Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[N3ON]

Yeah I'm not really sure what prompted the decision.

"That tiger man is too bland. Add Fox, a still pretty vanilla character, instead."

Sabre looked like Fox.

Miyamoto noticed Sabre looked like Fox.

Miyamoto said "this is Star Fox now".

The end.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Yeah I'm not really sure what prompted the decision.

"That tiger man is too bland. Add Fox, a still pretty vanilla character, instead."

Iirc the idea was to make sure MS couldn't use the last game Rare was making that was a Gamecube exclusive alongside a visual resemblance to Fox

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Iirc the idea was to make sure MS couldn't use the last game Rare was making that was a Gamecube exclusive alongside a visual resemblance to Fox

Ah that makes sense.

 

[Dinoman96]

By the sound of things, Miyamoto gave Rare the offer to use the Star Fox license for their game and they accepted it. I don't think it was forced onto them or anything.

tbh I don't really blame Rare for wanting to utilize the Star Fox IP because well...let's face it, Rare's most successful games under Nintendo weren't their original properties. It was their licensed stuff like DK and Goldeneye. Below is Rare's million sellers on Nintendo platforms.

(source: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ni...ardware-sales-data-from-1983-to-present.2725/)

Fun fact: As you can see above, Rare's most successful 3D platformer on N64 wasn't Banjo, it was...Donkey Kong 64.

Honestly had Dinosaur Planet come out at as originally intended, it'd just would of gone the way of games like Jet Force Gemini and Blast Corps, just a forgotten one-off Rare game whose only future is as Rare Replay fodder. Ironically turning Krystal into a Star Fox character actually kinda "saved" her, as she would go on to reappear in Assault and Command and even still makes regular cameos in Smash, being recently being promoted into an assist trophy in her original DP/Adventures appearance.

 

[N3ON]

Iirc the idea was to make sure MS couldn't use the last game Rare was making that was a Gamecube exclusive alongside a visual resemblance to Fox

That would be the big brain play, but I'm not sure how true it is considering Nintendo didn't stymie other games in development at that time like Grabbed by the Ghoulies and Kameo, and Rare simply repurposed Diddy Kong Pilot and Donkey Kong Coconut Crackers into Banjo Pilot and... uh... It's Mr. Pants, respectively after losing access to those characters.

 

[Dinoman96]

Here's a whole interview about all of this, actually.

Star Fox Adventures – 2002 Developer Interview - shmuplations.com

Digital Foundry’s side-by-side comparison of Star Fox Adventures with Forest of Illusion’s recently-dumped Dinosaur Planet N64 build; this build shows the game in a transitional state, with the original protagonist Sabre’s character model and certain voiced sections replaced with those of Fox...

shmuplations.com

See it turns out that Miyamoto and Imamura (the man who created Fox and the other Star Fox characters) were actually wanting to make a Star Fox game with on-foot combat for a long time, they even made a little prototype of this that didn't go anywhere. The whole concept ended up being merged with Dinosaur Planet.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

As a big Mega Man series fan as a whole, the non-classic Mega Man representation isn't particularly ideal, at least in terms of music, which I think, is the one that matters the most:

Series:	Songs:
Mega Man	Many original and remixed songs
Mega Man X	1 remixed song and 1 original song
Mega Man Zero/ZX	1 unremixed song (which is in and of itself a remix of an X song)
Mega Man Legends	No songs
Mega Man Battle Network	No songs
Mega Man Star Force	1 unremixed song

BUT it is soooo much better than some 3rd parties in terms of breadth.
I mean, look at say Final Fantasy which is just... Final Fantasy 7. And y'know what happened when they got another Final Fantasy character? The first unique addition to an already represented series in Smash EVER?
MORE FINAL FANTASY 7.

Granted, I can give Sephiroth a pass because he's one of - if not - THE greatest JRPG villain of all time, but we could've at least gotten Terra Branford in her Esper form, Locke, Setzer, Shadow, Amarant Coral, or even Kuja. KUJA!

"Was Tomb Raider even on a Nintendo console?"
looks it up
...
"It's on the Game Boy Color?!?"

Spoiler: I'm ded

I imagine the glitching at the bottom is due to emulation.

Guess that's going alongside the Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker Game Boy Color port as one of the craziest things that I didn't need to know but found out anyway.

****ty games don't get referenced in Smash.

Obviously dead joke is obvious.

