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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Cutie Gwen

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PAC-Man: (has his design based off of PAC-Man World and Mario Kart Arcade GP)
Street Fighter's spirit roster: (has Street Fighter Alpha Chun-Li, Dan Hibiki, Sakura Kasugano, Gen (in his SF Alpha appearance), Karin Kanzuki, Cody, Yun & Yang, Charlie Nash, Ibuki, and Juri)
Mega Man's spirit roster: (has at least ONE CHARACTER FROM EVERY SERIES)
"Only classics" theory is looking like purple theory right now.
View attachment 329986
It was never even framed as a theory, just an observation that Smash typically cares more about oldschool stuff, Smash Puppy simply said they feel Bomberman would have the same treatment, this rebuttal of yours isn't even good because Pup already acknowledged your counterarguments before you even read their post lmao
 

The Rhythm Theif

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It was never even framed as a theory, just an observation that Smash typically cares more about oldschool stuff, Smash Puppy simply said they feel Bomberman would have the same treatment, this rebuttal of yours isn't even good because Pup already acknowledged your counterarguments before you even read their post lmao
I read the post, I just felt like pointing it out. No need to be a pain in my neck, OK?
 

to be forgotten

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I'd argue it can even be a good thing, in some ways.
Part of the only reason these character reveals are 'so out of left field,' is because the actual speculation seen is pretty.... slow minded.
"Oh my god, no one expected _____ to get in." Well, actually- many people did; the general consensus just used poor logic, ruling out characters for arbitrary reasons, finding patterns that don't exist, and ignoring otherwise psychological reasoning; all this in the name of making sense of the roster in an individual's ability to reason the roster to themselves.

Speculation seen is actually very acute- transient, reactive, impulsive, and short-sighted.
Pretty much. It's why it always comes off kind of silly from the outside looking in whenever there's a new reveal and the Smash speculation gang on just about every board or social media site gets blown away by the pick. It's not the worst thing that Smash fans don't know everything about every series but it does get kinda goofy when they're so wrapped up in their own self-imposed mindgames that they can't even imagine that a character (that they may have already ruled out because PATTERNS) had a huge fanbase that just wasn't bothering to make themselves known in their own little world. It's happened before, and it'll happen again and again.
 

pupNapoleon

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Frogger is like Duck Hunt: Unquestionably impactful, but not something most people would look at and go "yeah, I want that in Super Smash Bros." Either that, or the people that remember it fondly aren't really a part of the core fanbase.
Which is a shame. The way I envision Frogger, is very Looney Tunes and evasive. For one attack, he would jump on another character's head- and as a giant truck comes for him, he hops off, making that truck hit only the character he had prior landed upon. For another, He hops across the teeth of crocodiles- up to three. As he makes his way across, it leaves three crocodiles behind him who are about to Snap (either by time or trigger) on anyone who crosses their path.

Evasion and jump!
 

Dinoman96

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In regards to Lara, I dunno, maybe it's just because she's a Square-Enix character and we already have one this pass. Maybe it's just because Nintendo fans don't really have a strong connection to her (like what with Kazuya/Tekken). Maybe it's because she's such a hugely western centric pick when the only two western non-Nintendo owned characters in Smash are the the one that used to be a Nintendo owned character and the one that's from the best selling game of all time.
 

pupNapoleon

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Pretty much. It's why it always comes off kind of silly from the outside looking in whenever there's a new reveal and the Smash speculation gang on just about every board or social media site gets blown away by the pick. It's not the worst thing that Smash fans don't know everything about every series but it does get kinda goofy when they're so wrapped up in their own self-imposed mindgames that they can't even imagine that a character (that they may have already ruled out because PATTERNS) had a huge fanbase that just wasn't bothering to make themselves known in their own little world. It's happened before, and it'll happen again and again.
I'd go as far as to say- it has happened with every character.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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...Smash Puppy simply said they feel Bomberman would have the same treatment...
I'm going to springboard off of this and say that I hope they don't do that because the Bomberman 64 styled games have a ton of neat ideas that could either be used in his moveset, or just for flavor on the stage. And of course, there's probably a ton of music that they could bring (granted, the original Bomberman would likely not have enough for a good tracklist, but that wouldn't stop them from just using that game and Bomberman R for the music, or just sticking it in the "other" category).

Also a classic Bomberman stage would likely be a disaster but we all know they're gonna try it anyway.
 

pupNapoleon

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It was never even framed as a theory, just an observation that Smash typically cares more about oldschool stuff, Smash Puppy simply said they feel Bomberman would have the same treatment, this rebuttal of yours isn't even good because Pup already acknowledged your counterarguments before you even read their post lmao
I absolutely thought you had me blocked (ha). Nice to know.
 

