Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cutie Gwen]

Well I guess I know who to DM when Toadette makes it in and you, stubborn and short-sighted Smash community, have never picked up on her slow but steady rise in the Mario canon that could logically only have resulted on her being added as the final character.

Toadette is a class traitor and she will never be added because of that

 

[Sigran101]

Don't care didn't ask plus you think King Boo will be the last character
I mean, Awakening got me into the series so I disagree that it was a bad game, but I do like the direction 3H took a lot more. Fates is just a horribly written mess.

Why do people get so triggered when I suggest King Boo? Every time I mention it the whole thread rushes me like a pack of hyenas. Am I not allowed to respond to your posts because I dare to suggest a character you think is unlikely? Honestly, people even harrass me in private messages over it and I get tagged for no reason when nobody is even talking about it just for people to bully me more over predicting King Boo. And I've done it like three times including this one since October 2019, but I get harrassed for months afterwards. Why can't you people just accept that it's okay for others to disagree with the majority?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As far as Tomb Raider goes, it's surprisingly present on Nintendo consoles, having games on the Wii, Nintendo DS, Game Cube, Game Boy Advance, and Game Boy Color (I still can't get over that. lol). The series skipped the Wii U, and is currently in the AAA PC/Playstation game space where it's meant for high end graphics cards, so a Switch port wouldn't likely be feasible. Whether or not Nintendo gamers would have seen much of Lara Croft, I'm not sure.

I do know that Lara is still considered to be one of the biggest icons in gaming, especially as one of the first big female action heroes in the medium alongside Samus and Chun-Li.

When it comes to Super Smash Bros. though, Lara has to compete with Final Fantasy, and Dragon Quest, and as prolific as the Tomb Raider series is, I do think it kind of the second banana in comparison to two of the biggest RPG series ever (I was going to say the two biggest, but then I remembered Pokémon). Lara's also going head to head with games that the community is more predisposed to like, or at least think about, such as Neir Automata, Super Mario RPG, and Chrono Trigger. Due to, like, two users here, even The World Ends With You gets mentioned more often than Tomb Raider, which is strange, but them's the breaks I guess.

One last thing that likely keeps her from entering speculation is that from what I've seen, Super Smash Bros. kind of needs more characters from realistic (well...pretending to be realistic anyway) settings before people will be convinced that characters from these kinds of settings gave anything new or interesting to bring to the table.

 

[subterrestrial]

Wat

Of XC2 characters, people were first and foremost predicting Rex. And with him Pyra, but Pyra/Mythra, sans Rex? No.

And Byleth had some people predicting them... generally with less enthusiasm than those who were predicting Edelgard, and the vast majority didn't believe they'd round out FP1 because on the back of four third-parties, people were hard leaning into believing the entire first pass would continue that trend. Patterns and goldfish memory and all.


It wasn't foreshadowing hun, the Ultimate roster wasn't being made in 2013 or 2014 or whenever they cobbled the Robin/Lucina trailer together. Not the least of which is because Chrom is based mostly on a character that wasn't even in Smash 4 at that point.

If anything, Chrom seems like a late addition to Ultimate, judging by his repurposed model and the fact that they didn't even bother changing Robin's FS.

the people who predicted rex with pyra/mythra were basically correct because that was their initial idea for the moveset. this is a perfect example of attempting to revise history and paint ppl who were correct as wrong

so despite the fact that they alluded to chrom becoming playable in ultimate and chrom ACTUALLY becoming playable in ultimate...its still somehow doesnt count as foreshadowing? that's literally a textbook example

 

[Schnee117]

Chrom was a predictable character but it wasn't because in 2013/2014 Sakurai was foreshadowing a game that would be revealed and released in 2018. That notion is foolishness.

It was because the circumstances around Ultimate which included:

A. Everyone was back, including a character that was a more aggressive version of Marth
B. Clones were marketed as an Official Feature™ so Chrom could be a Clone of said Aggressive Marth
C. People noticed Robin's final smash wasn't being shown where pretty much everyone else's was, which really turned out to not have been changed so wouldn't have meant a whole lot. I think one of Ike's alts that referenced Chrom was gone too?

