Eldiran's PSAs 'n' Stuff: Newest - Zero 1.4

[yami_sora]

Haha yeah fine I guess it does.

 

[Eldiran]

Are you planning on utilizing the sound effect replacement for any of Zero? Maybe some new voices or saber swings?

I'd love to when this becomes glitch-free and easy to do.

in Vbrawl its not that useful due to the tripping chance and smaller window, but in both melee and B+ it is an integral part of spacing.

I may consider allowing it (interrupting SideB with another SideB) in B+, assuming Zero ends up needing that kind of ability.

--
Anyway! I decided to take Zero through Subspace Emissary on Intense. I found two bugs that way so far! First, when wall sliding into water, Zero splashes a lot and sinks instead of rising. This bug is inconsequential.

The 2nd bug is that Zero cannot pull out or put away his shield when he's holding an item. I fear this has been hardcoded into Link -- I don't see any way to change it. If anyone knows how to change this, please inform me.

(Also Zero didn't regain his recovery abilities on ladders/in water, but I should have fixed that just now.)

Regardless... SSE is so awesome with Zero. I'm reminded why Brawl is my favorite game ever.

 

[Zeruel21]

SSE is so awesome with Zero. I'm reminded why Brawl is my favorite game ever.

He's a little broken for it, but going MMZ on the enemies is awesome. You've really captured his general feel in that mode. The standard no-starting-animation wierdness is a bit bothersome at times (I don't like having to put away my Shield Boomerang before I can dash), but maybe that can be corrected with time.

Hope 1.2 comes soon.

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

:V, you have great taste in fighting games. The Power Stone series is the only fighter to rival in quality the Smash Bros. Series.

Also, Eldiran, I come bearing presents.
Mega Man X Medley (.mp3)
Mega Man X Medley (.brstm)
Zero Theme Medley (.mp3)
Zero Theme Medley (.brstm)

 

[Eldiran]

He's a little broken for it, but going MMZ on the enemies is awesome. You've really captured his general feel in that mode. The standard no-starting-animation wierdness is a bit bothersome at times (I don't like having to put away my Shield Boomerang before I can dash), but maybe that can be corrected with time.

Hope 1.2 comes soon.

Thanks! I agree very much about the starting problems -- I actually just thought of a solution and implemented it in the next version. (I should get around to releasing that soon...)

Also, Eldiran, I come bearing presents.
Mega Man X Medley (.mp3)
Mega Man X Medley (.brstm)
Zero Theme Medley (.mp3)
Zero Theme Medley (.brstm)

Sweet deal! I'm totally using those. Assuming I don't forget, I'll put them on the first post when I put up the next Zero.

 

[Kei_Takaro]

@Eldrian, been playing Zero for the whole day, something popped up in my head!
Is there a way to put GFX on Zero when Smashed? You could re-create the Red Orbs that fly in an outward distance? I hope you can, and let be it included in the next update

 

[Zeruel21]

@Eldrian, been playing Zero for the whole day, something popped up in my head!
Is there a way to put GFX on Zero when Smashed? You could re-create the Red Orbs that fly in an outward distance? I hope you can, and let be it included in the next update

999% damage and maximum knockback from spikes would also be nice, but it's unbalancing

Also, what exactly did you find caused those startup oddities? I don't know anything about PSA, but it seemed like all of his attack states were active (fully charged buster, shield out, ect.)

 

[Eldiran]

@Eldrian, been playing Zero for the whole day, something popped up in my head!
Is there a way to put GFX on Zero when Smashed? You could re-create the Red Orbs that fly in an outward distance? I hope you can, and let be it included in the next update

You mean when KOed? I'd love to do that, but unfortunately making things happen when someone gets KOed is still out of my reach. Otherwise, Zero's Final Smash would actually end when he dies :/

999% damage and maximum knockback from spikes would also be nice, but it's unbalancing

Also, what exactly did you find caused those startup oddities? I don't know anything about PSA, but it seemed like all of his attack states were active (fully charged buster, shield out, ect.)

Basically, those things are active whenever certain variables are set to "true". The game's default value was apparently "true", so they started like that. I made a little check that set them to false once. It was something simple that I honestly don't know why I didn't think of immediately.

 

[Adapt]

Zero is pretty beastly in the SSE. Especially once you put some slash and weapon stickers on him.

I also noticed that every time I went though a door I would get my gun fully charged and be holding the shield. Is it worth it to modify your code such that 'true' (the default state) is uncharged/dash mode?

 

[Eldiran]

Zero is pretty beastly in the SSE. Especially once you put some slash and weapon stickers on him.

