Election Day '08: Obama Wins, Old guy doesn't

[derek.haines]

Obama Won. He's gonna end the war come January while Osama Bin Laden is still out there doing god knows what. Oh boy. That's what happens when a person who has no idea what they are doing in the middle-east becomes leader of the most powerful country in the world. He's gonna be assassinated by March. I have a bet on it with someone.

President-Elect Obama is not going to "end the war", because there is no "the war", there is "the wars". Obama will find a proper way to end the U.S. occupation of Iraq, then focus on the other war in Afghanistan--you know, the war to actually go after Osama Bin Laden.

And even if Obama doesn't know what they're doing in the Middle East (could he possibly know what's going on less than the current administration?), he's going to surround himself with people that do. Obama's administration will be made up of the finest minds in the country, not merely his political allies.

 

[NES n00b]

Obama's administration will be made up of the finest minds in the country, not merely his political allies.

As much as I would love to believe so, the only President I know who did that without any noticable bias and did with alot of thought in mind was George Washington. I don't remember any other presidents doing that at such extents as he did especially after Andrew Jackson's administration. If he does all the power to him, but what makes you think he is actually going to do that?

 

[Lixivium]

As much as I would love to believe so, the only President I know who did that without any noticable bias and did with alot of thought in mind was George Washington. I don't remember any other presidents doing that at such extents as he did especially after Andrew Jackson's administration. If he does all the power to him, but what makes you think he is actually going to do that?

Of course there's going to be bias, but whatever Obama does is going to be BALM after Bush's 8 years of politicizing all offices (Michael Brown, CPA, Justice Department, ad nauseum)

 

[BrawlLover]

loool everyone's wearing obama shirts on campus

 

[NES n00b]

Of course there's going to be bias, but whatever Obama does is going to be BALM after Bush's 8 years of politicizing all offices (Michael Brown, CPA, Justice Department, ad nauseum)

That might be the case in both having better advisors and having less bias....but that doesn't answer the question "Why do you think that he will have great minds[IE great advisors] surrounding him with no bias?" Maybe Bush did politcize every office...in fact, he did. Alot of presidents have been doing that since Andrew Jackson and it has just been getting worse and worse, but at least they meet bare requirements more (from what I can tell). I don't see this trend stopping since history has shown that president's never give up power when they have a chance to seize it besides a very select few.

Again if he does, great. But I need more evidence than rhetoric and I am not going to accept "well he will be better than the other guy" as an arguement. In fact, I don't see evidence as to why he would have less bias either. I am just interested in where that idea comes from and if it has any basis beyond rhetoric.

 

[derek.haines]

As much as I would love to believe so, the only President I know who did that without any noticable bias and did with alot of thought in mind was George Washington. I don't remember any other presidents doing that at such extents as he did especially after Andrew Jackson's administration. If he does all the power to him, but what makes you think he is actually going to do that?

There are already going to be advisory positions for Warren Buffett--master Capitalist and the oft-Richest Man on Earth--and Colin Powell--A Republican. Both supporters, of course, but then I wouldn't expect him to fill his administration with people who hate him, because it would simply be a drain on the flow of thought. He's bringing in good minds rather than just those who fit with his philosophy, like Bush did with his Neo-Con buddies.

 

[NES n00b]

There are already going to be advisory positions for Warren Buffet--master Capitalist and the oft-Richest Man on Earth--and Colin Powell--A Republican. Both supporters, of course, but then I wouldn't expect him to fill his administration with people who hate him, because it would simply be a drain on the flow of thought. He's bringing in good minds rather than just those who fit with his philosophy, like Bush did with his Neo-Con buddies.

Fair enough I guess. They are at least brilliant even if they do support the specific parts of his ideology in the fields they are in which I cannot say the same for Bush.

 

[BrawlLover]

it's true, they do support some sparts of his ideology, and bush i mean...no

 

[Lixivium]

Again if he does, great. But I need more evidence than rhetoric and I am not going to accept "well he will be better than the other guy" as an arguement. In fact, I don't see evidence as to why he would have less bias either. I am just interested in where that idea comes from and if it has any basis beyond rhetoric.

