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Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!
- Thread starter otg
- Start date
The times that it rises and falls, and the heights.
Moy
Where's the coffee cake?
Doesn't YS's cloud have a pattern?
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I thought there was a pattern. I don't remember who told me that but that's what I heard.
Yes. It's completely time based. It's like, out on :09's, in on 04's, comes out on one side on even numbers (:00, 20, etc), other side on odds (:10, 30, etc)
But what you're not thinking about are the flyguys.
For the few times I've actually tried to find a pattern, I never found one. Im not saying it doesnt exist, maybe Im just not realizing something.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
D:< D:< D:<
YOUR DOC IS STUPID ANYWAY! I HATE YOU!
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
And of those 5, only 3 are truly non-random.
Don't the cars get stuck on each other and do different patterns sometimes?
And with Floats, you can randomly fall through parts.
If we're arguing semantics, anyway.
But yeah, **** whispy.
Shroomed
Smash Master
that only happens if you hold into the stage
on yoshi's story, the cloud comes out whenever the timer has a 4 for the seconds
(06:54, 06:44, etc.)
sometimes i hate this game, even when i love it so much
pockyD
Smash Legend
i don't think falling through pokemon is random
battlefield edges definitely aren't random
battlefield edges definitely aren't random
otg
Smash Master
Wait, so you believe that faling through pokemon on Rainbow Cruise happens for a reason? Please share, I had no idea
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,559
there is absolutely nothing random about Jungle Japes and Kongo Jungle.
but yeah flyguys are the random part of YS... it doesn't usually make a difference though. i've only seen the hitlag make much of a difference in the middle of a combo allowing for some weird DIing out of combos O:
but yeah flyguys are the random part of YS... it doesn't usually make a difference though. i've only seen the hitlag make much of a difference in the middle of a combo allowing for some weird DIing out of combos O:
Shroomed
Smash Master
pockyD
Smash Legend
yes, i'm pretty sure it has to do with your character coming at seel (or whoever) at a certain angle/speedWait, so you believe that faling through pokemon on Rainbow Cruise happens for a reason? Please share, I had no idea
i'm more intrigued by what else you think it COULD be... do you think the game takes a random number 1-100, and if it's under 10, it makes your character fall through? that seems far less reasonable than it being deterministic
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
I doubt much of this game uses RNGs, if any of it. It's random until people figure it out, just like falling through PS is. Yeah, we know it happens on seel/during the transformation phase, but beyond that...
With BF, just learn where the sweetspot is. I haven't been battlefielded in a LOOOOOOOOOOONG time.
pockyD
Smash Legend
i would be surprised if, say, pokemon stadium's transformations or dreamland's wispy woods were determined by anything other than an RNG
The Alpha Gundam
Smash Champion
Good jog Dogy on telling the doc players more useless info. I'm sure the meta game will evolve from this ya dumb darky XD
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
Same, pocky. I still don't believe the misfire is random, though. Jeris combos into that **** too often.
EDIT: PockyD, come to SuperCon!
Also, everyone else!
EDIT: PockyD, come to SuperCon!
Also, everyone else!
otg
Smash Master
meant pokefloats. and pockyd understood me though that would be interesting but seems like it would be really hard to test.
I've always wondered about the actual cars. I do know (or atleast I'm pretty sure) that they come at specific times.
As for falling through floats; that's not random, but the criteria for it is dumb as hell (it's the same thing as on corneria. You fall through the fin if Great Fox is going up and you're doing _____)
*points up*Wait, so you believe that faling through pokemon on Rainbow Cruise happens for a reason? Please share, I had no idea
Japes = Klaptrap. You dont know how bad I want that klaptrap to come out at set intervals. That stage would be so frickin hilarious if it did.
KJ64 = Barrel.
A
As for YS, imagine you're playing ness. At random times, you now have a seperate target to PK fire off of. Also, you randomly cant recover with PKT2.
You're just mad because we're in here chillin, having a good time, and spittin knowledge about an 8 year old game while you blonde headed hoes are down there tryin to figure out how to approach something.
Why dont you drive over here and do something about it?!??!?!?!?!?!?!
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
**** Dogy, way to kill a thread.
Dogysamich: Thread Slayer.
I think ima sit down and work on chaingrab enders today.
I think ima sit down and work on chaingrab enders today.
anthony000
Smash Journeyman
That actually is a great idea.
otg
Smash Master
Yeah this is typically my train of thought as well, although if they DI the uthrow in a certain way I always look for a regrab. Cause realistically, if you are going to CG spacies/falcon, uthrow-> CG to 55%-60% (depends on character) -> uthrow Uair (another 15%) -> regrab (plus jabs) is around uthrow -> fair KO %. And if not, I go for a dthrow CG cause honestly that **** is broke, no one looks for it and it actually makes fthrow viable.
