Does Falco beat Sheik?

[unknown522]

You failed to point out where Amsah was in the air more than he should be. You originally said that Zhu missed a lot of shine opportunities, but you only pointed out 3 times and in none of those situations is it clear that teh shine is the best option. You also pointed out 0 times where Zhu blocked a misspaced attack that could have been punished with shine as you originally said. All of his rolls are sound decisions. Using two matches from the same tournament against the same player to say that Zhu doesn't know the match up is unjustified. All that can be said from this set is that Zhu didn't play it well this time.

Jeez, now I'll have to go that in-depth and say exactly what I would've done in those situations. N1ggaz be lazy. Also, if you watch the first 5 seconds, he blocks at least 3 poorly spaced attacks and could've punished with many things easily, or just lasered so that the situation would've came up and he'd be at positional advantage. Amsah also jumps in place and f-airs a few times and didn't get n-air'd or lasered for it.

Anyways, maybe I should've phrased it better and said that there are a lot of poor decisions that are made, when there is obviously an easy answer to what they could've done.

Also, ftr I do play falco. He's a secondary. I just don't use him vs spacies often (well fox sometimes).

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

I'm pretty sure he does. But this is coming from my experience from over 2 years ago. Has the Sheik metagame evolved that she now beats Falco?

I don't think he does. The assumption that Sheik beats Falco IMO is due to Sheik not being developed enough in the USA to beat him. Sheik has actually got a lot going for her. Her range is annoying and a hit by Sheik on Falco at 30%+ can easily result in a stock lost for Falco (if Sheik knows how to combo, at least). Falco has definitely got a lot of stuff going for him too (lasers, speed, comboes to name a few) but IMO the match up is still on Sheik's side because she KOs Falco more easily than he does with Sheik (doesn't matter wheter it is by cheap kills or comboes). Things might be different in PAL because Sheik hasn't got her **** D-throw, but so far I've never been able to beat Amsah a single time in a tournament set. Still not an impossible match up, I agree with Amsah on 55:45 on Sheik's favor.

I played, PP, Zhu and Mango in friendlies, Zhu and some guy named Falcomist in the brackets..=] (Pretty much the noteworthy Falcos that were there..except Dehf or whatever his name is..)

And out of those 4 Mango was most definitely the hardest to fight..

How do they compare to me btw? I know Mango's better for sure, but how were the other 3?

 

[Nihonjin]

^Hmm...I'm not really sure..
I think you're better against Sheik that's for sure, but overal it's hard to say, I didn't play them that much..=[

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

^Hmm...I'm not really sure..
I think you're better against Sheik that's for sure, but overal it's hard to say, I didn't play them that much..=[

**** it, I'll never get any chance to play americans xD

Also move your a$$ and come to Berlin calling, I'm bringing several other Italians this time.

 

[Dynamism?]

Nihonjin says something like: Of some of the best Falcos in the world, Mango was most definitely the hardest to fight...
And Mango says something like: The better player will win, techskill and match up means little...
Sooo conclusion?

The better player wins, at lower levels AND higher levels.

Sound good?

Really though, for the most part, Shiek does have an easier time fighting Falco when she knows what she's doing. Falco has to play much safer and cautious. Meaning, because FALCO has to change what he's doing to win, Shiek in fact has the upper hand.

But not if Falco is a better player.
LOLOLOL

Seriously though...

 

[KirbyKaze]

Everyone beats Falco wtf.

 

[Charlesz]

Agree with KirbyKaze

 

[JPOBS]

Really though, for the most part, Shiek does have an easier time fighting Falco when she knows what she's doing. Falco has to play much safer and cautious. Meaning, because FALCO has to change what he's doing to win, Shiek in fact has the upper hand.

.

i dont see falco having to change what he's doing at all.

he still has to laser a lot like every matchup and combo when he gets a hit. Nothing new at all.

the only slight difference in the sheik matchup is that you have to respect her sheild. But even then, she's no fox.

