Ethnicity

[Yink]

Link to original post: [drupal=2806]Ethnicity [/drupal]



Recently, I've noticed people make a lot of stupid jokes and statements about my ethnicity. I'm Persian.

I was in a World Cultures class at my college, and we were talking about the Middle East. I was very excited to hear about it because I wanted to see what my Professor and peers thought about people living there.

We discussed Iran (where I'm from) and almost everyone in the room made some sort of remark about terrorists. I can understand that, but then someone even went so far as to say all the common people are linked to terrorists somehow.

This is really shocking to me. I've also had someone in a store ask to check my bag before I left.

Even when people tell jokes it's annoying. At first it was funny. I have a Super Mario bag, and the inside is lined with pictures of the Bomb guys. My friend saw it and said, "There's bombs in your bag!". As stupid as a statement to say out loud as that was, she talked to my professor and told him that they weren't real but he still insisted that he looked in. He dumped everything out, DURING CLASS. It was very embarrassing.

Sorry to rant, it just makes me upset.

 

[Joker490Frozen]

Yeah I know what you mean I can't go inside a store without the clerk staring at me the whole time I have been accused of stealing just cause I had my hands inside my jacket even though I wasn't the only one. I can also take jokes and stuff but sometimes I think they get a little out of hand.

 

[ndayday]

No idea why, but that disgusts me.

I'd like to believe that it was mandatory to check your bag on both occasions, but it simply isn't likely. It's sad that people here (and everywhere, really) sort people into groups like that. Whenever I think about this stuff I always get to a dead end and just end up shaking my head in disappointment.

 

[El Nino]

I empathize. I make fun of my own ethnicity, but that's just because I can.

Once, I was at an Indian food stand, and my friend pointed to one of the workers who was wearing a turban and said, "I see Osama!"

I looked at him and said, "Uh...not funny."

And he was like, "Oh...."

And I said, "We need to work on your racial jokes."

I get frustrated trying to talk about anything "global" with a lot of students or people in general. The U.S. public education system completely fails at offering a view of the world that does not have the U.S. in the center. So when graduates from public high school go to college and attempt to discuss world events, cultures, other societies, etc., most of them seem only able to draw on 2-D caricatures due to the very large gaps in their knowledge of other countries. The culture of the U.S. tends towards isolationist too much for my liking; I don't think it is a mentality that benefits anyone.

 

[Ishiey]

I get frustrated trying to talk about anything "global" with a lot of students or people in general. The U.S. public education system completely fails at offering a view of the world that does not have the U.S. in the center. So when graduates from public high school go to college and attempt to discuss world events, cultures, other societies, etc., most of them seem only able to draw on 2-D caricatures due to the very large gaps in their knowledge of other countries. The culture of the U.S. tends towards isolationist too much for my liking; I don't think it is a mentality that benefits anyone.

I agree with this.

It's funny in moderation and with friends and all, but some people actually mean it. And other people take these jokes seriously, because of all the media hype about terrorists and whatnot. Not cool.

 

[SuperBowser]

Once, I was at an Indian food stand, and my friend pointed to one of the workers who was wearing a turban and said, "I see Osama!"

I looked at him and said, "Uh...not funny."

And he was like, "Oh...."

And I said, "We need to work on your racial jokes."

Wow. Not sure what I'd say if someone said that.

I enjoy racist jokes with friends. But we always know we're just kidding.


Your teacher sounds like a bit of a fool though. If it were me, I'd have spoken with him after the class and told him I was unhappy with what he did. He shouldn't have emptied your bag out like that in front of an audience. It reminds of one time in an airport - we had to walk down a corridor past different checkers who would ''randomly'' stop you and open your bags. The majority of people walked down that corridor without being stopped. Everyone in my family got stopped twice each lol - pretty frustrating to open your bags in front of everyone more than once when no one else has to.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Generally racist people don't mean to be racist. Usually it's due to general ignorance about other cultures and races.