I also noticed that every time I went though a door I would get my gun fully charged and be holding the shield. Is it worth it to modify your code such that 'true' (the default state) is uncharged/dash mode?

Oh, no worries. I've already fixed the issue. Like I said, it was such a simple solution I should have thought of it long ago.

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

Hey, Eld, I've been wondering, is it possible to minorly PSA'd Kirby to have an associated "Zero Kirby" overwrite "Link Kirby"? or does editing kirby's neutral B not work right yet?

 

[Megaman X]

Have you considered integrating the Final Smash moveset into his regular one? It seems like a real shame to let most of his really cool moves from X4 go to waste for the majority of the time, and never even see them unless the smash ball is turned on.

 

[Zeruel21]

Have you considered integrating the Final Smash moveset into his regular one? It seems like a real shame to let most of his really cool moves from X4 go to waste for the majority of the time, and never even see them unless the smash ball is turned on.

I'd agree if their effectiveness was toned down. It would be a lot cooler to have moves like Ryuenjin or Raijingeki instead of generic slashes, and may add a little more depth to his attacks. Of course, just making them effects would be fine too. Eldiran said he added some buffs already, but this may be something else to consisder.

 

[Eldiran]

Hey, Eld, I've been wondering, is it possible to minorly PSA'd Kirby to have an associated "Zero Kirby" overwrite "Link Kirby"? or does editing kirby's neutral B not work right yet?

I don't belieeeve it is possible, but I haven't really looked into it much.

Have you considered integrating the Final Smash moveset into his regular one? It seems like a real shame to let most of his really cool moves from X4 go to waste for the majority of the time, and never even see them unless the smash ball is turned on.

I agree entirely; I actually am changing it so that Zero unleashes his Raijingeki with a fully charged forward smash, and his Ryuenjin with a fully charged up smash. (I made sure the charge-up doesn't enhance the techniques.) It's a surprisingly potent ability, and it's quite cool.

 

[tsunami70875]

I'd agree if their effectiveness was toned down. It would be a lot cooler to have moves like Ryuenjin or Raijingeki instead of generic slashes, and may add a little more depth to his attacks. Of course, just making them effects would be fine too. Eldiran said he added some buffs already, but this may be something else to consisder.

This. Ryuenjin could easily be substitued for Zero's current up B, perhaps using Marth's animation.

EDIT: nvm, you responded to this. but you should still consider Ryuenjin for up B instead

Also, Eldiran, how exactly did you implement Zero's side taunt? You should consider such usage for one of this attacks.

 

[Megaman X]

I agree entirely; I actually am changing it so that Zero unleashes his Raijingeki with a fully charged forward smash, and his Ryuenjin with a fully charged up smash. (I made sure the charge-up doesn't enhance the techniques.) It's a surprisingly potent ability, and it's quite cool.

Saweeeeeeet!! Gotta try this madness

 

[Rykoshet]

Eld, I'm not saying you should PM me a buffed pac or anything but should it happen I would not be against it.

 

[Cia]

I REALLY love wisp. it's fun (and surprisingly balanced)

very nice.

 

[Ryo242]

Eld, I'm not saying you should PM me a buffed pac or anything but should it happen I would not be against it.

-laughs- Of course you would Ryko. I'd be willing to help you test it too.

New attacks? He does need a slightly better Up+B... and by slightly, I mean I want it to do some damage and have knockback. That's just me though.

 

[toddtj]

Ryuenjin could easily be substitued for Zero's current up B, perhaps using Marth's animation.

EDIT: nvm, you responded to this. but you should still consider Ryuenjin for up B instead

He does need a slightly better Up+B... and by slightly, I mean I want it to do some damage and have knockback. That's just me though.

I disagree.
Before playing him I would have agreed with you 110%, but now I would regret losing the unique feel of the character. I really like how unique his side-B and up-B make Zero.
What could be interesting, however, would be having Ryuenjin be Zero's up-B when his shield is drawn, and up-dash be his up-B when it is not. Assuming that Ryuenjin would put Zero in an exhausted state, it would need to fairly powerful to be worth giving up the mobility. If, under these circumstances, Ryuenjin became a strong kill move, game play as Zero would become much more interesting.
As it stands, I see no reason to ever use the shield- I would love to see this change that.
Besides, Zero seems to have a serious lack of killing power:

-His forward and up smashes kill early enough, but they are too slow unless you opponent makes a mistake.
-His forward tilt trips to make up for this, but any human opponent can roll out of the way before the smash makes contact.
-His up throw kills at 171%- his other throws are a lost cause.
-He has no meteor(right?).
-He can't even really chase opponents off the side because of how easy it is to edgehog him.