 

[Deleted member]

And Mango says something like: The better player will win, techskill and match up means little...

sounds like troll advice to me. tech skill obviously matters or sloppy players would still perform well.

I don't think falco beats sheik....but I do think falco's dair and lasers beat sheik. sheik can deal with the rest of his character fairly easily IMO.

 

[Mogwai]

sounds like troll advice to me. tech skill obviously matters or sloppy players would still perform well.

I don't think falco beats sheik....but I do think falco's dair and lasers beat sheik. sheik can deal with the rest of his character fairly easily IMO.

sounds like more than a few other matchups for Falco

 

[Deleted member]

sounds like more than a few other matchups for Falco

definitely so, but I wasn't trying to be funny. sheik's strongest game is definitely to her sides, she has problems dropping down onto a character or being under a character with good aerial priority (less so than the prior). of the top/high tiers anyway, I think sheik has the hardest time with falco's dair.

 

[Mogwai]

definitely so, but I wasn't trying to be funny. sheik's strongest game is definitely to her sides, she has problems dropping down onto a character or being under a character with good aerial priority (less so than the prior). of the top/high tiers anyway, I think sheik has the hardest time with falco's dair.

I wholeheartedly agree and mentioned something to that effect earlier in the thread, but people seem to think sheiks can find a way to trade with dair from below... I dunno, just sounds like misspacing to me.

 

[Deleted member]

I wholeheartedly agree and mentioned something to that effect earlier in the thread, but people seem to think sheiks can find a way to trade with dair from below... I dunno, just sounds like misspacing to me.

all I can think of is a fast upair at low % that trades right above the ground so she lands with no stun. I guess mid % into a tech would do it too but not with any reward unless falco doesn't DI the upair hit away. I dislike strategies that rely on opponents to be bad.

 

[forward]

Up air is good as Falco is rising from his jump because he usually doesn't start the dair until the top of his jump or on his way down.

 

[Aldwyn McCloud]

sounds like troll advice to me. tech skill obviously matters or sloppy players would still perform well.

I don't think falco beats sheik....but I do think falco's dair and lasers beat sheik. sheik can deal with the rest of his character fairly easily IMO.

To me it doesn't sound that much of a troll. You definitely shouldn't apply it to everything, like to sloppy players or match ups involving bottom tiers but if I remember right Mango used to **** many people as Falco even when he wasn't as technical as he is now.

Falco's lasers if used properly are indeed a problem for Sheik (although there have been occasions in which I actually saw Sheik outspamming Falco, mostly involving Nihonjin though).

Falco's dair works only in certain situations and if Sheik is airborne. If Sheik is on the ground she can back WD + grab, Nair oos, Short hop Fair in advance, punish it in just way too many ways mostly due to the Dair's poor horizontal range.

If in the air, provided that Falco is above Sheik, Dair will do. In the best case scenario Sheik can only manage to trade hits. If Falco isn't exactly above Sheik though spacing is somewhat possible. I catch Falco players off guard very often because of this.

It mostly comes down to how much the Sheik is good in seeing the Dair coming and how careful and sparing Falco is in using it. It's not that bad, but definitely not the trump card in this match up if you ask me.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Up air is good as Falco is rising from his jump because he usually doesn't start the dair until the top of his jump or on his way down.

I used to think this was dandy but then I learned it loses to literally everything else in his arsenal.

 

[unknown522]

lol, dandy.

 

[I.B]

I used to think this was dandy but then I learned it loses to literally everything else in his arsenal.

Even his almighty f-air?!?

Interesting thread, I hope it progresses.

 

[JPOBS]

fair *****.

i once accidently combo'd upthrow into fair and landed all hits and it was ****.
should do it more often.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Hey JPOBS remember that U-throw Bair Bair Shine combo that ***** sauc3 but never happened?

Yeah, neither do I.

 

[JPOBS]

comboing two weak bairs off stage into a shine on BF doesnt exist and never happened so no i dont remember sorry.

 

[forward]

I used to think this was dandy but then I learned it loses to literally everything else in his arsenal.

