Eldiran's PSAs 'n' Stuff: Newest - Zero 1.4

[Fusion_Blastoise]

Though I am surprised to hear that Down-smash is useless, even with the charging shocks dealing 12%.

He didn't say down-smash was useless, just not all that good.

d-smash is a decent edgeguard against certain characters at best its pretty bad

It was down-B he had a bone to pick with and I agree. Maybe if the first shot could be realeased immeadiately, and it was possible to release a shock between charging the first and second and second and third shocks, this move would be made much more viable. As is, it is pretty useless and doesn't lead to anything really.

Wisp is also on the weaker side of things... I'd say about a Mario in vBrawl he could do with a buff or two.

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

it was vbrawl
no shes balanced. she doesnt need any super kill mosves. she has good setups into what she has and shes so hard to hit her weight isnt that much of a problem. Just make sure you have a full side-b charge at all times. the move is fast and has a huge hitbox so its not hard to hit with at all. She is made for gimping and boy is she good at it. She only really loses to people that outrange her (i have yet to try her against snake though) and she ***** people with bad recoveries. all she has to do is bait the airdodge (or just hit them) and there screwed. her attacks dont have much knockback but thats a good thing because when you f-air them off the level they dont fly back far enough to di up to help recover.
i wanna see what she does to snake's recovery. if its what i think it is then shes gonna **** snake harder than meta if she can get him in the air
oh and i meant ic's chaingrab

yes i dislike down b. it has no uses. not even in ffa since i still get hit trying to charge past lvl 1 so it actually does something. and its use in the air to drop faster is easily beaten by d-air since it moves you down sooooo fast.

i also think up air needs a range boost. you kind of have to use it like n-air if you want it to actually hit.

also upsmash needs slightly more horizontal of a hitbox. so then it can be used like marths. its already bad enough she gets no slide out of dash -> upsmash. you pretty much never hit with it.

if any knockback buffs are to be had then it should be on dash attack. its only use is killing so it should always be fresh but even then they have to be like 140 for them to die. id say a great buff would be that it kills maybe 20% earlier. 120 isnt too bad
This may need to be increased even more though heavies with good di live FOREVER against EVERYTHING she has.

also neutral b can be used as a tech-chase if you want to hit with your smashes, but i still think f-tilt is the best option unless they are in kill percents then do dash attack.


shes easily A tier. maybe lower S

i forgot to mention nair-> dair for momentum canceling

also fire wisp FTW

 

[Sudai]

The only buff I'm for is a UAir range buff. As said, she's already really good. Upper A is what I was feeling too and there's no reason to buff beyond that. If anything, nerfs are in order to make her more aligned to the rest of the cast. There's no need to change DownB, DSmash, or USmash because you really shouldn't be on the ground with her that often. Her aerials are excellent at popping people into the air and keeping them there. The only time I'm ever on the ground as wisp is when I'm charging Side-B, baiting for FSmash/Dash Attack, or getting my jumps back.

As for Dash Attack, keep it as is. Wisp isn't supposed to be able to kill early outside of gimps and she already has Side-B as a good all around finisher and her FSmash as a strong ground finisher.

 

[krazyzyko]

I believe we can all refer to wisp as an "it" instead of he/she.

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

i understand that but against heavies like snake he survives it at really high percents fresh, thats the only reason i see dash attack needing buffed.
idk we should wait a little while and see if it is really going to be nesseccary or not.

down b does need to be buffed because it has no use. right now she doesnt have a down b. whats the point in wasting a moveslot?

she spends a lot of time in the air but she actually does well on the ground too. her shield is huge and she has really good OOS options. her ground attacks are good, quick and have range.

also im just pointing out the weaknesses of moves. So long as something has a use at some point or another i think her moves are fine as well.

as far as nerfs im not sure what would actually be good, im going to have to play her in many more match-ups to see what really wrecks other characters. That way we wont nerf anything unnessiciary.

but right now after some thought i dont see anything that needs to be changed for better or worse minus down b.

 

[Sudai]

Not every move needs to have a use. He current move set covers most of the utility that she needs.

