edgeluca
Smash Lord
LOL that set was hilarious
At least spaceballs got a game off him
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EXTENNNDUURRRRRR (samus gen. disc.)
- Thread starter Pi
- Start date
At least spaceballs got a game off him
ihavespaceblondes
Smash Master
Chopz wasn't laser camping, he was doing an amazing job of controlling my movement options with well-spaced and timed lasers. Falcon can do the same sort of thing, though mostly with his aerials and superior movement options.
Pi
Smash Hero
I struggle against DD camping falcons who space nairs well.
Geist
Smash Master
I'm going to play devil's advocate. Don't hate me <3
But yeah, neither will be comboing you at a high percent.
PSing sucks, but dash attack is the solution. It cancels the missile as well as the dash attack animation, so you don't have to worry about being punished. Odds are you'll have time to react to the PS, assuming the Ganon had time to. Unless it was a fluke. Which sucks untold amounts of ***.
Also, spot dodging a dash grab doesn't work, it has two hitboxes. Most people overlook this. Samus's Dash grab >> standing grab
Ganon's roll is amazing.
/arguing for the sake of argument
He can't tipman you with an Uair if you sweetspot. Ganon's moves unfortunately have stupid amounts of knockback, but fortunately the trajectory generally sends you at high angles. DIing up can let you attempt to recover on the stage without the use of DJ, which could give you another attempt to get back, and let you survive Dair until higher percents.
A marth with a good platform game is scary. If he platform drops, he has considerably more options than Ganon. Add the threat of Shield dropping and you have some very threatening situations.
But yeah, neither will be comboing you at a high percent.
Granted, this is all still a problem against Marth, arguably on a higher scale.
PSing sucks, but dash attack is the solution. It cancels the missile as well as the dash attack animation, so you don't have to worry about being punished. Odds are you'll have time to react to the PS, assuming the Ganon had time to. Unless it was a fluke. Which sucks untold amounts of ***.
Also, spot dodging a dash grab doesn't work, it has two hitboxes. Most people overlook this. Samus's Dash grab >> standing grab
Ganon's roll is amazing.
If we're still talking about Marth, iirc every one of his moves can destroy a missile.
/arguing for the sake of argument
Pi
Smash Hero
I'm not talking about tipman spike, I'm talking about him hanging on the edge and wavedashing back off, or just dropping down, when you are diagonal from the edge. And his bair & fair both kill sooner than marth's bair, so if he hits you with either and you're like above 100% you're dead, if you're off the stage. A good gannon is going to make it nearly impossible to recover below the edge, make it hard to recover high, and make it hard to SS grapple.
Fighting rockcrock made me realize that a ganon who knows how to edgeguard is way worse than a marth who does. You can't air dodge through his attacks, cause he get's two shots, you have to avoid them completely by jumping, and if he predicts that you now have a ****ty time getting back to the stage cause you don't have a jump. I've never been gimped harder than when I'm fighting confident ganons. Even puff is a cinch compared to them.
Unless the marth is spamming Dair's you can pretty much CC all of his **** from platforms.
It's easier for marth, but ganon can do it too. He can dash attack missiles, down B them, side B under them (or is that only falcon?). He has options.
And yes the grab does have multiple hitboxes, but they are spaced apart and you can't rely on it always grabbing through spot dodges.
Geist
Smash Master
Ah okay then that's totally different. Recovering against Ganon requires a separate strategy than recovering from Marth.
Ganon can't spam arials like Marth off stage. I mean, his arials are huge and pack a punch and will **** you, but he can't line them up for precision **** as easily as Marth.
I'm having a hard time imagining a way Ganon can get the opportunity to Uair spike you twice. I don't doubt there's a way, I just have never seen a ganon do it.
A Ganon that gets too greedy can get counter gimped with a well spaced arial. It's not much to rely on, but it's saved my stock more than once.
Strategically airdodging should work if you line up your recovery, but then again, if you're playing people as good as rockcrock on a regular basis, there are a lot of reasons recovering would become really difficult.
Can't screw attack break through Ganon's arials? probably not
...
Wait isn't Hbox in FL? 0.o
How are you going to attack Marth from under his platform if you're CCing though?
The point I was trying to make was that Marth's arials are fast enough to make attempting to attack him when he's free on a platform a bad idea. Ganon has more wind-up with his moves, with an exception to Bair, because Bair ***** everything you do.