 

[SKX31]

sees acronym
"hmmmmmm."
...
"Them's Fightin' In Ya'll's Absolutely American Alley words."
/nod

Kinda?

(Source: Mang0's twitch)

Was mainly referring to Shinobu Satouchis voicework for and where he yells that. But eh, that works too.

Yeah, I was only talking about the Power Suit. I do remember some discourse about Zero Suit Samus's Jet Heels in Super Smash Bros., though I only really saw Gaijin Goomba's reaction to it.

There was a thread about it as recently as 2018, and it's telling when IsmaR stepped in directly to stifle any intense arguments before they had a chance to re-ignite.

Here's a fun question:
Do any of you think the final fighter might be a character that's been disregarded in speculation due to a preconceived notion that they're disconfirmed?

I ask because part of me wants to see @3BitSaurus signature keep expanding lol

Yes, it's fully possible. The major caveat here that "disregarded" covers a lot of possible avenues, so it's difficult to say how likely such a scenario is. Still, it is certainly feasible - CP11 could be first party (even if I kinda doubt it since most remaining options have been Spirit Event'ed) but it could also be a character from an IP with an upcoming Switch debut (even if that'd take intentional planning to accomplish).

 

[Idon]

Here's a fun question:
Do any of you think the final fighter might be a character that's been disregarded in speculation due to a preconceived notion that they're disconfirmed?

I ask because part of me wants to see @3BitSaurus signature keep expanding lol

Yeah, look at my signature.

 

[Jondolio]

Why do people get so triggered when I suggest King Boo? Every time I mention it the whole thread rushes me like a pack of hyenas. Am I not allowed to respond to your posts because I dare to suggest a character you think is unlikely? Honestly, people even harrass me in private messages over it and I get tagged for no reason when nobody is even talking about it just for people to bully me more over predicting King Boo. And I've done it like three times including this one since October 2019, but I get harrassed for months afterwards. Why can't you people just accept that it's okay for others to disagree with the majority?

I was joking. I even put a strike for emphasis.
That being said I didn't know you were getting harassed over it, it was genuinely not my intention to bully you over it, so I'm sorry if that's how I came across. Some people in this frankly, **** community take this speculation thing way too seriously.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Here's a fun question:
Do any of you think the final fighter might be a character that's been disregarded in speculation due to a preconceived notion that they're disconfirmed?

I ask because part of me wants to see @3BitSaurus signature keep expanding lol

Oh, not at all. Except well, you know

Spoiler

LET. HIM. IIIIIIIIN

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

the people who predicted rex with pyra/mythra were basically correct because that was their initial idea for the moveset. this is a perfect example of attempting to revise history and paint ppl who were correct as wrong

Eh, I would only say that they'd be technically correct since that was Sakurai's initial idea, but ultimately incorrect because that's not what we ended up getting.

Yeah, look at my signature.

If that expanded we wouldn't be able to see your mains anymore.

 

[Jondolio]

Here's a fun question:
Do any of you think the final fighter might be a character that's been disregarded in speculation due to a preconceived notion that they're disconfirmed?

I ask because part of me wants to see @3BitSaurus signature keep expanding lol

Pokémon and I will die on this hill

 

[subterrestrial]

Chrom was a predictable character but it wasn't because in 2013/2014 Sakurai was foreshadowing a game that would be revealed and released in 2018. That notion is foolishness.

It was because the circumstances around Ultimate which included:

A. Everyone was back, including a character that was a more aggressive version of Marth
B. Clones were marketed as an Official Feature™ so Chrom could be a Clone of said Aggressive Marth
C. People noticed Robin's final smash wasn't being shown where pretty much everyone else's was, which really turned out to not have been changed so wouldn't have meant a whole lot. I think one of Ike's alts that referenced Chrom was gone too?

how is it foolish to deduce chrom would become playable after he straight up said "maybe I'll get my chance another day" in an official smash reveal trailer? that's makes way more plausible sense than speculating over final smashes and ****ing alt costumes lmao

tbh regardless of the why/how u gather ur evidence for predictions, these smash inclusions are not the utmost secrets of the universe hidden from society lmao ppl rly act like its sacred knowledge that no mere mortal can ever comprehend. I bet someone even predicted plant

 

[Bobthealligator]

That is not how evidence works. How do you all play Ace Attorney when you don’t even know what evidence is?

