Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Sucumbio]

I was legit scared during the king boo fight. He'd be cool in smash. His final smash would be legendary.

 

[DarkFalcon]

King Boo? Nah.

I prefer his more awkward cousin. King Boom Boo.

 

[Sigran101]

Luigi's Mansion 3 already has playable representation FFS. For the billionth time, Luigi uses the new Polergust model in Ultimate.

So why did they skip the spirit event then?

 

[JOJONumber691]

The fact that Gooigi wasn’t a Color for Luigi in Ultimate still confuses me to this day lol.

 

[Theguy123]

Next question why are there not bigger SSBU fan-bases for the three below characters?

Ahri ( League of Legends ) via Riot Games & Tencent

Master Chief ( Halo ) via 343 Industries & Microsoft

Phantasy Star Online..___Rep via Sega



I see why thanks.

no one likes EA so no one ever expects a LOL rep which is why the fanbase is probably not that big

no one ever expects master chief because he’s a full Microsoft rep and hasn’t had a game on a Nintendo console which is why the fanbase isn’t as big or vocal for smash

and phantasy stars population in the west is really low due to the series just not being popular over in the west which is probably why Phantasy star doesn’t have a bigger fanbase.

 

[Sucumbio]

King Boo? Nah.

I prefer his more awkward cousin. King Boom Boo.

Isn't he a sonic character? I must profess ignorance never played a game with him in it but that boss battle was a nail biter ^^;

 

[Sigran101]

LM3 wasn't the only game to miss a spirit event TBH. Mario Maker 2 and Yoshi's Crafted World also lacked one. Whilst the former isn't really based on characters as much, considering they literally had a Labo spirit event, I don't think the lack of characters was an issue for MM2. As for the latter, whilst it is true Crafted World got represented via a skin, you could also argue LM3 got represented with the updated poltergust and grab for Luigi.

With all this in mind, it just seems they had to miss a few games out for spirit events, which isn't exactly surprising since the first spirit event we got was in September 2019 and 2019 in general was packed with new releases anyway.

Now that I think about it, I guess you could argue that MM2 and Yoshi's CF released before September meaning they were kinda old news but since Astral Chain, Ring Fit etc etc all waited like 3 months for a spirit event, I don't see why they couldn't have done the same for MM2 even if it existed beforehand. They likely just had to cut some games that could have warranted representation and LM3 was one of them. Doesn't have to equate to playable King Boo

Yoshi's crafted world has a spirit in base, Luigi's mansion 3 doesn't. What does Mario Maker 2 have that couldn't have been in base? Luigi's mansion 3 is the only one that doesn't make sense.

 

[DarkFalcon]

Isn't he a sonic character? I must profess ignorance never played a game with him in it but that boss battle was a nail biter ^^;

Yep. Sonic Adventure 2. As a kid he scared the crap out of me. Design is unsettling with the eyes and mouth. The laughs and noises it made were freaky too. Just the way it moved was unnatural too.

 

[pupNapoleon]

This is exactly what people said about Byleth (minus the liking him part)

I was actually mostly talking about spirits meaning something is disconfirmed.
But there is also a difference in a character coming out a couple of months after an event would happen, and two years later.

Regardless, 'people say' is an argument that would work more against believing the masses, than for the masses. Case in point- every DLC character.

Or, some more relevant examples that actually do make less sense from any POV:

• Chrom being in Robin's final smash
• the whole Toon Link bit

 

[TheCJBrine]

I’d love King Boo, but I don’t think he’s very likely, unfortunately. The lack of an LM3 spirit event could really just be because Luigi and King Boo are already represented, even if it may be a bit weird to not add spirits for the new, also important characters like Helen Gravely.

 

[Theguy123]

i see all this king boo talk and all I’m gonna say is they left Luigi out of the mario vs bowser art in the heroes vs villains trailers for banjo and k rool but they were happy to give us a 3 minute speech about how Luigi was the official number 2 and that he had been alive as long as Mario when ultimate came out. That’s kinda sus if you ask me

add that to the missing Lm3 spirit event. I think king boo has a better chance than people are willing to admit. Who knows if it’ll happen though. Only time will tell

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

To the delight of Luigi's Mansion fans King Boo is announced as the last fighter.








To the undelight of Luigi's Mansion fans, it's this one:

 

[Sigran101]

I was actually mostly talking about spirits meaning something is disconfirmed.
But there is also a difference in a character coming out a couple of months after an event would happen, and two years later.