Both have less risk involved when attacking them on a platform imo, but it's a bit of a stretch to say Ganon is safer to attack.
Well me arguing this point is... erm... pointless. It's safe to say that you can't rely on dash grab 100% of the time, and he cant rely on spot dodging 100% of the time. Either way it's a bad idea on both sides.
Though I would say it's probably higher risk/ lower reward on Samus's end.
Also, referring to Falcon and Ganon's side B, aren't there a few frames where it bypasses projectiles? Like it goes right through Falco/Fox lasers and sheik's needles.
Pi
Smash Hero
The safest aerial marth has that would be easiest to land is fair, which won't gimp you, and sends you up, making recovering even easier.
Ganon can do two aerials off the stage, a good distance below, while still recovering.
And yes Hbox is in FL, I've fought him, ganon is harder to recover against.
Ganon can do two aerials off the stage, a good distance below, while still recovering.
And yes Hbox is in FL, I've fought him, ganon is harder to recover against.
Geist
Smash Master
Hmmm
But can't jiggs just... fair> fair> fair> fair
She can jump in to all your bombs too. That always sucks.
But can't jiggs just... fair> fair> fair> fair
She can jump in to all your bombs too. That always sucks.
Pi
Smash Hero
If she intercepts you, you die, but if she's out there when you have a jump, and you can jump over her, you're in the clear, her moves don't have the range that ganon's do, she can spam them, but if you break through it you're fine.
Dynamism?
Smash Champion
or she can just rest you and get hit with a bomb then recover safely because jiggs is really good and nobody gives jiggs enough credit for being up there with shiek as the toughest match up...
just sayin
just sayin
ihavespaceblondes
Smash Master
Geist
Smash Master
That happened to me once LOL
HYPE
DO IT
Put in that clip on FoD where Falco gets ***** by both hits of Dsmash, then ***** again by a charge beam.
edgeluca
Smash Lord
TOA
Also, finally!
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
LOL i love when they get hit multiple times by her dsmash
yo space nutz when u want to team? seriously ... i mean we are the best aggro samoose... wait probably the only good aggro samoose out there LOL
so letsssss dooooo it ... oh and i can play sheik fox cf really well in doubles ... my cf got me 9th at genesis doubles ^_^
so letsssss dooooo it ... oh and i can play sheik fox cf really well in doubles ... my cf got me 9th at genesis doubles ^_^
ThePrime
Smash Lord
please jock this man!
Pi
Smash Hero
Settin the bar high I see
Pluplue
Smash Ace
makes me sad when the samus combo videos consist of people who dont know how to fight samus. (sad sace) but it looks like like fun! (almost happy face)
Pi
Smash Hero
plup you're just jealous cause you're samus is boring!
P.S. I'm beating you at, and winning, CEO >=)
ThePrime
Smash Lord
drama, one of the many things you'll find in the samus boardsplup you're just jealous cause you're samus is boring!
Pluplue
Smash Ace
ooh I like what you said there. "What can ganon do against missiles." Well since his R and L buttons are obviously broken, I guess jab?
and knight I know my samus is boring. thats why I also main Ylink, pikachu, luigi and falco. teach me how to make samus fun!
EDIT: I agree with the majority on the "is samus better against ganon or marth?" debate. (meaning I disagree with knights points) ganon is amazingly good against samus, yes, but you never stated marths good points. Firstly hes the only character that can actually combo samus. secondly his moves outprioritize samuses almost as well as ganons plus theyre spammable. LASTLY his recovery wrecks shanons.
Pi
Smash Hero
spell my name wrong more please
(i thought we were friends )I said marth can combo samus up to like 60%
His only reliable kill moves come in when his Uptilt kills, and then he can side B uptilt you if you don't CC it.
Marth's approach is far less scary than ganon's, a ftilt/dash attack/grab challenges anything he's coming at you with, even if you trade it's not a loss, ganon on the other hand is never in your favor.
I'd say marth is easier to edgeguard than ganon as well. I also may not be taking advantage of his predictable down B though.
We all know what marth CAN do, space Ftilts and dtilt your shield. In theory it's great, samus can do nothing against it, in practice it's another story.