Evidence establishes a narrative before the verdict or the conclusive evidence comes, it is still true no matter what the conclusion of the trial or the event is.

I've made this point many times, but usually get met with "the point of Ace Attorney is that the truth doesn't make sense". And I suppose that's true of Dual Destinies and a handful of the worst cases from the rest

bro its not just hindsight; people predict correctly sometimes is it that hard to believe? there's literally millions of brains speculating someone is bound to eventually figure it out

literally hundreds of people predicted aegis and byleth. people even predicted byleth specifically being the last character in fp1 due to their known precedent. it really isnt that difficult to connect the dots, but when someones does connect the dots ppl just call them wrong and forget about it...

I definitely called Byleth on another forum. I may also have called them on here tbh but I'm not 100% sure

 

[Schnee117]

how is it foolish to deduce chrom would become playable after he straight up said "maybe I'll get my chance another day" in an official smash reveal trailer? that's makes way more plausible sense than speculating over final smashes and ****ing alt costumes lmao

Because Sakurai treats each Smash game like his last one.
He wasn't foreshadowing a game that he didn't even know he was gonna make, use some common sense.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Why do people get so triggered when I suggest King Boo?

Did you just say King Boo is likely?

YOU'RE DEAD!

 

[Wunderwaft]

Oh, not at all. Except well, you know

Spoiler

View attachment 329993
LET. HIM. IIIIIIIIN

One of these days he's gonna bust through that door, it's just a matter of when.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Toadette is a class traitor and she will never be added because of that

I guess you’ll be first on the list in my conquest to prove after the fact how obvious Toadette was.

Yeah, look at my signature.

I-is this about SMTV for Smash? I honestly can’t think of a single character more likely or discussed according to Smash speculation than him. Honestly, if he’s seen as unpredicted in hindsight, I don’t see who wouldn’t be.

And now Jondo mentions Pokémon. Honestly, on one hand the Smash community is condemned for being too singular and focus and on the other hand anything not seen as absolute frontrunner, at the exact right time and exactly right in execution will be spun into a surprise pick.

how is it foolish to deduce chrom would become playable after he straight up said "maybe I'll get my chance another day" in an official smash reveal trailer? that's makes way more plausible sense than speculating over final smashes and ****ing alt costumes lmao

It’s about the order of events. Sakurai could’ve looked back when designing Ultimate and looking for Echo Fighters, and revisited his idea of an aggressive Marth-Chrom to implement, but foreshadowing requires Sakurai designing Smash 4 back in 2012, reject Chrom and put in that line in his trailer because he knew he’d be making a new Smash Bros with a return of deliberate and pre-planned clones for him to put Chrom in then. One thing caused the other, but considering the timeline only one really makes sense as the cause and the other as effect.

 

[subterrestrial]

Because Sakurai treats each Smash game like his last one.
He wasn't foreshadowing a game that he didn't even know he was gonna make, use some common sense.

okay so despite this scenario of foreshadowing actually coming true in real life, it still doesnt count as foreshadowing because he didnt plan to actually follow through? is that what you're saying?

 

[N3ON]

the people who predicted rex with pyra/mythra were basically correct because that was their initial idea for the moveset. perfect example of attempting to revise history and paint ppl as wrong

Revising history is saying people are correct because of an idea that didn't transpire to the final product.

They're no more correct than those who predicted we'd get Mewtwo in Brawl.

I guess they're closer in their prediction than predicting a character that wasn't even intended, but the character isn't playable in the final product; they're still incorrect.

so despite the fact that they alluded to chrom becoming playable in ultimate and chrom ACTUALLY becoming playable in ultimate...its still somehow doesnt count as foreshadowing? that's literally a textbook example

It's only foreshadowing if you entirely disregard the actual timeline of Smash 4 and Ultimate development.