It's often the same with homophobes too. It's like they're thinking, 'Oh no, I'm going to get AIDS just by touching him' or 'I hope he doesn't start fancying me' or whatever...

Though there's one thing I don't get. How come if a black person calls another black person the n word, that's OK, but if a white person says it, everyone brands him as unforgivably racist? Surely it's bad regardless of who says it?

 

[Yink]

I get frustrated trying to talk about anything "global" with a lot of students or people in general. The U.S. public education system completely fails at offering a view of the world that does not have the U.S. in the center. So when graduates from public high school go to college and attempt to discuss world events, cultures, other societies, etc., most of them seem only able to draw on 2-D caricatures due to the very large gaps in their knowledge of other countries. The culture of the U.S. tends towards isolationist too much for my liking; I don't think it is a mentality that benefits anyone.

I agree. I also find it funny how at my college (I don't know about others) they try to get a lot of diversity. That's why I took the Culture class and boy was that ridiculous.

Thank you all for commenting. I feel a little better now that I vented. It's still wrong though but the world doesn't change that quickly (if it ever does).

 

[*JuriHan*]

People are just ignorant haters I love people from different ethnicitys... without them the world would be so boring!

 

[Neo Exdeath]

Link to original post: Ethnicity





We discussed Iran (where I'm from)

My family is from Iran.


Anyways, I guess I'm sorta lucky not to have any remarks made on my ethnicy, but it just angers me when people stereotype that everyone from the Middle East is a terrorist.

 

[Justblaze647]

The is only one race in the human species...

Homo Sapiens

 

[SuperBowser]

ethnicity refers to more than just your country of origin

 

[Teran]

My background is a bit muddled, so people see me as lots of different things.

I've been called Italian, Mexican, Mediterranean blah blah.

The lack of distinctive looks means people don't really bother. I'm kinda happy for it, since a large part of my heritage is Iranian loool.

Haters gonna hate, but I don't usually have to deal with the brainless so it never really makes a difference.

 

[ph00tbag]

I'd probably have made a similar bomb joke about your bag, too, if I had been your friend. But if someone made a big deal out of it like your professor did, I'd sure as hell have called him out and probably have questioned his legitimacy as a disinterested educator.

I feel like jokes about race and ethnicity, when properly applied in the right contexts, can serve to ease tension and create bonds despite cultural and ethnic differences. And for the most part if someone pulls a faux pas in that regard, it's more important to correct and forgive than to anathematize. Still, I feel like there are contexts where un-PC actions are absolutely intolerable, and usually, they're actually a lot more subtle and insidious than just cracking a joke about race.

Hoping that people have actually taken the time to study a culture other than their own, though, is usually a lost cause, especially in America. Unfortunately, Americans are raised in the belief (not even intentionally) that their culture is the only one that matters. I don't even really blame the schools, though. I blame our media.

 

[Yink]

I'd probably have made a similar bomb joke about your bag, too, if I had been your friend. But if someone made a big deal out of it like your professor did, I'd sure as hell have called him out and probably have questioned his legitimacy as a disinterested educator.

See, I thought it was funny but she said it too loud. That's when I got mad about it. You're right I should have talked to him but gosh, I was too embarrassed. That was a lecture with about 300 people in it!

 

[Eddie G]

See, I thought it was funny but she said it too loud. That's when I got mad about it. You're right I should have talked to him but gosh, I was too embarrassed. That was a lecture with about 300 people in it!

I would surely have threatened the professor with some kind of harassment charge, just to teach him a lesson. Of course that's assuming the higher-ups wouldn't play their cards in his favor simply because of your ethnicity. I never have to deal with it personally but racism is still rather annoying.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I hate how much my ethnicity is attacked, it's disturbing.
Why all the hate against whites? D :

 

[cutter]

Concerning Middle East countries, especially Iran and Saudi Arabia, what I hate about them is their style of government; not their actual ethnicity or anything. I seriously could care less about making a big deal about ethnicity.