Oh, and I refuse to refer to Wisp as anything other than a female. Does that really matter though? Haha

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

yea but why not? will it really hurt anything? I just bothers me a little =p

oh and wisp IS female. I asked and she told me

 

[dino_gonzalez]

wisp balanced IDK
I use zelda and hitting wisp right on is harder then anyone else (unpredictable)
also the control seems as controllable as wario (+hard to see well)
the attack speed of maybe squirter with the attack retracting faster then marth (powerfull)
I love this character, I just don't think its balanced

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

once you learn what everything looks like its not bad. most peoples complaints were that they didnt know what she was doing. after about an hour of games i didnt hear it anymore. Shes very well balanced as it appears in high level play right now
not to mention all of zeldas normals are slow and a fast airborne character like wisp is gonna give zelda a hard time. Its just one more really hard match-up you have to worry about


oh yea buff her final smash too. it looks really cool but it will never kill. isnt that the poing of a final smash? it also doesnt do much damage when compared to other final smashes

 

[Sudai]

I have a feeling Wisp hard counters Zelda. That's just one match-up though. Deal with it.

 

[Fusion_Blastoise]

Wisp is he >: ( I've already married him

And wisp does counter Zelda. I think he does sit up quite high on the tier list. Around Olimar....

He also is most definately an awesome matchup againts Zelda. His visibility/randomness is something which is easy to get used to after playing him a few times.

 

[Eldiran]

This analysis is great. Wisp as high tier in vBrawl is probably the best I could hope for. I can definitely see Wisp being a real pain for Zelda, but that is likely just one advantageous matchup. Matchups like that probably make up for Wisp's item problems.

Given its current standing, I'm leery of improving Wisp at all, even by giving its useless down+B some real use. (Perhaps you can still use it to bring laser spammers to you...? Hopefully?) I am definitely looking out for anything that really wrecks characters too well though.

Thanks again guys for the insightful info.

EDIT: The Final Smash does also charge Wisp's Side+B for you, and can do up to 60% if you're directly above the foe when it's activated. It's basically supposed to set you up to Side+B 'em to death.

 

[D.B.K.]

It's been said already, but please give down B some sort of buff. If the first charge was available earlier the move would have at least some use.

Everything else is pretty much perfect though. Excellent work.

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

oh i didnt know it charged your side b. mainly because i always have it fully charged anyway =p

 

[Desire]

Do i put the file on jiggliypuff's as Fit***.PAC ?

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

FitPurin.pac

 

[FierceDeityLuigi]

THis.......is....like....fawkn awesome! omg i love this wisp :D ur good at this soo much cant wait if u ever make anymore.

 

[pwn&watch13]

im not sure if you know about this, but...

http://nintendobros.com/2009/08/15/possible-psa-exploit-but-its-very-tedious/

...God might not have to kill any more Jigglypuffs.

 

[Kitamerby]

I finally downloaded 1.2... and it feels perfect except for one thing...

Can we please have the old airspeed back? It feels so... clunky now. ;-; She still dies too early and can't deal with pressure, so it's not that broken... ;-; It felt so fluid before... ;-;
Maybe make her groundspeed slower like before, or make her even lighter to balance things out, but man, I loved that air speed. I wonder if other people would agree with me on that. <<

Maybe Fair or bair could have more lag like before. As much as I didn't like how it couldn't wop, the air speed was just too fun to control in 1.0... ;-;

Maybe you could release a test version with the old airspeed for a bit and see if people think it's broken or not. <<

 

[Eldiran]

im not sure if you know about this, but...

http://nintendobros.com/2009/08/15/possible-psa-exploit-but-its-very-tedious/

...God might not have to kill any more Jigglypuffs.

Oh hey! Can't believe I missed this post.

Interesting info, but unfortunately it doesn't address my problem. It still won't allow me to remove Jigglypuff cries in the first place. Thanks anyways though.

I finally downloaded 1.2... and it feels perfect except for one thing...