You can't CC ganon, UBing him is almost always risky, recovering is a *****, he punishes harder, all of his moves kill, marth is so '06.
ihavespaceblondes
Smash Master
Ahhhh I want to do this so bad. I'm not going to Apex though, so...
POE3 in a few weeks.
Tipped Off 6 in October
Don't know what other big tourneys I'm going to between those.
Also living in Florida would totally give me a bias towards Ganon being unbeatable for Samus too. But I feel like Marth has the tools to make a reaction-based, almost-but-not-quite-untouchable playstyle vs Samus, whereas Ganon still has openings no matter how he's played.
come to RoM 3 nigg! ... its in november !!!!
wats POE? LOL *goes to look it up*
Pi
Smash Hero
Chaddd destroyed my face
Geist
Smash Master
I'm attempting to see the matchup beyond just the Ganons I play.
So far I've never been beaten as bad as the massive trouncing Kage gave me, and I have an irrational fear of Ganon's fist now.
But I'm beaten most conosistantly by Marth players, and that's what it really comes down to imo.
So far I've never been beaten as bad as the massive trouncing Kage gave me, and I have an irrational fear of Ganon's fist now.
But I'm beaten most conosistantly by Marth players, and that's what it really comes down to imo.
terranoia
Smash Cadet
What's the trick for missile-placing? I recently played a fantastic Samus. He placed missiles SO well. Any tricks?
Pi
Smash Hero
Comes with experience, but you should be looking to get them out there safely at least.
Dynamism?
Smash Champion
Shoot 5 times faster than the physics allow. That will solve all problems.
Today I played some Marth and Ganon as Samus (BO10 used them but he's alright with everyone lol) and didn't really have trouble with either of them, but they each have stupid easy things to do to Samus in completely different ways. I think it's about the same disadvantage. :\
Today I played some Marth and Ganon as Samus (BO10 used them but he's alright with everyone lol) and didn't really have trouble with either of them, but they each have stupid easy things to do to Samus in completely different ways. I think it's about the same disadvantage. :\
Pi
Smash Hero
I'd be okay with that
It is pretty dumb
You have to learn their playstyles really quickly to stand a chance.
It is pretty dumb
You have to learn their playstyles really quickly to stand a chance.
AIDS
Smash Lord
Only 2 players here are saying marth is not harder then Ganon. Just pointing it out that most samus players vote marth is harder.
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
most means nothing if most are not that good or have not faced a good ganon/marth
not saying that anyone is not good
just pointing out the flaw in that statement
for the record i think marth is probably harder than ganon for pretty much the same reason darrel said
not saying that anyone is not good
just pointing out the flaw in that statement
for the record i think marth is probably harder than ganon for pretty much the same reason darrel said
Pluplue
Smash Ace
its not a flaw. majority rules.
TheLifeRuiner
Smash Lord
majority rules means nothing if the majority is wrong
resTy
Smash Champion
If you push skill aside and just look at the character MU, Marth is significantly tougher for Samus.
I think this fact has been established for a long time now -_-
Next topic :')
I think this fact has been established for a long time now -_-
Next topic :')
Pi
Smash Hero
You could say that same thing for every marth matchup.
He wins, he out ranges everyone, no body can touch him.
That is not a valid argument.
Marth and Ganon are both hard
gonna stop posting about which is harder
AIDS
Smash Lord
Well, if you consider Fox, whose shine can cancel any move at the game (except grabs), he could cancel all of Marth's moves. If we're going to go down the "frame perfect" road, then I would have to say
That is not a valid argument.
In my opinion, Marth is tougher at the pro-am level. Ganon is not easy by any stretch, but Marths who know the match up give my Samus a harder time.
Next topic: Uptilt is the best move in the game.
Geist
Smash Master
Lately I've been trying to push the envelope of my missile game, because imo missiles are A) unreliable on their own and B) are hard to follow up if your opponent knows their matchup.
Does anyone do missile shenanigans that you think no one else does?
For example I love hiding my missiles behind platforms, and I've never seen anyone
purposefully do it.
I know IHSB does that sexy wall jump > missile/charge beam. So I stole that.
EDIT: In reply to above topic:
yes.
Does anyone do missile shenanigans that you think no one else does?
For example I love hiding my missiles behind platforms, and I've never seen anyone
purposefully do it.
I know IHSB does that sexy wall jump > missile/charge beam. So I stole that.
EDIT: In reply to above topic:
yes.