It's EXACTLY what Western Europe went through in the Middle Ages. The government is ruled by a theocracy, which in turn results in tyranny, massive corruption, and archaic laws (i.e., women are treated like ****).

 

[Kantō]

well with recent issues in the world americans are learning to be more racists against middle eastern people. but not all of them are terrorists, granted some of them are, they dont all deserve the hate going around. this is actually how a met a good friend of mine from yemin, a country by egypt. it was shortly after the 911 attacks and people in my skool were bashing him due to his ethnicity, even though he is not from a terrorist known country. i was one of few kids that stood up for him( he could barley speak english at the time). to this day we have been good friends and im glad i met him. and no he didnt blow up my house.

 

[SuperBowser]

See, I thought it was funny but she said it too loud. That's when I got mad about it. You're right I should have talked to him but gosh, I was too embarrassed. That was a lecture with about 300 people in it!

woah, this was in a lecture?! I thought you were in school still.

What your lecturer did is 100% unacceptable. If one of mine did that in university, there would definitely be a complaint from somebody in the lecture hall and he would most certainly be apologizing for that

 

[Yink]

Concerning Middle East countries, especially Iran and Saudi Arabi, what I hate about them is their style of government; not their actual ethnicity or anything. I seriously could care less about making a big deal about ethnicity.

It's EXACTLY what Western Europe went through in the Middle Ages. The government is ruled by a theocracy, which in turn results in tyranny, massive corruption, and archaic laws (i.e., women are treated like ****).

Yeah I can understand why people hate the government's style over there, I don't like it either. At least my Dad doesn't make me wear anything on my head.

I will talk to my professor about this on Monday, seeing as I'm on break right now.

I had no idea this topic would get so big...

 

[Sucumbio]

That professor was outta line, he should have not done that in front of the class, but rather taken you and him out of the lecture hall and conducted the search of your belongings in private. And if he REALLY was following regulations, technically, he's supposed to alert campus security, unless he holds a class A liscense in bomb disposal. >.> ok that last bit was sarcasm, but serioulsy, he's not a cop, he's a professor, and its not his job to put himself, you, and the whole building at risk if there IS a bomb, so basically, he just wanted to humiliate you, which means he's racist, and should at least be censured, and outright fired if I were the dean.

As to why you got so many posts? cause you're a gurl nah, cause it's an important topic, racism in this country is ridiculous, as everyone's pointed out, and like the poor Japanese of the early 40's, now its Muslims, or anyone that even remotely looks Muslim, or whose name sounds Muslim. It sucks.

 

[mountain_tiger]

Concerning Middle East countries, especially Iran and Saudi Arabia, what I hate about them is their style of government; not their actual ethnicity or anything. I seriously could care less about making a big deal about ethnicity.

It's EXACTLY what Western Europe went through in the Middle Ages. The government is ruled by a theocracy, which in turn results in tyranny, massive corruption, and archaic laws (i.e., women are treated like ****).

Allegedly if you have pre-martial sex in certain Middle East countries, they cut your hands off. And if you're gay you get killed. WTF is up with that?

And really, no one is a 'pure' any ethnicity. We all come from a variety of different backgrounds to varying degrees, from many generations ago. Which is why racism in general is stupid.

 

[CRASHiC]

Me and my father fought over this at Pizza Hut one day. My father is just a biggot, despite being an intelligent, educated man. I use biggot over racist because its not the skin color, its all of religion he is against, especially Islam.

 

[NintendoMan07]

Me and my father fought over this at Pizza Hut one day. My father is just a biggot, despite being an intelligent, educated man. I use biggot over racist because its not the skin color, its all of religion he is against, especially Islam.

My parents are just about the same way, CRASHiC, plus somewhat racist. It's sad, really, but all I do is just hope they shut up about it. They won't complain to anyone's face, but of course my dad'll throw all sorts of comments around, like, for example, how the "Chinese" can't make quality stuff when he's trying to put together something he bought from a store, or say how he won't talk to that "Indian guy" on the other end of the phone line in customer service if he won't pronounce his name right. And then there's the endless amounts of spam emails I get from him...

