~ Fairy Fountain Research Thread: buhbye ol' chum ~

[Kataefi]

What I want to know is whether or not Nayru's can shield poke with success.

Nayru's has a strange whirlwind of hitboxes that go from top to bottom. If you jump to nayru's, you'll poke their shield far better than doing a ground nayru's iirc.

If this is the case and it shield pokes through, it's a potential free hit everytime you do it right, because a) it would against shield b) it would work against spotdodgers and c) it takes 6 frames to drop shield, and on average 8 frames for usmash or utilt to come out considering every character, which doesn't beat nayru's. The invincibility will last through characters who have quick efficient utilts like pit.

I'll be asking the kaylo for some info!

 

[KayLo!]

Wut.

I can test something now-ish if it's something simple. I'm procrastinating on Pika stuff. This doesn't look like it needs frames tho. =O

Whatchu need, exactly?

EDIT: Nvm, my TV isn't free anymore. Sister came over and took it over...... x.x But maybe later tonight or tomorrow.

 

[Kataefi]

Nah it doesn't actually need any frame testing. In fact can you test the hitstun on her fsmash and dash attack for me? =D Especially dash attack as I don't think hotgarbage might have covered that!

I'll test this the footstool thing and see what I can come up with xD

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

is the jab > dash grab legit combo?

 

[KayLo!]

is the jab > dash grab legit combo?

Only at certain percentages. Hitstun data is in the OP..... if your frame advantage is big enough, you have enough time to do a dash grab if they aren't sent flying too far.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Only at certain percentages. Hitstun data is in the OP..... if your frame advantage is big enough, you have enough time to do a dash grab if they aren't sent flying too far.

Alright cool I'll practice it I guess.

So is like jab >dash grab> uair like legit kill combo?

 

[MrEh]

Dude, no.

Jab combos are very situational. So situational that it's not even worth learning the percents in which it works.


Also, Grabs into Aerials? This isn't Melee. lol

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Dude, no.

Jab combos are very situational. So situational that it's not even worth learning the percents in which it works.


Also, Grabs into Aerials? This isn't Melee. lol

The OP says uthrow>uair.

 

[Kataefi]

Yes it does lol but you need to read it. It's merely a setup. Anything that sends them directly up is a setup for uair.

edit: setups are not guaranteed btw

 

[MrEh]

The OP says uthrow>uair.

I sure hope that was listed as a followup and not a true comob.

 

[MRTW113]

Speaking somewhat of uair: when you uair then fastfall, does the hitbox stay with you or does it stay on the spot where you initiated the attack?

 

[Brinzy]

Stays at the spot.

 

[Katy Parry]

I think I just discovered something.

I was shielding and I jumped as soon as I was hit and hit B.

Zelda went way up in the air while using Nayru's love.

Is this new?

 

[KayLo!]

I think I just discovered something.

I was shielding and I jumped as soon as I was hit and hit B.

Zelda went way up in the air while using Nayru's love.

Is this new?

Sounds like ... uh. What do you guys call it? Love Jumping?

I don't really do Zelda's tricks except for dtilt locking on occasion, so I dunno. But it sounds like it.

 

[Katy Parry]

No, Love Jumping occurs when you are ACTUALLY hit.

I was shielding, Luigi hit my shield, so I jumped and hit B.

I think it's new.

Hmm....name...

Nayru's Escape?

=]

I like it.

 

[Half-Split Soul]

Nayru's Escape?

No. The name must include the word love.

jk. So, did you jump with tap jump or x/y/whatever other button? And do you have a video of it?

 

[sniperworm]

No, Love Jumping occurs when you are ACTUALLY hit.

I was shielding, Luigi hit my shield, so I jumped and hit B.

I think it's new.

Hmm....name...

Nayru's Escape?

=]

I like it.

Yeah, because after I block something as Zelda I definitely want to fling myself up in the air directly above my opponent...