Regardless, 'people say' is an argument that would work more against believing the masses, than for the masses. Case in point- every DLC character.

Or, some more relevant examples that actually do make less sense from any POV:

• Chrom being in Robin's final smash
• the whole Toon Link bit

How is spirits meaning anything "deconfirmed"? If anything it was confirmed by Byleth? And how does the time matter? Luigi's Mansion 3 still came out after the second pass was finalized, so if they were planning a character for it they would have held off the spirit event. What other explanation makes sense?

I’d love King Boo, but I don’t think he’s very likely, unfortunately. The lack of an LM3 spirit event could really just be because Luigi and King Boo are already represented, even if it may be a bit weird to not add spirits for the new, also important characters like Helen Gravely.

Yet we got spirits from Bowsers fury, Oragami King, New Horizons, and many more. There's dozens of new characters in Luigi's Mansion 3, plenty to fill a spirit event. Why is it the only notable new content with no spirits in the game?

 

[SneakyLink]

To the delight of Luigi's Mansion fans King Boo is announced as the last fighter.


To the undelight of Luigi's Mansion fans, it's this one:

So wait... to damage him you have to spray water to spin a slot machine to hopefully roll fruit, throw a pepper at him, then throw another fruit at him.

How would that translate to Smash? Also what about the other items the slots can land on?

 

[Laniv]

To the delight of Luigi's Mansion fans King Boo is announced as the last fighter.








To the undelight of Luigi's Mansion fans, it's this one:

As long as it isn't the bland Boo with a crown design, I'm game.

 

[DarkFalcon]

I'm pretty good on Mario franchise representation. Of course since it's Mario it would be dumb to say it won't get anything else. Though it'd be a snoozer for me personally like Pokémon getting another character. Though Ashley technically counts as Mario I guess, and there'd be a few Pokémon I'd be alright with but it isn't happening lol.

I would be cool with Metroid getting another, but it'd clearly be a promotional rep which does irk people. DK I'd be ok with too though I'd prefer more wacky kongs over Dixie.

 

[Theguy123]

To the delight of Luigi's Mansion fans King Boo is announced as the last fighter.








To the undelight of Luigi's Mansion fans, it's this one:

keep this abomination away from me and the plain old design.

 

[MasterCheef]

no one likes EA so no one ever expects a LOL rep which is why the fanbase is probably not that big

League of Legends is made by Riot Games who is owned by Tencent. EA has nothing to do with LoL

 

[Theguy123]

League of Legends is made by Riot Games who is owned by Tencent. EA has nothing to do with LoL

ohh. For some reason I’ve always thought EA owned it. Guess not. My back up statement then is are they western

 

[TheCJBrine]

Yet we got spirits from Bowsers fury, Oragami King, New Horizons, and many more. There's dozens of new characters in Luigi's Mansion 3, plenty to fill a spirit event. Why is it the only notable new content with no spirits in the game?

I don’t know, Nintendo is weird.

Like Undertale, for example: Cuphead got a mii costume and spirits, but Undertale just got the Sans mii, prompting some people (including me tbh though not taking it seriously like 100% fact) to think “Frisk/Papyrus/whoever coming later?!”, but it could just be because they didn’t want to add spirits for whatever reason.

 

[pupNapoleon]

How is spirits meaning anything "deconfirmed"? If anything it was confirmed by Byleth? And how does the time matter? Luigi's Mansion 3 still came out after the second pass was finalized, so if they were planning a character for it they would have held off the spirit event. What other explanation makes sense?

I don't really understand the majority of this, but from what I do gather, I'll respond:
Spirits are promotion
No reason to hold off simple promotion for multiple years for a character to be added that much later. For all we know, we are closer to Luigi's Mansion 4 than we are to Luigi's Mansion 2.

Yet we got spirits from Bowsers fury, Oragami King, New Horizons, and many more. There's dozens of new characters in Luigi's Mansion 3, plenty to fill a spirit event. Why is it the only notable new content with no spirits in the game?

I don't have, nor need, an answer to this. It could just be for the same reason that so many other things make little sense in Smash. We have so few Donkey Kong characters, despite it being a series known far outside of the gaming sphere, ages old, and for a long time- the 4th top selling Nintendo franchise. Yet, we have three, and each new character was a decade apart. Perhaps 'Luigi's Mansion' is not a 'new world' to Sakurai, and he just didn't see it as such.