It doesn't come up often though. It's just usually connected to talk of the economy and the healthcare bill and what not, and before you know it my parents are all about "we as Americans need to take back our country" and stuff. I'm utterly annoyed by it, and I'm sure if my parents found this they'd freak out.

The sad thing is I myself am not totally comfortable around people of other ethnicities. It's not hate, but... rather it's just the gripping fear that anything I say is gonna be offensive and even worse turned against me. I'm just so ignorant of everything that that's all I can do is just talk as little as I can and hope I don't trip up. Heck, I took 3 Spanish courses in high school that are going to waste just because I don't want to "butcher" the Spanish language in front of my Spanish-speaking friend.

 

[TigerWoods]

I just read over what everyone had to say and I have to say, I find it sad this all still happens. I myself have ended up being the butt of many a joke, since I am multi-racial. Yeah I understand an occasional honest joke just for laughs is great and all... but I've honestly have not spent a SINGLE day without someone remarking on how different I am from everyone else. I actually had a nice old lady in a grocery store tell me that I spoke surprisingly good English... which I just smiled at. Honestly I think some people live in a hole.

In asia and europe I am that spoiled rich american.
In america I robbed banks, bombed pearl harbor, owned an oriental store/dry cleaners, and mowed lawns...

 

[mountain_tiger]

This topic makes me feel grateful to not have deal with any of this stuff.

Me and my father fought over this at Pizza Hut one day. My father is just a biggot, despite being an intelligent, educated man. I use biggot over racist because its not the skin color, its all of religion he is against, especially Islam.

Any particular reason he especially dislikes Islam?

 

[Teran]

Any particular reason he especially dislikes Islam?

Probably because of its depiction in western media.

Thing is though...
I'm not influenced by the western media but I'm not a big fan of the religion either. One of my closest friends as well as some of my family are muslim but hmm...

I'll just leave it there.

 

[TigerWoods]

Probably because of its depiction in western media.

Thing is though...
I'm not influenced by the western media but I'm not a big fan of the religion either. One of my closest friends as well as some of my family are muslim but hmm...

I'll just leave it there.

Oh my god

Good luck to both of you

 

[Paradoxical]

Link to original post: [drupal=2806]Ethnicity [/drupal]

I was in a World Cultures class at my college

Pretty ironic how this incident took place in a WORLD CULTURES class.

Me and my father fought over this at Pizza Hut one day. My father is just a biggot, despite being an intelligent, educated man. I use biggot over racist because its not the skin color, its all of religion he is against, especially Islam.

My foster father is the same way, and no matter how much logic and reasoning I implement into my argument, he's too much of a bigot and elitist for me to have much effect on him.

He abhors Islam. He's Christian from a Jewish bloodline, so I'm not going to have a profound effect on the radical way he thinks any time soon.

He calls Islam the "anti-Christ", and is perodically consumed by so much hatred he practically becomes a radical Muslim himself...

I love diversity and multi-culturalism. It makes the world a much more interesting and genuine place.

See, I'm often skeptical about brain-in-a-vat theories, but if there was an omnipotent supreme being responsible for creating the human race, and he intentionally made us different skin colours and ethnicities as a means of testing us...

I just wonder. Religion is like poison, no matter what way you look at it. It causes problems. People are not seeing the big picture, which would be to work together as an entire human race in unison and harmony.

And that's never going to realistically happen, utopias are impossible, but it would be nice.

Sorry to hear about that, Yink. My foster father makes fun of my Aboriginal heritage, claiming they live in teepees and contribute nothing to society.

 

[Teran]

The problem isn't religion.

The problem is the stupidity, greed, and clan like nature of man.

Oh and elitism. People love to look down on others for whatever reason they can find. I think religion is just one thing that gives people the perfect reason to do a lot of these things, but these things aren't actually the fault of religion directly.