But seriously though, vid to confirm please. This could be useful for transforming into Sheik if we go really high. Or this could be important in the sense that I wouldn't want to do it by accident, lol.

Sounds like ... uh. What do you guys call it? Love Jumping?

Please don't ever use that name again...

 

[Katy Parry]

And tap jump was on, but I just hit X, then B. You don't really have to hit them at the same time.

 

[Kataefi]

He's right. You can love jump out of shield stun. It must be in sheild stun though and nothing else. You can also love jump out of hitstun. This has been known for quite some while iirc Villi brought this up.

It's a big wtf moment and you do go fairly high. Almost like a zap jump but less far.

 

[KayLo!]

Yeah, I just pulled this off vs. a CPU. No real use for it, though, since a) you're too far to follow up with anything, and b) Zelda hates being directly above people.

It's not far enough to safely do a transformation, I don't think, although I'm not sure if the distance is damage-dependent.

 

[Katy Parry]

heres the vid! =]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F21qxOZoB_U

 

[sniperworm]

He's right. You can love jump out of shield stun. It must be in sheild stun though and nothing else. You can also love jump out of hitstun. This has been known for quite some while iirc Villi brought this up.

It's a big wtf moment and you do go fairly high. Almost like a zap jump but less far.

I guess that means jump OoS to NeutralB is off limits, lol.

 

[Katy Parry]

Not necessarily. Maybe edge-guarding setup to Dair.

 

[Ochobobo]

Would you be able to do a Rising Transformation from this as well

 

[Katy Parry]

Sadly, no. It only works with Nayru's love.

Now From that, a falling transformation is easier.

 

[sniperworm]

Sadly, no. It only works with Nayru's love.

Now From that, a falling transformation is easier.

I think he was asking if you could do a rising transformation with your second jump (after you finish Naryu's).

 

[Katy Parry]

Oh, yea. But it will end up as a falling transformation. You'll finish it before you hit the ground tho.

 

[sniperworm]

Hey guys, I just finished reading about how the Ness boards rediscovered that his Dtilt has guaranteed tripping at a certain range (I don't know how information like that can get lost, lol).

Anyway, I know Zelda's Dtilt works differently from Ness's, but I was wondering if Zelda's Dtilt had a similar property (a certain range where tripping is more likely). I'm aware that lots of testing has been done on Dtilt, so maybe you guys already checked this, but I just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[Brinzy]

If it does exist, I would guess it's at the end. I used the dtilt lock, and even though it decays a bit while I'm doing it, I almost always get a trip at the end. Of course, I'd do real testing before coming to any conclusion...

 

[KayLo!]

I did some testing on tripping percentages, but I have to find the numbers.... forget where I put them. I only did character-dependent and damage-dependent testing, though, nothing on range yet. (All of this was tested at near the end of its range.)

Also, Kataefi, walking dtilt lock gets a negative. It doesn't really work. I'll post more details later, but I've got birthday shenanigans to get ready for.

 

[Brinzy]

I guess, as a mindgame, if you know the opponent is gonna roll back after getting dtilt'd over and over, SH forward and dtilt them as they roll back to catch them in it again. It's good for people who instinctively roll back, and then when they stop doing it (as in, after you condition them to it from playing with them for a while), just punish their wake-up attack. Or... just follow-up, lol.

But seriously, this has worked well for me... except against other Zeldas, because she rolls too far back to keep up with herself.

 

[MrEh]

When people roll into me, I would use Naryu's if I can react fast enough. (or if they have a terrible roll)

It's one of the few uses the move has. The hitbox usually traps any opponent that rolls into you. Plus, since the move is so terrible, it's a good way to refresh your other moves.

 

[stealth3654]

So has anyone been doing testing on falling dair on grounded opponents? I've been using it recently, and it seems like if you're falling while doing it, your opponent will have enough hit stun frames for you to smash them. Also, sometime when you use the dair, the opponents will pop up, leading to an easy up smash on shorter characters. I'm not saying we should be using dairs on grounded opponents, I'm just wondering if there is enough hit stun to be able to pull this off.

