• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Everyone look it's a new sticky!!! - Ness video critique thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
Around 1:09 in that first video, you jumped up at Marth using your fair. Unless he's close enough to the edge, try to avoid that because he's f-smash could have possibly killed you. Basically avoid doing that at all. Never run off stage to avoid getting hit by Marth, either. He can easily push you out further. As for the ending, it was briliiant. That's usually the case.

You're probably a lot better now since you said that was from a month ago. I believe you did fine. As for Marth, he should use more fair, nair and grab. Not necessarily a grab release, just grabs in general since it gives different options.

Okay, in the first video and this one, I saw Marth pull off some shield poking. Blocking and rolling that aren't great enough options. Maybe blocking it is, but don't roll. Instead try to jump backwards out of it. Another thing, when you use Ness' d-throw, you don't always need to follow it up with fair. You can use PK Thunder, run back and come at him with any aerial and so on. I'm just giving you different options.

I don't see much problems with your Ness. You grab a lot, though. There's nothing wrong with that, but don't over do it. I say this because people will start to spotdodge that eventually when they figure that you like grabbing. You have nice spacing, too.

I'd say use more nair, but it's Marth and I've been there and it doesn't work as effectively as fair does against him. One more thing. Whenever your opponent is off stage, don't always go out for a dair spike. Try to use some PK Thunder or something. Perhaps some tailwhipping. Glad to see PK Thunder usage as well as spaced PK Fire.
 

Sonicario

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
10
Location
Philipines
Uhm, I hope its not too much to ask, but I would like to have my Ness criticized again. I just wanna know if I've improved.

These are the old matches I asked you guys to criticize.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvXy_ujAGTM vs Fox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHSnTHA07HM vs Falco

These are the new videos, the matches were taken a few days ago..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt5FoV8B00Y vs Falco (there was some lag in this match, but it was bearable. Also forgive 1:05 to 1:16..)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9IPZWqV7YM vs Meta knight (My friend's not really good with MK though)
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
If these are from different times from the other two previous matches, I'd say you improved. Nice spacing, good use of PKT, fair and nair, stuff like that. The only thing I really noticed out of these two were the early back throws and obvious grabs. In the first video, you probably attempted four grabs before actually grabbing Falco. If you go to grab once and you miss, try something else instead. If you continuously attempt to grab and miss, the other player may notice this and try to punish you.

As for the back throw, you used it too early. If you can get opponent in PKF, go with a grab and d-throw. If anything else, use your f-throw or u-throw. Save your b-throw for the last part. If you're not seen as someone who is grab happy, chances are you can get an easy b-throw. But people like to assume Ness is only about killing his opponents with his b-throw. Show them something different.
 

Sonicario

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
10
Location
Philipines
Thanks again Uffe, for criticizing my Ness.
The only thing I really noticed out of these two were the early back throws and obvious grabs. In the first video, you probably attempted four grabs before actually grabbing Falco. If you go to grab once and you miss, try something else instead. If you continuously attempt to grab and miss, the other player may notice this and try to punish you.
I'm still getting used to Ness' grabs, I'll be trying to use Ness' grabs more carefully next time..

As for the back throw, you used it too early. If you can get opponent in PKF, go with a grab and d-throw. If anything else, use your f-throw or u-throw. Save your b-throw for the last part.
Well alright, I sorta have a bad habit only using b-throw sometimes, but I'll start using it for last now.

If you're not seen as someone who is grab happy, chances are you can get an easy b-throw. But people like to assume Ness is only about killing his opponents with his b-throw. Show them something different.
Ok, I'll be trying to become less predictable so I won't be read easily.
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
Thanks again Uffe, for criticizing my Ness.
That sounds horrible the way you wrote it. XD But no problem. :)

I'm still getting used to Ness' grabs, I'll be trying to use Ness' grabs more carefully next time. Well alright, I sorta have a bad habit only using b-throw sometimes, but I'll start using it for last now.
It looks like you use Luigi, so make a transition between two or more characters can be tricky, but possibly helpful.

Ok, I'll be trying to become less predictable so I won't be read easily.
Oh, no, you did good. But yeah, staying unpredictable is the way to go. I was just saying don't always go for a b-throw. I tend to save that the most for when nothing else seems to be working. In which most cases nobody will know what you're going to do next.
 