It's people, plain and simple. Is now, and always has been. We can never reach social utopia, nor can we truly reach the peak of man's potential in terms of cultural and intellectual progress imo. I just think we'll be gone before that happens.

So let's just make the best of what we have.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Perfect thread for me.

One main problem I have on the Internet is the fact that almost every time I state that I'm in Oman, or just the Middle East, people instantaneously ask me if it's really violent and if guns are used and the rest of that bile the media vomits at people.

Thankfully, I find acceptance in a few places, such as World of Warcraft, certain parts of YouTube, here, and another forum I'm on.

People who hate Islam must have extremely closed minds (people who hate any Religion have closed minds IMO), along with the ones that think people are terrorists because they don't care about America.

Is there an exact reason to hate a Religion/ethnicity/accent/colour of skin? No.
If there are, then do tell.

Although I say this, I realize that hatred will never be banished. I just say this to justify myself and others who agree with me.

People will always hate for stupid reasons.

Also, Teran is correct again.

 

[TigerWoods]

You know people don't ever "grow up." All of the world's issues are comparable to a preschool recess dispute.

My "mom" says I'm right so that makes me better!
My "mom" says that that's bad so you're bad!
Why does he get the "candy" and I don't?
He cheated!

 

[Sucumbio]

You know people don't ever "grow up." All of the world's issues are comparable to a preschool recess dispute.

My "mom" says I'm right so that makes me better!
My "mom" says that that's bad so you're bad!
Why does he get the "candy" and I don't?
He cheated!

LOL so true.
Then again... there IS this...

i guess the majority of people in the world either failed kindergarten or more accurately forgot what they learned... maybe it was drummed out of them by the higher grades, and social interactions therein. Maybe it was always meant to be forgotten. Maybe there should be a grade 13, a visit back to the basics taught in kindergarten. I know one thing, it is definitely something that we won't ever move beyond until we have some serious globally affecting thing to unite us, like WWII almost did, but sadly that wasn't -quite- tragic enough! It's gonna take the literal end of the world to unite us, and by then it may very well be too late.

As for racial jokes, though... heh, I rarely make them, and only in the presence of others I trust to not be offended, and only about my OWN ethnicity, never others. I basically just accepted long ago that racially motivated jokes are not really that funny, and highly inappropriate, because they're based in a stereotype-driven logic that sets Mankind, BACK, not forward. Until we learn to be all nice and gooey like in Star Trek: TNG, we're doomed to make the same mistakes over and over, the only thing changing being the severity of the consequences.

 

[TigerWoods]

(side note succumbio: I'm too lazy to debate your post in debate hall I will later though lmao)

But yeah I make racist jokes if the person is making them about me, and we are good friends.

 

[Sucumbio]

haha it's cool, I chose to play the underdog (big surprise) so we'll see ^^

Where did you grow up, btw? I grew up in Boston, the so-called "melting pot of america" and easily one of the most racist places on earth. I mean, forced busing! sheesh. Yah, when i was in grade school, they shipped inner city youth from the ghetto (dorchester, roxbury) on buses to white suburban public schools in an attempt to, do something for them, but it totally backfired for most. I'll never forget this one dude, he literally stomped a kid near death in the 4th grade. It was very difficult growing up in such a "safe" and nearly all white community. And then you add in my family's own racism... even my grandparents who were off-the-boat chinese, found ways to fix their lips to call others dirty names and "oh, don't talk to blacks, they're all bad" kinda crap... really confusing when you're 5 and have no clue what they're even talking about but somehow you feel like you've done something wrong when you do run into one and talk to them like they're normal people. >< I'm just glad I won't be raising my kids that way. Ethnicity has become much more diverse over the last 30 years. I'd be hard pressed to figure out what all me and wife's child would technically be made-up of, if asked. I'm... lets see, 1/2 chinese, 1/4 scotch, 1/4 english, then she's... o.o; who knows, lol basque, norwegian, and whatever her mom's side is. I know this much, her mom's uncle was THE General George S. Patton.. who was scotch... it's creepy cause you look at pictures of him, and you can see it in her mom, the facial structures and whatnot. Our child is gonna be diverse all right, lol

 

[Eyada]

This is a bit of an aside, but this needs to be addressed:

People who hate Islam must have extremely closed minds (people who hate any Religion have closed minds IMO)

Is there an exact reason to hate a Religion/ethnicity/accent/colour of skin? No.
If there are, then do tell.