 

[Sucumbio]

Star Fox Adventures was supposed to be a new IP until Nintendo decided to shove Star Fox characters into it.

Alas I chalk this up to Nintendo’s mistake which is sad because I love Nintendo but also because it had negative impacts.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Here's a whole interview about all of this, actually.

Star Fox Adventures – 2002 Developer Interview - shmuplations.com

Digital Foundry’s side-by-side comparison of Star Fox Adventures with Forest of Illusion’s recently-dumped Dinosaur Planet N64 build; this build shows the game in a transitional state, with the original protagonist Sabre’s character model and certain voiced sections replaced with those of Fox...

shmuplations.com

See it turns out that Miyamoto and Imamura (the man who created Fox and the other Star Fox characters) were actually wanting to make a Star Fox game with on-foot combat for a long time, they even made a little prototype of this that didn't go anywhere. The whole concept ended up being merged with Dinosaur Planet.

They gotta make hybrid shooter and on-ground game where Fox can do dash attacks, shoot his blaster, reflect projectiles and set himself on fire.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Alas I chalk this up to Nintendo’s mistake which is sad because I love Nintendo but also because it had negative impacts.

Eh honestly no.

Star Fox Adventures really did need the IP to carry it. It would have been released at a time where it wouldn't have succeeded (late N64) and the game is only... okay.

As an original IP, I'm fairly confident it would have floundered.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

While I admire the scope of SF Adventures, even in its final form, it's a Zelda clone that suffers a bit in comparison to the likes of something like Wind Waker. The Star Fox association at least gave it a novelty that it otherwise might have lacked.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

While I admire the scope of SF Adventures, even in its final form, it's a Zelda clone that suffers a bit in comparison to the likes of something like Wind Waker. The Star Fox association at least gave it a novelty that it otherwise might have lacked.

On top of that, the association with Star Fox made sure that all the good ideas from that game could be revisited again.

Things like Krystal, Tricky (well debatable for that one), Sauria itself all get major roles or references in later games.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Sabre looked like Fox.

Miyamoto noticed Sabre looked like Fox.

Miyamoto said "this is Star Fox now".

The end.

I couldn't help myself.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They gotta make hybrid shooter and on-ground game where Fox can...set himself on fire.

lol

I'd like to see it too. You could have a fun story where Fox crash lands on a planet, and you have to find a point where he can be rescued among other things. Though it probably isn't what Star Fox fans want since IIRC the time they did do out of vehicle segments, isn't fondly looked upon.

 

[N3ON]

Here's a whole interview about all of this, actually.

Star Fox Adventures – 2002 Developer Interview - shmuplations.com

Digital Foundry’s side-by-side comparison of Star Fox Adventures with Forest of Illusion’s recently-dumped Dinosaur Planet N64 build; this build shows the game in a transitional state, with the original protagonist Sabre’s character model and certain voiced sections replaced with those of Fox...

shmuplations.com

See it turns out that Miyamoto and Imamura (the man who created Fox and the other Star Fox characters) were actually wanting to make a Star Fox game with on-foot combat for a long time, they even made a little prototype of this that didn't go anywhere. The whole concept ended up being merged with Dinosaur Planet.

I refuse to believe Miyamoto ever wanted to make a Star Fox game that wasn't the same exact Star Fox game.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I refuse to believe Miyamoto ever wanted to make a Star Fox game that wasn't the same exact Star Fox game.

Well of course not the exact same!


It needs some controller gimmick shoved in it obviously.

 

[Laniv]

Well of course not the exact same!


It needs some controller gimmick shoved in it obviously.

Something something "the Arwing drifts to account for the joy con drift"

I worry that they may actually do that

 

[3BitSaurus]

Here's a fun question:
Do any of you think the final fighter might be a character that's been disregarded in speculation due to a preconceived notion that they're disconfirmed?

I ask because part of me wants to see 3BitSaurus signature keep expanding lol

C'mon, man, it barely even fits already. The site has begun to crop the last sentence as of Kazuya.

But seriously, I have some ideas, even if I don't think any of them are particularly likely:

• A character from Square, Namco or Microsoft, who already have reps in Volume 2
• An Assist Trophy promotion
• A non-promotional first party
• A Switch first party that "missed the boat", like RFA or Astral Chain
• A character more aligned with other fanbases, like a Sony or PC gaming rep

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Something something "the Arwing drifts to account for the joy con drift"

I worry that they may actually do that

Nah they'll just make you control the steering mechanisms on each wing separately using the Joy Con. Who needs a left stick when you have two gyroscopes?

