Everyone look it's a new sticky!!! - Ness video critique thread

[Levitas]

From now on, instead of making new threads for us to critique your lucas ness, post them here.

That's all there is to it.

2 vids per post makes things easier for the people critiquing and will get you better advice, so pick representative vids and only a couple at a time

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I like this thread already.

 

[FireKirby7]

Thank you Levitas :embarrass

I got a bunch of replays of me, but they are all in thier .bin format.
I'm getting my capture card in June, but until then, anyone want to upload some for me? They are all online matches, unfortunately. D:

 

[xoxokev]

Parts of a wifi set:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AojGWmfJ2Pk&fmt=18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2wh6wQTM18&fmt=18

 

[mobilisq]

ttly sux yo

 

[Uffe]

I'm not sure how good you are against ZSS, but try to air dodge more.

 

[Eagleye893]

more nair/fair/bair than dair, try not to always use standing up attack, ... it's not bad, just mistakes that i would guess were based on lag.

wait just a little after jumping out of water before using dair... again, im assuming lag here

 

[Ness Brawler]

I would have done more dashes, pkt, and pkf. Otherwise, good vids.

 

[AvariceX]

"Don't use PK Fire"
-Ally

I wish he wasn't right, but he is... sorta. PK Fire works really well against people who don't know how to deal with it (which is most people), but against people who know how to deal with it (like Ally) it does nothing. Between all the games I've played against him I'm sure I've attempted over 100 PK Fires (because like I said it works really well against most people), but I'm also sure I haven't done more than a combined total of 20% damage from all of those PK Fires.

Eventually people will learn to deal with PK Fire (read: learn to DI), it's best to move away from it now so we aren't caught off-guard when it actually happens.

 

[Uffe]

No. Use PK Fire. I don't care if some top pro Snake main says otherwise. People may DI out of it, but when doing so, it leaves them open to other options. If you're going to use PK Fire, don't use it so close to your opponent.

 

[FightAdamantEevee]

Yeah, PK Fire usually works for me as long as it hits. If they can't deal with it, then of course I'm left to my wide array of options. If they do, I just chase them down with PKT. It's never been much of a problem for me.

 

[Uffe]

What I was saying is even if it does hit, it still works. And seeing I have an opponent I play offline with, which is my brother and knows how to DI properly out of PK Fire, it still works. Of course there are characters like Toon Link that can just jump out of it right away, a heavy character is going to be in there a little longer than a light character. Yeah, I understand Ally is really good, but who here mains Ness? You or him?

 

[TheVince]

Ally doesn't main Ness, therefore you shouldn't take Ally's advice to play Ness. >.<
Between PK Jump, B-sticking, and Firebounding, PK Fire is a great move that shouldn't be removed from your arsenal.

 

[smash64]

i play with Ally alot since he moved to the midwest ill be playing him again at the midwest championships

 

[AvariceX]

Ally doesn't main Ness, therefore you shouldn't take Ally's advice to play Ness. >.<
Between PK Jump, B-sticking, and Firebounding, PK Fire is a great move that shouldn't be removed from your arsenal.

Ally doesn't play Ness, but he plays against me more than enough to know just what Ness can do. Ally will almost always powershield PK-Fire, it's nearly impossible to even land it on him, even then I've seen him DI out after the second hit when he was at 0% and after the first hit when he was at about 15% (keep in mind how heavy Snake is here), so tell me; does that seem like a useful move to you? Eventually more people will learn to powershield like that, and more people will learn to DI like that.

Like I already said though, PK fire is great against people who haven't learned those things yet.

 

[Uffe]

If your PK Fire is getting blocked, perhaps you use it to a point where it's obvious. And if you're getting 15% on him from 0%, then that sounds pretty useful in my opinion. Unless I read that the wrong way. I still think PK Fire is a useful move. Probably not as useful as PK Thunder, but not as worthless as PK Flash if you ask me.

 

[AvariceX]

You definitely read that wrong.

I said at 0% he can DI out after the second hit. On a different PK Fire used at 15% he can DI out after the first hit.

