&postcount=14

edit: Wow, it reminds me of this video, lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP24KR2nOzg

We've already discussed Pikachu in the teams thread haven't we?

 

[Brinzy]

Pikachu is so dynamic...

Unfortunately I can't really see anything coming from this for Zelda. Would LOVE to be proven wrong though...

 

[Legendary Pikachu]

Oh man... total my bad on teh 404... above link UPDATED.

Sorry guys for the trouble... finally updated all the bad links. Z for Zelda... lol. Hope you guys enjoy.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

We've already discussed Pikachu in the teams thread haven't we?

Yep. We can rediscuss him later if need arises, though.

As for this AT, it's certainly very interesting. Sadly I don't see it being much use for Zelda though. Her spike is too hard to sweetspot to work well in this , same with LKs. Of course you could still try to go for Uair or edgeguard with Nair and NL, but after that Zelda would need to use FW and would be left wide open.

 

[choknater]

ahahaha i was just about to post about that team technique in the sheik boards

 

[Kataefi]

I've decided to redo this thread. It's going to look amazing by next week.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Promises promises... Let's see if you can keep them

Spoiler

jk

 

[choknater]

kataefi and kaylo are cool mods

 

[KayLo!]

kataefi and kaylo are cool mods

Why, thank ya! Kataefi is 10x cooler than I am, though.

Posting my to-do list here so I can keep it updated.... and maybe having it here will motivate me more. It's sorta kinda on-topic, lol.

- Download PSA & use it to finish complete data for all moves
- Update Sexy Poses! thread (next move: nair)
- Finish Pika/Zelda matchup summary
- Finish combo list
- Send PM to Bobby re: Zelda guide
- Test SDI effects and trip rates for dtilt (latter might be in PSA?)

Slavedriver Kata, if you have anything else you want me to add to my list, might as well post it now while I have tons to do anyway. x.o

 

[Kataefi]

I always nuuu u wuv'd meee kaywoo!

I might just jump on the bandwagon and start calling you queen latifah if you keep up to schedule. We all know you'd love that

~~

I did a bit of testing on roll lengths that you can find in the OP for those interested in the tech chasing behind trips. Here are the roll lengths from shortest to longest (In each group the shortest is on the left, longest on the right):

(pikachu's icon just doesn't show up properly >.>)

List of rolls from shortest to longest:

Very Short Rolls



Short Rolls



Mid Rolls

:shiek:

Mid-Long Rolls



Long Rolls

You go glen coco

 

[KayLo!]

(pikachu's icon just doesn't show up properly >.>)

Put in some spaces between icons. You have too many characters in a row. (It's one of SWF's ways to prevent spam.)



It's "pikachu2" btw. =X

The "pikachu" one is ugly.

And if you call me Queen Latifah, I'll curbstomp your nuts. =D

 

[Half-Split Soul]

- Update Sexy Poses! thread (next move: nair)

That reminds me, I must update the team thread!

...tomorrow.


I also have been working on couple of projects and tested few things out but faced some problems so I'll need to put them on hold for a while. /useless information

 

[Kataefi]

I also have been working on couple of projects and tested few things out but faced some problems so I'll need to put them on hold for a while. /useless information

I compleeeeeetely missed this... completely!

What have you been working on? Or is it a big secret?... you can PM me!

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I compleeeeeetely missed this... completely!

What have you been working on? Or is it a big secret?... you can PM me!

I though you mods your own skin that's differently coloured?

And nothing too major... I've been doing those darn F-tilt tests (that are driving me completely mad ) and had few things to make use of my new capture card... which ended up not working. It captures everything from my wii in black and white.

 

[SuSa]

Rawr. Just Watch

Most situational Zelda thing EVER:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AazGPU3xjVI

It's the last one I do. (although it sorta works on the right)

1) Must be on Japes (if you want this to kill)
2) DDD must release during your 1st pummel of a dash grab
3) You must nair JUST before hitting the water, this will drag DDD in with you (then nair cancels due to water, so he cannot DI out)
4) Mash Jump
5) If DDD does not mash jump, he will die anyways (you might as well, idk)
6) ???
7) Profit

On a more lighthearted note:
1) I think this can be useful if your opponent likes to break out of grabs quickly (lawl. first pummel) and this can be used on other stages.
2) I need to do testing to see if this is char. specific or what

 

[stingers]

wow what a useful topic

 

[SuSa]

Should I actually expand on why and how I think this is useful?

<_< if you can theorycraft at all, it should be easy to figure out. (Oh, and I think I said it in the social thread)

Oh, and I've managed to pull this off on other opponents. I'm sure once people know about it, they won't try to immediately break out of Zelda's grab. So you can pretty much always get a free pummel at the ledge. :x

 

[stingers]

was this worthy of its own topic susa

really now

 

[Kataefi]

If you can a) add a more appropriate, and b) build a list of stuff like who this works on, what stages etc... then I won't close this thread!

What I'm seeing here is that she drops down with them off the ledge. Is she in a position to Fair sweetspot after that on stages without water? that would be something to look into.