 

[Kataefi]

Well... you get a frame advantage over 100% (+10 to be exact) but this is under perfect control situations, where you hit with the dair and then immediately hit with another attack. What's interesting is if you hit with the weak part of dair whilst they're in the air and force them on the ground... they often go into a lot of stun time... I'm getting hotgarbage to work on it for me so hopefully the results come soon =p

Erm...

Ftilt is longer ranged than fsmash. I know this 100% now - for those that don't believe, go on Luigi's mansion and balance on the ledge. Turn around, and start taking tiny steps forward. Set the C-Stick to tilts so you can ftilt without walking forward. Start ftilting and slowly walk until you hit the pillar. In that same position, start fsmashing. It won't hit... it scrapes the pillar but it won't hit. It's definitely conclusive that Ftilt is longer ranged and quicker. I also don't think it's very punishable when spaced at the tip no?

It also slides her back somewhat which, I'm convinced, on many occasions can screw with the opponent's spacing.

 

[-Mars-]

Uair to usmash is actually a combo at extremely low percents lol.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

my favourite use of uair is when the foe is aproaching me whilst I'm on a platform and I use a falling uair.

it's like "Oh, I'm sorry. You were looking for Zelda? All you found, instead, was a stock-ending explosion."

 

[KayLo!]

my favourite use of uair is when the foe is aproaching me whilst I'm on a platform and I use a falling uair.

it's like "Oh, I'm sorry. You were looking for Zelda? All you found, instead, was a stock-ending explosion."

Uair kills in general are just.... sexy as hell. Drop-through uairs on platforms are too good.... and regular SH uairs when someone's trying to approach you from the air. So situational but so satisfying. <333

This just reminded me that I need to finish frame data for Zelda's aerials.

 

[zeldspazz]

Is the hitstun/landing lag of Naryu's Love differ under different circumstances?

 

[KayLo!]

Ftilt Frame Dataz.

Is the hitstun/landing lag of Naryu's Love differ under different circumstances?

No idea, but I doubt it. o.o It's always laggy, and it always has pretty ****ty hitstun considering how much cooldown Zelda suffers before she can follow up.

Ftilt frame data from the Sexy Poses! thread (some of which is already in here, but I'm too lazy to pick out the repeat info):

Startup: 1-11
Hitbox: 12-14
Cooldown: 15-39
IASA: frame 40

Max Damage: 11-14% (fresh, all angles), 5-6% (stalest, all angles)
*Does greater damage towards mid-tip range

Changes hurtbox?: Dramatically
Net Movement: None
Type: 3D, Single Hit
This move has transcendent priority.

Hitlag: 10 frames
Shield Hitlag: 10 frames
Shield Stun: 5 frames
Shield Push: Moderate
Shield Disadvantage: -16
*Tested fresh on Mario @ 0%, first hitbox frame
*Perfect shielding eliminates shield stun/push & normal shield drop frames.

# of hitboxes: 2
*Hitbox 1 (mid-tip range) sends the opponent diagonally towards Zelda's back, over her head.
*Hitbox 2 (close range) sends the opponent straight away from Zelda.

Knockback Information:

Normal-Downward Up Close 0% ---> 48km/h
Normal-Downward Up Close 100% ---> 103km/h

Upward Up Close 0% ---> 50km/h
Upward Up Close 100% ---> 109km/h

Normal-Downward-Upward Mid/Tipper Range 0% ---> 51km/h
Normal-Downward-Upward Mid/Tipper Range 100% --> 114km/h

 

[MrEh]

Uair kills in general are just.... sexy as hell. Drop-through uairs on platforms are too good.... and regular SH uairs when someone's trying to approach you from the air. So situational but so satisfying. <333

This just reminded me that I need to finish frame data for Zelda's aerials.

Best way to hit those Uairs is to trick your opponent into airdodging.

Instill FEAR in them!