WeirdChillFever

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I think there‘s a fair bit of revisionism going around here. Earlier it was claimed that Byleth was seen as a ridiculous choice when in my memory he was on everyone’s radar as a weirdly likely worst case scenario and now people are somehow pretending that Aegis was not on everyone’s predictions and that Steve was a left field pick when he was just on the backburner.

Do we get surprises in Smash? Absolutely, and some if most of these surprises we definitely could’ve seen coming, but the notion that Smash speculation is cursed to be always wrong kinda rubs me the wrong way.
 

pupNapoleon

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I'm going to springboard off of this and say that I hope they don't do that because the Bomberman 64 styled games have a ton of neat ideas that could either be used in his moveset, or just for flavor on the stage. And of course, there's probably a ton of music that they could bring (granted, the original Bomberman would likely not have enough for a good tracklist, but that wouldn't stop them from just using that game and Bomberman R for the music, or just sticking it in the "other" category).

Also a classic Bomberman stage would likely be a disaster but we all know they're gonna try it anyway.
How could they do a classic Bomberman stage, that feels like a classic Bomberman stage, and make it 3D?
 

Idon

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As a big Mega Man series fan as a whole, the non-classic Mega Man representation isn't particularly ideal, at least in terms of music, which I think, is the one that matters the most:
Series:Songs:
Mega ManMany original and remixed songs
Mega Man X1 remixed song and 1 original song
Mega Man Zero/ZX1 unremixed song (which is in and of itself a remix of an X song)
Mega Man LegendsNo songs
Mega Man Battle NetworkNo songs
Mega Man Star Force1 unremixed song

BUT it is soooo much better than some 3rd parties in terms of breadth.
I mean, look at say Final Fantasy which is just... Final Fantasy 7. And y'know what happened when they got another Final Fantasy character? The first unique addition to an already represented series in Smash EVER?
MORE FINAL FANTASY 7.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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I'm going to springboard off of this and say that I hope they don't do that because the Bomberman 64 styled games have a ton of neat ideas that could either be used in his moveset, or just for flavor on the stage. And of course, there's probably a ton of music that they could bring (granted, the original Bomberman would likely not have enough for a good tracklist, but that wouldn't stop them from just using that game and Bomberman R for the music, or just sticking it in the "other" category).

Also a classic Bomberman stage would likely be a disaster but we all know they're gonna try it anyway.
I asked earlier but I didn't really get an answer though it's probably because I worded it poorly, what does Bomberman really have beyond the classic stuff everyone knows, the gritty reboot and the 64 game?
 

Dinoman96

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Quite frankly it's a minor miracle we even got any additional Final Fantasy content at all, so for now I'll let it slide that we only got FF7 stuff.
 

chocolatejr9

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As a big Mega Man series fan as a whole, the non-classic Mega Man representation isn't particularly ideal, at least in terms of music, which I think, is the one that matters the most:
Series:Songs:
Mega Man ClassicMany original and remixed songs
Mega Man X1 remixed song and 1 original song
Mega Man Zero/ZX1 unremixed song (which is in and of itself a remix of an X song)
Mega Man LegendsNo songs
Mega Man Battle NetworkNo songs
Mega Man Star Force1 unremixed song

BUT it is soooo much better than some 3rd parties in terms of breadth.
I mean, look at say Final Fantasy which is just... Final Fantasy 7. And y'know what happened when they got another Final Fantasy character? The first unique addition to an already represented series in Smash EVER?
MORE FINAL FANTASY 7.
They could've at least given us the other FF protagonists...
 

Sucumbio

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... we've got PAC-Man and the Belmonts for the base game and Kazuya as well the Mii costumes...
p87c858ypj941.jpg


Namco

RE: Frogger....

ya know I had 140 atari games and Frogger wasn't one of them heh. I don't even think he's relevant anymore (not that it matters regarding inclusion in smash) he's kinda like Q-bert or pitfall Harry... Iconic? Certainly. They were popular in their day and by virtue of being some of the first mascots of gaming hold a special place in our memories....
 

subterrestrial

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I think there‘s a fair bit of revisionism going around here. Earlier it was claimed that Byleth was seen as a ridiculous choice when in my memory he was on everyone’s radar as a weirdly likely worst case scenario and now people are somehow pretending that Aegis was not on everyone’s predictions and that Steve was a left field pick when he was just on the backburner.