Have you actually looked into who McCain and Obama's advisors are? Look up the likes of Norman Podhoretz and get a glimpse of what McCain might have done on foreign policy (hint: it rhymes with "bomb Iran"). I don't know about you but I'd rather not have a bunch of neocons perpetuating Bush's ideologies.

 

[NES n00b]

Have you actually looked into who McCain and Obama's advisors are? Look up the likes of Norman Podhoretz and get a glimpse of what McCain might have done on foreign policy (hint: it rhymes with "bomb Iran"). I don't know about you but I'd rather not have a bunch of neocons perpetuating Bush's ideologies.

I already said fair enough when derek brang up the advisors for Obama who I think are pretty good. Again though, comparing to someone else as being worst does not actually answer the question again. But yes, Mccain's advisors were biased. He had an adivsor who was a high executive at Hewlett and Packard (can't remember if she was CEO) and she basically made the company way worse off showing how much she knew of business and economics, but he still choose her as one of his surogates. Not only that she got the "executive package" from "retirement" that Mccain said he was against.

 

[Skler]

I like how peopel can say whatever the hell they want, then the second someone says that the Vietnam war didn't help America you all vomit on him.

I didn't get upset about him saying the Vietnam war didn't help America. I got upset about him saying Mccain (who was a soldier at the time, you can say anything you want about him for other things) didn't help America.

I don't think Goldshadow was right in the jist of his comment, but calm the **** down. We have rapists and murderers in our military, and we've done bad things in Iraq. Just like every military that has ever existed and gone to war. Every soldier is not a shining beacon of morality, they're just regular people. Some are self sacrificing, others just want to kill people or want the money or want to escape. There is no reason for the military to be such a taboo to talk about.

All the rapists and murderers are immediately discharged from the military the moment they are found guilty. As for the military itself, I know it's just a bunch of regular people. They're regular people who are risking their lives for whatever personal reasons they may have (could be money, wanting to kill or escaping) but they're still putting their lives on the line for our country. That's more than any of us have done. Even if their reason for going into the military is selfish (not that it pays well or anything like that) what they do in the military is a good thing.

Sure, there have been some incidents where soldiers misbehaved, the military isn't perfect and war is a very ****ed up situation. In both Iraq and Vietnam we had insane rules of engagement that put our soldiers at great risk. They're stressed out and having to risk their lives every day, some people are bound to crack under that sort of pressure.

You shouldn't bad mouth the military over the mistakes (as horrible as they were) a few people made. You really shouldn't say someone with a good military record like John Mccain didn't serve America. Saying "He didn't serve us" is insulting everyone who served in Vietnam. Goldshadow made it seem like all those Americans died for no reason at all.

It just really pushes my buttons when people say that sort of **** about someone who did his duty. It wasn't his fault if the military was misguided, it was the politicians. He did serve us and he suffered greatly for it, don't disrespect somebody like that. Say all you want about the guards who tortured their prisoners, say all you want about the soldiers who took part in the Mai Lai massacre, but don't say a word about the men who did their duty.

tl;dr version: Don't talk **** about a soldier who did his duty.

Edit: Lol @ comparing Obama to Bush, no matter who got elected they would be better than Bush.

 

[BrawlLover]

war happened for special reasons

 

[Mediocre]

Eh, I re-read it and realized that I guess i missed his point.
That was more directed towards to the other guy =/

Then why did you quote Eor?

Are you incapable of reading what people say before replying to them?

 

[M.K]

Then why did you quote Eor?

Are you incapable of reading what people say before replying to them?

LOL I guess so!
Eor: 1
Me: -232

 

[cman]

This thread officially wins the prize for the most stupidity in a single thread. It's pitiful.

 

[BrawlLover]

says the stupid user, who is also pitiful

 

[urdailywater]

Obama being president doesn't worry me.

Most of Congress being Democrat is what worries me.


One thing that made me mad is that most likely a majority of African Americans voted Obama.
I heard around 80-90% or more. Now, I wonder if that would be a LOT different if he had the views of McCain, or didn't want to give out welfare checks to the ones who refuse to work or just can't. (lol land of oppurtunity)

 

[BrawlLover]

Exactly, it should never be majorly one side.