 

[AlphaSSB]

Going back to Zero, the game doesn't need just a port, but more like a remake/remaster. The game was designed from the ground up with the Gamepad in mind, so you'll need to do much more than just fixing the controls. Some missions will need adjustments and bosses reworked. Of course you'd also need to add extra content like new missions and game modes. Maybe even multiplayer if the improved control scheme allows for it.

And on top of all of that you'd have to push this game's marketing hard. Zero doesn't have a great reputation, and trying to change that will be an uphill battle. But if Nintendo would let Platinum put in the effort to bring it to Switch, give them the freedom/funds to make improvements and add new content, and really push that the game is "fixed", I think it may be worth it.

Of course you could always take all that effort and just make a new Star Fox game altogether, but Zero Deluxe would still likely cost less to make.

 

[Sucumbio]

Eh honestly no.

Star Fox Adventures really did need the IP to carry it. It would have been released at a time where it wouldn't have succeeded (late N64) and the game is only... okay.

As an original IP, I'm fairly confident it would have floundered.

I hate late stage releases that get shafted like Eternal Darkness (yay spirits tho)!

But yeah I feel Nintendo suffered with the negative reviews for adventures and much like other m was a gut punch to many fans but it could have been different? I don't really know... Super Mario 2 was awesome and for me just as enjoyable as adventures and other m really so it's just... Nintendo being Nintendo.

 

[Will]

I mean, look at say Final Fantasy which is just... Final Fantasy 7. And y'know what happened when they got another Final Fantasy character? The first unique addition to an already represented series in Smash EVER?
MORE FINAL FANTASY 7.

It makes sense to me considering Final Fantasy 7 is what Cloud specifically represents for Smash Bros. Ultimate and no other Final Fantasy title, unlike Hero who takes bits and pieces (even if it's like 80% DQXI). At least this was according to in-game Spirits references and the website pre-Sephiroth.

 

[Dinoman96]

I refuse to believe Miyamoto ever wanted to make a Star Fox game that wasn't the same exact Star Fox game.

"Fun" fact

During the development for Star Fox Command, Dylan Cuthbert actually wanted to include traditional rail-shooter stages just like in the first few games...but Miyamoto said no.

The Making Of: Star Fox Command, Fox McCloud's Nintendo DS Test Flight

"Miyamoto wanted us to try out new ideas and see what happened"

www.nintendolife.com

"Miyamoto wanted us to try out new ideas and see what happened"

It’s tempting to ask why Miyamoto chose to adopt a slightly different play style for Star Fox Command, especially as Star Fox 2 had never been seen by the wider public and the past two titles had displeased some fans by straying too far from the original 'on-rails' formula. Cuthbert thinks that the promise of new hardware – hardware which would come to change the way we play – was one of the key reasons. "The ideas in Star Fox 2 seemed interesting to Miyamoto to apply to the Nintendo DS with its two screens. He explained early on that the Star Fox franchise wasn’t about repeating the same game in sequel after sequel, but was a vehicle for exploring ideas in 3D gaming. Just like the early experiments we did in Star Fox 2 with 3D platforming that eventually helped shape Super Mario 64, he wanted us to try out new ideas and see what happened."

"If we’d have had more time, I would have liked to add some 'standard' Star Fox levels with forward-scrolling, but at the time Miyamoto was adamant that we stick with free-range modes," says Cuthbert. "That was part of his 'Star Fox should explore new things' initial direction on the project.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

It was Slippy that got the spin-off with it so...
Unload the Toad

Sure thing.

Certainly this is the Toad you were talking about unloading, right?

 

[Idon]

It makes sense to me considering Final Fantasy 7 is what Cloud specifically represents for Smash Bros. Ultimate and no other Final Fantasy title, unlike Hero who takes bits and pieces (even if it's like 80% DQXI). At least this was according to in-game Spirits references and the website pre-Sephiroth.

And that's nonsense. His series tag is "Final Fantasy." There is actually zero reason for them to restrict it so heavily to just one game.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I’ve been binging Red Vs. Blue lately, and a thought crossed my mind.

If we got the Master Chief as CP11, wouldn’t it be cool to have a song like Blood Gulch Blues like how we got Advent Children songs with Sephiroth? It’s an original song, sure, but RVB is practically synonymous with Halo as a whole. At the very least, I’d expect some sort of reference at Microsoft’s request.