*Looks at last post time* Good, I still can do it before I go to bed and say I didnt put this off.
___
I mean, there's the real standard *** ****
-throw
-f.smash
and then there's the somewhat advanced ****
-u.air -> "fail"
I just need to explore all the options that are available. I mean, there's no set list anywhere, so. I wanna see stuff such as
1) can you walk and f.smash a FFer (WD probably doesnt work because of timing).
2) could you possibly put heavyweights on the wheel of fortune (ganon/sheik/roy/dk/yoshi/pika/link/y.link)
And then just other **** in general about it.
___
I mean, there's the real standard *** ****
-throw
-f.smash
and then there's the somewhat advanced ****
-u.air -> "fail"
I just need to explore all the options that are available. I mean, there's no set list anywhere, so. I wanna see stuff such as
1) can you walk and f.smash a FFer (WD probably doesnt work because of timing).
2) could you possibly put heavyweights on the wheel of fortune (ganon/sheik/roy/dk/yoshi/pika/link/y.link)
And then just other **** in general about it.
I just learned that D-throw > F-smash works on Fox from at least 70%, so I expect to be ending a lot mor chain grabs with that.
EDIT: Wait, that means...
EDIT2: Holy ****, you can start a D-throw CG a lot earlier than I thought you could.
Wow. you can pretty much 0-death a fox on FD.
EDIT3: After real-person testing it appears that there is a small gap between where the U-throw CG ends and where the D-throw chain grab starts to work.
EDIT: Wait, that means...
EDIT2: Holy ****, you can start a D-throw CG a lot earlier than I thought you could.
Wow. you can pretty much 0-death a fox on FD.
EDIT3: After real-person testing it appears that there is a small gap between where the U-throw CG ends and where the D-throw chain grab starts to work.
metashinryu
Smash Ace
how about uthrow-bair-doublejump uair-fsmash? just came to my mind,i havent tried it,i supose it will work if you hit em with the last part of uair
EDIT:doesnt work,bair sends em too far away.
EDIT:doesnt work,bair sends em too far away.
that doesn't make any sense.
eighteenspikes
Smash Master
uthrow -> wd -> fsmash works and is guaranteed
scratch the doublejump and make it a weak reverse bair. then it works
hmm, maybe I just dont trust it.uthrow -> wd -> fsmash works and is guaranteed
-shrug-
Or maybe I just have some mental image of greenmario's mario stuck in my head. Either or.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
You can end with usmash x 2 > aerial rave on some characters. I can't remember who right now though. Hella tired from a party last night. D:
otg
Smash Master
Aight, so let me discuss the Dthrow CG vs. spacies a bit, because it's incredibly useful for tacking on that extra damage, tricking your opponent, and yes if you can somehow pull it off a 0-death on FD against spacies they can't get out of (although you really have better options tbh).
So yeah, dthrow CG tend to work after 75%ish I've noticed, give or a take about 5%. You can do it much lower, like around 50% or so but it will only work if they don't DI and you regrab immediately, so it's not guaranteed but it's kinda funny to dribble the ball real quick before you Kobe feel me? lol.
IMO, it's semi-situational as you might be better off with a different option, but I find it to be really useful on platform stages where an uthrow would give them a chance to escape potentially (although with those Forward tricks you still **** em ) It's also really good on platforms in general because they have VERY limited options of a dthrow. So if they try to DI off the top platform to a lower one, or from the lower platform off stage or to the middle, you can follow them with a falling uair, or if you catch with a dsmash/dropzone fair (that one is particularly hilarious) it will probably KO them (seeing as how they had to be high% anyway for Dthrow CG to work).
Next, dthrow -> usmash is an amazing follow up from the dthrow CG at various %'s. Around the 70-85% range, the usmash will have enough hitstun to follow into a Fair. At higher %'s, like around 140 or so, it KO's. I have no idea what the exact % is, it could be lower or higher, but experiment... honestly at that % you are probably better off finishing them with a fthrow or bthrow.
And you are like "OMG WTF FTHROW... WTF", and you know what, you would be right 9/10. Fthrow is great in the dthrow CG because a good amount of the time they will not expect it, and when they don't DI it at high %'s that is a SUPER easy edgeguard for you, and vs. someone like Falco, it could be enough to KO his ****ty recovery.