 

[Deleted member]

Voted McCain/Palin (although Palin is an idiot) but I just couldn't take that this great nation will fall apart because of extreme liberals.

 

[derek.haines]

One thing that made me mad is that most likely a majority of African Americans voted Obama.
I heard around 80-90% or more. Now, I wonder if that would be a LOT different if he had the views of McCain, or didn't want to give out welfare checks to the ones who refuse to work or just can't. (lol land of oppurtunity)

You know... I doubt there'd be such a need for welfare if the minimum wage was a living wage, something Obama supports. There'd still be people on it, of course, but if you could actually support yourself doing an easily obtained job, maybe it'd be a fair few less.

What I believe should be done for welfare is the institution of mandatory community service to continue recieving welfare checks. 10 hours per week at a soup kitchen or cleaning up parks is a small price to pay to continue feeding one's family and paying one's rent, plus it would eliminate the idea of it being "free money" while helping the local area.

 

[urdailywater]

You know... I doubt there'd be such a need for welfare if the minimum wage was a living wage, something Obama supports. There'd still be people on it, of course, but if you could actually support yourself doing an easily obtained job, maybe it'd be a fair few less.

What I believe should be done for welfare is the institution of mandatory community service to continue recieving welfare checks. 10 hours per week at a soup kitchen or cleaning up parks is a small price to pay to continue feeding one's family and paying one's rent, plus it would eliminate the idea of it being "free money" while helping the local area.

I might have come off on the wrong foot at first.

I hate the idea of "Free Money" myself, which is the main thing I'm against. I'd much rather give a homeless fellow a Whopper meal from Burger King rather than trust him with $6 which God knows what he would spend it on.

 

[BrawlLover]

well there's no such thing as perfect candidate

 

[GoldShadow]

Okay, here's the important part of my original post for reference:

He did not serve in a war for us (how was that war at all related to America or American freedom?)

Second, serving in the military is an honorable thing to do, without a doubt. But it does not qualify one to be president.

Hate to sound like some patriotic idiot cause really I am not always proud of what wars were chosen, but don't say he didn't serve America by being in the Army. Even if the war didn't serve America, he did. He has done some pretty bad things from being an adulterer, to being very involved in the keating scandal, and even just being a regular politician by giving misleading info on candidates and choosing policies that he hadn't supported before to get through primaries. He, however, still served America at that moment so don't brush it off just cause you don't support that we didn't go to that war.

What an *******. There are few things that really piss me off, and saying that anyone who was in America's armed forces wasn't serving America is one of those things. Way to support the troops.

Who the **** are you to take any credit away from someone who went to a foreign country and fought for America's interests? The man got tortured and you say he wasn't serving America when that happened. At the very least he stopped somebody else from having to go to war.

You say it's honorable, but you proceed to **** all over what soldiers stand for. They represent our country and fight for us, they are always serving America.

I don't get your point.
Is McCain one of these ****** and murdering people in the military?
No. He was not. I don't understand why you can't acknowledge that he served this country.

How dare you.
That man risked his ****ing life for something that he was SENT to do. It doesn't matter if it was for the benefit or los of America, he did it honorably.

I didn't get upset about him saying the Vietnam war didn't help America. I got upset about him saying Mccain (who was a soldier at the time, you can say anything you want about him for other things) didn't help America.

...

You shouldn't bad mouth the military over the mistakes (as horrible as they were) a few people made. You really shouldn't say someone with a good military record like John Mccain didn't serve America. Saying "He didn't serve us" is insulting everyone who served in Vietnam. Goldshadow made it seem like all those Americans died for no reason at all.

It just really pushes my buttons when people say that sort of **** about someone who did his duty. It wasn't his fault if the military was misguided, it was the politicians. He did serve us and he suffered greatly for it, don't disrespect somebody like that. Say all you want about the guards who tortured their prisoners, say all you want about the soldiers who took part in the Mai Lai massacre, but don't say a word about the men who did their duty.

tl;dr version: Don't talk **** about a soldier who did his duty.

