Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[otg]

So I'm just putting this out there. We've discussed Doc's hard counters in full detail a number of times, as well as who is the hardest etc etc, a BILLION times. But yeah, I'm considering that Falcon truly is Doc's hardest matchup. I've been using Falcon a lot recently, and spent a good 2 hours playing against a local Doc main... and wow there were a lot 4 stockings. I'm probably better than him in terms of skill, but like if Falcon spaces himself out right and cuts through pill approaches with nairs... Doc can't do ****.

 

[Vulcan55]

Falcon has been really hard for me since my Brother started to main him and get good.
Luckily, at the tourneys I go to, not very many people have Doc experience.

 

[Gea]

Yeah after thinking about it and playing the matchup again, its definitely a HARD matchup and I'd much rather fight a Marth.

 

[St. Viers]

I'd rather fight neither...if they know how to play against doc, doc can't do anything to either...

Though it's definitely easier to mess marth up when they get impatient... however, I'm not good enough with utilizing DDing, which helps more against falcon than marth (as falcon's range is shorter, and easier to punish a miss)

 

[otg]

Falcon has been really hard for me since my Brother started to main him and get good.
Luckily, at the tourneys I go to, not very many people have Doc experience.

Yeah definitely, right now the biggest asset Doc has going for him is the hope that your opponent has no idea how to fight you lol. I ***** the crap out of Hax's Falcon on tuesday, and I doubt he has fought a decent Doc before me.

I'd rather fight neither...if they know how to play against doc, doc can't do anything to either...

Though it's definitely easier to mess marth up when they get impatient... however, I'm not good enough with utilizing DDing, which helps more against falcon than marth (as falcon's range is shorter, and easier to punish a miss)

Well, I wouldn't say Doc can't do ANYTHING. You need to be on point with your edgeguards and make every opportunity to punish count... and that's not to easy if they space themselves out right, but it is possible.

Frankly I think if we as Doc's want to compete, we gotta start Bob$ing the **** out of people every single god**** stock. They are off the stage? Keep em off. Easier said than done, but it's probably the only hope we have.

 

[Wafles]

Frankly I think if we as Doc's want to compete, we gotta start Bob$ing the **** out of people every single god**** stock. They are off the stage? Keep em off. Easier said than done, but it's probably the only hope we have.

theres a reason something named after a DBR member is never seen in tourney matches

 

[St. Viers]

^^ it is.

Yeah, I've just started edgeguarding all out. Nair trades with many things, and as long as you edgetech/DI above the stage, it works really well.

OTG--I'm playing someone I could like 3 stock w/ doc (he'd given up on smash for awhile, but I brought him around) and now it's at the point where I have to outthink him to be able to even get a tightly spaced f-tilt in. I still have a chance, because he gets too aggressive (especially on stages with platforms), but on FD (which he hates and would ban if I ever had to play him in a tourney), it's nearly impossible now, even though it's my best stage, and his least fav....

I keep trying though, because I feel Doc is better than many credit him for.

EDIT: the reason Doc is much harder to do well with is he isn't godly in any aspect, so he actually takes some sort of mental broadness that many players simply lack (thanks to the ability to play solely with tech skill as some chars, and do well)

I'm slowly getting better at spacing, and reaction time, but my success with doc after getting it down simply doesn't show as much as it does with my fox and shiek, even though I'm more technically proficient with doc (as in, I mess up l-cancels as fox still XD)

Wish I could record some vids, I def have a unique doc style, I fear (unique in a bad way >_>_

 

[Dogysamich]

godly in every aspect?

Fox gets comboed to death, gimped alot and chaingrabbed, falco the same but more.

Marth has no long range game.

Sheik has a gimpable recovery and gets chaingrabbed.

melee is one of the few games where the best character(s) in the game have some blatent exploitable flaws.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

thats also why melee is the best fighting game.

this isn't flame bait

 

[otg]

theres a reason something named after a DBR member is never seen in tourney matches

I don't understand what you are talking about... I bob$ people every now and then. A lot of the time when you get a bair off stage you can keep going with it but people are afraid cause of his bad recovery. Just go all out!! You'd be surprised how often it works.

 

[St. Viers]

>_> I meant any aspect--edited to reflect that.