Sonicario

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
10
Location
Philipines
That sounds horrible the way you wrote it. XD But no problem. :)
I.. err.., meant to say thank you in a positive way. Sorry I made it sound horrible.
It looks like you use Luigi, so make a transition between two or more characters can be tricky, but possibly helpful.
Okays, I'll take note of this.
Oh, no, you did good. But yeah, staying unpredictable is the way to go. I was just saying don't always go for a b-throw. I tend to save that the most for when nothing else seems to be working. In which most cases nobody will know what you're going to do next.
Ohh, okay.
 

xoxokev

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
1,431
Location
California, baby
you're tj from that combo vid?

anyways, use the psi magnet lag cancel whenever you absorb a projectile

@nintenjoe: looks like MATS is the one that needs critiquing. lol@ his lucky edgeguard on yoshi's island. if you're looking for critiquing its probably more helpful if you post vids of you losing. but one thing that i did notice is that you went for the spike a lot of times when you were coming back to the stage, you were lucky he didnt just let go of the ledge and bair/dair you for the gimp. its good to use dair when recovering every once and a while, but try to mix it up w/ ness' other amazing aerials
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
@ NintenJoe: From the looks of it, NintenJoe has a pretty good Ness. The Marth may have not been that good, but I saw a lot of variety in NintenJoe's game. Like that pivot grab. Seriously? You made it look so easy. Keep doing that! There were three things I noticed, but I can only remember two at this moment. First off, don't back throw early. As you can see on Yoshi's Island, you threw him backwards twice and he survived both times.

Another thing is that when he's on the edge, you went for him and tried to gimp him but ended up almost costing the match. Do your best to avoid that. If they're going to hand on the stage, my advice to you is to either use your Yo-yo for a stage spike, PK Fire or PK Thunder at a distance. Just never jump at him if he's going to do that. He could have won that match had he continued to do that.

Overall I think I could learn a few things from your Ness. There were things I thought you were going to do and you did something else, which was good.

@ PsychoNess: You were doing pretty good against that Mario. But don't use your PSI Magnet near the character unless you lag cancel it. At 2:52 of that video, that's where your recovering went wrong. When the other player is that far back, never attack when you're coming back. You should have just gotten up on the stage and you would have avoided that f-smash.

I have no idea what happened at the end of that match, but I have to say not being able to grab the edge even though you never used PKT2 was stupid. You should have definitely grabbed that. I'm not saying that it was your fault. I'm saying that it was stupid the game itself didn't allow that. All I can say is you should've used PKT2, but nobody knew that was going to happen.

Anyway, for Mario's F.L.U.D.D., use your PSI Magnet if needed. It stalls Ness in the air and I don't think the water pushes Ness out of his PSI Magnet, which means no screwing over for you. :) Anyway, for the most part, you should probably use less PSI Magnet when a Fireball comes at you and just jump it and space a little better and I think you'll do fine.
 

NintenJoe

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
893
Location
Chicago, Illinois
@nintenjoe: looks like MATS is the one that needs critiquing. lol@ his lucky edgeguard on yoshi's island. if you're looking for critiquing its probably more helpful if you post vids of you losing. but one thing that i did notice is that you went for the spike a lot of times when you were coming back to the stage, you were lucky he didnt just let go of the ledge and bair/dair you for the gimp. its good to use dair when recovering every once and a while, but try to mix it up w/ ness' other amazing aerials
These were just the first videos I uploaded because they were the first we recorded. I'll try and get some more matches up later. As for the spiking thing, I'm trying to get out of the habit of doing that since it only works 1/20 times and PKT is much safer. I tried PKF a lot in that video but I kept forgetting I couldn't hit him on the ledge in Yoshi's Island until it was too late. Thanks for the advice. :)

@ NintenJoe: From the looks of it, NintenJoe has a pretty good Ness. The Marth may have not been that good, but I saw a lot of variety in NintenJoe's game. Like that pivot grab. Seriously? You made it look so easy. Keep doing that! There were three things I noticed, but I can only remember two at this moment. First off, don't back throw early. As you can see on Yoshi's Island, you threw him backwards twice and he survived both times.

Another thing is that when he's on the edge, you went for him and tried to gimp him but ended up almost costing the match. Do your best to avoid that. If they're going to hand on the stage, my advice to you is to either use your Yo-yo for a stage spike, PK Fire or PK Thunder at a distance. Just never jump at him if he's going to do that. He could have won that match had he continued to do that.