Whoa, looks like I rattled a lot of cages! Some of you put words in my mouth but most of you just misinterpreted what I said. What I meant by my original comment was that we the American citizens and our rights, freedoms and safety as well as American soil, the land that physically makes up our country, were not at all affected by the Vietnam War (that's what I meant by "us"). I did not mean that "he never served America"; almost by definition, serving in the military means serving America. What I meant to say was that the war and the soldiers in it were not defending American freedom and Americans (since those were not related to the war), per se, though they did fight for and serve America by fighting for its [government's] interests.

I was definitely not saying that his service or being a POW does not matter at all; I most certainly have a lot of respect for anybody who's been through what he has. What I was saying is that these experiences do not qualify someone to be president.

I don't want anyone to think I have anything against soldiers, I definitely don't. I have a number of friends who are in the army, and I have a family member in the USAR who's been to Iraq twice. I may not support certain wars, but I most definitely respect and support the soldiers who serve and fight in them. Sorry for any misunderstandings.

 

[Bowser King]

I might have come off on the wrong foot at first.

I hate the idea of "Free Money" myself, which is the main thing I'm against. I'd much rather give a homeless fellow a Whopper meal from Burger King rather than trust him with $6 which God knows what he would spend it on.

You better not give him one of my burgers!!! D: /lame joke

Anyway, I agree with you. Free money sounds like an idea that needs working on. Most homless people aren't homless for no reason =/


-Bowser King

 

[laki]

Obama being president doesn't worry me.

Most of Congress being Democrat is what worries me.


One thing that made me mad is that most likely a majority of African Americans voted Obama.
I heard around 80-90% or more. Now, I wonder if that would be a LOT different if he had the views of McCain, or didn't want to give out welfare checks to the ones who refuse to work or just can't. (lol land of oppurtunity)

N1ggas vote democratic. It's what we do. Somewhere in this thread it was posted that the last 5 or 6 democrats running for office received I believe 82ish percent of the black vote. Anyways, Obama won the majority of all age groups under 65 and in both sexes.

 

[lsutigers35]

McCain, for many reasons.

 

[Engel]

You know... I doubt there'd be such a need for welfare if the minimum wage was a living wage, something Obama supports.

You know I saw on Obama's site that he supports raising the minimum wage to $9.50 or something like that..... very interesting considering he's voted against raising the minimum wage while in the senate several times(McCain had been voting in favor of raising it the past few years)

 

[lsutigers35]

N1ggas vote democratic. It's what we do. Somewhere in this thread it was posted that the last 5 or 6 democrats running for office received I believe 82ish percent of the black vote. Anyways, Obama won the majority of all age groups under 65 and in both sexes.

This is one thing I will never understand. Are you aware that it was Abraham Lincoln- a Republican- that saved your race from slavery?

 

[cman]

This is one thing I will never understand. Are you aware that it was Abraham Lincoln- a Republican- that saved your race from slavery?

The parties switched sides in 1964 because of the civil rights bill

 

[BrawlLover]

search mccain youtube problem 2

 

[laki]

The parties switched sides in 1964 because of the civil rights bill

This. Know your history

 

[§leepy God]

Today, I thought getting a news paper was impossable. Just about every news paper holder was empty today. This election was much bigger than I thought, I'm guessing in all the demorcatic states it's much bigger. Well, Obama won the election, now the hard part begins, I know he can handle it.

 

[NES n00b]

The parties switched sides in 1964 because of the civil rights bill

Even before that, FDR and Truman were giving more rights to African Americans and their policies in general helped them too so they actually switched sides around 1932.

 

[BrawlLover]

Today, I thought getting a news paper was impossable. Just about every news paper holder was empty today. This election was much bigger than I thought, I'm guessing in all the demorcatic states it's much bigger. Well, Obama won the election, now the hard part begins, I know he can handle it.

omg same here, lul

 

[blayde_axel]

This is one thing I will never understand. Are you aware that it was Abraham Lincoln- a Republican- that saved your race from slavery?

Not many people are, but yeah, blacks were considered at a mass Republican until the civil acts. Then they switched parties.