 

[Idon]

I’ve been binging Red Vs. Blue lately, and a thought crossed my mind.

If we got the Master Chief as CP11, wouldn’t it be cool to have a song like Blood Gulch Blues as a song like how we got Advent Children songs with Sephiroth? It’s an original song, sure, but RVB is practically synonymous with Halo as a whole. At the very least, I’d expect some sort of reference at Microsoft’s request.

I don't exactly think fan material is on the table as far as Smash goes.
If that were the case, I think they'd very much include the notorious "Can't Beat Airman" inspired by Mega Man 2, a song which even Capcom itself acknowledged in official capacity.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I think there‘s a fair bit of revisionism going around here. Earlier it was claimed that Byleth was seen as a ridiculous choice when in my memory he was on everyone’s radar as a weirdly likely worst case scenario and now people are somehow pretending that Aegis was not on everyone’s predictions and that Steve was a left field pick when he was just on the backburner.

Do we get surprises in Smash? Absolutely, and some if most of these surprises we definitely could’ve seen coming, but the notion that Smash speculation is cursed to be always wrong kinda rubs me the wrong way.

A lot of people probably already said their thoughts but... you're completely removing context from any of those examples.

Byleth was thought of very early on, before we even got Joker revealed, because most people had the idea that the first Pass would be nothing but shill picks, so they chose the "most boring" option for Fire Emblem (aka self-insert of the next game) to represent the shillness. And when Three Houses actually became something people would be okay with seeing in Smash, it was almost universally Edelgard for the sole reason that she didn't use a sword.

By the time we actually got Byleth revealed, most people expected Dante due to an unfortunate timing of the DMC twitter announcement dates and the fact that everyone believed the entire Pass would be third-parties because every one before the final spot was one, which is why Byleth is seen as a bad addition; they crushed expectations in the worst ways. The fact that they had the most boring trailer since Isabelle's certainly didn't help either.

As for Aegis, we still had the mindset that costumes deconfirmed franchises before their reveal, so in that time's mindset, we never would have even thought of the Aegis being playable because of the Rex outfit.

And Steve? Talks about him died down the moment the Microsoft flame wars ended with us getting Banjo. The company as a whole was pretty much rarely talked about after the bear and bird came back home, so Minecraft Steve still came out of left field in that sense.

Long story short, hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[MarioRaccoon]

My ideal Star Fox game is something that combines Breath of the Wild open world idea with both on foot and airwing combat.

Like a big salad of No Mans Sky + Mass Effect + Ace Combat + Star Wars Battlefront.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

A lot of people probably already said their thoughts but... you're completely removing context from any of those examples.

Byleth was thought of very early on, before we even got Joker revealed, because most people had the idea that the first Pass would be nothing but shill picks, so they chose the "most boring" option for Fire Emblem (aka self-insert of the next game) to represent the shillness. And when Three Houses actually became something people would be okay with seeing in Smash, it was almost universally Edelgard for the sole reason that she didn't use a sword.

By the time we actually got Byleth revealed, most people expected Dante due to an unfortunate timing of the DMC twitter announcement dates and the fact that everyone believed the entire Pass would be third-parties because every one before the final spot was one, which is why Byleth is seen as a bad addition; they crushed expectations in the worst ways. The fact that they had the most boring trailer since Isabelle's certainly didn't help either.

As for Aegis, we still had the mindset that costumes deconfirmed franchises before their reveal, so in that time's mindset, we never would have even thought of the Aegis being playable because of the Rex outfit.

And Steve? Talks about him died down the moment the Microsoft flame wars ended with us getting Banjo. The company as a whole was pretty much rarely talked about after the bear and bird came back home, so Minecraft Steve still came out of left field in that sense.

Long story short, hindsight is always 20/20.

Just a heads up, Edelgard was actually one of the first predicted FE3H characters because we didn't exactly have much to go off of but she was the most featured character in promotional footage and Byleth didn't have a name yet. Then more footage came out and you could say Byleth was the frontrunner although many 3H fans did want an actual character and not a blank slate protag.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Luigi's Mansion 3 added a crap ton of new characters, not just the 3 you mentioned

Hence the "etc."

I'm not gonna waste time typing every single one of the 20+ new characters LM3 introduced, most of which being the new bosses.