Can we please have the old airspeed back? It feels so... clunky now. ;-; She still dies too early and can't deal with pressure, so it's not that broken... ;-; It felt so fluid before... ;-;
Maybe make her groundspeed slower like before, or make her even lighter to balance things out, but man, I loved that air speed. I wonder if other people would agree with me on that. <<

Maybe Fair or bair could have more lag like before. As much as I didn't like how it couldn't wop, the air speed was just too fun to control in 1.0... ;-;

Maybe you could release a test version with the old airspeed for a bit and see if people think it's broken or not. <<

Huh, really! Honestly the mobility was only decreased by like 0.05. I honestly didn't notice the change myself. If you really wanted, you could alter the attribute to your liking in PSA.

By the way, I'm told Wisp's survivability increases dramatically if you mash down-air when you get knocked away.

I do hear your complaint though, and if I release a new version of Wisp, I'll definitely consider the air speed change.

EDIT: And thanks again for the com(pli)ments guys!

 

[LordshadowRagnarok]

Wisp's tornado does some horrific things with momentum stopping, including letting Game&Watch Fsmash lock someone and letting people survive a 3 PK Freeze bucket @ 300%

 

[Sudai]

Wisp too good in teams. lol

 

[Eldiran]

Yeah, Wisp can be a real jerk with those moves...

So! I've been playing lots and I'm finding that Wisp is not fun to play against. I've known this is true for a long time, but I'm finding it's to a greater degree then expected, and I'm gathering personal experience on it. So I'm going to try to fix some aspects of her character to be more tolerable/balanced/interesting/fun. These changes may be drastic. Here's what I've got so far:

- Side+B no charge is slower to repeat and has more knockback.
- Side+B full charge is no longer a damage dealer - it still kills well, but does only 5% tops!
- Down-tilt is 3 frames faster.
- Wisp moves when hit with shield, but this movement is forced with Character Momentum, so doesn't work as well as you might hope. Basically, it moves Wisp backward a fair amount when hit... this has two problems:
a) the direction of Wisp's movement relies on his facing, not the attack.
b) the distance moved is independent of the attacks knockback -- thus, multihits push far and single powerful attacks less so.

More will be changed, most likely! I am very much taking user input, and am keeping in mind all I've received so far. My plan is primarily to make Wisp rely much less on running away and a few staple moves (Side+B).

 

[A17]

How do I get wisp working? It's only got a pac. Dont flame just yet, I know it makes sense that wisp has no pcs because there is no coloured surfaces on wisp its all animated energy. I put in wisp as fitpurin02.pac onto my SD and no wisp appeared when i picked the sleep hat jigglypuff. How am I to get this working?

 

[Alphatron]

Don't put any numbers after FitPurin. It's just FitPurin.pac.

 

[A17]

oh so you dont pick a colour for it, makes sense now k thanks man

 

[Alphatron]

Yeah, putting numbers after the name is only necessary for textures. For character effects and PSA edits, only the name is needed.

 

[Sinzor]

Aww
Wasn't it fun figuring out the uncharged Side+B was ridiculous?
I thought you were going to kill me

 

[Eldiran]

Aww
Wasn't it fun figuring out the uncharged Side+B was ridiculous?
I thought you were going to kill me

Oh, it was incredibly fun.

Anyway! I've got a bigger changelist for Wisp v1.3 I wanted to run by anyone who was interested.

Changelist:
Version 1.3
- Graphical modifications, mainly to clarify facing and startup for moves.
- Backward hops always reverse direction (makes it easier to keep track of facing)
- Down+B cancelable by shield!
- Down-tilt 3 frames faster.
- Side+B charge level 0 made slower, more knockback.
- Side+B charge level 2 deals much more shield damage
- Side+B charge level 3 deals 5% or less, but similar knockback as before.
- Wisp moves when hit with shield

Do those changes look useful/interesting?

Also, I am considering a drastic change in the charging mechanism of Side+B: it will still be chargeable by turning/unshielding, but it would take much longer to do so. In addition, being hit would charge the side+B a substantial amount (more than turning around).

This is to give Wisp incentive to fight instead of just running away. Any thoughts or feedback?

 

[Photos]

i've tried to put it on my sd card to get it to work, but it's not working, do i need another file on my sd card to make it work? or do i just need to put it in a certain place?

 

[...:::VILE:::...]

You need the file replacement code and you need to be loading it through gecko OS.

It should be placed: private > wii > app > pf > fighter > purin > FitPurin.pac

 

[Photos]

aha, where can i get the gecko OS? or does it work with balenced brawl?