The only advice I can give on performing the CG, is always anticipate that they will DI behind you because that is the only difficult part of the CG. Just guess they will DI behind you, and if they don't follow up. If they DI infront of you, it's no problem because you should be able to follow up easy enough, and if they don't DI a fsmash/dsmash or regrab is inorder. Hell, you could probably WD/run in with a smash and have it connect, personally I've never tried
it.
That's all you need to know about this broken ****ing CG, enjoy. I will also be putting this in the OP incase anyone wants to reference it again.
EDIT: I also have to clarify that I am NOT proposing you do this inplace of Throw-> kobe at all. If you can get the KO by all means go for it. I also am not advocating doing this whenever you get the chance, if you feel you have a better option than by all means go for it. IMO dthrow CG is useful between 60-80%ish because it allows you a few free percents for the throw-> kobe range, and it's useful after 115%+ or so, when throw -> kobe is no longer guaranteed, and you aren't sure how to handle the situation.
Do what you will with this, but it's nice to have options.
So yeah, dthrow CG tend to work after 75%ish I've noticed, give or a take about 5%. You can do it much lower, like around 50% or so but it will only work if they don't DI and you regrab immediately, so it's not guaranteed but it's kinda funny to dribble the ball real quick before you Kobe feel me? lol.
IMO, it's semi-situational as you might be better off with a different option, but I find it to be really useful on platform stages where an uthrow would give them a chance to escape potentially (although with those Forward tricks you still **** em
) It's also really good on platforms in general because they have VERY limited options of a dthrow. So if they try to DI off the top platform to a lower one, or from the lower platform off stage or to the middle, you can follow them with a falling uair, or if you catch with a dsmash/dropzone fair (that one is particularly hilarious) it will probably KO them (seeing as how they had to be high% anyway for Dthrow CG to work).Next, dthrow -> usmash is an amazing follow up from the dthrow CG at various %'s. Around the 70-85% range, the usmash will have enough hitstun to follow into a Fair. At higher %'s, like around 140 or so, it KO's. I have no idea what the exact % is, it could be lower or higher, but experiment... honestly at that % you are probably better off finishing them with a fthrow or bthrow.
And you are like "OMG WTF FTHROW... WTF", and you know what, you would be right 9/10. Fthrow is great in the dthrow CG because a good amount of the time they will not expect it, and when they don't DI it at high %'s that is a SUPER easy edgeguard for you, and vs. someone like Falco, it could be enough to KO his ****ty recovery.
The only advice I can give on performing the CG, is always anticipate that they will DI behind you because that is the only difficult part of the CG. Just guess they will DI behind you, and if they don't follow up. If they DI infront of you, it's no problem because you should be able to follow up easy enough, and if they don't DI a fsmash/dsmash or regrab is inorder. Hell, you could probably WD/run in with a smash and have it connect, personally I've never tried
it.
That's all you need to know about this broken ****ing CG, enjoy. I will also be putting this in the OP incase anyone wants to reference it again.
EDIT: I also have to clarify that I am NOT proposing you do this inplace of Throw-> kobe at all. If you can get the KO by all means go for it. I also am not advocating doing this whenever you get the chance, if you feel you have a better option than by all means go for it. IMO dthrow CG is useful between 60-80%ish because it allows you a few free percents for the throw-> kobe range, and it's useful after 115%+ or so, when throw -> kobe is no longer guaranteed, and you aren't sure how to handle the situation.
Do what you will with this, but it's nice to have options.
So, just because I conned toasty into putting it up, im putting this video here
because "♫ I love the waaaaaay I move ♪"
because "♫ I love the waaaaaay I move ♪"
rpgfighter
Smash Journeyman
Christopher Rodriguez
The illest Project M Bowser
nice vid there. i got excited whenever toasty almost had the yyg haha. dont think i've seen this particular matchup anywhere
I mean, I've actually played it quite a few times on both ends, but You'd be surprised what matches you find if you actually look
XD
XD
toasty
Smash Hero
it'd be a lot better if you didn't settle on a good Doc vs. a really crappy Ness [good god I was terrible then @_@] and actually looked for a GOOD example of the matchup XD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPsV-1tZ8BA
also: thanks peoples...I'll make sure to **** Dogy's **** next time ^_^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPsV-1tZ8BA
also: thanks peoples...I'll make sure to **** Dogy's **** next time ^_^
metashinryu
Smash Ace
nice one,i didnt think about it that wayscratch the doublejump and make it a weak reverse bair. then it works
oh and istead of wavedashing-fsmash why noy just walk to it? its easier and about the same speed