No, origami King also has Mario, Peach, Luigi, Bowser, Toad etc who are already represented.

That's... literally what I said.

Animal Crossing still has the Nook family and Isabel.

New Horizons still cut Katrina, Brewster, Dr. Shrunk, Nat, Chip, Luna (at the time of the spirit event), Phineas, Redd (at the time of the event), both Resettis, Reese and Cyrus (at the time of the event), Rover (at the time of the event) and a few others.

My point is that they removed so much of the old characters in the newest game that the AC spirits felt outdated as a result of that.

We even got a Bowser's fury event with literally Mario and Bowser spirits just because they were in new forms. Having recurring characters already in the game doesn't mean Nintendo won't do a spirit event for them.

To be fair, we did get a Mario Golf event a couple weeks ago.

Now those are fair points. And my only rebuttal is "Nintendo's weird" because while I think it's weird that LM3 didn't get a Spirit event, most LM Spirits cover the stuff 3 has because LM3 is basically just a better version of Dark Moon.

The only stuff they could pull is Gooigi and the boss ghosts. Everything else is just taken from Dark Moon.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

On top of that, the association with Star Fox made sure that all the good ideas from that game could be revisited again.

Things like Krystal, Tricky (well debatable for that one), Sauria itself all get major roles or references in later games.

Don’t forget they gave us THIS thing of beauty (cursing included, watch at your own risk):

 

[Sigran101]

I don't exactly think fan material is on the table as far as Smash goes.
If that were the case, I think they'd very much include the notorious "Can't Beat Airman" inspired by Mega Man 2, a song which even Capcom itself acknowledged in official capacity.

Where's my "eye of the spider" and "mine daimonds" with Steve, damn it!

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

"Fun" fact

During the development for Star Fox Command, Dylan Cuthbert actually wanted to include traditional rail-shooter stages just like in the first few games...but Miyamoto said no.

The Making Of: Star Fox Command, Fox McCloud's Nintendo DS Test Flight

"Miyamoto wanted us to try out new ideas and see what happened"

www.nintendolife.com

It actually is remarkable how hostile Miyamoto seems to be to the idea of a Star Fox space shooter game without a gimmick. Given that Star Wars Rogue Leader managed to outsell both Star Fox Adventures & Assault (at least according to what limited data we have) while stuff like Star Wars Squadrons can still find an audience to this day, one wonders about the alternate universe where SF actually evolved its core mechanics rather than putting on various hats for each title.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Just a heads up, Edelgard was actually one of the first predicted FE3H characters because we didn't exactly have much to go off of but she was the most featured character in promotional footage and Byleth didn't have a name yet. Then more footage came out and you could say Byleth was the frontrunner although many 3H fans did want an actual character and not a blank slate protag.

I'd be willing to bet that if Edelgard was seen using a sword rather than an axe, most people wouldn't have cared as much as they did about her at that time.

I mean, Corrin has one of the most unique concepts of the entire Smash franchise and they're still hated to this day, nearly 6 years later, for being "another FE swordfighter"

 

[Sigran101]

Hence the "etc."

I'm not gonna waste time typing every single one of the 20+ new characters LM3 introduced, most of which being the new bosses.


That's... literally what I said.


New Horizons still cut Katrina, Brewster, Dr. Shrunk, Nat, Chip, Luna (at the time of the spirit event), Phineas, Redd (at the time of the event), both Resettis, Reese and Cyrus (at the time of the event), Rover (at the time of the event) and a few others.

My point is that they removed so much of the old characters in the newest game that the AC spirits felt outdated as a result of that.



Now those are fair points. And my only rebuttal is "Nintendo's weird" because while I think it's weird that LM3 didn't get a Spirit event, most LM Spirits cover the stuff 3 has because LM3 is basically just a better version of Dark Moon.

The only stuff they could pull is Gooigi and the boss ghosts. Everything else is just taken from Dark Moon.

Have you actually played those games? Because the only thing from dark Moon that's in LM3 is polterpup. If you really think LM3 is so similar to LM2 that it doesn't even warrant representation, then I can't take your LM takes seriously.

