Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[VGmasta]

I lose to Falco's.

Discuss.

Because Falco's d-air ***** Dr. Mario to death. And Falco controls Doc's movements overall.

I mean Falco's d-air is too hard to challenge, and it has enough hitstun to lead into to other attacks pretty much always. And Falco's defense is amazing. Falco's b-airs and up-tilts do alot more than one would think.

Doc's crouch-canceling gimmicks are useful tools in other matchups. But vs. Falco, crouch-canceling is pretty much deleted off the playlist of things that work in the matchup. Getting grabs is tough against a Falco that is always moving everywhere. Falco's jumps over Doc relatively easliy so it's hard to keep Falco grounded. And aggressive Falco's can be tough to get away from, but campy Falcos are the worst. There's not much you can get in on a Falco that likes to hang above Doc.

All you can really do is conserve your shield (lighshielding works wonders) in this matchup. Plus lightshielding can disrupt Falco's spacing. And against good Falco's you will have to mix up your options out of shield. Full hop pills out of shield between lasers keep Falco from approaching freely, but it won't stop him from approaching at all. Wavedashing back and forth out of shield are also good mixups. The cape is good but it's not that hard for Falco to bait and punish the cape (especially when Falco is closing distance).

The matchup is good for Falco, because as long as Falco stays a wavedashing distance from Dr Mario, Falco is pretty much winning. Doc's wavedash approaches are easily covered by Falco's b-airs and d-airs. The only other reall approach Doc has out of shield is to hop out. But hopping out of shield is really slow at high level play. So it is perfectly viable for Falco to do d-airs or lasers in place from that wavedash distance to cover all of Doc's options. If Doc decides to hop out of shield instead of rolling or wavedashing forward into Falco's d-air or shine, Falco still has time to outspace Doc before he lands from his hop. By the time Doc lands on the ground, it's a FREE approach for Falco. OR Falco could just re-space wavedashing distance away from Doc and then rinse and repeat. And you could full-hop pills all you want, but Falco can always maneuver around them.

I just watched Shroomed v HugS at WGF

how do every one of your pills hit

swear it's like magic

Not every pill actually hit HugS in that match. There were plenty of pills that Shroomed actually got punished for throwing. It seems like Samus' f-airs ate right through pills everytime.

 

[otg]

I wasn't really asking for a play by play of why Falco beats Doc, Im very well acquainted with that. I was more making an observation of myself as a player. I have never beaten a good Falco in my area (I **** the bad ones, but who cares?). Every set I have with them is 2-1 and all games are last stock last hit, but I can never pull it out. BenTZ, Chops, Stric, Yedi, it's all the same ****.

Still tho, despite that sucking it makes me really happy. Falco has been my worst matchup as Doc for awhile, but I take solace in the fact that all my sets are close. At least I'm making progress.

 

[ranmaru]

Damn Falco's movesssssssss gah it's like I can't even... NAIR and he'll hit me instead. D:

****. Like if I throw him up in the air... I get hit... Hmmm... I guess it's better for us to stay grounded against him?

His moves are good. ;-; i need to play my friend again to see what I messed up with. ****.

 

[VGmasta]

all games are last stock last hit, but I can never pull it out.

That's exactly what happens to me against all the Sheik players.

 

[Shroomed]

watch PP take a **** on me and tell me what i did wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVYLwkdxrQ0

and that was the first time i lost to hugs

he naired through a lot of pills which i will remember from now on

i also blame the loss on PP making me his *****
i was psychologically ruined LOL

JOHN JOHN JOHN

 

[otg]

I actually watched that earlier. The really big thing I noted about your set was that PP would launch you, bait your DJ and then **** the crap of you as you tried to come in him with a dair or something. You definitely seem mind ****ed, tho I doubt you've played a Falco of his caliber in tournament before. Are there any Falcos in NorCal?

 

[Shroomed]

zhu moved to socal shortly after i stopped being a total scrub

we have no other noteworthy falcos

which is probably why he's my worst matchup period

 

[otg]

Gotta start travelling homie. I dont think there is really any advice I could give you that you can't figure out for yourself, you just have to get out there and get more experience.

 

[Shroomed]

I'm too broke to travel sadly

 

[ChivalRuse]

Shroomed thinks Falcomist and PewPewU have scrubby Falcos.

Or did they just stop playing? I have no idea.

 

[Shroomed]

falcomist hasn't played in a while and he's been going mostly marth lately and so has pewpewu

 

[ChivalRuse]

Haven't you heard what M2K's been saying, though? Apparently Falco is a better character than Fox (and Marth for that matter).

But I guess not everyone has Falco talent.

 

[otg]

Wait, shroomed your set with hugs was only supposed to be Bo3 but you guys decided to make it Bo5?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Remember, on the WC they play best of 5 sets as soon as they're in the money.

Edit: Top 5 got paid. So technically L7 is far enough into the bracket to be playing for money.

 

[Shroomed]

we thought it was Bo3 and i won, but then they told us that it was for money so it turned into a Bo5 which i lost =(

i didn't know that rule was for any place that gets money, i thought it was jus for semis and above

 

[VGmasta]

I'm too broke to travel sadly

no, I'M too broke to travel

 

[otg]

Yeah I would be kinda tight if they were like "oh that set you won? well yeah, its not over"

I WANNA GET PAID SON.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

Step ya game up lol.