Do we get surprises in Smash? Absolutely, and some if most of these surprises we definitely could’ve seen coming, but the notion that Smash speculation is cursed to be always wrong kinda rubs me the wrong way.
Yes there’s ALOT of revisionist history in the smash community, and it’s solely to justify the narrative that the ENTIRE community is always wrong in their predictions. it’s kinda weird imo bc smash reveals aren’t that difficult to predict if u pay attention:

for example the majority of ult newcomers were ballot picks, or sm4sh assist trophies. plus they literally told us chrom would be playable in the next installment

byleth and aegis were extremely obvious inclusions, same goes for an arms char lol everyone expected springman to be base roster. A few people even predicted joker idk how tho

Lmao king boo is just another extremely obvious inclusion, but everyone is gonna say how “unexpected and unpredictable” it was right after he’s revealed
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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I asked earlier but I didn't really get an answer though it's probably because I worded it poorly, what does Bomberman really have beyond the classic stuff everyone knows, the gritty reboot and the 64 game?
I had to refresh my memory with Wikipedia, but there are two Bomberman 64 games, Bomber Man Hero (which I think is just like Bomberman 64), a whole bunch of Bomberman Land titles (minigame collections it seems), and a whole lot of games that are classic Bomberman, but with some sort of bell or whistle.

I also could have sworn there was a nearly top down Bomberman title that had mechanics that were like Bomberman 64, but was still pretty different, but I don't know which game that is. I just remember that it had cute thingies called...I think Pommews.
 

GilTheGreat19

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Here's a fun question:
Do any of you think the final fighter might be a character that's been disregarded in speculation due to a preconceived notion that they're disconfirmed?

I ask because part of me wants to see 3BitSaurus 3BitSaurus signature keep expanding lol
I have no definitive guess, but I can see it
a RE character is my top guess for such a category

Leon or Jill would be great
 

subterrestrial

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WeirdChillFever

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Yes there’s ALOT of revisionist history in the smash community, and it’s solely to justify the narrative that the community is always wrong in their predictions. it’s kinda weird imo bc smash reveals aren’t that difficult to predict if u pay attention:

for example the majority of ult newcomers were ballot picks, or sm4sh assist trophies. plus they literally told us chrom would be playable in the next installment

byleth and aegis were extremely obvious inclusions, same goes for an arms char lol everyone expected springman to be base roster

Lmao king boo is just another extremely obvious inclusion, but everyone is gonna say how “unexpected and unpredictable” it was right after he’s revealed
No see what you’re doing is exactly my point. Things are always obvious in hindsight, but in the muck of it where dozens of characters have merit it’s hard to achieve the single-handed focus that hindsight hecklers demand of the community. Everyone had merit upfront, but once the first dozen of meritful characters are deconfirmed, the one that made it have the merit they had rewritten to be the most obvious ever.

Take King Boo. Yeah, sure, Luigi’s Mansion is a big deal and it didn’t have a Spirit Event, but what if the ball rolls the other way and we get one of the other dozen Mario characters who are similarly iconic?

Captain Toad was a huge deal during the ballot era and is a character that continues to persist, and is the acumulation of years of Toad appearances. Why did we miss him?
Paper Mario had a barebones Spirit Event, while none of the partners made it in as Spirits and only has a stage as noteworthy content despite being requested, having a subseries under his belt and loads of potential? Why didn’t we see him coming?
Waluigi is the star of the show right now, but even then the community isn‘t exactly banking on an AT promotion out of all the possible characters. That said, when it happens the question will be brought up: Why didn’t we see him coming?
Toadette and Pauline have been rising stars in the series. If you notice the pattern they follow in the series, how are they not considered the next Rosalina? How did we miss that? It’s just history repeating itself!

Every character is obvious when it makes it in, after the cards are laid out and picked out of the deck of cards of even just its series, company or otherwise sub-grouping. Until then, forming a consensus on a not-too-big character group when there‘s thirteenhundred spirits alone? Not as obvious, predictable or easy as it seems.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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it wasn't just a joke, it was obviously also foreshadowing. Sakurai even explained why he chose robin over chrom on his famitsu column

Bro I don't know how I'm supposed to explain that you can't foreshadow something you don't even know you're going to make, the joke was that it wasn't Chrom, that's it. Hell, take a look at this

Sakurai: We don’t think about adding in post-release content from the beginning. We want to provide as much as we can with the base game.

Interviewer: But that means Awakening’s release schedule was pretty fortuitous.

Sakurai: Yes, that was the case. For example, if Awakening was released six months later, Robin may not have made it in, and if it was six months early, they might not have even been considered


You're trying to say Sakurai already knew he wanted to include a character that was made in 5 minutes to be a clone of a character who had yet to even become the mix of Marth and Ike like he envisioned?
 