Also, I usually bair people twice, just to make sure, as long as I've kept my jump...to keep on topic

 

[Dogysamich]

Man, ****-a-money shot. I got the Kagekaze. that **** is off the chain.

b.air suicide. :D

And YES I FINALLY GOT THE S IN MY NAME LOWERCASED. I'VE BEEN MEANING TO DO THAT ON HERE FOR YEARS!

 

[ranmaru]

How did you do that? :] As for Doc, I wish I could say something... but I have nothing helpfull to say or am not thinking much at all... meh. I guess I'm just getting bummed out.

 

[St. Viers]

About being doc? Because something I realized is that 99% of the time, we aren't losing because we pick doc, we lose because we're simply not as good as the people we're trying to beat.

So we just need to get better. I mean, I've thought (as we all have, prolly) about picking up other chars--I'd say my fox is the same level of my doc, but if I used fox, I'd still lose to the people who can beat my doc, for the same reasons. I'd misspace, I'd make technical mistakes, and I'd be predictable, and all that **** that happens to my doc.

Changing characters doesn't make us actually perform better, and until I reach a level where it does, I'm not gonna give up one doc.
[/ self-inspirational rant]

 

[ranmaru]

Well, mostly about myself. Although, thoughts of... "Hey, will I get anywhere with Doc?" arise sometimes (Those thoughts usually happen at tournaments). Then I think, will I ever get better than I am now?

Of course, I'll never give up on Doc, never. I wouldn't feel right if I tried Shiek or Fox. (Fox is nice though, fun to play) I play Doc because he is my favorite, and I would love to see myself doing crazy **** with Doc, no one else. I try to think of other people I could use as a main, and I can't. Like a MAIN MAIN that I would not fear taking out at a tournament, I thought Samus may have been that main, but I can't... I don't understand... Samus is like, not how I play, you know? Like you said, I play the same way with her as with Doc, but she is so floaty that the way I play... I guess I leave myself vulnerable. Or not, I don't know...

But you are right.. Most of the people I play are better than me. Which, I guess is a good thing, to get better.

 

[otg]

Changing characters doesn't make us actually perform better, and until I reach a level where it does, I'm not gonna give up one doc.
[/ self-inspirational rant]

Actually... not to burst your bubble but I perform DRASTICALLY better when going Fox/Falcon over Doc.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

lol doc mains,

play falco and ness

 

[St. Viers]

@otg--you are probably better than me, so no offense taken =P

Even if you aren't, I stand by my statement...

...

>_>

EDIT: lol macman--play you next MM I appear at?

 

[#HBC | Mac]

so HMW got 9th at a Huge 115+ tourney on west coast, beating out people like the amazing FORWARD; Dogy ****ing won a GA tourney beating georgia notables like fullmetal, sleepy k, dashdancedan, and GAwes.

It was a good weekend for doc mains.

Someone gimme a dogysamich and some homemadewaffle fries...

[I know, that was a terribly whack *** last line.]

 

[otg]

@otg--you are probably better than me, so no offense taken =P

Even if you aren't, I stand by my statement...

...

>_>

lol sorry. I didn't mean to come off as a ****, I was just stating my own personal experience. I think one of the big reasons my high/top tiers do better overall is because my area is good at dealing with Doc. I feel like if I was in the middle of bumble**** Iowa or something I'd be like the best Doc main/player, but who the **** cares about Iowa lol?

Also, good **** to HMW and Dogy, confirming my beliefs that they are the two best Doc's currently.

 

[Vulcan55]

so HMW got 9th at a Huge 115+ tourney on west coast, beating out people like the amazing FORWARD; Dogy ****ing won a GA tourney beating georgia notables like fullmetal, sleepy k, dashdancedan, and GAwes.

It was a good weekend for doc mains.

Someone gimme a dogysamich and some homemadewaffle fries...

[I know, that was a terribly whack *** last line.]

I was just looking at the Official Mango Juice results thread and HMW isn't actually listed on there. (Unless he goes by some other name)
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=227090
However, when to top 8 were posted in the original thread, HMW was said to have gotten 9th.

Also, apparently Bob$ got 13th.

 

[Dogysamich]

Well, lets do some math here.

HMW Said he got 9th.

Now, lets look at the people who got 9th.

9: Pink Shinobi
9: Eggz
9: Brandon
9: DEHF

Lets see. Pink Shinobi. Sounds like an alias. Eggz? Yeah. DEHF? better be. So we're left with 1 n**ga named brandon.