My suggestion:
Ryuenjin as up-B in shield state.
This would give Zero a quick and powerful kill move that would be balanced by the increased mobility sacrificed to use it. It could also be used to anti-edgehog.
Also, what if using his up-dash created a small jet-boot flame beneath him that was a weak spike.


Don't ask me why Zero logically needs a shield to perform Ryuenjin...I didn't think this through that far

 

[toddtj]

Also, I have to tell you, you did an amazing job making this. The attention to detail is most impressive.
This character feels completely unique, and is very interesting. I really enjoy playing as him.

Thank you.

 

[Megaman X]

stuff

While I disagree with the shield being useless (seriously that thing is extremely obnoxious in the right hands) I do agree that it would at least be worth a public test to try flame uppercut as an upB with the shield out or put away. I think it might be better as an upB when the shield is put away instead, that way while recovering with the shield out, you have the option of using upB/forwardB, at some point either put the shield away or throw it for cover, then upB instead of just upB/forwardB, take shield out, upB. Though it would require testing to know for sure which way is better, I recommend flame uppercut as viable when the shield is put away. Makes more sense that way too, as Zero uses both hands for the move IIRC.

I could see this working out REALLY cool.

 

[Kitamerby]

anti-edgehogging

You can footstool people if you're not in fallspecial btw, and maybe uair to zair to tether the ledge. Just throwing that out there.

Also, imo, Up B is too slow to rise. Compare his infinite up B's to his infinite jumps in his final smash to see a difference. Zero doesn't dash, he waits a tiny bit, then jumps. It's a very very very tiny thing, I guess.

Also, the charge smash idea doesn't exactly sound useful or practical, but it does sound like an absolutely awesome idea.

 

[toddtj]

While I disagree with the shield being useless (seriously that thing is extremely obnoxious in the right hands) I do agree that it would at least be worth a public test to try flame uppercut as an upB with the shield out or put away. I think it might be better as an upB when the shield is put away instead, that way while recovering with the shield out, you have the option of using upB/forwardB, at some point either put the shield away or throw it for cover, then upB instead of just upB/forwardB, take shield out, upB. Though it would require testing to know for sure which way is better, I recommend flame uppercut as viable when the shield is put away. Makes more sense that way too, as Zero uses both hands for the move IIRC.

I could see this working out REALLY cool.

I hold my opinion.
Having zero use Ryuenjin when the shield is put away may make logical sense(because he uses both hands in the source content), but it will unbalance the contrast I intended. With Ryuenjin only accessible when the shield is out, the player will have to choose between "mobility mode" and "power mode"(although, without further changes it's not really "power" mode).

You can footstool people if you're not in fallspecial btw, and maybe uair to zair to tether the ledge. Just throwing that out there.

I didn't know you could hop on people's heads while they are on the ledge. I'll check it.
Still, I assume it would be much easier to time your attack after their invincible frames using a flaming uppercut, rather than a head hop. The box for the hop is rather small.

I'll check out uair to zair. I'm not used to using characters with tether recoveries, so I never even tried it.

Also, imo, Up B is too slow to rise. Compare his infinite up B's to his infinite jumps in his final smash to see a difference. Zero doesn't dash, he waits a tiny bit, then jumps. It's a very very very tiny thing, I guess.

I noticed this too. I like the fluid feel of the move, as opposed to it being a momentum stopping ridged movement like Lucario's up-B, but I agree that a speed increase might be nice- it does seem rather floaty to be a dash, right now.

Also, the charge smash idea doesn't exactly sound useful or practical, but it does sound like an absolutely awesome idea.

I agree, more or less. I think that, considering their range, they could be useful in some instances. For casual play, they would certainly catch people off guard, with not only their range, but also with just their general existence.
I think it is a good idea.

If you take to using Ryuenjin on up-B, you could replace the fully charged smash with the electric blade, instead.

Also, when Zero is in his "awakened state", have you considered having his d-air move rapidly, like Toon Link's d-air?

 

[Xeial]

I agree entirely; I actually am changing it so that Zero unleashes his Raijingeki with a fully charged forward smash, and his Ryuenjin with a fully charged up smash. (I made sure the charge-up doesn't enhance the techniques.) It's a surprisingly potent ability, and it's quite cool.

This.

Seriously, This is exactly what I had in mind.

 

[stRIP]

Heyho

i need some tips =o

im going to have an MM with a crewmate this saturday

we both will play PSA Chars we never played.