Anyway... PK Fire has its uses for sure. I wouldn't say I use it to a point where it's obvious, and I'm using it less and less now, and almost always pivoting it. Ally is just so good at reading people he makes you look stupid and predictable no matter who you are. I know I've said it twice before but against people who aren't Ally it's pretty good...I'm just preparing myself for when more Allys start to emerge

 

[smash64]

i have played Ally and what you say is true lol, im gonna try and MM him again jun 20th at Midwest championships to see how i do again

 

[Sonicario]

..Well, since its better not to make a new thread just to ask people to criticize my Ness, I think I'lld just post my videos here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLAGZWPvnfk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sMYT1mJ-to&feature=channel

Sorry for the bad quality, I don't have a capture card... yet.

 

[Uffe]

For you, you lack variety. When your opponent is off the stage, you never bother using PK Thunder on them. I know both characters had a reflector, but you could have still attempted to use PK Thunder on them. I noticed you don't airdodge enough and you use your bair quite early and make it obvious that you're going to use it. Another thing I noticed is that you don't grab enough and your PK Fire isn't used correctly. So, here are a few things to work on.

• PK Thunder - Use it to annoy your opponent. If they complain that you spam, who cares? You want to win, right? Just be sure not to use it so close to your opponent.
• PK Fire - You tend to PK Jump but not actually hit anybody. Try to use it in unimaginable ways that you never thought were possible.
• Aerial Attacks - You used uair quite nicely. Try to use more SH > fair, dair or nair and try to use less bair. Save that for killing.
• Grabbing - There was a part in the first video I saw where you could have pivot grabbed. Also, Fox is pretty light, so you could have won that match with one simple back throw, believe it or not.
• Dodging - Use it more. You're not playing Super Smash Bros. or Melee anymore.

As for your friend, he was quite predictable. Often times he'd f-smash. When you were close, he'd d-smash. He'd also run at you a number of times and jump at you with his nair. Or was it fair? I don't know. All I know is that he likes to do a mid-air kick on you. Anyway, as far as killing you went, he'd try to u-smash you. Those are basically the only attacks he was using against you. I apologize if I sounded like an ***.

 

[Sonicario]

Thanks for criticizing my Ness, I'll be working on my flaws I guess..
And umm..

Dodging - Use it more. You're not playing Super Smash Bros. or Melee anymore.

But I never played Melee or Super Smash Bros.. Alright I'll dodge more.

PK Fire - You tend to PK Jump but not actually hit anybody. Try to use it in unimaginable ways that you never thought were possible.

Unimaginable ways huh.. err ok, I'll experiment with PK fire.

PK Thunder - Use it to annoy your opponent. If they complain that you spam, who cares? You want to win, right? Just be sure not to use it so close to your opponent.

I don't find using PK thunder that very useful, but alright..

 

[CarVac]

Damage on an opponent is very useful.

 

[Uffe]

Trust me, PK Thunder is your friend. You can find some Ness videos here: Ness Video Thread: under new management

Most of it is probably old old stuff, but maybe you'll get an idea or better understanding on how to improve your character. During a friendlies match, just do whatever. See what works and what doesn't. As for PK Fire, you can reverse it in mid air. It's fairly tricky, though. My favorite would be SH > double bair > reversed PKF.

Try not to have a certain playstyle, either. There are some methods you'll most likely use as a Ness main, or just using Ness in general, but try to avoid being predictable. I'm not saying you are, I'm just saying that if you are predictable, other players might read you like a book and know what to do. Recently I fought someone who used Lucas and they'd do something like running to the end of the stage, awaiting me and then use PKF. I caught on quick to the point I actually felt bad.

I tried helping him out, but he said he didn't want it. Anyway, that's about it from me, I guess. If you need any help in general, just ask the Ness mains. Also, there's another topic for wifi to see if you can get a few pointers during matches. One more thing. Try to see what your opponent uses the most as in attack, blocking, dodging. Figure out their pattern and trump it with an effective attack or grab.

 

[TheVince]

..Well, since its better not to make a new thread just to ask people to criticize my Ness, I think I'lld just post my videos here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLAGZWPvnfk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sMYT1mJ-to&feature=channel

Sorry for the bad quality, I don't have a capture card... yet.

Yeah... that Fox wasn't that great. All he did was spam his smashes! (The only time I saw that he used a tilt was at 0:23 where he used a dtilt ). You can try punishing smash-spammers with you tilts, since they are faster. Which brings up my main point... You didn't use any tilts either! Ftilt is pretty fast and has decent knockback; you should definitely use it. Also, you never really used much of your smashes... You threw in the bat a few times. Ness' yo-yo is very good to use when your opponent keeps just dodging around you.