BTW, LSU Tigers? lol. I go to LSU, too. Just don't support em.

 

[DoH]

This is one thing I will never understand. Are you aware that it was Abraham Lincoln- a Republican- that saved your race from slavery?

Those Republicans were liberals. Ever since LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act of 1965, Democrats became the party of a majority of African Americans and also the home of liberal reformers. Republicans in recent years have done their part to suppress the votes of African Americans, and after the Democrats alienated them, became the party of a majority of racists.

That's why African Americans vote with the democratic wing; it has been liberals who have historically advanced their causes and rights.

 

[MookieRah]

People are upset that black people voted for the black candidate that also happened to be the democratic candidate? QQ much?

Black people voting for a black candidate makes more sense to me than a lot of white dudes not voting for him because he is black. At least african americans are voting to further themselves by having a president that isn't a super whitey.

There are all sorts of reasons to vote. I don't get upset when I see people with car tags that said "Vote McCain keep your guns!"

Also, something I wanted to point out. My friend/psuedo girlfriend Jodi's dad makes ****tons of money. He is part of a large company, Max Packaging, and makes well over $250 k per year. He wanted to avoid being taxed, so he is actually taking advantage of Obama's policies by investing back into his company rather than hoarding it, which in turn would create more jobs and stimulate the economy cause he is spending his large amount of cash. I really really wish I remembered all the specifics, but this was a conversation I had over a month ago. In other words, this paragraph was here to counter an earlier post claiming that taxing the rich is a bad thing. Trickle down economics is fail. It just doesn't work.

 

[Omis]

People are upset that black people voted for the black candidate that also happened to be the democratic candidate? QQ much?

Black people voting for a black candidate makes more sense to me than a lot of white dudes not voting for him because he is black. At least african americans are voting to further themselves by having a president that isn't a super whitey.

There are all sorts of reasons to vote. I don't get upset when I see people with car tags that said "Vote McCain keep your guns!"

Also, something I wanted to point out. My friend/psuedo girlfriend Jodi's dad makes ****tons of money. He is part of a large company, Max Packaging, and makes well over $250 k per year. He wanted to avoid being taxed, so he is actually taking advantage of Obama's policies by investing back into his company rather than hoarding it, which in turn would create more jobs and stimulate the economy cause he is spending his large amount of cash. I really really wish I remembered all the specifics, but this was a conversation I had over a month ago. In other words, this paragraph was here to counter an earlier post claiming that taxing the rich is a bad thing. Trickle down economics is fail. It just doesn't work.

So basically he is investing his money into the company to pay less taxes?

 

[Sporkman]

People are upset that black people voted for the black candidate that also happened to be the democratic candidate? QQ much?

Black people voting for a black candidate makes more sense to me than a lot of white dudes not voting for him because he is black. At least african americans are voting to further themselves by having a president that isn't a super whitey.

There are all sorts of reasons to vote. I don't get upset when I see people with car tags that said "Vote McCain keep your guns!"

Also, something I wanted to point out. My friend/psuedo girlfriend Jodi's dad makes ****tons of money. He is part of a large company, Max Packaging, and makes well over $250 k per year. He wanted to avoid being taxed, so he is actually taking advantage of Obama's policies by investing back into his company rather than hoarding it, which in turn would create more jobs and stimulate the economy cause he is spending his large amount of cash. I really really wish I remembered all the specifics, but this was a conversation I had over a month ago. In other words, this paragraph was here to counter an earlier post claiming that taxing the rich is a bad thing. Trickle down economics is fail. It just doesn't work.

**** buddy, then?

 

[Pikaville]

Heh heh! Pseudo girlfriend totally=f**k buddy.

I knew Obama would win hands down.Who wants an old man whos gonna die and leave that psycho b***h in charge.^^^^^^(smash noob is gonna hate me)

My friend Zac has a girlfriend who lives in America and she rang him crying when she heard the results.Her family voted Mc Cain.They pretty much brainwashed her,im not even joking.Its pretty sad.

Im not even American so I dont really care,but from an outside perspective I think your country needed a change.Bush f****d up your rep worldwide,aswell as your economy.