 

[Mew2King]

I think Doc is slightly underrated. Doc doesn't even do too bad vs falco, at least not campy ones. I know it is hard to grab him, but the reward is massive. You can CG him starting at 0 and do it to death. You can cape lasers so he cannot camp you. Eventually he will get mad and try to attack you which is good for you. I don't know too much more than I said though, I just remember having good success with Doc back in the early days. I used to play Zanguzen with Fox 5 years ago in my early Melee tourney days, and he'd 1 stock my fox out of 5 but then my doc would immediately 3 stock him next game. Just some random tidbits. I think Doc's slightly underrated and more or less about as good as Samus

 

[Shroomed]

i wont give up on doc yet then m2k

i know he's not what's holding me back, it's jus me not being a better player

 

[otg]

Man m2k, you flip flop on your tier lists a lot too. I thought you were always under the impression that Doc > Samus?

 

[Palpi]

Yo shroomed, big change of plans...im not going to pound anymore so i cant steal your food money in ping pong. Sorry <3

 

[DJ Nintendo]

Samus is definitely better than Doc.

 

[ranmaru]

I could slightly agree with DJ. Samus seems on the level of Doc. But I wouldn't really know until I play a good samus. (I played Hugs but it was only two matches, and I was just playing JUST TO PLAY HIm cuz I had like half an hour left lol)

So, DJ, come to my tourny and play me as samus : D

 

[BSeeD]

i wont give up on doc yet then m2k

i know he's not what's holding me back, it's jus me not being a better player

I must say we don't have that many Samus/Doc players in Europe (although Porc used to play Samus fkn well).

What I can say is that watching u play Doc is amazing dude.
I watch every match of yours, if there's something I'm sure of it's that u improve every day.
U really got what it takes to be one of the best dude, u got the smartness, the originality, the style, everything

And as a matter of a fact, I'm happy watching m2k saying that kind of stuff about Doc.
Back in the days, I remember myself thinking that no Doc could be good in the competitive scene.

That was a big mistake, u prove it already, and I'm pretty sure u'll prove sooner or later that Doc >= Samus

(please excuse me if my english is poor, I'm a stupid french anyway ^^)

 

[Rostigalen]

BSeeD, you should have went to Beast so that we could have played Doc dittos. Doc mains need to stick together, right?

 

[BSeeD]

Never said I was maining Doc

But I pretty much love this character

Couldn't make it to BEAST -_- although I wanted to. Where r u from? U should come to Marseille in March

 

[ChivalRuse]

Samus is more annoying than Doc, for sure.

 

[otg]

It really doesn't make a difference either way who's better, they both suck lol.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

yo shroomed, I just saw part of your set with lucien. You kept trying to uair oos his dsmash and hed just cc it and dsmash again. You should just try wding oos to grab/dsmash/anything, pretty sure its guaranteed if you do it properly.

 

[VGmasta]

yo shroomed, I just saw part of your set with lucien. You kept trying to uair oos his dsmash and hed just cc it and dsmash again. You should just try wding oos to grab/dsmash/anything, pretty sure its guaranteed if you do it properly.

Don't you guys realize how easy it is for Doc to just shorthop (SH) a f-air out of shield (OoS) if he reads a Sheik to d-smash?

 

[Rostigalen]

Never said I was maining Doc

But I pretty much love this character

Couldn't make it to BEAST -_- although I wanted to. Where r u from? U should come to Marseille in March

B'aaw. Oh well.

As hinted by my location, I'm from Stockholm, Sweden. I doubt I'll come to Marseille, haven't heard of any tourney there soon, which means that no other swedes will be going, and I simply don't have enough cash to make it there either way :/
Another time!

 

[SmashMac]

I'm not entirely sure I agree with whole Doc = Samus thing. Doc has his tricks about him but Samus is overall still better in my opinion. It could just be me, but every good Samus player I've matched was difficult for me. If I'm not mistaken, Doc has stayed at 9th even on the most recent tier-list that just came out. I'm content with that placement because it sounds about right to me based off my personal experiences with Doc. The character definitely has the potential to spank any other characters in the game. However, that's solely dependent on the player's performance and their abilities as a gamer that determine that.

 

[otg]

If doc is 9th, then samus is below him. Unless you consider Samus and Doc to be better then Icies or Falcon or some other character above them.

 

[Rostigalen]

What
the
@$$

I read on the Pound V topic that Dogy dropped out of the Pound V car he had a spot in. Dogy, get your butt to Pound and commentate/**** as Doc.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

What
the
@$$

I read on the Pound V topic that Dogy dropped out of the Pound V car he had a spot in. Dogy, get your butt to Pound and commentate/**** as Doc.

This. What the hell, Dogy. Seriously.

Smooth Criminal

 

[otg]

I 4 stocked Chops in a set tonight. I officially take back everything I've said about Doc vs. Falco being terrible.


.... sorta

 

[#HBC | Mac]

gawddamn

does that mean I have the best... falco?!?

 

[otg]

Your's is definitely better then his atm.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yedi Falco is serious business.