Second, between 0:55 and 1:24 you were getting completely owned . You just kind of kept jumping around... . You kind of overused your aerials (although Ness' aerials are very nice). Once again, just try and use ftilt/usmash when he is in front of you, or dsmash when he keeps rolling behind you. You used you jab nicely, although he might not know you can shield the third jab. (I'm pretty sure you can.) The other thing was during that sequence you kept doing normal PKT2 to recover, which left you really open. Try watching Ref's PKT2 video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lpdm8wgSNg) to see how to use it more effectively. A lot of the times you didn't even need to PKT2; you could of just air dodged and grabbed on to the edge to recover.

Lastly just do what Uffe said. Your friend was very predictable with what moves he would use. Fox is very light, so bthrow kills at around 110-120% on him. Try using some retreating fairs also (Short Hop --> analog stick going backwards stick going forwards). This will help with some spacing factors. What I find that also helped my Ness game a LOT was EB360's guide, if you haven't already (http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=169865). It has a ton of advanced techniques that help ALOT. I hope this helps! Good luck beating your friend next time .

EDIT: Forgot to watch the second video lol.

Basically the same stuff though.

Less Bairs
More Tilts
More Fairs
More dodging and shielding

You had a nice bair chain into a dair at 1:08 (Too bad it didn't kill >.<).

You can really take advantage of all of his smash spamming if you use more tilts...

Once again: Good luck

 

[Sonicario]

Thanks guys for helping me, this information really helps.

Trust me, PK Thunder is your friend. You can find some Ness videos here: Ness Video Thread: under new management

Well alright then, most of the time when I use PK Thunder I end up saving my opponent (yes I know I'm doing it wrong). I'll check the video thread too I guess..

Try not to have a certain playstyle, either. There are some methods you'll most likely use as a Ness main, or just using Ness in general, but try to avoid being predictable.

Its kinna hard for me to change playstyles, but I'll try to.

You didn't use any tilts either! Ftilt is pretty fast and has decent knockback; you should definitely use it. Also, you never really used much of your smashes... You threw in the bat a few times. Ness' yo-yo is very good to use when your opponent keeps just dodging around you.

Alright, I'll use his tilts more (f-tilt is that fast enough to stop Fox's smashes?). As for using Ness' smashes.. yeah I think I'll use them more.

Second, between 0:55 and 1:24 you were getting completely owned . You just kind of kept jumping around... . You kind of overused your aerials (although Ness' aerials are very nice).

Personally, I prefer the air.. ok ok I'll utilize Ness' ground game

Try watching Ref's PKT2 video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lpdm8wgSNg) to see how to use it more effectively. A lot of the times you didn't even need to PKT2; you could of just air dodged and grabbed on to the edge to recover.

That video was pretty helpful, thanks for showing me that. Ill check out EB360's guide as well. (Looks like theres a lot of Advance Techniques..)

 

[Uffe]

Don't get discouraged if you're feeling that way. We're here to help. C: As for PKT saving people. If you want a quick tip, tailwhip your opponents with PKT. If there is one thing I know about PKT, it's that it annoys the heck out of your opponent. Anyway, tailwhipping is good because if your opponent tries to hit your PKT, you can turn it and they'll get zapped by it. :D

 

[Cacti]

I don't think that Ness' ftilt is fast enough to stop Fox' usmash or dsmash, as those are extremely fast, but his fsmash is slow and laggy. You should've shielded it and punished it with a grab, hyphen smash, or dash attack to setup your aerial game.

Gonna watch the falco video now... I'll edit this post in a moment.

EDIT: Ok, now that I've seen both videos, I think that you need more utilt. Spotdodge > utilt is good for dodging predictable moves, and maybe you could use some more fair. SH dair walls are also good. Like the other people said, you need to use PKT more, and less bair.

 

[Meccs]

First vids up here, looking forward to improving .
if it matters, my controls are:
everything the same except Y is "special" for PK Fire jumping.
I'm really starting to love PK Fire > Dthrow > fair cause either your opponent gets hit by the chain of fair, or they DI (right use of the term?) behind you to avoid the fair, and I just meet them with a bair :D . or if your lucky they'll do both XD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tTodaUQorY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4UK8WQAfYM

 

[Ref]

Throw more stuff.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

throw More Stuff.