Its Zero for me and Wisp for him

which attack should i use as zero as much as possible?and whats his best finisher

otherwise, whats dangerous on wisp?

 

[Eldiran]

Lots of comments! I'm going to respond to them all by releasing the next version of Zero! Here is Version 1.2, the most potent yet. Download links!

Version 1.2
Normal / Balanced Brawl
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?0mmkrydzmxy
Brawl+
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ncy2nnmvnje

I am in particular need of feedback and balancing with this one, because I am very worried about making him overpowered. Here is his changelist for this version:

Version 1.2 Changes:
--------------------
Using Up+B in the air after an up-dash is expended now uses the tether.
Fixed a minor glitch with running
Fixed Zero's Win3 animation
Zero can now draw/sheathe his shield while holding items
Fixed missing sword graphic on slow getup attack while holding an item
Fixed a minor "Dash" button glitch
Fixed not being able to use the "Dash" button after double jump
Changed the "Dash" button to Side Taunt; Zero now has all 3 taunts when they are pressed via Dpad.

----
- Aerials have less landing lag
(Fair lag 20 -> 10, Uair lag 25 -> 15, Nair lag 20 -> 12; these values are lower in B+)
- Side+B now restores when hit
- Bair now kicks once for 9-11%
- Up air and Forward air now kill sooner
(Uair +6 KBG, Fair +9 KBG, -6 BKB)
- Now you can DI while tether attacking (Zair)
- Nair does 6-8% instead of 10%, but deals similar knockback as before
- Up tilt's punch has increased forward range, but is a very tiny bit slower.
(.5 frames slower)
- Shield draw is now x2 as fast; Shield put away is 3x fast instead of the original 2x
- Fully charged forward and up smashes become Raijingeki and Ryuenjin (unless you hold down on the joystick)
- SideB/UpB now restores when on a ladder/in water
- Boomerang shield now protects Zero's right arm and shoulder
(Zero's right arm and shoulder bones are intangible with the shield out)

--GLITCHES DISCOVERED:
- Zero splashes/slowly sinks if wallsliding in water (inconsequential)
- Wallsliding eliminates a held Smash Ball
- UpB/SideB do not recover with springs/cannons

I plan to further modify the info and fix the formatting on the first page, and I'd like to respond to some comments, but for now I have to get some dinner. In the meantime, enjoy!

 

[Rykoshet]

Helllll yes

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

Sweet! Version 1.2. Can't wait to play with it. My tracks make it into the OP yet?

 

[Rykoshet]

the tether coming out when I up B after it's expended is causing a lot of SDs caused by masing up B to make sure the initial up b comes out in the first place and then the tether missing and me not grabbing the ledge because the tether is out. You dont have to remove it but make the buffer window for such a thing much later so double pressing up B doesnt cause a death. I'd prefer tether be manual and not mapped to any recovery method as a simple double press is a lost stock.

Edit: Yeah, that's more annoying than I first thought it would be.

 

[shanus]

Eldiran, how did you make it so you can DI during zair?

 

[phantomphungus]

Wow, great, by far me and my friends favorite PSA character.

...ack, the boost button was awkward enough to press when it was the up taunt... make it something that would be second nature to press instead of one where you have to make a conscious, tedious effort to press, like one of the L or R buttons. I always use R, personally. Maybe make two versions, one with L one with R. Just putting that out there.


wait... why don't I just put up taunt to the L button? I'm a genius!

 

[Eldiran]

@stRIP: I would personally not recommend a money match on such unreliable factors... but I suppose that's your prerogative. Anyway, I think the match will be very biased in Zero's favor if you use the latest version of Zero (which is very buffed). So... don't? I dunno. I haven't tested Zero vs. Wisp much. Everything I could tell you about Wisp or Zero is contained in the first three posts.

@Lordshadow Ragnarok: Just added them!

the tether coming out when I up B after it's expended is causing a lot of SDs caused by masing up B to make sure the initial up b comes out in the first place and then the tether missing and me not grabbing the ledge because the tether is out. You dont have to remove it but make the buffer window for such a thing much later so double pressing up B doesnt cause a death. I'd prefer tether be manual and not mapped to any recovery method as a simple double press is a lost stock.

Edit: Yeah, that's more annoying than I first thought it would be.

Really? In all my play as Zero, that's never happened to me. Maybe... don't mash so much? But to be serious... I'll see what I can do, particularly if it proves to be a common problem. I definitely think being able to reverse a tether is worth it though.

Eldiran, how did you make it so you can DI during zair?

