Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Cutie Gwen]

Speaking of which, I kinda find it funny how people begged for Directs back, and now the general reaction seems to be "whelmed".


Like, gonna be real with ya, outside of E3, Directs have always been kinda whelmed, it's usually one or two BIG titles/reveals and then just a bunch of small ****.


Like, going back to compare, I watched the September 2019 Direct, the last one that we had before the 530 day wait and like... holy **** there's a whole lot of nothing here. You had some New Horizon news, which took up a solid 8 or so minutes of the total runtime, you had Terry's reveal, you had a teaser for the Xenoblade 1 remake, and the rest is just "Hey, this game is out now!" "That game, is out now!" "Here's some games we're adding to NSO!"


I feel like the spectacle of Directs is what people missed moreso than Directs themselves, because TBF, IMO, Directs are usually hit or miss, with the only really BIG one being the E3 one.

This is the second time I've seen someone assume what 'whelmed' means only to be completely wrong.

whelmed; whelming; whelms
Definition of whelm
transitive verb

1: to turn (something, such as a dish or vessel) upside down usually to cover something : cover or engulf completely with usually disastrous effect
2: to overcome in thought or feeling : OVERWHELM
whelmed with a rush of joy


I know it's hip af to shorten words but underwhelmed is a different word entirely

Never said their normals weren't the same, but from what I can make of the footage, it seems that, just like I said in my original post you quoted, Pyra is geared to be the powerhouse while Mythra is the speedy/combo based character.

They definitely seem distinct enough from one another that it's hard for me to call one a clone, but I guess we'll know for sure when the presentation airs.

Clone has been used as a term for characters with stat differences since the beginning, otherwise the likes of Luigi, Falco, Ganondorf, Roy, etc wouldn't be called clones either, and some of those even had different normals than the characters they were cloned from.

 

[The_Naraotor]

I didn't feel any ounce of hype with Homura & Hikari reveal in Smash mainly because we got another Sword user I would have been more pumped with a female character that can punch I need more people who use their fist. That or people that can shoot pew pew or bang bang like Lara Croft for example.

Please Sakurai.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Did I miss anything of interest while asleep?

 

[Eeeyah911]

Did I miss anything of interest while asleep?

No idea.

 

[Kokiden]

Anyone think we been getting that many JRPG characters as DLC?

Yup. I think that we're going to get at least one more as well.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Yeah, I mean the Direct to me was just ok. Nothing blew my socks off but the sheer knowledge that Nintendo Directs aren’t dead makes me happy to no end.

So even though I was just meh on most of the stuff revealed in the Direct I still very much enjoyed it. I guess that’s the disconnect here. You can still really enjoy the Direct without being incredibly excited about most it’s content.

 

[3BitSaurus]

In terms of a Volume 3, they could theoretically do it - there's enough Switch lifetime for about one or two more 2-year long seasons. And it's certainly worth it money-wise, according to Nintendo.

Thing is, from a development perspective, things have stretched out since Smash 4. So in that sense, I can understand why Sakurai and team would want to stop, and I think it's best to take his word for it when he says it's the end.

So basically: I do think it's technically possible, but the chances are really, really low.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

How does the Aegis‘ being a duo fighter impact the magical 4 WoL slots? Is one of them taken by them now or are they still free real estate?

 

[StrangeKitten]

I find this doubtful. Based on previous characters, Sakurai's presentation is almost guaranteed to have already been recorded by now.

Oh right, though I suppose it could still be possible that the alts aren't done. I don't think Sakurai has ever covered alts much before, with the exceptions of Hero and Steve where they were a bigger deal than normal. He plays the characters in their default outfits, in states that are so unfinished as to usually need more time to release them. It makes me wonder what the entire process is like. Why do we have to wait months when the character is in a playable state? What I'd give for them to make a documentary on all the steps to making and releasing a character...

Maybe there was some issue with the site? I'm just drawing on a complete blank on reasons why they would hide the alts.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

In terms of a Volume 3, they could theoretically do it - there's enough Switch lifetime for about one or two more 2-year long seasons. And it's certainly worth it money-wise, according to Nintendo.

Thing is, from a development perspective, things have stretched out since Smash 4. So in that sense, I can understand why Sakurai and team would want to stop, and I think it's best to take his word for it when he says it's the end.

So basically: I do think it's technically possible, but the chances are really, really low.

Think they could take a short hiatus then jump back in?

 

[Pillow]

Yup. I think that we're going to get at least one more as well.

Does monster hunter count as a jrpg?

Yeah, I mean the Direct to me was just ok. Nothing blew my socks off but the sheer knowledge that Nintendo Directs aren’t dead makes me happy to no end.

So even though I was just meh on most of the stuff revealed in the Direct I still very much enjoyed it. I guess that’s the disconnect here. You can steal really enjoy the Direct without being incredibly excited about most it’s content.