 

[FB Dj_Iskascribble]

i dont know if id like the fact that facing away from them and getting my shield hit would make me move toward them. that sounds really really awkward and wierd

 

[Eldiran]

i dont know if id like the fact that facing away from them and getting my shield hit would make me move toward them. that sounds really really awkward and wierd

Indeed it would. But do you think it'd be preferable to not move at all?

@Photos: I'd answer you, but someone provided an excellent response to one of your posts in another thread that should help.

 

[Photos]

where might this excellent response be?

 

[Xyless]

A few friends and I used the character in a FFA (all playing as Wisp), and let me say, it gave all of us headaches, especially when the smash balls showed up. Needless to say, I took Wisp out. He's fun though!

 

[Eldiran]

where might this excellent response be?

I'm afraid I've lost track of it, sorry. You should check all the threads you posted in.

A few friends and I used the character in a FFA (all playing as Wisp), and let me say, it gave all of us headaches, especially when the smash balls showed up. Needless to say, I took Wisp out. He's fun though!

Heh, glad you enjoy him in some capacity. It's understandable you wouldn't use him, particularly if any of your friends like to use Jigglypuff. Wisp should be a bit more tolerable in the next update, balance-wise and graphically (there'll be some wind to indicate facing, for example. Probably nothing that would help your headaches though).

 

[Photos]

aha! i found it! thanks anyway, i should be using wisp soon, but for now ciao!

 

[CyberKun]

I know this is a bit random, but a suggestion.

Can you make it when Wips does UpB in the air, she is pushed downwards a lot faster than it is now and maybe add some slight spiking?

More suggestion, make every 2-5 points of damage to Wisp make the sideb charge one point and every 3-5 damage to other charges by one. Right now the spamming back and fourth is kinda stupid.

To stop the running away though, I would make the air and ground speed nearly the same and make Wisp a tad heavier. Right now I still play like Jigglypuff and never go to the ground, stay outside the other players range, then sweep in with sideAair or airDown.

UpAir needs a slight increase in the width of the hitbox.
Side-B needs lower priority, even if you lower the amount of spam, I can still poke everything.
Grab needs to have a few more frames of delay if it missed, ranged grab with as much ending lag as a close grab means I can shield dash, grab, shield dash if I miss easy.

Also not dead.

 

[Eldiran]

I know this is a bit random, but a suggestion.

Can you make it when Wips does UpB in the air, she is pushed downwards a lot faster than it is now and maybe add some slight spiking?

More suggestion, make every 2-5 points of damage to Wisp make the sideb charge one point and every 3-5 damage to other charges by one. Right now the spamming back and fourth is kinda stupid.

To stop the running away though, I would make the air and ground speed nearly the same and make Wisp a tad heavier. Right now I still play like Jigglypuff and never go to the ground, stay outside the other players range, then sweep in with sideAair or airDown.

UpAir needs a slight increase in the width of the hitbox.
Side-B needs lower priority, even if you lower the amount of spam, I can still poke everything.
Grab needs to have a few more frames of delay if it missed, ranged grab with as much ending lag as a close grab means I can shield dash, grab, shield dash if I miss easy.

Also not dead.

Good feedback! The spike idea sounds cool, but I'm very leery of giving Wisp any accessible spike.

As for the charging mechanism... I agree about the back and forth being obnoxious. I don't think I could give it points on a hit though. I currently have it like this:

Charge level 1 : 10 points
Charge level 2 : 35 points
Charge level 3 : 80 points

Ways to charge:
Turn/drop shield/block an attack: +1 point
Get hit: +3 points
Get hit by electricity: +5 points

That last one I just found thematically interesting.

This change should do a lot to remedy the fleeing, since it becomes rather impractical to charge side+B to level 3 just by turning. Not to mention level 3 is only good as a kill move now.

I'm told up-air is one of his best moves, so I'm not sure about improving it.

Regarding Side+B (I assume you mean charge level 0) that is a bit disconcerting... do you think having a solid poke is too good for Wisp?

The other changes I will definitely consider when I get this next version out. I might go ahead and give a bit of extra lag to the grab though.

Thanks again for the input!