You can actually DI normally; just, in my original Zero, I had disabled it with 0E060100: 0-2, and I changed my mind and removed that command.

Wow, great, by far me and my friends favorite PSA character.

...ack, the boost button was awkward enough to press when it was the up taunt... make it something that would be second nature to press instead of one where you have to make a conscious, tedious effort to press, like one of the L or R buttons. I always use R, personally. Maybe make two versions, one with L one with R. Just putting that out there.

wait... why don't I just put up taunt to the L button? I'm a genius!

Don't forget -- the dash button is now Side Taunt! And you can't use it without mapping something other than the D-pad to be Side Taunt.

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

By the way, an Airdash Nair/Fair is a **** good approach as Zero.

 

[Rykoshet]

I double tap up B because if there's anything I want to be sure comes out when I press it, it's a recovery.

 

[Unknownlight]

I double-tap my Up-B with Zero as well, not because I'm trying to make sure it works, but because there's always a small delay between pressing Up-B and Zero actually doing the move. I know that delay is there on purpose, but it always makes me think for a moment that the input didn't register. =P

However, I haven't tried out v1.2 yet, so I'm not sure how much of a problem this will be, if it's a problem at all.

 

[tsunami70875]

Don't forget -- the dash button is now Side Taunt! And you can't use it without mapping something other than the D-pad to be Side Taunt.

wait, you didn't remove his original side taunt, though, did you??
but, up-taunt is probably better (IMO) for the dash, since it's closer to the control stick

 

[Eldiran]

I should probably clarify the whole "dash" button thing. Basically, Zero functions just like everyone else -- all 3 taunts, well, taunt. You cannot dash by pressing the D-pad. However! If you use the Unrestricted Control Editing code (in the OP), then any non-D-pad button you assign to be Side Taunt will cause Zero to dash.

The reason I changed it to Side Taunt is because I couldn't do this properly with Up-taunt (the game does not register up on the d-pad specifically, unlike left and right on the d-pad. It's complicated).

 

[ChronicleX]

Alright here is a review of 1.2 for you dude.

The good

-Bair is awesome and what it should of been.
-No crashes from dash button, you seem to have fixed it.
-Up B becoming grapple and recovery of side B on hit fix most of Zero's Recovery problems.
-The faster Shield Equip/removal makes it a less of a pain if you ever decide to use the worthless thing.
-If you decide to use the worthless shield it at least serves some purpose now.

The bad

-Down B in the air is WORTHLESS. If you have the shield you should throw it and if you dont why would you want to equip it to start falling + prevent the ability to side Dash.
-Z-Air (Including the UP B version) is also pretty worthless and causes issues when you try to tether. Many times even at point blank range of a ledge this comes out instead, causing Zero to fall to his doom, when he should not have.
-Dashing on ground is still really bad compared to the air version for both Side B and Up B.
-Double Tapping B when you up-B Cancels it into the Zair. This is a really bad thing, you should make it so you cant use it until the Up-B completes.
-Still cannot dash Dance in Brawl+ and it is really annoying.




The Suggestions.

-Add Dash attacks for the ground versions of Side / Up B. Examples.

Side B

Up A - Ryuenjin (like it is now but you always do this, instead of an upsmash, just make it weaker if you dont charge it)
Forward A- Raijingeki (The Forward Tilt version, but just the End part where he stabs it out)
Neutral A- Dash Attack
Down A- Recoil Rod Short Hop

Up B (these do not count as Air attacks but part of the Up-B itself)

- No Ideas here sorry, but maybe just make it so if used from the ground it counts as a ram attack of sorts instead of just a "jump waste". Currently there is no reason to use this on the ground AT ALL.


-Make the Shield worth having. Example

-Allow Zero to dash while using it, however using it means Zero cannot Grapple/tether, use the Special Ground Dash attacks (that I suggested above) or Attack from a dash in the air (because he is holding a shield so makes sense).
-Give the shielded version of the Dash some Invincibility frames and a little extra FX to show the Shield cutting the air/protecting Zero from the front. I know someone has the perfect effect for this, but the characters name/move eludes me atm. This could also have a slightly shorter range in the air (due to the extra weight of the shield) but also ram things it collides with (making this an attack instead of the ability to dash in the air).


And last but not least.

DISABLE Equip of the Shield in the AIR!.



Keep up the good work. He is fun to play and far from overpowered. Lvl 9 CPU still kick my *** when I use him

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

I'm not sure if you fixed this in 1.2 yet, because I haven't gotten to play with it, but, if you fire his neutral B while holding an item, he drops the item. I assume it has to do with generating an invisible gun for him to fire.