:0







.

 

[Ref]

Die and leave no corpse. That is the way of the Garo.

Likewise throw stuff and leave no openings. That is the way of the Link.

 

[TheVince]

Die and leave no corpse. That is the way of the Garo.

Likewise throw stuff and leave no openings. That is the way of the Link.

Eh wot? I guess I'll never understand Ref lol.

@NessLuigi:
Pretty good Ness there . You used dair a lot when your opponent was on the ground. They didn't really do anything so I guess it's ok . Nice yo-yo spike at the end of the first one .

All I can say is I noticed that you didn't air dodge very much. Whenever you were trying to get back on the ground and your opponent was under you, you daired or baired. I guess this isn't necessarily bad, but airdodging to get back on to the ground would make you less predictable. Also, try varying your follow-ups to dthrows. Fair and bair are good follow-ups, but maybe try uairing or SH -> Air Dodge -> Fastfall -> Utilt/usmash and surprise your opponent.

Good luck in the future .

 

[Cacti]

It was hard to tell things you had wrong, as that Marth player didn't seem very good. Maybe you could try making your PK Fire and bairs less predictable, as a better player might have been able to see it coming and counter it. More PKT too, extra damage is always good.

 

[TheVince]

Yeah.. I agree with Cacti. If that Marth would of used counter you would have been in trouble. When a Marth starts to recognize when you are going to bair, its always fun to jump at them backwards then just airdodge then hit them with the bat when the counter ends.

 

[FireKirby7]

Yeah.. I agree with Cacti. If that Marth would of used counter you would have been in trouble. When a Marth starts to recognize when you are going to bair, its always fun to jump at them backwards then just airdodge then hit them with the bat when the counter ends.

It's also fun to mess with Marths that try to counter every PKT2.
If you get an opponent like that, go up to them and do the double loop PKT2. The first loop will trick and convince them to use counter. They feel so dumb when it hits XD
I wouldn't try it more than once in a match though.

 

[Uffe]

Ref's been playing some Majora's Mask, I see. Anyway, from the video, it looks like that Marth lacks Ness experience or something. I could be wrong, though. I noticed a couple of things.

1. PK Fire - You tend to use it in the most inconveniant areas. In other words, you're using it too close to your enemies and there is a lag there that may some day cost you a match if you use it in terrible spots. Like I told Sonicario, be creative with PK Fire. Don't just use it for the sake of using it. Do something with it that may actually work.
2. Rolling - I saw it, saw it and then BAM, it finally happened! You roll a lot. That's a bad habit. I know Ness has an okay roll, but in the second video, what I expected to happen had finally happened. You got hit by Luigi's f-smash. Why? You rolled for no reason and you rolled because it's a bad habit, that's why. If anything, roll AWAY from your opponent, otherwise spotdodge.
3. Predictable attempts - What I mean by this is that you intentionally aim for your opponent once you come down from the air. You try to dair your opponent. Sometimes it works and other times it doesn't. In the second video, and if I recall, the first video, your opponent spotdodged your dair and followed it up with an u-smash. So avoid trying to hit your opponent that way. Instead, move around and throw them off.
4. PK Thunder - You don't use it often. Especially when you have your opponent off the stage. There are better ways of killing your opponent off stage, but while they're at low percent, using PK Thunder doesn't hurt. Well it hurts them, but that's about it. Feel free to go for a dair spike. Speaking of spikes, nice stage spike on the first video.
5. Grab - Grab more. Just don't over do it.

 

[Meccs]

thanks for the advice, guys
And yeah I noticed I tend to dair way to much.

 

[Uffe]

Oh, there's nothing wrong with dair. I actually used to do what you did in those videos quite a lot in the past. All I was saying about the dair is that if you're sent flying and you're going to return, don't always come down with a dair from above because chances are you'll get punished really bad. Just a quick tip, too. This has nothing to do with what you did in the videos, but whenever you're coming back to the stage, make sure you know what your opponent is attempting.

An example for fighting Marth would be that if you were to try and land back on the stage, Marth would move away from the edge and try to hit you with an f-smash. If he does that, just go for the edge. Don't feel like you should have to attack head on just to return to the stage.

 

[smash64]

im glad i beat some Marths at the mwc championships i hate Marth so much!

 

[Uffe]

Congrats on owning many Marth's.