Maybe you should stop using it then if it is not in the situation which I described.

 

[Mogwai]

but you have to make a commitment to doing that before you're 100% sure of the situation...

human reaction time's a ***** for proper decision making :\...

 

[forward]

True.

I think the game would be ******** if you could play entirely off of reactions.

 

[unknown522]

falco's d-air beats pretty much everything. Just throw it out randomly without aiming.

P.S. Falco loses to everyone. Lasers aren't that good

 

[Dynamism?]

falco's d-air beats pretty much everything. Just throw it out randomly without aiming.

P.S. Falco loses to everyone. Lasers aren't that good

So if you beat Falco's Dair, he has nothing else.

Easy, we got this!!!

 

[unknown522]

if only.....

 

[Life After Death]

its even.....

 

[iamthemicrowave]

foxes uptilt can beat falcos dair

 

[JPOBS]

beat if done before the dair hitbox is out i guess :/ but thats hardly beating a move

trade at best otherwise. get ***** at worst.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

You failed to point out where Amsah was in the air more than he should be. You originally said that Zhu missed a lot of shine opportunities, but you only pointed out 3 times and in none of those situations is it clear that teh shine is the best option. You also pointed out 0 times where Zhu blocked a misspaced attack that could have been punished with shine as you originally said. All of his rolls are sound decisions. Using two matches from the same tournament against the same player to say that Zhu doesn't know the match up is unjustified. All that can be said from this set is that Zhu didn't play it well this time.

I'm terrible against Sheik. Amsah can testify LOL.

I need Kira to play again / relearn the Sheik matchup. It used to be one of my favorite matchups but I think I kinda forgot how it worked. I kept getting punished for bad shield pressure / bad decisions when shield pressured... basically I really need to rework my approach. Ah well, I'll just hope I have all Falcons, Peaches, Puffs, and Foxes LOL.

 

[unknown522]

all dai son. Beat Hbox for me please zhu!!!

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

all dai son. Beat Hbox for me please zhu!!!

I actually really respect him as a player. I think he's legitimately really good, but it's a shame he three stocks me LOL

 

[ViciousEnd]

True.

I think the game would be ******** if you could play entirely off of reactions.

I would prefer it this way. That's how I typically tech chase. I just don't get broken insane punishes off as often as if I were guessing.

 

[unknown522]

I actually really respect him as a player. I think he's legitimately really good, but it's a shame he three stocks me LOL

aww.

Be gay with fox. It's the key to beating him. I haven't played Hbox in almost 2 years. I've wanted to play him far in a tourney so badly. I've got lots of things I want to try,

 

[forward]

I'm terrible against Sheik. Amsah can testify LOL.

I need Kira to play again / relearn the Sheik matchup. It used to be one of my favorite matchups but I think I kinda forgot how it worked. I kept getting punished for bad shield pressure / bad decisions when shield pressured... basically I really need to rework my approach. Ah well, I'll just hope I have all Falcons, Peaches, Puffs, and Foxes LOL.

I've seen you play much better. I think that you simply weren't at the top of your game at Pound.

 

[Shaeman111]

I'm terrible against Sheik. Amsah can testify LOL.

I need Kira to play again / relearn the Sheik matchup. It used to be one of my favorite matchups but I think I kinda forgot how it worked. I kept getting punished for bad shield pressure / bad decisions when shield pressured... basically I really need to rework my approach. Ah well, I'll just hope I have all Falcons, Peaches, Puffs, and Foxes LOL.

You're amazing zhu, but you have your on and off days.
I think it's the consistency. Some days you just ****, and some days you're like... why did i just lose?

Sheik is gay tho, u got johns.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

I've seen you play much better. I think that you simply weren't at the top of your game at Pound.

It's actually reassuring that you guys think this. Maybe one day I'll make you guys proud =)

 

[unknown522]

It's hard to play consistently with space animals for long periods of time. I feel your pain.

 

[Dynamism?]

And easy to play consistently with characters that don't have many buttons to press.