Religion is not at all the same as ethnicity, accent, or skin color.

Religion is an idea, a statement, a claim to truth; as such, it has a truth value (i.e., true or false). Ethnicity, accent, and skin color are simply attributes, and do not inherently have any truth value. Statements (i.e., claims to truth) concerning ethnicity, accent, and skin color can have truth values, but the attributes themselves do not.

As such, Religion is a wholly distinct type of thing from ethnicity, accent, or skin color. Grouping them together is illogical.

For a refutation of the bold, underlined part of the quote, see below.

Me and my father fought over this at Pizza Hut one day. My father is just a bigot, despite being an intelligent, educated man. I use bigot over racist because its not the skin color, its all of religion he is against, especially Islam.

Unless his opposition to religion is based on the irrational premise "My opinions are right because my opinions are right, therefore anything that doesn't conform to my opinions is wrong, evil, and worthy of contempt", he isn't a bigot. Opposition to, rejection of, or even outright hatred for religion does not necessarily make one a bigot.

Rational rejection of or opposition to an idea does not qualify as bigotry, unless you wish to *******ize the meaning of the word "bigotry" into a meaningless trivialism, which is an easily demonstrable result:

Statement: Opposition to Religion is a form of bigotry.
1. Religion is a claim to truth.
2. Thus, opposition to Religion is opposition to a claim to truth.
3. Therefore, opposition to a claim to truth is a form of bigotry.
4. Thus, all people who oppose any claims to truth are bigots.
5. Thus, anyone who does not accept all claims to truth is a bigot.
6. Thus, in order to not be a bigot, one must accept trivialism.
7. Trivialism results in contradictions.
--Thus, the statement is wrong.

The only valid refutation of that example is to advocate epistemological relativism, which is, to say the least, a daunting task.

/aside.

All that said, I agree with Teran that:

The problem isn't religion.

The problem is the stupidity, greed, and clan like nature of man.

All bigotry is the result of irrationality and stupidity. If people had access to proper education and, as a result, were logical, bigotry would become extinct. Racism, sexism, asinine beliefs like "All Middle-Easterners are terrorists", and numerous other social poisons would all dissipate.

It is especially disheartening that a professor would engage in discriminatory behavior, and a complaint should definitely be filed against him. Education is supposed to be the solution to bigotry, not a breeding ground for it.

 

[Sucumbio]

^^^^ The best post I've read on SWF ever.

 

[El Nino]

As such, Religion is a wholly distinct type of thing from ethnicity, accent, or skin color. Grouping them together is illogical.

The thing is, people form communities based on religion, the same way they form communities based on race, ethnicity, or social class. So, even if religion is different from those other things, it often becomes a part of a person's identity in the same way as ethnicity. Communities are distinct from the rest of the society that they are a part of. So it is often very hard to expression dislike of a religion merely as a thought exercise; even if you mean it as as a thought exercise, it rarely ever is taken as one by the people who identify with that religion; many will feel it as closely as if you had insulted their ethnicity. It is too closely tied in to their identity, to who they are as people.

I've come to realize that a lot of people need religion, and they don't all need the same religion, and there are some things that only religion can provide for them. So I just let them be, with the stipulation that religion should never be mixed with any kind of political power--ever.

 

[TigerWoods]

Yeah I agree with nino. Within each religious organization there are good people who only wish well, zealots, and elitists. A lot of people like to generalize though; they take a small group of people from a religion(or whatever really) and make them represent the whole organization.

Atheists are not left out of this too... as some of us aren't the nicest people on the planet.