Guynamednelson

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Here's a fun question:
Do any of you think the final fighter might be a character that's been disregarded in speculation due to a preconceived notion that they're disconfirmed?

I ask because part of me wants to see 3BitSaurus 3BitSaurus signature keep expanding lol
You already know.
 

subterrestrial

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No see what you’re doing is exactly my point. Things are always obvious in hindsight, but in the muck of it where dozens of characters have merit it’s hard to achieve the single-handed focus that hindsight hecklers demand of the community. Everyone had merit upfront, but once the first dozen of meritful characters are deconfirmed, the one that made it have the merit they had rewritten to be the most obvious ever.
bro its not just hindsight; people predict correctly sometimes is it that hard to believe? there's literally millions of brains speculating someone is bound to eventually figure it out

literally hundreds of people predicted aegis and byleth. people even predicted byleth specifically being the last character in fp1 due to their known precedent. it really isnt that difficult to connect the dots, but when someones does connect the dots ppl just call them wrong and forget about it...
 

Cutie Gwen

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bro its not just hindsight; people predict correctly sometimes is it that hard to believe? there's literally millions of brains speculating someone is bound to eventually figure it out

literally hundreds of people predicted aegis and byleth. people even predicted byleth specifically being the last character in fp1 due to their known precedent. it really isnt that difficult to connect the dots, but when someones does connect the dots ppl just call them wrong and forget about it...
Byleth was done as a joke for "Man wouldn't it be horrible to get more Fire Emblem?" With Edelgard being considered the most likely choice with the idea of Byleth using elements from all 3 Houseleaders being scoffed at. Rex was the one considered likely that people couldn't shut up about with the idea of Pythra without Rex being deemed too OoC to even consider for longer than a few seconds. Last I checked, having people shoot you down doesn't make you obvious
 

subterrestrial

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Byleth was done as a joke for "Man wouldn't it be horrible to get more Fire Emblem?" With Edelgard being considered the most likely choice with the idea of Byleth using elements from all 3 Houseleaders being scoffed at. Rex was the one considered likely that people couldn't shut up about with the idea of Pythra without Rex being deemed too OoC to even consider for longer than a few seconds. Last I checked, having people shoot you down doesn't make you obvious
people correctly predicted chrom due to the foreshadowing "nah it was just a joke"

people correctly predicted byleth due to promotion "nah it was just a joke"

lol like are u srs ? you're literally doing the thing I just described earlier, why is it that hard to admit that some people in the smash community predicted correctly? we all know rex would've been playable alongside pyra/mythra if it weren't for hardware limitations
 
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WeirdChillFever

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bro its not just hindsight; people predict correctly sometimes is it that hard to believe? there's literally millions of brains speculating someone is bound to eventually figure it out

literally hundreds of people predicted aegis and byleth. people even predicted byleth specifically being the last character in fp1 due to their known precedent. it really isnt that difficult to connect the dots, but when someones does connect the dots ppl just call them wrong and forget about it...
Yes, and those million minds all have different, equally viable evidence and ways to discern the next character. I personally figured that if clones were to return, Daisy would be first in line thanks to inane conspiracies, but I still wouldn’t bet on her when Paper Mario came off the heels of a new game and was popular and Captain Toad came out of a very succesful WiiU era as well. My point is that there’s many characters that would make sense in hindsight, but due to constraints only a few actually do live to see the day and these constrains are more related to “It’d make for shoddy and nihilistic speculation if everyone held everyone as equally possible”, especially when even someone as obiqutously in the back-of-the-mind as Steve was gets revisioned as someone seen as impossible or not predicted. It’s not a failure of the community that they don’t add the clause “well of course it could be anyone” at the end of each post just to be immune from hindsight hecklers.

Everyone is right. Many choices make sense and many characters do get their fans to pick up on what’s eventually revealed to be the smoking gun. There are many dots in play, and they can be connected in different ways, but due to the sheer volume of theories there are, there are many theories not picked up by the community at large for reasons beyond “mean smash community told them they were wrong”.

I feel we’re arguing two sides of the same coin and we’re both arguing from the position that there are many fanbases that pick up on cues. Only way we’re differing I feel is on the reason that most of thess fanbases’ theories don’t enjoy high popularity, which I feel is less about a stubbornness of the masses but rather about the capacity in discourse a monolith community can process in the mainstream.
 

