EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)

[AntoPark]

Damn, the samus thread is dead.

 

[Pi]

was poppin here a minute ago

 

[Geist]

 

[edgeluca]

At least 10 pennies.

 

[zDuck]

m2k's sheik on FD is no joke >.>, vids of me getting ***** should be up soon

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

m2k's sheik on FD is no joke >.>, vids of me getting ***** should be up soon

Don't worry, not even the Samus genius known as HugS can stand against that T-1000 of a Sheik/Marth player.

 

[MeijinAkuma]

Don't worry, not even the Samus genius known as HugS can stand against that T-1000 of a Sheik/Marth player.

speaking of sheik... I got WRECKED by a sheik in my last tournament. This MU has superseded falco as my all time worst MU.. Vids will be going up (finally I'll have some) and I can get some critique then.

In the meantime, I was hoping for some help brainstorming things that actually work in this MU beyond all the basic things. Ideas?

 

[rhan]

Samus v Sheik is ridiculously stupid. What's even the basis of the match-up? I honestly just wing it whenever I play Samus v Sheik..

 

[Geist]

That matchup is super precise, ***** can punish you from a whiffed anything. Gotta keep your pokes and footsies as efficient as possible, and keep your edgeguarding up.
Also dthrow to charge beam.

 

[zDuck]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofK-SmB4n4I&feature=feedu

this is WF, there's a GF too but it's not up
i requested marth on FD for game 3 >.>

 

[Geist]

looks like an old recording of me vs kk :[
oh the ****.
There really is no advice I can give that would be effective against a sheik of that caliber. Nothing short of a **** load of practice can make a noticeable difference I find.

 

[Pi]

summon DJ Nintendo for m2k sheik advice

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

Samus v Sheik is ridiculously stupid. What's even the basis of the match-up? I honestly just wing it whenever I play Samus v Sheik..

I honestly don't find the matchup that bad, mainly because I've played a ton of Sheiks in my lifetime. This isn't to say the matchup isn't frustrating and lame.

But really Sheik has a number on Samus from every angle. The only real reason why Samus players win the matchup is either because Sheik's are unfamiliar or impatient or you're simply the better player.

M2K's Sheik never makes any real mistakes to capitalize on, and he doesn't approach directly to get punished by CCs, so there's really no way to bait a player like him into not using Sheik's super-safe approached all the time.


I still find the Peach MU to be gayer though, so much damn priority and hard to kill. Same with Falcons. >:-(

 

[MeijinAkuma]

This sheik player is an extremely intelligent player... plus he's also way better than me, so I can't seem to find any openings other than a few random ones... I'll just have to go into super ultra try-hard mode with my spacing and keep at it.

Also Dthrow to charge beam isn't real as far as I can tell.. what percents does it work at? He and I tested it a little on FD and it seems he can DI away (preventing any fsmash follow up) and then tech roll.

It is totally possible I am just a scrub though, I'm terrible at charge shot combos. Probably one of the weakest parts of my game.

But as for the Peach MU, I haven't played any fantastic peaches but I seem to be able to out-gay them, if you will... every time I knock them away I charge my beam rather than pushing for a follow up. That and missiles seem to be > turnips.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Im no samus or sheik main, but if you are having difficulties in the match-up try being more patient and playing the stage a bit more. Sheik doesn't really have an approach option against samus so just keep in mind your stage positioning and watch out for fairs/bairs off platforms and dash attacks/grabs. Theoretically you should be able to punish all of these things with proper spacing of ftilt, utilt, dtilt, or probably many others. Be wary of going into the air, especially of letting sheik get below you. Also, this might go without saying, but don't dash attack or smash attack sheik's shield because of the guaranteed grab it gives her (and the guaranteed damage that comes with it).


*runs away*

 

[MeijinAkuma]

Im no samus or sheik main, but if you are having difficulties in the match-up try being more patient and playing the stage a bit more. Sheik doesn't really have an approach option against samus so just keep in mind your stage positioning and watch out for fairs/bairs off platforms and dash attacks/grabs. Theoretically you should be able to punish all of these things with proper spacing of ftilt, utilt, dtilt, or probably many others. Be wary of going into the air, especially of letting sheik get below you. Also, this might go without saying, but don't dash attack or smash attack sheik's shield because of the guaranteed grab it gives her (and the guaranteed damage that comes with it).


*runs away*

I get overly-aggressive and start making extremely unintelligent decisions in this MU... I think it mostly stems from me just feeling utterly helpless and not keeping my cool. That's pretty good advice overall, and I'll definitely focus on spacing better next time I play him and report back with my findings on that note (and vids should be going up within the week with plenty more to follow)

The better samus mains can correct me if I'm horribly wrong, but sheik can outcamp samus all day. It seems to me that needle camping is way better than missile camping, I can occasionally peg him with a well timed missile or two, but for the most part I get clipped by his needles way more than he eats a missile.. even when i'm using the platforms to shell out smash/homings.

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

The better samus mains can correct me if I'm horribly wrong, but sheik can outcamp samus all day. It seems to me that needle camping is way better than missile camping, I can occasionally peg him with a well timed missile or two, but for the most part I get clipped by his needles way more than he eats a missile.. even when i'm using the platforms to shell out smash/homings.

Sheik will win the camping game without platforms, but with platforms it's pretty much even. Samus has the luxury of 3 different types of projectiles which can force Sheik into a corner or to adjust if she only wants to camp all day. Aerial needle spam actually has a hole where you can Dash Attack or Nair them if timed right.