 

[Theguy123]

seeing talk about Luigi mansion 2 and 3 being the same. They’re completely different.

for starters Luigi travels parallel dimensions in Lm2 and has fought in parallel dimensions in Lm2

why can’t Mario do this stuff. I’d kill to see Mario do this.

wish dark moon was ported to the switch. It’s arguably the better Luigi mansion game out of the 3 and it’s where you get most of the story from along with all the cool cannon stuff that makes Luigi practically better than mario in my opinion

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Have you actually played those games? Because the only thing from dark Moon that's in LM3 is polterpup. If you really think LM3 is so similar to LM2 that it doesn't even warrant representation, then I can't take your LM takes seriously.

I actually binged LM3 a lot recently. Great games, great floors, even greater puzzles, Gooigi is neat. I love it.

Same basic enemies but with different names ("Greenies" wouldn't make sense if 3 makes them blue) aside from the one new mook that requires both Luigi and Gooigi to take down, E. Gadd's lab is basically the same as Dark Moon's except it's now portable for extra convenience, has every mechanic from Dark Moon making a return alongside the plunger shot and that one other mechanic they only used three times...

The unique things from LM3 are the Gooigi shenanigans, the slam mechanic, the suctions shots, the level design and the bosses. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved these aspects but in the end, it's still essentially a Dark Moon 2 except every issue about Dark Moon has been adressed in some fashion in 3, like how the combat is significantly less of a grind with the slam or how the various floors actually have far more variation in their themes so they blend in less. They even gave more creative names to the enemies because they knew they wouldn't get away with just "Greenies" again.

 

[Sigran101]

I actually binged LM3 a lot recently. Great games, great floors, even greater puzzles, Gooigi is neat. I love it.

Same basic enemies but with different names ("Greenies" wouldn't make sense if 3 makes them blue) aside from the one new mook that requires both Luigi and Gooigi to take down, E. Gadd's lab is basically the same as Dark Moon's except it's now portable for extra convenience, has every mechanic from Dark Moon making a return alongside the plunger shot and that one other mechanic they only used three times...

The only unique things from LM3 are the Gooigi shenanigans, the slam mechanic, the suctions shots, the level design and the bosses. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved these aspects but in the end, it's still essentially a Dark Moon 2 except every issue about Dark Moon has been adressed in some fashion in 3.

So to summerize, they kept the new mechanics from the last game while adding a bunch of new ones, and implemented different levels and bosses? Sounds to me like basically every sequel. Luigi's Mansion 3 does a lot more differently from 2 than that though. How about the switch from mission based gameplay to free roaming? How about the return of portrait ghosts on every floor instead of generic possesor ghosts at the end of the entire mansions , which was a huge fan request? Plus the mechanical differences with Gooigi and the plunger shot completely change the way the game is played. And even if it wasn't that different, it's certainly more different than Animal Crossing New Horizons or Mariol Golf Super Rush are from the previous entries and those got spirit events.

 

[Theguy123]

I actually binged LM3 a lot recently. Great games, great floors, even greater puzzles, Gooigi is neat. I love it.

Same basic enemies but with different names ("Greenies" wouldn't make sense if 3 makes them blue) aside from the one new mook that requires both Luigi and Gooigi to take down, E. Gadd's lab is basically the same as Dark Moon's except it's now portable for extra convenience, has every mechanic from Dark Moon making a return alongside the plunger shot and that one other mechanic they only used three times...

The unique things from LM3 are the Gooigi shenanigans, the slam mechanic, the suctions shots, the level design and the bosses. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved these aspects but in the end, it's still essentially a Dark Moon 2 except every issue about Dark Moon has been adressed in some fashion in 3, like how the combat is significantly less of a grind with the slam or how the various floors actually have far more variation in their themes so they blend in less. They even gave more creative names to the enemies because they knew they wouldn't get away with just "Greenies" again.

LM3’s story is also quite unique. It’s about a deranged immortal god ghost finally realising he can’t allow the green plumber to live after 2 games and finally trying to end him once and for all.

the story’s in Luigi mansion games with its lore are some of the most interesting things which I wish Mario games had instead of recycling the same plot.

Lm1- king boo tricks the bros into coming to a mansion so that he can put the bros in paintings for harming boos in previous encounters

Lm2- king boo escapes and breaks the dark moon in order to take control of the ghosts, capture mario and open up the parallel dimension to break reality whilst also using the mines to enhanced his servants

Lm3- king boo escapes thanks to his new lover assistant who helps plan a trap so he can end Luigi once and for all. The plot in this games a tad weaker but we get to see the 1 on 1 dialogue between the 2 villains and it’s a set up for LM4