 

[KayLo!]

Kata, you could just merge this into the Great Fairy Fountain thread.

IMO, that'd be most appropriate since it's so situational and doesn't really deserve its own thread (no offense, SuSa, it's still cool to know).

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

What if he doesn't mash out ?

 

[Kataefi]

Good call!

I was thinking this might turn out into something useful for it's own thread, but after reading that the opponent basically sets themselves up for this trap, it just won't happen. Still though, look into it susa!

 

[SuSa]

It won't happen?

/has happened 4 times since yesterday

I'll work on a list of how characters break out, if they all break out, if they all break out the same way, and your options to attack from each option they have.

(EG: If they jump towards stage, you get a free uair. If they try to attack you, I'm 80% sure you can fair them. If you immediately teleport, that first hit should hit. If you nair, they will get hit with nair (but they CAN DI out rather easily. :/), if they don't jump then decide to jump later (eg: confused as to what happened, reacted slowly) then you can footstool them. (This is all I have on DDD))

On Japes, you can hit them with the first of nair, it will cancel. You will both fall into the water (you first) and if it happened on that left side, if they don't jump they die. If they jump, they get footstooled then die. I'm certain you can abuse this in other places. (I was thinking Pirate ship if it's ever legal where you are) Also I want to look into more with stage spiking with nair (if possible) on stages such as the neutrals.

EDIT:

@Almost

So, you are on the right side of Battlefield and just happen to do this. You know what happens to DDD if he doesn't mash out? HE GETS SPIKED BY DTHROW. Or did you all already forget about that? (And this works on certain stages, and this new tech works on (every) stage.)

This gives you an excuse to try and get 1 free pummel in. If he breaks out, he'll take some damage and you have options. If he doesn't, you can dthrow to spike him. (Battlefield and other stages on certain ledges) otherwise you get a free throw of your choice. Zelda's grab game is rather poor (for the grab itself) but the throws are actually good. So no harm done? Right?

Yep yep...... trust me, I'm pretty sure he will want to break out.

 

[zeldspazz]

^ You can d-throw on the right side of BF for that stage spike NinjaL found Better chance of KO.

Im just messing with ya though, Im sure that this can be plenty helpful on some stages if it works =o

 

[Kataefi]

I'll work on a list of how characters break out, if they all break out, if they all break out the same way, and your options to attack from each option they have.

I like this

Quite a big undertaking there susa but if you can get this information that would be grand

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

It won't happen?

/has happened 4 times since yesterday

I'll work on a list of how characters break out, if they all break out, if they all break out the same way, and your options to attack from each option they have.

(EG: If they jump towards stage, you get a free uair. If they try to attack you, I'm 80% sure you can fair them. If you immediately teleport, that first hit should hit. If you nair, they will get hit with nair (but they CAN DI out rather easily. :/), if they don't jump then decide to jump later (eg: confused as to what happened, reacted slowly) then you can footstool them. (This is all I have on DDD))

On Japes, you can hit them with the first of nair, it will cancel. You will both fall into the water (you first) and if it happened on that left side, if they don't jump they die. If they jump, they get footstooled then die. I'm certain you can abuse this in other places. (I was thinking Pirate ship if it's ever legal where you are) Also I want to look into more with stage spiking with nair (if possible) on stages such as the neutrals.

EDIT:

@Almost

So, you are on the right side of Battlefield and just happen to do this. You know what happens to DDD if he doesn't mash out? HE GETS SPIKED BY DTHROW. Or did you all already forget about that? (And this works on certain stages, and this new tech works on (every) stage.)

This gives you an excuse to try and get 1 free pummel in. If he breaks out, he'll take some damage and you have options. If he doesn't, you can dthrow to spike him. (Battlefield and other stages on certain ledges) otherwise you get a free throw of your choice. Zelda's grab game is rather poor (for the grab itself) but the throws are actually good. So no harm done? Right?

Yep yep...... trust me, I'm pretty sure he will want to break out.

I actually did forget about the dthrow spike. You make this **** sound pretty legit. Have you tested it on delfinio yet?


I have a question about the tech chase section. What would a good follow up be?

 

[XFadingNirvanaX]

Susa is my new hero.

 

[SuSa]

May I ask why? :x

Also I won't really be able to test til tomorrow.... Testing two peoples options with 1 controller is hard. xD

 

[Kataefi]

In lieu of all this DASC stuff recently discovered, I've noticed jab has unpunishable uses when it hits a shield near the ledge; the shieldpushback forces the opponent to grab the ledge. This is pretty standard with a lot of her moves actually (a lot of everyone's moves as well)

What's good here however is that as they drop down to grab the ledge, you can buffer a dtilt or dsmash from the low cooldown to strike them before they achieve ledge invicincibility, and it's always guaranteed.

With dtilt you lock them in the air, and it sets up for the dtilt spike very nicely... and Dsmash is a good gimping tool here.