Now, HMW said he got 9th, and there's a random guy named Brandon who got 9th. HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

YEAH.

 

[ranmaru]

LOL WHY DIDNT YOU JUS GIB US DA ANSER? lol jk ;3

I don't like math anyways. THAT WASNT MATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like logic, it seems... (even though I like proofs and such in Geometry) Ok...I do like Algebra and Geometry, just not what comes after. xD

Anyways, I was using Doc's Uair more, it works wonders. xD

 

[otg]

Brandon == HMW. Wow, he did better than Bobby? Were they both going all Doc?

 

[Vulcan55]

oh hay, I found that gif you guys were talking about earlier.

It was on Cinder's photobucket.

 

[Gea]

Gawd I love the Doc boards.

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

Brandon == HMW. Wow, he did better than Bobby? Were they both going all Doc?

my real name is brandon lol

bobby went doc/fox/marth

bobby beat edress

i went all doc lol

shroomed went all doc

he almost beat taj 3rd game last hit last stock on brinstar160%(marth vs doc)

he missed a dunk

and yea........

 

[Dogysamich]

-sigh- Docs missin dunks, man.

I cant talk. But ****.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Man, ****-a-money shot. I got the Kagekaze. that **** is off the chain.

b.air suicide. :D

And YES I FINALLY GOT THE S IN MY NAME LOWERCASED. I'VE BEEN MEANING TO DO THAT ON HERE FOR YEARS!

Wheeeeeeeeeeee

What is up Doc boards?

I hear your character is representing.

Sheik does not approve.

 

[Dogysamich]

Sheik can not like it all she wants. Lemme grab another one of those maa****ers. They can get it too. XD

But seeing KK in here reminds me of something, I actually hit somebody with the Kagekaze again. Ironically, it wasnt on tape (nothin major).

Kagekaze = b.air -> b.air -> b.air -> b.air -> b.air -> etc. for a SD Kill. Named it after Kage after I did it to him at TGMTSBCO. Greatest idea i've had in like, the past 2 years. A doc suicide KO.

 

[Gea]

Done that a few times. Its too good and people just sort of stare at you in stunned silence. Also GOOD **** HMW. <3

 

[Vulcan55]

What is the point?

I honestly can't think of a good reason to use that unless you were way ahead, and you are playing a noob.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

the same reason that falcos suicide dair/kirbicides...

i dont see how you cant think of a good reason to do that.

 

[Dogysamich]

What is the point?

I honestly can't think of a good reason to use that unless you were way ahead, and you are playing a noob.

Because if you are in a position to where you can take an opponent's stock guarenteed with absolutely no penalty, why would you give them any possibility to come back?

If I have a you have a 4-1 lead and you have me off the stage and have landed 1 bair, why stop and grab the ledge and give me a chance to come back? Why not just go ahead and kill me now and take out any chance I have at staging a come back? Is a 4 stock win THAT important to you?

 

[Vulcan55]

It just seems that you could do it just as easy, but without dying.

 

[Dogysamich]

the point of it is to shut out any possiblity whatsoever of coming back. if you give somebody the chance to recover, you give them the chance to win.

I've seen enough 1-to-4 stock comebacks because of this to know it happens.

 

[doublejoint]

so HMW got 9th at a Huge 115+ tourney on west coast, beating out people like the amazing FORWARD; Dogy ****ing won a GA tourney beating georgia notables like fullmetal, sleepy k, dashdancedan, and GAwes.

he beat forward? (and still placed lower)?

craaap

 

[St. Viers]

Also, if you are at an insanely high percent, and they are at a low percent, on the same stock, I'd do it as well.

It's something I never remember to do when actually playing, but use on comps all the time.

 

[Dogysamich]

Aight.

So in an attempt to not hit "Bum Tier", and because I said I would like, 7 years ago; I think im going to finally get off my *** and do some generic *** matchup guide. (I dunno, lurking in other forums and seeing everybody talk about it kinda motivated me to do it)

My goal is to do 3/5 characters a day, so as long as I dont slack off which... is probably going to happen. So it'll be done in 5-9days minimum.

___

*random dogy talk*
Oh lawd.
I just had my 2nd day with the Netipot. **** was nowhere near as tragic as day 1. I wish I'da took a video of me trying to use the thing yesterday. That would have been some youtube gold.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Oh. I totally thought you were planning on doing three-fifths of a character a day...