Probably my favorite trick against ground Needle Spam is to time a Missile Cancel so that the missile is right above the needles but will "BOOM! Headshot!" Sheik. I've prided myself on mastering this art.

 

[vadgama]

Also, this might go without saying, but don't dash attack or smash attack sheik's shield because of the guaranteed grab it gives her (and the guaranteed damage that comes with it).

This is good advice against anyone you're playing against. Don't dash or smash shields. EVER!

 

[KAOSTAR]

sheik ***** samus lololol. Its way too easy. sheiks jab and grab range give her alot of options. Pressure that shield with jab and samus cant avoid the impending DOOOOOOOOM!!!!

shiek can punish samus tilts oos as well loololool.

 

[Pi]

what can sheik do to properly spaced ftilt...?
i'm pretty sure you can catch her trying to WD toward you

but yea her jab is a real *****, pretty much comes down to predicting when she's going to grab and UBing it
if she shields though, free punish for her LOLZ2EZ

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

You can wd oos between jabs, and if you get caught by a jab you will be CCing anyways and therefore able to immediately dsmash or something.

I seem to recall hugs saying sheik was only a 45-55 matchup and marth and ganon are a 40-60 matchup

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

You can wd oos between jabs, and if you get caught by a jab you will be CCing anyways and therefore able to immediately dsmash or something.

I seem to recall hugs saying sheik was only a 45-55 matchup and marth and ganon are a 40-60 matchup

Trust me, any Sheik that knows the matchup baits those kinds of maneuvers all the time. You can't abuse that because they'll just telegraph it and F-Tilt you or dash grab/attack.

In those situations it's sometimes better to just stay in shield until they feel compelled to grab. Even the most defensive Sheiks won't turn down grab baited shields, it's like catnip to them.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Those are some onesided conditions you got there. Your post assumes sheik knows every action you are going to take and that you are unable to out-predict or act safely.


BTW Ftilt and Dash attack can be CC'd too.

 

[zDuck]

Those are some onesided conditions you got there. Your post assumes sheik knows every action you are going to take and that you are unable to out-predict or act safely.

This is how I felt when I played drephen's sheik lol, he KNOWS

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Drephen is a known hacker.

 

[Pi]

what sheiks are you playing that sit there and jab/tilt your shield...lol

all shiek has to do is jab/tilt your shield either once, or two times, and then grab after

mind games

only punish to her grab is to spotdodge & punish it, which keeping us guessing between one or two attacks then a grab counters

or upb OoS, which obviously has it's counters, and isn't nearly as rewarding as a spotdodge punish.

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

Those are some onesided conditions you got there. Your post assumes sheik knows every action you are going to take and that you are unable to out-predict or act safely.


BTW Ftilt and Dash attack can be CC'd too.

A good player in general doesn't fall for the same tactic twice. It's not really easy to CC a tilt or Dash Attack if you don't see it coming whilst WD backwards OOS.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

WD generally option selects a CC.

 

[ThePrime]

WD generally option selects a CC.

WD OoS gives you options, I wouldnt say it option selects anything. I dont believe options selects exist in smash.

 

[KAOSTAR]

even if it did its not good enough... its just asdi down. u have to full crouch for that good ****.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I just picked up Samus the other day. Such an awesome character.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

WD OoS gives you options, I wouldnt say it option selects anything. I dont believe options selects exist in smash.

Wat !?

XII. Option Selects

(Yes, Smash has them) If you don’t know what an option select is, watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHHoGHcgK9k explanation from 0:00-0:20

Option selects in smash have a lot to do with buffering inputs when on both offense and defense. Buffering simply refers to inputting commands inside other commands. (ie: Inputting a wavedash command during an uair. I’ll get more into why you’d do that later.) Whenever possible, you should buffer inputs within your attacks. I often see people get lazy and miss out on these opportunities. In example, I’ll see a Fox fsmash and wiff it, but not hold down to CC their opponent’s aerial. (Of course you’d only CC when the time is right. That was just one example.)

Basically the point of this section is that when you input an attack you should always analyze the situation and see if there is another input you should be buffering to give you the best results. This is a fairly broad topic, so when I’m describing several different things, refer back to the words of the video to see how it relates.

Now let’s look at some specific scenarios. You’re Falco. Imagine that incredible Fox shield pressure. Nair/dair > shine (repeat). You often hear people say, wavedashing out of shield is your best option. But why? Think about it. You’re covering two options at once. After he hits your shield with the nair or the shine and you input the wavedash either:
A: His shine/nair will hit you and you’ll CC tech roll away from him
B: He won’t shine/nair and you will wavedash away safely

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=80v-tJTlIGk#t=36s This is proof of the concept. See how M2K got the tech in the middle of his WD?

Two options covered by inputting a WD. TRY IT!

 

[ThePrime]

Wat !?

ok they exist but not the same extent as in ssf4. So yes you're correct about the wd OS

 

[DarrellD]

Someone tell me how pretty i am =]

 

[Geist]

You're beautiful Darrell.

 

[ihavespaceblondes]

Darrell you're an amazingly sexy man.
And it will be an honor placing higher than you at Genesis 2.
^_^

 

[THE RED SPARROW]

Someone tell me how pretty i am =]

You gotta earn it! Teach us how to do your crazy approaches and insane comebacks with Samus!



EDIT: MY ONE THOUSANDTH POST!

 

[DarrellD]

IHSB's is my hero sometimes. I'm getting you back at genesis for last time lol

 

[Rat]

Shout out to duck for telling me to edgeguard marth with Utilt. I finally got it.

Marth should never recover from samus.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

rat we need to stylize your avatar to give you more street cred