 

[Sigran101]

I was joking. I even put a strike for emphasis.
That being said I didn't know you were getting harassed over it, it was genuinely not my intention to bully you over it, so I'm sorry if that's how I came across. Some people in this frankly, **** community take this speculation thing way too seriously.

Thanks, that means a lot. Sometimes people use the strike across things they know they're not supposed to say but are saying anyway as a toung in cheek way of acknowledging they're being toxic. I appreciate the clarification.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

okay so despite this scenario of foreshadowing actually coming true in real life, it still doesnt count as foreshadowing because he didnt plan to actually follow through? is that what you're saying?

It‘s a case of stupidly hair-splitting semantics, but yes, foreshadowing wouldn’t be the right word.

EDIT: As for Rex and Pyra, there’s degrees to not hitting the bulls’ eye and considering the scope of the gaming sphere I don’t feel it’s entirely fair (but again technically correct) to say that people didn’t predict the Aegis when they said Rex & Pyra would be added because Xenoblade 2 was a big deal. Out of all the games and series and IPs and even companies the Smash community doesn’t guess, Xenoblade 2‘s Aegis wasn’t a miss to the same degree.

 

[Sucumbio]

I predict(ed) pokemon had the best chance and smtv runner up and I still believe one of these two is likely after just a few weeks of hearing from multiple people albeit mainly from here. But now I'm into a million more characters so now I'm staying to see if anyone was right.

 

[SharkLord]

If Don-can was in Smash he would be shown as a villian because he would make every character perfect combo a song on the higest difficulty and when they miss a note, he kicks their ass

Don-Chan whenever you miss a note by as much as a millisecond (swear warning)

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Anyway, my list is clear and in my signature. I only wish I had the courage and commitment to run with one of them out of pure spite and general dedication. Paper Mario seems the likeliest for that I believe

 

[subterrestrial]

It‘s a case of stupidly hair-splitting semantics, but yes, foreshadowing wouldn’t be the right word.

but he obviously did follow thru...and the line in the trailer is clear evidence that he actually did plan to make chrom playable in the next installment. like im genuinely struggling to understand how this isnt foreshadowing

sakurai obviously didnt put that line in the trailer because he didnt plan on adding chrom, he put it there because he did

 

[N3ON]

Foreshadowing requires intent.

And the argument is intent is there because Chrom showed up.

The argument against there being intent that is Ultimate's plan didn't exist when that line was being written, clones aren't usually even added at the outset of character selection, the character Chrom was based on wasn't even in 4 at that point, Sakurai doesn't plan future rosters when working on a current Smash (other than some overlap in 2015), if his intent was just to make Chrom a clone he could've done that in 4, it seems that even for clones Chrom was added later than others, and that Sakurai ascribed Chrom's inclusion to popularity.

 

[Idon]

I-is this about SMTV for Smash? I honestly can’t think of a single character more likely or discussed according to Smash speculation than him. Honestly, if he’s seen as unpredicted in hindsight, I don’t see who wouldn’t be.

SMT in general.
Very common argument is the whole "Persona already represents SMT"
SMTV's gotten traction thanks to recency bias and I've got that game specifically in the sig just to get more people's attention, but before that it was a very very common thought.

 

[Schnee117]

Chrom saying "I'll get my chance another day" was immediately followed up with footage of him as Robin's final smash

The inherent and intended payoff was that he did get his chance, just not as what most people expected.

Without Ultimate as it is, Chrom's chance would have remained as such.

 

[Sucumbio]

Another spacie!?

Please Nintendo! "TRY MEEE" sure soon as you make her playable that staff has potential.

 

[Idon]

Another spacie!?

Please Nintendo! "TRY MEEE" sure soon as you make her playable that staff has potential.

If you're talking about Krystal, I don't even think she's even in that game.

 

[Schnee117]

If you're talking about Krystal, I don't even think she's even in that game.