Overall I think I could learn a few things from your Ness. There were things I thought you were going to do and you did something else, which was good.
After I integrated PK Fire and Thunder into my game more, I forgot about the yo-yo. I'll try to use more Usmash, especially for edgeguarding, but my friends tend to pick Yoshi's Island. The slanted area near to platforms really throws me off...

I noticed that I relied a little too much on Bthrow as well. I try to save it for a killing move, but I got a little clumsy that match. Thanks for the advice and compliments. :)
 

joors

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
3
Well this is my first time posting on this forums.

I'm not new to smash or ness at all but I figure if I'm still losing sometimes I can use the critique. :)

I used to main as lucas but then tried out ness and hated it because it was so different and he was so much slower. I kept switching between the two and then decided to use ness as my new main even though it was hard to get used to. I learned to run usmash and to short hop as lucas but it's sooo much more effective with Ness.

Anyway, I'd appreciate advice or compliments. :)

I'm a huge grapple-*****. I remember reading somewhere that it's bad to grapple a lot but it seems to really work well for me.. Also I've never been to any tournaments of any kind though I'd like to attend one because I'd like to see how I compare to other players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ719hUHWoU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AusdGaQuVeY
 

Neon Ness

Designated Procrastinator
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
3,631
I only watched the first one, but here's what I gathered.

You have some spacing issues. And against Marth especially you've got to know how to space properly. A lot of times when returning to the stage, I noticed that you'd use fair, but drift towards Marth as you were doing it. That just puts you up close in punishing range in the air, as well as when you land. Do you use the c-stick for aerial moves? If not, I'd recommend trying it; you'll be able to use forward air while moving backwards more easily. When returning to the stage, you want to hit your opponent with the very edge of Forward air and drift backwards in the air, just to knock them away so you can recover or grab the ledge safely. In general it's unsafe to fair and then land right next to the enemy too often, that risks being grabbed or otherwise punished.

Also... yeah. At one point I counted seven missed grabs. :ohwell: If something doesn't work the first or second time, move on. As you already know, he predicted most of those and knew to sidestep. Being predictable is one of the worst things you can do, and looking at his % there were a ton of other KO options open to you. Don't always rely on back throw for the KO, if they see it coming they can avoid it just like that... Also, try not to use back throw before around 120%, otherwise it'll be stale when you really need it and won't KO.

Overall you made good use of Ness' aerials (except I didn't see much/any neutral air...? It's his fastest aerial...), didn't spam PK Fire... try out more edgeguarding options, consider PK Flash and sourspot dair in the future. Too much sliding up smash, you even punished with it once when you could have used a side smash. Use sparingly, at most...

Really, good Ness, just rough around the edges.
 

CarVac

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
270
Location
Harvey Mudd College
Remember: You should SDI out of Pika's dsmash (sdi upwards to get out). That way you won't get the knockback of the full-duration move, and take less damage.
 

joors

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
3
Thanks for the replies! :D

What other edgeguarding options do I have/should I use? And I know PK Flash isn't useless, but when is it good to use it? And I have no idea what 'sourspot dair' is (I know it's down air but... sour spot I don't know about) and I have a LOT of trouble doing nair. Is there an easier way than just not pressing a direction and A? Or is it just something I'm going to have to learn myself and not press on the joystick.

I have never used the c-stick. Mostly because it's a bit awkward for me to use(and kinda feels like cheating, haha, which I know it, necessarily isn't.) I'll try to start using it for air moves.

I'm usually reluctant to use side smash because of how slow it is. Do you have any recommendations to use instead of running upsmash?

And lastly what's SDI or DI? I see it on a lot of guides but I never saw anything about what it is exactly. :x
 

CarVac

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
270
Location
Harvey Mudd College
PK Flash is when you are guarding against people with predictable recoveries, such as Ganondorf. It can also just scare people away.

Dair is sweetspotted if you connect on the first frame (it hits them downwards really hard). If you miss, but hit while his foot is already extended, it's "sourspotted" (not as good as sweetspotted), and hits them sideways. Both are good with Ness's dair, unlike many moves that require sweetspotting (Zelda's fair/bair, Falcon's knee).

Nair: If you want to be able to nair while moving in one direction or another, you have to use a custom controller layout. Set the c-stick to "Attack" instead of "Smash". Then, if you want to nair, you can hit the c-stick diagonally. You lose the ability to smash attack with the c-stick, though you said you never did. Try that.