I've got some pretty interesting stuff about Nair on platforms as well, but nothing concrete yet.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I have a question. If you have guaranteed follows ups from a trip why would you tech chase it?

 

[Kataefi]

They can only roll one way... so you limit their options here. Some characters have tiny and laggy rolls which can tech chase into a lightning kick... but it's so precise that it's just not worth risking the effort needed when you can build damage or kill using a safer and guaranteed alternative.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I've noticed jab has unpunishable uses when it hits a shield near the ledge; the shieldpushback forces the opponent to grab the ledge. This is pretty standard with a lot of her moves actually (a lot of everyone's moves as well)

I do that with her F-tilt all the time as it pushes the characters back enough to become safe guite far from the ledge. Sadly it's too slow for any followups

BTW, have you tested if opponent could escape jab => D-tilt/-smash combo near the ledge by fastfalling or buffering a jump or fast aerial?

Some characters have tiny and laggy rolls which can tech chase into a lightning kick...

Namely Charizard and his troll roll.

But who says you'd have to tech chase into LK? If they have short rolls you can tech chase into F-smash, U-smash, U-tilt... anything really. It actually might help to get some kills from characters with short rolls in some situations.

Example: you're playing short character who's at the high percents and D-tilt on a platform, tripping him. This happens at the right side of the stage and you're facing left, so many of your options could be DI:ed and wouldn't kill. What you do is to drop down from the platform and Uair his rising attack/roll, possibly getting a kill. Outside of a platform you could still tech chase into running U-smash or walking U-tilt and still get the same result.

I agree that it's almost always better to attack straight after tripping D-tilt but this isn't something to completely ignore.

 

[Kataefi]

Half-split you just made me think of a GREAT idea

I'm going to test dtilt (trip or stun) > fast fall Fair on platforms... it should work on every character... I'll report back here. It'll be a nice little situational trick for platforms yet again =D

Also yes I did test all that stuff for Jab - they can't do anything... it's definitely guaranteed at the ledge, which is a decent setup for the dtilt spike if you do use it. Dsmash would be ideal for people like Olimar, Falco etc...

 

[Half-Split Soul]

I'm going to test dtilt (trip or stun) > fast fall Fair on platforms

D-tilt trip => drop down => douple jump Fair/Bair is what I've done as an tech chase but it would be great if direct Fair after drop down actually worked. I'm keeping my fingers crossed

Also yes I did test all that stuff for Jab - they can't do anything...

That's what I though too, it's just that I've missed D-tilt after near-ledge jab earlier and couldn't remember whether it was me buffering incorrectly, being out of range or them doing something...

It's good to know it wasn't something they did.

 

[Kataefi]

Yeah I know what you mean... the way I've done it is I set the C-stick to attack so it always buffered correctly. Range is important... basically you just need to shield push them to the ledge and then buffer correctly. I'll see the results when on the battlefield platforms.

_____

Apologies for double posting but I'll merge it after this.

If you trip anyone on a dropthrough platform you do actually get in a guaranteed kick based on the 19 frame advantage. Bair is so much easier though. You also get a free uair, but I don't know if they can perform a tech option then. I'd like to look into the uair some more...

To do this... dtilt, trip them, buffer a turnaround, then press down and bair almost simultaneously (you'll drop through and kick). It hits everyone

It's not video worthy but I'd like to demonstrate this for the OP so if anyone can upload some videos I've made then that would be grand.

I'd also like to bring platform cancelling to everyone's attention http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK16zTBzIQQ

(Imagine platforming cancelling into dtilt locks, causing a trip, causing a lightning kick to the face lmao! Veeeery situational but who knows when and where such situations can arise!)

 

[zeldspazz]

Thats very strange that you can only platform cancelling on moving platforms. Is there logic behind that physic of the game or is it just "it is what it is" type thing.

Also, imagine how much of a jump Zelda would make on the tier list if all these things werent so situational. It makes me almost sad. She got so much more depth than we give her credit for.

 

[KayLo!]

Eh, compared to the rest of the cast, Zelda has relatively no depth. She has her core defensive gameplay, then a bunch of situational stuff that might work but is, in reality, easily countered once the opponent knows what they're doing.

I still <3 her though. Especially on lagfi.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

It's not video worthy but I'd like to demonstrate this for the OP so if anyone can upload some videos I've made then that would be grand.

If you still need them uploaded just send them to me and I'll take care of it.

Thats very strange that you can only platform cancelling on moving platforms. Is there logic behind that physic of the game or is it just "it is what it is" type thing.

I don't think this has been examined thoroughly enough to be 100 % sure why it only works on moving platforms. My guess'd be that the game counts the platform to move under you so that you "land" on it during the very first frames of an attack and then completely cancels that attack, making you to land on the platform.

 

[Kataefi]

Yes please half-split. It's a series of videos... any chance you can put them together, maybe with some music. We can jazz it up!

What's your wii number? I also don't mind if it's in vintage black and white

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Wii number in my postpit should be correct

We also don't need to settle for black and white since I got my cap card to work correctly: it just took some "adjustments"...