Cutie Gwen

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people correctly predicted chrom due to the foreshadowing "nah it was just a joke"

people correctly predicted byleth due to promotion "nah it was just a joke"

lol like are u srs ? you're literally doing the thing I just described earlier, why is it that hard to admit that some people in the smash community predicted correctly? we all know rex would've been playable alongside pyra/mythra if it weren't for hardware limitations
The Chrom example is a literal joke, Sakurai did not deliberately put it in to tease what would come 4 years later but to joke about how he scrapped Chrom and everyone expected Chrom.

If you do it jokingly it's not genuine. There's a reason this meme exists
ebbc5af8a86c5a600f44b835e0981c3f~2.jpg



I've seen like 5 people predict Byleth and the idea of no Rex but Pythra. But that doesn't make it obvious. I predicted a Blue Shell item and a Chain Chomp AT in Smash 4, but that didn't make it obvious. If it were obvious, It wouldn't have been seen as a long shot by 99% of the community before it happened
 

Jondolio

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And Chrom, Robin, and Lucina. Thank goodness Fire Emblem got good again after fates and awakening. I'd trade all four of them for another Tellius duology character.
Don't care didn't ask plus you think King Boo will be the last character
I mean, Awakening got me into the series so I disagree that it was a bad game, but I do like the direction 3H took a lot more. Fates is just a horribly written mess.
 

Ivander

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I think there‘s a fair bit of revisionism going around here. Earlier it was claimed that Byleth was seen as a ridiculous choice when in my memory he was on everyone’s radar as a weirdly likely worst case scenario and now people are somehow pretending that Aegis was not on everyone’s predictions and that Steve was a left field pick when he was just on the backburner.

Do we get surprises in Smash? Absolutely, and some if most of these surprises we definitely could’ve seen coming, but the notion that Smash speculation is cursed to be always wrong kinda rubs me the wrong way.
Probably to some degree. What I remember was that Byleth or a 3 Houses character was on the prediction list. But it was for Fighters Pass 2 that more people were expecting a 3 Houses character, not the end of Fighters Pass 1. Meanwhile, Pyra and Mythra were absolutely expected after Min-Min. But most I saw were expecting them to be with Rex rather than by themselves because Xenoblade 2 gameplay. And as we found out during their presentation, Rex was planned, but they took him out to just have Pyra & Mythra by themselves because the Ice Climbers' gameplay was hard enough to do as is.

Otherwise, most of the others that weren't leaked(Hero, Terry and to some extent, Banjo) or told ahead of time(ARMS) were not expected. Nobody predicted Joker, Steve(not to a predictable extent) and Sephiroth. Banjo was leaked, but it was more a "I'll see what happens" since it was basically taking someone's word for it.
And as I said, a 3 Houses character was predicted, but as far as I remember, people were expecting them for FP2 then FP1, so to an extent, nobody saw them coming earlier. And nobody really predicted Kazuya coming because of the Heihachi costume coming out with Min-Min's content and people thinking Tekken had no chance after the costume.
 

WeirdChillFever

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Well I guess I know who to DM when Toadette makes it in and you, stubborn and short-sighted Smash community, have never picked up on her slow but steady rise in the Mario canon that could logically only have resulted on her being added as the final character.
 

N3ON

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bro its not just hindsight; people predict correctly sometimes is it that hard to believe? there's literally millions of brains speculating someone is bound to eventually figure it out

literally hundreds of people predicted aegis and byleth. people even predicted byleth specifically being the last character in fp1 due to their known precedent. it really isnt that difficult to connect the dots, but when someones does connect the dots ppl just call them wrong and forget about it...
Wat

Of XC2 characters, people were first and foremost predicting Rex. And with him Pyra, but Pyra/Mythra, sans Rex? No.

And Byleth had some people predicting them... generally with less enthusiasm than those who were predicting Edelgard, and the vast majority didn't believe they'd round out FP1 because on the back of four third-parties, people were hard leaning into believing the entire first pass would continue that trend. Patterns and goldfish memory and all.

people correctly predicted chrom due to the foreshadowing "nah it was just a joke"

people correctly predicted byleth due to promotion "nah it was just a joke"

lol like are u srs ? you're literally doing the thing I just described earlier, why is it that hard to admit that some people in the smash community predicted correctly? we all know rex would've been playable alongside pyra/mythra if it weren't for hardware limitations
It wasn't foreshadowing hun, the Ultimate roster wasn't being made in 2013 or 2014 or whenever they cobbled the Robin/Lucina trailer together. Not the least of which is because Chrom is based mostly on a character that wasn't even in Smash 4 at that point.

If anything, Chrom seems like a late addition to Ultimate, judging by his repurposed model and the fact that they didn't even bother changing Robin's FS.
 
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