When you connect with a move, especially multihit moves, the character freezes a bit before knockback, a time called "hitlag." During that time, you can hit the control stick and you will move a little bit in that direction. That is SDI. With Pikachu's downsmash, there is a lot of freeze time, and you can SDI up and out by repeatedly tapping upwards.

DI is holding a direction on the control stick when you get out of hitlag. It does not affect the speed at which you are launched, but you can adjust the direction by holding the control stick perpendicularly to the knockback direction. You want to send yourself towards the farthest away blastzone: usually the corners. So, if you get hit by a move that sends you straight up in the middle of Final Destination, you can hold right or left to send yourself towards a corner. There is a little extra distance you can go diagonally before dying, so DI-ing can save you a stock sometimes.

Ness's bair is infamous because it ususally sends you towards a corner, so DIing at all usually kills you quicker unless you're very close to one of the blastzones.
 

joors

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 22, 2009
Messages
3
Oohhh. Okay that makes sense as to why people fly to the side when I use dair sometimes.

Thanks a bunch. I think I understand most of what you said. :p
I think I've been doing DI/SDI for awhile without realizing exactly what it was.

Is there another way to do Nair without changing the control layout? Most tournaments don't allow you to change the settings, do they?
 

Eagleye893

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
2,452
Location
Earth
NNID
isJolTz
3DS FC
1821-9332-2146
all tournaments technically do let you change control settings. you create a tag for yourself on the wii being used and set up controls in the options menu for a specific name. mostly people just turn tap jump off though.

the way i nair is quickly let go of the direction, press A then quickly again move towards the direction i want to go. that's basically the only way to do it for me... when jumping, its easy just to slide your thumb from the X button to the A button to do aerials immediately, which is how i do the double aerial shuffled nair > nair or Nair > ?

If you are going to set up your controls to have tap jump off, its really easy to learn how to jump cancel a Usmash (press up as you slide your thumb quickly from X to A). this allows you to do an upsmash OoS, which helps in some cases. but my favorite thing to do with jump canceling an upsmash with Tap jump off is to reverse hyphen usmash.... I think it's good.... mindgame-y and all. some people expect to have you just run up and upsmash them, but when they put up their shield they are like, "oh, he reversed himself.... how weird." and take down their shield (how i use it is get just out of range of a grab or quick hit from another attack) and you release it, unexpectedly hitting on the weird range of the backswing.... don't use this too often really... its only useful in rare situations.

really, if you need any help getting better, just check out the guides for ness. they are really useful if you need any help... pk cross has nearly all the advanced techniques...
 

Eagleye893

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
2,452
Location
Earth
NNID
isJolTz
3DS FC
1821-9332-2146
I'm not accomplished, but i can help out. the only reason i do bad is i slip up once or twice when inputting stuff to do... like i'll accidentally go a couple of degrees the wrong way when using PKT and get edgehogged. I can truly help others better than I can help myself... which replays or where are they?
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
That's pretty cool. Shaky apparently knows how to deal with Olimar. At least the last time I chatted with him, he made it sound easy.
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
Try to tone it down on swinging your Bat and using PK Thunder 2. I saw some parts in the second video where you launched yourself at your opponent with PKT2. Most players would block that right away. Another thing, when recovering back to the stage, try not to attack your opponent head on unless that's the only option you've got.
 

Eagleye893

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
2,452
Location
Earth
NNID
isJolTz
3DS FC
1821-9332-2146
As I will say to everybody, needs more PSI Magnet....

As actual criticism, when you are near the person who is continually hitting with a multi-hit attack like fox's A combo, try to SDI inwards and up, trying to get off a uair when you reach them... within reason of course...

in my past experience, a FF'd moving forward fair has nearly no range and will almost never hit the opponent below and in front of you unless you plan accordingly...

more sourspot nair? (personal opinion, for possible combo setups)

... i saw you use your yoyo when you were well away from the opponent.... try to do it only when they are nearby and you know you will hit before they can punish...

other than that pretty good! I'm mr. critic, so don't mind a couple of the things i say are wrong, because they may work more often for you than they do for me.
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
If you think your opponent wasn't that hard to deal with, then yes.
 

mobilisq

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
668
Location
IA
basically im rusty because im only allowed to play him if i get him on random

so i probably have a better wario or yoshi or something

so yeah get better opponents
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,500
Location
Fresno
If you've got wifi, go for that. If there are tournaments around where you live, go to those. Never limit yourself with just one option.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom