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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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Laniv

Laniv

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The Stoopid Unikorn said:
It should also be pointed out that pretty much all recurring LM characters are already Spirits, so there's less of a need to make a LM3 Spirit Event.

Sure, they had enough for one (Gooigi, Polterkitty, Hellen Gravely, etc.), but skipping out on it didn't matter much because you got your E. Gadds andyour King Boos and your Poltergusts already. It's even got ghost enemies and Polterpup, iirc. So the amount of LM representation seems fine enough.

This is unlike games like New Horizons (who replaced and removed a lot of legacy NPCs), Origami King (series with a rotating cast, with the only constant being Mario Bros., Peach, Bowser and Toads) or Pokemon Gen 8 (#Dexit) who needed to be represented for the series to feel properly represented.
Click to expand...
To be fair, we did get a Mario Golf event a couple weeks ago.
 
Eldrake

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XorahnGaia said:
The thing about these "missing" spirit events is that every major Switch game that didn't get one got a shoutout by the official Japanese Smash Twitter account instead.

Here are some examples:
Here's the most recent one celebrating the release date of SS HD
And here are the ones for Yoshi's Crafted World and LM3:

Worth noting that FE: Three Houses didn't even get a shoutout tweet like these games when it came out.
Then again I couldn't find the tweet for Super Mario Maker 2, so maybe this point is invalid.

Either way, LM3 wasn't ignored by the Smash team, they just likely thought that a simple tweet combined with the content in the base game was enough for that game. So the absence of a Spirit event isn't as suspicious as some of you claim it to be.
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Now I don't buy too much into missing spirit events because there can be reasons that isn't about a character from the game being in Smash, but this does seem pretty damning to me.
 
Sigran101

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XorahnGaia said:
The thing about these "missing" spirit events is that every major Switch game that didn't get one got a shoutout by the official Japanese Smash Twitter account instead.

Here are some examples:
Here's the most recent one celebrating the release date of SS HD
And here are the ones for Yoshi's Crafted World and LM3:

Worth noting that FE: Three Houses didn't even get a shoutout tweet like these games when it came out.
Then again I couldn't find the tweet for Super Mario Maker 2, so maybe this point is invalid.

Either way, LM3 wasn't ignored by the Smash team, they just likely thought that a simple tweet combined with the content in the base game was enough for that game. So the absence of a Spirit event isn't as suspicious as some of you claim it to be.
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I'm not sure how this is evidence. They tweeted about it? Okay. I never said it was completely ignored, I said it didn't get a spirit event. It's still suspicious.
 
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Dinoman96

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SMAASH! Puppy said:
  • PAC-Man only uses arcade stuff.
  • Mega Man mostly just has stuff from the classic series.
  • Street Fighter only has a few Spirits, and a single move that isn't from Street Fighter II: Turbo
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The other Mega Man subseries have a decent amount of representation, though. The likes of X, EXE, Star Force, Legends, etc are represented through assist trophies, music, costumes, spirits and even in Mega Man's final smash. Obviously the Classic series has most of the lionshare in Smash but it's still something, more so than you can say for someone like Pac-Man.

I think a better example would be Banjo-Kazooie, whose content only majorly references the N64 duology in Smash. The only bone thrown at Nuts & Bolts is like, a single animation for Banjo's up taunt.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Sigran101 said:
I'm not sure how this is evidence. They tweeted about it? Okay. I never said it was completely ignored, I said it didn't get a spirit event. It's still suspicious.
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A factor doesn't have to be literally the same as another in order to be relevant to it. Xorahn showed that most, if not all first party titles that didn't get a Spirit event, got a tweet from the devs instead, with the exception of Fire Emblem: Three Houses. It's relevant because that means that Luigi's Mansion 3 isn't in the same position as Fire Emblem: Three Houses, which is what your theory is banking on.

IMO, it doesn't completely disprove your theory, since the only thing that could is an explicit disconfirmation, but it does cast a whole lot more doubt on its validity.
 
Hydreigonfan01

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Dinoman96 said:
I think a better example would be Banjo-Kazooie, whose content only majorly references the N64 duology in Smash. The only bone thrown at Nuts & Bolts is like, a single animation for Banjo's up taunt.
Click to expand...
That's for very good reason though, I'd rather they didn't have Nuts & Bolts referenced at all so I can forget that game existed. Hell, I'm pretty sure there's no Mega Man X7 referenced or Sonic 06 referenced outside of Sonic's victory theme.

****ty games don't get referenced in Smash.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Hydreigonfan01 said:
That's for very good reason though, I'd rather they didn't have Nuts & Bolts referenced at all so I can forget that game existed. Hell, I'm pretty sure there's no Mega Man X7 referenced or Sonic 06 referenced outside of Sonic's victory theme.

****ty games don't get referenced in Smash.
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Could have sworn 06 had His World too, but if bad games weren't allowed, then they ****ed up big time for not giving Samus a different model as it still uses her Other M design.


Also we wouldn't have insert character from game you don't like
 
Dinoman96

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Yeah it's kinda silly because Smash references plenty of games that were poorly received by fans like Other M, Star Fox Zero (hell pretty much every SF game after 64), Paper Mario Sticker Star and Color Splash, Sonic 06, etc
 
SMAASH! Puppy

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Hydreigonfan01 said:
Hell, I'm pretty sure there's no Mega Man X7 referenced or Sonic 06 referenced outside of Sonic's victory theme.

****ty games don't get referenced in Smash.
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Axl is a Spirit, and His World (Theme of Sonic the Hedgehog - 2006 E3 Version) is in the game. Depending on what you consider to be a terrible Sonic game, we also have stuff from:
  • Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)
  • Sonic R
  • Sonic Adventure
  • Sonic Adventure 2
  • Sonic Heroes
  • Sonic and the Secret Rings
  • Sonic and the Black Knight
  • Sonic Unleashed (though technically it's from Sonic Generations) EDIT EDIT: Actually I'm pretty sure there's a Werehog Spirit as well as the Rooftop Run remix.
  • Sonic Lost World
  • Sonic Forces
EDIT: This post is probably reads a bit meaner than it should. I apologize for that.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Cutie Gwen said:
You may as well name the entire franchise considering how Sonic is everyone's favourite punching bag on the internet
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I named every game with a song except Sonic the Hedgehog 2, Sonic the Hedgehog 3, and Sonic Mania. lol

EDIT: Also Sonic Colors.
 
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osby

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Hydreigonfan01 said:
That's for very good reason though, I'd rather they didn't have Nuts & Bolts referenced at all so I can forget that game existed. Hell, I'm pretty sure there's no Mega Man X7 referenced or Sonic 06 referenced outside of Sonic's victory theme.

****ty games don't get referenced in Smash.
Click to expand...
I don't see why not.

"****ty" is pretty subjective in the first place and rarely a game is 100% bad. Sonic 2006 has great music tracks, I personally think Samus's Other M suit looks cool, Corrin has pretty neat powers once you get past his writing in Fates, Ice Climbers, etc.

While it's true that Smash usually prioritizes popular games and tries to keep characters loyal to their more beloved version, there's no universal ban on bad games and I'm not totally convinced that there should.

Don't reply to this post with which games you don't like, I don't care.
 
Sigran101

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SMAASH! Puppy said:
A factor doesn't have to be literally the same as another in order to be relevant to it. Xorahn showed that most, if not all first party titles that didn't get a Spirit event, got a tweet from the devs instead, with the exception of Fire Emblem: Three Houses. It's relevant because that means that Luigi's Mansion 3 isn't in the same position as Fire Emblem: Three Houses, which is what your theory is banking on.

IMO, it doesn't completely disprove your theory, since the only thing that could is an explicit disconfirmation, but it does cast a whole lot more doubt on its validity.
Click to expand...
But not all of them did. And the idea that tweets have any impact on actual content in the game is baseless speculation. By that logic you could look at any metric outside of the game to find ways that Luigi's Mansion and Fire Emblem are not the same. The only thing that's been proven is that if a new first party game has a character coming as dlc, Nintendo will not do a spirit event and save them for the spirit board. This is what I argued for months regarding Byleth and it's exactly what happened.

Does this mean that any first party game that does not get a spirit event must get a character? Of course not. But there are so few of them that got skipped that with the precedence we have from Byleth it's suspicious when one of them is missing. And Luigi's Mansion 3 is the only one that is missing without a reasonable explanation. There could very easily be something no one has thought of, or something Sakurai and the team know that hasn't been made public, that explains it perfectly. But I believe what we have is plenty to feel confident in predicting him.
 
C

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Dinoman96 said:
The other Mega Man subseries have a decent amount of representation, though. The likes of X, EXE, Star Force, Legends, etc are represented through assist trophies, music, costumes, spirits and even in Mega Man's final smash. Obviously the Classic series has most of the lionshare in Smash but it's still something, more so than you can say for someone like Pac-Man.

I think a better example would be Banjo-Kazooie, whose content only majorly references the N64 duology in Smash. The only bone thrown at Nuts & Bolts is like, a single animation for Banjo's up taunt.
Click to expand...
Actually, Banjo's house is based on it's Nuts and Bolts design, and I think the ending of his reveal trailer might be a reference to the game's loading screen (with the screen covered in Jiggies).

Although a L.O.G. Spirit would've been nice...
 
Cutie Gwen

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Sigran101 said:
But not all of them did. And the idea that tweets have any impact on actual content in the game is baseless speculation. By that logic you could look at any metric outside of the game to find ways that Luigi's Mansion and Fire Emblem are not the same. The only thing that's been proven is that if a new first party game has a character coming as dlc, Nintendo will not do a spirit event and save them for the spirit board. This is what I argued for months regarding Byleth and it's exactly what happened.

Does this mean that any first party game that does not get a spirit event must get a character? Of course not. But there are so few of them that got skipped that with the precedence we have from Byleth it's suspicious when one of them is missing. And Luigi's Mansion 3 is the only one that is missing without a reasonable explanation. There could very easily be something no one has thought of, or something Sakurai and the team know that hasn't been made public, that explains it perfectly. But I believe what we have is plenty to feel confident in predicting him.
Click to expand...
You're mixing up some stuff, the idea isn't "Well, we made a tweet so we can't do anything else", it's "We don't have anything else so we'll make a tweet". Also, as stated earlier, 3H didn't get any acknowledgement from Smash until Byleth was revealed whereas Luigi's Mansion 3 had the tweet which is the argument here
 
SMAASH! Puppy

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osby said:
...I personally think Samus's Other M suit looks cool...
Click to expand...
The only complaint I've seen about the new design was that it doesn't androgenic her; you can tell there's a girl in there, and that was one of the big reveal moments of the Metroid series...Which for some reason I'm only just now realizing is dumb because she's always had an hourglass figure.

Also it's been 35 years. Samus's gender is common knowledge by this point. That and we live in an age where that's no longer a mind-blowing fact in general, but ya'know.

chocolatejr9 said:
Actually, Banjo's house is based on it's Nuts and Bolts design...
Click to expand...
I don't think that's true. Their Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts n' Bolts design is super blocky, and Banjo & Kazooie don't really have any of that in Super Smash Bros. Beyond that there's not really any differences between them.
 
Evil Trapezium

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SMAASH! Puppy said:
Depending on what you consider to be a terrible Sonic game.
Click to expand...
SMAASH! Puppy said:
  • Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)
Click to expand...
I am genuinely curious as to why people could possibly consider this a terrible game. I mean I can get games like Sonic Adventure because it can be buggy sometimes and you have Amy and Big stories, Sonic Adventure 2 where you're forced to play the play styles you don't like and Sonic Heroes where it tried something new that isn't for everyone.

But this? I can only believe that people consider the classic 1991 Sonic a terrible game out of spite from the Classic fan base.
 
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Cutie Gwen

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Evil Trapezium said:
I am generally curious as to why people could possibly consider this a terrible game. I mean I can get games like Sonic Adventure because it can be buggy sometimes and you have Amy and Big stories, Sonic Adventure 2 where you're forced to play the play styles you don't like and Sonic Heroes where it tried something new that isn't for everyone.

But this? I can only believe that people consider the classic 1991 Sonic a terrible game out of spite from the Classic fan base.
Click to expand...
Probably because the franchise hadn't yet formed it's identity and was still in a growing phase, like, you had the nasty spike glitch absent in every other game, 3 act zones, lots of slow platforming instead of the high speed spectacle the game sold itself on, lack of a Spindash, hell, there was a limit to how fast Sonic could go if he didn't curl into a ball. The sequels are just so good that it makes the original look kinda bad
 
Dinoman96

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SMAASH! Puppy said:
I don't think that's true. Their Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts n' Bolts design is super blocky, and Banjo & Kazooie don't really have any of that in Super Smash Bros. Beyond that there's not really any differences between them.
Click to expand...
He's talking about their house on Spiral Mountain, son.

And it's true, in Smash it's essentially a fixed up version of its Nuts & Bolts appearance.


Actually Spiral Mountain in general looks similar to how it did in N&B, just with obviously much more vibrancy to make it closer to the first game.

And you know when Mumbo appears on the stage, he rips his eyeballs out from his skull and starts juggling them around? That's actually based on an idle animation of his from N&B.

So there are a few N&B references in Smash, but for the most part they're very subtle and in the background. Nothing major like any moves, spirits or music taken from it.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

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Schnee117 said:
You left out Colours... which is now tainted by a really bad port despite being a great game anyway
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I forgot I didn't put it there. I haven't seen anyone trash the game itself over the port though, so from my perception people still like the game.

Evil Trapezium said:
I am genuinely curious as to why people could possibly consider this a terrible game. I mean I can get games like Sonic Adventure because it can be buggy sometimes and you have Amy and Big stories, Sonic Adventure 2 where you're forced to play the play styles you don't like and Sonic Heroes where it tried something new that isn't for everyone.

But this? I can only believe that people consider the classic 1991 Sonic a terrible game out of spite from the Classic fan base.
Click to expand...
Just to be clear, I myself wasn't ragging on any of the games in the series, I just know that basically the entire series gets crapped on by fans and haters alike.

As for why people would call the first game bad, it's because it's one of those first games where some things aren't designed in a way that works, like how in Mega Man, there's a required power up locked behind some Guts Blocks, which means you have to beat Guts Man first, or redo Elec Man's stage. In Sonic the Hedgehog (1991)'s case, it's that Green Hill Zone is really the only level designed with the core idea of gameplay in mind, and it hits you with a lot of waiting and precision platforming (which isn't something that Sonic is good at in those games) as soon as you hit Marble Zone (the second level...world?). It's why you hear some people say that Sonic was never good.
 
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subterrestrial

subterrestrial

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after reading the recent comments in here I rly doubt fp11 is actually king boo...

my money is now on egadd
 
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SKX31

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XorahnGaia said:
The thing about these "missing" spirit events is that every major Switch game that didn't get one got a shoutout by the official Japanese Smash Twitter account instead.
Click to expand...
Aaand that's more fuel for my "Nintendo really should have more departments interacting with customers / fans" opinion. In this case, if they had an official Smash Bros NA / EU twitter that translated these quite a lot more people would know what the Smash team aknowledges.

WeirdChillFever said:
I’m pretty sure Melee got its fair share of music tracks
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Thems FIYAAA words. :4pacman:


SMAASH! Puppy said:
The only complaint I've seen about the new design was that it doesn't androgenic her; you can tell there's a girl in there, and that was one of the big reveal moments of the Metroid series...Which for some reason I'm only just now realizing is dumb because she's always had an hourglass figure.

Also it's been 35 years. Samus's gender is common knowledge by this point. That and we live in an age where that's no longer a mind-blowing fact in general, but ya'know.
Click to expand...
IIRC Other M's design mainly garnered infamy due to association with the game at large. Specifically how :4samus: / :4zss: took most of their cues from those designs. I know, it's not a direct complaint about the design itself, but Smash 4 did come out at a time where Other M and Sticker Star were still very much in fresh memory and the hardcore Metroid / Paper Mario fanbases weren't (again, IIRC) keen on those choices.

Oh yeah, right, the high heels. Forgot initially about those. Yeah, those were the big sore spot in terms of the design.

Also, a bit of a complete sidenote and late on this:


Posting this partly since Zhuge noted in a related twitter thread:

While a niche dedicated console player base exists, a mainstream console gaming culture does not. This requires platform holders to start from 0 when it comes to introducing console games, educating users on how to play and dedicating resources to content and marketing.
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Which pretty much illustrates how Nintendo and other console manufacturers are building upon their expansion plans there and elsewhere. This mainly impacts Smash Bros down the road (assuming new mainstream console cultures form down the line), but still.
 
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SMAASH! Puppy

SMAASH! Puppy

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SKX31 said:
Thems FIYAAA words.
Click to expand...
sees acronym
"hmmmmmm."
...
"Them's Fightin' In Ya'll's Absolutely American Alley words."
/nod

SKX31 said:
Oh yeah, right, the high heels. Forgot initially about those. Yeah, those were the big sore spot in terms of the design...
Click to expand...
Yeah, I was only talking about the Power Suit. I do remember some discourse about Zero Suit Samus's Jet Heels in Super Smash Bros., though I only really saw Gaijin Goomba's reaction to it.
 
Þe 1 → Way

Þe 1 → Way

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Has this been brought up yet?
No MVC2 likely because of Emulation difficulties. Its a good sign for Capcom and Disneys relationship though. Now if only they’d port these to console…
 
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Laniv

Laniv

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Sigran101 said:
But not all of them did. And the idea that tweets have any impact on actual content in the game is baseless speculation. By that logic you could look at any metric outside of the game to find ways that Luigi's Mansion and Fire Emblem are not the same. The only thing that's been proven is that if a new first party game has a character coming as dlc, Nintendo will not do a spirit event and save them for the spirit board. This is what I argued for months regarding Byleth and it's exactly what happened.

Does this mean that any first party game that does not get a spirit event must get a character? Of course not. But there are so few of them that got skipped that with the precedence we have from Byleth it's suspicious when one of them is missing. And Luigi's Mansion 3 is the only one that is missing without a reasonable explanation. There could very easily be something no one has thought of, or something Sakurai and the team know that hasn't been made public, that explains it perfectly. But I believe what we have is plenty to feel confident in predicting him.
Click to expand...
I will say, I did some searching, and there's still no tweet about Super Mario Maker 2, so it still doesn't have any sort of acknowledgement.
 
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