I think limiting the opinion to, "the only thing that makes sense is having a LM character," is not only an absurd dissonance to reality, but is a very limited mind. It is generally good to see multiple pathways to things which may not make sense.

I'd also like to point out, that while I'm not very aware of all the spirits added- I'm nearly positive there are some huge third party (limited or not) exclusives that did not get spirits.

 

[Trevenant]

Yoshi's crafted world has a spirit in base, Luigi's mansion 3 doesn't. What does Mario Maker 2 have that couldn't have been in base? Luigi's mansion 3 is the only one that doesn't make sense.

LM3 also had representation with the poltergust which is arguably way significant than anything Crafted World. That and Crafted World didn't get anything aside from the Crafted Yoshi fighter spirit, which as said, was not all they could do for CW. It just seems like they missed out on the stuff that was deemed unnecessary and LM3 was one of those.

 

[Sigran101]

I don’t know, Nintendo is weird.

Like Undertale, for example: Cuphead got a mii costume and spirits, but Undertale just got the Sans mii, prompting some people (including me tbh though not taking it seriously like 100% fact) to think “Frisk/Papyrus/whoever coming later?!”, but it could just be because they didn’t want to add spirits for whatever reason.

Undertale is a third party franchise. No one claimed that every series that gets a mii costume will get an event, and clearly not every third party game will get one. I have no idea why everyone brings this up in a discussion specifically about 1st party spirit events This has nothing to do with my argument.

 

[Guynamednelson]

LM3 also had representation with the poltergust which is arguably way significant than anything Crafted World. That and Crafted World didn't get anything aside from the Crafted Yoshi fighter spirit, which as said, was not all they could do for CW.

It's not just that it's already represented, it's that LM3 is already promoted by Smash being the reason we knew it would exist in the first place. Because of that, I can see Nintendo/Sakurai thinking it's unnecessary to make a whole challenger pack to promote the game.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Undertale is a third party franchise. No one claimed that every series that gets a mii costume will get an event, and clearly not every third party game will get one. I have no idea why everyone brings this up in a discussion specifically about 1st party spirit events This has nothing to do with my argument.

I mean, it’s still a weird lack of spirits, especially considering Toby went to Sakurai’s house and he’s easy to work with it seems (not that this means a fighter from Undertale is coming, as cool as it’d be), so I don’t think it’s too different from this 1st-party spirits situation, especially one that’s technically represented already, but alright.

 

[Theguy123]

I don’t know, Nintendo is weird.

Like Undertale, for example: Cuphead got a mii costume and spirits, but Undertale just got the Sans mii, prompting some people (including me tbh though not taking it seriously like 100% fact) to think “Frisk/Papyrus/whoever coming later?!”, but it could just be because they didn’t want to add spirits for whatever reason.

that probably has more to do with the fact that both undertale and cuphead I believe are western. Western franchises have barely been getting spirit events. They probably just prioritised cuphead over undertale as the indie western franchise to get a spirit event

 

[Trevenant]

It's not just that it's already represented, it's that LM3 is already promoted by Smash being the reason we knew it would exist in the first place. Because of that, I can see Nintendo/Sakurai thinking it's unnecessary to make a whole challenger pack to promote the game.

Yeah I can see that. Why LM3 out of all games TBH? Just seems kind of bizarre especially considering that it probably would've happened by now. Byleth was a more controversial plug so it makes sense why they held him off till last so as to not make people want to buy the pass individually but King Boo doesn't strike me as controversial, even if he was included as a plug so waiting this long when they could have had him earlier on just doesn't seem likely, and at that point I'd imagine they'd just choose another character from Mario.

The entire basis of this just seems to be that just because of a missing spirit event when KB just seems bizarre in general. Would probably have been included by now, but it seems they just had to trim the fat as they couldn't include spirit events for every game, meaning LM3 and others had to miss out

 

[Sigran101]

I don't really understand the majority of this, but from what I do gather, I'll respond:
Spirits are promotion
No reason to hold off simple promotion for multiple years for a character to be added that much later. For all we know, we are closer to Luigi's Mansion 4 than we are to Luigi's Mansion 2.


I don't have, nor need, an answer to this. It could just be for the same reason that so many other things make little sense in Smash. We have so few Donkey Kong characters, despite it being a series known far outside of the gaming sphere, ages old, and for a long time- the 4th top selling Nintendo franchise. Yet, we have three, and each new character was a decade apart. Perhaps 'Luigi's Mansion' is not a 'new world' to Sakurai, and he just didn't see it as such.