It was Slippy that got the spin-off with it so...
Unload the Toad

 

[N3ON]

Another spacie!?

Please Nintendo! "TRY MEEE" sure soon as you make her playable that staff has potential.

That game probably already would be on the Switch if it either didn't so heavily use asynchronous gameplay or was actually successful.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Speaking of Star Fox, I wonder what the reactions would have been in an alternate scenario where there were two more characters in the base game after Kencineroar but they turned out to be Miyu and Faye as Echo Fighters of Fox and Falco respectively.

 

[Ivander]

Speaking of Star Fox, I wonder what the reactions would have been in an alternate scenario where there were two more characters in the base game after Kencineroar but they turned out to be Miyu and Faye as Echo Fighters of Fox and Falco respectively.

I'm honestly more curious about what would've happened if Falco, Slippy and Peppy did become alternate costumes for Fox in 64.

 

[SharkLord]

Here's a fun question:
Do any of you think the final fighter might be a character that's been disregarded in speculation due to a preconceived notion that they're disconfirmed?

I ask because part of me wants to see @3BitSaurus signature keep expanding lol

Given past precedent...

Yeah, I can easily see widely-accepted assumptions getting the boot. We've had fairly predicted characters before, even with a minor catch of some sort like being before/after they were expected or not being the exact character we were thinking of, we've still had a lot of moments where it was someone who wasn't even thought to be possible. Hell, I remember after Pyra everyone was talking about how the fighters were actually predicted a lot and how after Sephiroth we couldn't get such a curveball again, and who did we get? Kazuya, of all people. I've been in the "expect the unexpected" mindset for a while now, and I can easily see someone more or less written off like Isaac or Reimu getting in against all odds.

 

[Trevenant]

Speaking of Star Fox, I wonder what the reactions would have been in an alternate scenario where there were two more characters in the base game after Kencineroar but they turned out to be Miyu and Faye as Echo Fighters of Fox and Falco respectively.

It probably would have been worse than Byleth TBH. Base game had way more eyes on smash than DLC and if they went and added two more space animals, as echoes for a series whose playable representation heavily derive from each other as is but are at least unique, who aren't named Krystal and are from a series that... wouldn't and still isn't in the best place... add on that they aren't particularly interesting characters to begin with... Yeah, if this did happen without any other new starfox games and such then this would probably be way more controversial than Byleth, and I'd honestly agree with most of the hate people would send its way as it would honestly be tone deaf af. Obviously it's more characters, but in this hypothetical we wouldn't be able to compare realities so.. yeah.

 

[SharkLord]

Speaking of Star Fox, I wonder what the reactions would have been in an alternate scenario where there were two more characters in the base game after Kencineroar but they turned out to be Miyu and Faye as Echo Fighters of Fox and Falco respectively.

Probably a lot of surprise, a fair bit of "Who asked for this?!," but still people willing to accept them as harmless extras or happy that Star Fox and/or such ignored characters got some attention. It seems to me that the vast majority of characters in Smash are either forgotten or simply polarizing with a fair bit of supporters on their side, and I don't think there would be too much distaste surrounding them.

 

[Sucumbio]

If you're talking about Krystal, I don't even think she's even in that game.

Yeah she from star fox's version of ddp~sm2 on GameCube still have it but the "wait up fox!" every 10 seconds annoyed the **** out of me. And the whole time I'm thinking wait this is zelda with fox characters and why not Space dinosaurs or whatever that thing was NOPE that's too low.

 

[RileyXY1]

Yeah she from star fox's version of ddp~sm2 on GameCube still have it but the "wait up fox!" every 10 seconds annoyed the **** out of me. And the whole time I'm thinking wait this is zelda with fox characters and why not Space dinosaurs or whatever that thing was NOPE that's too low.

Star Fox Adventures was supposed to be a new IP until Nintendo decided to shove Star Fox characters into it.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Star Fox Adventures was supposed to be a new IP until Nintendo decided to shove Star Fox characters into it.

Yeah I'm not really sure what prompted the decision.

"That tiger man is too bland. Add Fox, a still pretty vanilla character, instead."