I think limiting the opinion to, "the only thing that makes sense is having a LM character," is not only an absurd dissonance to reality, but is a very limited mind. It is generally good to see multiple pathways to things which may not make sense.

I'd also like to point out, that while I'm not very aware of all the spirits added- I'm nearly positive there are some huge third party (limited or not) exclusives that did not get spirits.

1.The reason to hold it off is that if they add the spirits in an event now, they won't have content for a spirit board later. That's literally the entire point.

2.The fact that you think Donkey Kong deserves more reps does not make the exclusion of LM3 when we have dozens and dozens of examples any less suspcious

3.Thanks for the insult, that was totally called for

4. I'm not talking about third parties. I'm talking about first parties.

Also I'm not going to respond to you again because you reminded me why I put you on ignore, but feel free to be a big man and get the final word, I just won't see it.

 

[TheCJBrine]

that probably has more to do with the fact that both undertale and cuphead I believe are western. Western franchises have barely been getting spirit events. They probably just prioritised cuphead over undertale as the indie western franchise to get a spirit event

That doesn’t sound quite right imo, I’m not sure they’d only choose one because “Western,” that doesn’t seem to make much sense especially in Undertale’s case and how Sans got in. Probably some other reason. We already had popular Western indie spirits in the basegame, and there’s been at least one or two other spirit events for series that are Western/made outside Japan I think.

 

[Sigran101]

I mean, it’s still a weird lack of spirits, especially considering Toby went to Sakurai’s house and he’s easy to work with it seems (not that this means a fighter from Undertale is coming, as cool as it’d be), so I don’t think it’s too different from this 1st-party spirits situation, especially one that’s technically represented already, but alright.

It's literally not a first party though. I agree an undertale event would have been cool, but third party events are never garunteed like first parties generally are.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The most reasonable reason (I have a way with words, I know) for Cuphead to have gotten Spirits where Undertale didn't was because Microsoft was vouching for it, while Nintendo went for Undertale content themselves, so it played out like:

Nintendo: "Hey Toby, can we have a Mii Costume and a song?"
Toby Fox: "Sure."
Microsoft: "Hey Nintendo, can you add a Cuphead Mii Costume, song, and some Spirits?"
Nintendo: "OK."

It's likely a "looks similar at the surface, but is absolutely not when you dig deeper" situation. Or it could have just been a strange decision. Who knows?

 

[TheCJBrine]

It's literally not a first party though. I agree an undertale event would have been cool, but third party events are never garunteed like first parties generally are.

Alright, it just seemed like it’d be about as easy as a 1st-party minus a bit extra cost.

Although I’m not sure 1st-parties have been guaranteed either (but I guess most have gotten events anyway), plus we do still have LM3’s major protagonist and antagonist already represented. I’m not saying King Boo can’t get in, I just don’t think he’s very likely, but I’d be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Sigran101]

Alright, it just seemed like it’d be about as easy as a 1st-party minus a bit extra cost.

Although I’m not sure 1st-parties have been guaranteed either (but I guess most have gotten events anyway), plus we do still have LM3’s major protagonist and antagonist already represented. I’m not saying King Boo can’t get in, I just don’t think he’s very likely, but I’d be pleasantly surprised.

So far the only first party releases that haven't gotten events are

1. Games with no new content- ie Wii/Wii u ports, Mario Maker 2

2. Games that already have spirits- ie Yoshi's crafted world

3. Games that got a character- FE Three Houses

4. Luigi's Mansion 3

After using this same argument for months that Byleth would get in, and seeing the same counter arguments as with King Boo, by some of the same people who used them against Byleth no less, I'm pretty confident it will happen.

If not? Oh well. I can handle being wrong about a video game, and a lot of the characters people are talking about interest me more than King Boo anyway. But I really think he's the most likely option at this point.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I still think that if we were going to get a Mario character, they would have been our third fighter of the Fighters Pass rather than our sixth. The only exception I can think of would be if they were Geno or Waluigi since capping off the Fighters Pass with a big fan favorite would be able to justify the opportunity cost of not having them at your big Mario anniversary extravaganza.


I suppose it is Nintendo we're talking about, so there's always potential for strange decisions, but it's still not something I'd be confident in predicting.

1. Games with no new content- ie Wii/Wii u ports, Mario Maker

You mean Super Mario Maker 2? That has a ton of new content.

 

[to be forgotten]

Next question why are there not bigger SSBU fan-bases for the three below characters?
Phantasy Star Online..___Rep via Sega

On paper, it's the perfect series to support right? PSO2 is so big in Japan it's one of the only series Nintendo has ever let have cross-platform cosmetics. You can cosplay as Link, complete with Master Sword, even on PlayStation. It's just hugely successful, millions of players, has been going since 1987, had released PS1 and 2 before America even saw FF1 or DQ1, and Sakurai's first semi-official interaction with the gaming industry was by submitting ideas for II. That should be HUGE, but...

1. As some other folks have mentioned, even if the series was popular before PSO2, a big part is probably that the game was JP-locked for so long even if there was a pretty big international community that played anyway. Like, if you played on Ship 2 at all it was safe to assume anyone there spoke English. So even if there was a large hardcore community that has been playing since 2012 just fine, the average western PSO fan has still been left out in the cold. Which leads me to...​

2. A lot of SEGA fans have been kinda bummed about how SEGA's treated them for like, the last decade or so? Longer? Simply put, if you weren't Sonic, you were baaaarely hanging in there. A lot of folks might have short-term memory for stuff like this, but y'know how everyone treats Yakuza like the greatest SEGA series ever that's super beloved now? In 2015 it was an outright MIRACLE that Yakuza 5 got localized. Like, dancing in the streets/collective sigh of relief type reactions from the then super niche Yakuza fan-crowds. They didn't even care it was digital only and "couldn't support" a physical release. Let's not even get into how SEGA treated Shining Force fans... It's a RECENT phenomenon that a lot of SEGA series are being treated well at all by SEGA themselves. Some fans, naturally, still feel pretty burned.​

3. Smash speculation ain't that an inviting community, if I'm completely honest. Thems the breaks. In spite of Phantasy Star and Smash being my absolute most played series by a huge margin and any of my PS fan friends also playing Smash and viceversa... none of us come to places like this. Polls? Forget about 'em. This is my fifth post here and some jerk already played down the idea I liked a thing and would like to see it in Smash as not important in spite of that being the entire reason Smash speculation is a thing. Screw that noise. If it ain't in the Smash Bubble already, it takes a huge amount of effort and, let's be honest, luck to get it in there. Average Smash speculators only even care about PS now because Matoi was in a fake leak and only a few good eggs are even bothering to learn anything about her or that there's at least two other important characters that are still verifiably beloved by fans after 3 decades.​

 

[Laniv]

So far the only first party releases that haven't gotten events are

1. Games with no new content- ie Wii/Wii u ports, Mario Maker

2. Games that already have spirits- ie Yoshi's crafted world

3. Games that got a character- FE Three Houses

4. Luigi's Mansion 3

After using this same argument for months that Byleth would get in, and seeing the same counter arguments as with King Boo, by some of the same people who used them against Byleth no less, I'm pretty confident it will happen.

If not? Oh well. I can handle being wrong about a video game, and a lot of the characters people are talking about interest me more than King Boo anyway. But I really think he's the most likely option at this point.

Where do the Famicom Detective Club remakes fit into this?

 

[Sigran101]

I still think that if we were going to get a Mario character, they would have been our third fighter of the Fighters Pass rather than our sixth. The only exception I can think of would be if they were Geno or Waluigi since capping off the Fighters Pass with a big fan favorite would be able to justify the opportunity cost of not having them at your big Mario anniversary extravaganza.


I suppose it is Nintendo we're talking about, so there's always potential for strange decisions, but it's still not something I'd be confident in predicting.


You mean Super Mario Maker 2? That has a ton of new content.

Yeah, my bad I meant 2. And no it doesn't. It's all stuff from Mario games that existed before Ultimate came out.

Edit: as far as timing, remember that the original plan was to end Ultimate with Byleth. If anything I would expect a low key ending rather than a megaton one.

 

[Trevenant]

I was just reading up on the discussion and were slopes actually in the MM stage before MM? Kinda surprised that hasn't become a meme.

 

[Sigran101]

Where do the Famicom Detective Club remakes fit into this?

1. Games with no new content. It's a remake with no new characters. If we got a sequel instead I'd have expected spirits.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah, my bad I meant 2. And no it didn't. It's all stuff from Mario games that existed before Ultimate came out.

That's not true. Even just looking at power ups, it's introduced the Koopa Troopa Car, Bullet Bill Mask, Red POW Box, and the Super Hammer (which, Builder Mario is in the game, though it's probably because of the first game rather than the second game's power up).

There are also new builder outfits for other characters.