I found it overall disappointing, and I both like JRPGs and didn’t expect anything from breathe of the wild or Metroid. Only Monster Hunter and Mario Golf out of everything interested me, and everyone already knew monster hunter was coming. I found Skyward Swords pricing at $60 to be borderline insulting.

In terms of a Volume 3, they could theoretically do it - there's enough Switch lifetime for about one or two more 2-year long seasons. And it's certainly worth it money-wise, according to Nintendo.

Thing is, from a development perspective, things have stretched out since Smash 4. So in that sense, I can understand why Sakurai and team would want to stop, and I think it's best to take his word for it when he says it's the end.

So basically: I do think it's technically possible, but the chances are really, really low.

If it does end here I definitely think a definitive edition of smash ultimate is something to look out for within the next few years.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Think they could take a short hiatus then jump back in?

I mean... maybe? I dunno if there's a "standard" for how long these breaks generally are in fighting game development, but it still depends on whether the team is willing to come back.

If it does end here I definitely think a definitive edition of smash ultimate is something to look out for within the next few years.

Maybe not the next few years, but farther down the road... who knows?

 

[I.D.]

Other than Pyra and Mythra I got to see SaGa Frontier remaster with the Fuse scenario (which had to be cut from the original game due to development issues) restored, something I genuinely thought I would NEVER see. I expected a bit more games in 50 minutes but I'm certainly not going to complain.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Dunno if someone has posted this yet, but here's the usual "Japan reacts to the new Smash character" video:

I just think it's pretty interesting.

 

[dezeray112]

I think the only ones who has the answer to whether there will be another fighters' pass are Masahiro Sakurai and Nintendo. But I guess we will have to wait and see what happens within the future.

 

[Dinoman96]

I'm curious to see how Pyra/Mythra's spirit board will be handeled.

Xenoblade 2 already has eight spirits, with only one of them not having a spirit battle.

Rex
Pyra
Mythra
Nia
Tora
Morag
Zeke
Poppi α - no spirit battle

If Min Min's any indication, Pyra and Mythra obviously won't be on the board. So that's five pre-existing spirit battles that will probably be included.

Poppi will probably get a spirit battle like how Ninjara and Ribbon Girl did with Min Min's update. Min Min's spirit board essentially brought eight new spirit fights with her, so if they did the same with Pyra/Mythra, and brought in seven all new spirits + give Poppi a battle, that would amount to 13 spirits on the board, like what Final Fantasy got.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I'm curious to see how Pyra/Mythra's spirit board will be handeled.

Xenoblade 2 already has eight spirits, with only one of them not having a spirit battle.

Rex
Pyra
Mythra
Nia
Tora
Morag
Zeke
Poppi α - no spirit battle

If Min Min's any indication, Pyra and Mythra obviously won't be on the board. So that's five pre-existing spirit battles that will probably be included.

Poppi will probably get a spirit battle like how Ninjara and Ribbon Girl did with Min Min's update. Min Min's spirit board essentially brought eight new spirit fights with her, so if they did the same with Pyra/Mythra, and brought in seven all new spirits + give Poppi a battle, that would amount to 13 spirits on the board, like what Final Fantasy got.

Hoping there’ll be no X spirits especially if they tease more fighters in development...

 

[Perkilator]

I'm curious to see how Pyra/Mythra's spirit board will be handeled.

Xenoblade 2 already has eight spirits, with only one of them not having a spirit battle.

Rex
Pyra
Mythra
Nia
Tora
Morag
Zeke
Poppi α - no spirit battle

If Min Min's any indication, Pyra and Mythra obviously won't be on the board. So that's five pre-existing spirit battles that will probably be included.

Poppi will probably get a spirit battle like how Ninjara and Ribbon Girl did with Min Min's update. Min Min's spirit board essentially brought eight new spirit fights with her, so if they did the same with Pyra/Mythra, and brought in seven all new spirits + give Poppi a battle, that would amount to 13 spirits on the board, like what Final Fantasy got.

Just what I was thinking! Here’s a more in-depth idea I had for the Spirit Board:

Spoiler: XC2 Spirit Board

View attachment 303905	1. Rex (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) Class: Type: Primary (Shield) Slots: ⬡⬡⬡ Effect: N/A Puppet Fighter: (Rex costume, moveset 3223) Minion: (Color 4) Stage: Gramps' Back (Omega) Music Track: Battle!! - Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Match: Stamina (90HP) Conditions: The floor is lava Stamina battle The enemy (Mii) starts the battle with a Fire Bar
View attachment 303902	2. Nia (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) Class: Type: Primary (Shield) Slots: ⬡⬡ Effect: Water Attack + Puppet Fighter: (Nia costume, moveset 2122) Minion: (Color 8) Stage: Gaur Plain (hazardless) Music Track: Battle!! - Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Match: Stamina (90HP) Conditions: Stamina battle The enemy heals over time
View attachment 303907	3. Tora (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) Class: Type: Primary (Shield) Slots: ⬡⬡⬡ Effect: N/A Puppet Fighter: (Color 8) Minion: (Color 4) Stage: Gaur Plain (hazardless) Music Track: Battle!! - Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Match: Stamina (80HP) Conditions: Stamina battle The enemy's shield has extra durability
View attachment 303904	4. Poppi (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) Class: Type: Support (Attack) Cost: ⬡ Effect: Shooting Attacks + Puppet Fighter: (Color 4) Minion: Pyra/Mythra Stage: Gramps' Back Music Track: Engage the Enemy Match: Stock (1) Item: Shooting Types Conditions: Defeat the main fighter to win The enemy's shield has extra durability The enemy (Daisy) turns metal and giant when badly damaged
View attachment 303901	5. Mòrag (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) Class: Type: Primary (Attack) Slots: ⬡ Effect: Fire Attack + Puppet Fighter: (Color 7) Minion: (Color 5) Stage: Gaur Plain (Battlefield) Music Track: Battle!! - Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Match: Stock (1) Conditions: Defeat the main fighter to win The floor is lava
View attachment 303908	7. Zeke (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) Class: Type: Primary (Attack) Slots: ⬡ Effect: N/A Puppet Fighter: (Color 4) Minion: (Color 7) Stage: Kongo Falls (Battlefield) Music Track: Those Who Stand Against Our Path - Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Match: Timed (1:00) Conditions: Survive until the timer runs out The floor is electrified The enemy will suddenly have a Final Smash after a little while
View attachment 303903	8. Pandoria (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) Class: Type: Support (Grab) Cost: ⬡ Effect: Zap Floor Resist Puppet Fighter: (Color 7) Minion: Tiny (Color 3) Stage: Gramps' Back (Battlefield) Music Track: Those Who Stand Against Our Path - Xenoblade Chronicles 2 Match: Stamina (85HP) Conditions: Defeat the main fighter to win The floor is electrified The enemy (Squirtle) has super armor but moves slowly
View attachment 303899	9. Lora (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) Class: Type: Primary (Neutral) Slots: ⬡⬡ Effect: Special Move Power + Puppet Fighter: (Color 7) Minion: Pyra/Mythra Stage: Gramps' Back Music Track: Battle!! (Torna) Match: Stamina (145HP) Conditions: Defeat the main fighter to win The enemy (Pyra/Mythra) will suddenly have a Final Smash
View attachment 303909	10. Jin (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) Class: Type: Support (Neutral) Cost: ⬡ Effect: Special Move Power + Puppet Fighter: (Color 5) CPU Ally: Pyra/Mythra Stage: Gramps' Back (Omega) Music Track: You Will Recall Our Names Match: Stamina (170HP) Conditions: The enemy favors special moves The enemy's FS meter charges quickly You lose if your CPU ally is K.O.'d
View attachment 303910	11. Malos (Xenoblade Chronicles 2) Class: Type: Primary (Neutral) Slots: ⬡⬡⬡ Effect: Puppet Fighter: Giant Metal (Color 3) CPU Ally: Pyra/Mythra Stage: Gramps' Back (Omega) Music Track: After Despair and Hope Match: Stamina (300HP) Conditions: The enemy will suddenly have a Final Smash The enemy's FS meter charges quickly You lose if your CPU ally is K.O.'d
View attachment 303898	12. KOS-MOS (Xenosaga series) Class: Type: Primary (Shield) Slots: ⬡⬡⬡ Effect: Shooting Attacks ++ Puppet Fighter: (Color 7) Stage: Music Track: Mechanical Rhythm Match: Stock (1) Items: Shooting Types Conditions: The enemy will suddenly have a Final Smash The enemy's shooting attacks have increased power The enemy favors special moves
View attachment 303897	13. Elma (Xenoblade Chronicles X) Class: Type: Primary (Attack) Slots: ⬡⬡ Effect: N/A Puppet Fighter: (Color 5) Stage: Gaur Plain (Omega) Music Track: Xenoblade Chronicles Medley Match: Stock (1) Conditions: The enemy will occasionally be invincible after a little while The enemy's melee weapons have increased power The enemy starts the battle with a Killing Edge
View attachment 303906	14. Shulk (Future Connected) (Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition) Class: Type: Support (Attack) Slots: ⬡ Effect: Special Move Power + Puppet Fighter: (defualt) Minion: x12 (Color 3) Stage: Gaur Plain (Battlefield) Music Track: You Will Know Our Names Match: Stock (1) Assist Trophy Enemies: Riki Conditions: Defeat the main fighter to win The enemy's special moves have increased power The enemy will suddenly have a Final Smash
View attachment 303900	15. Melia (Future Connected) (Xenoblade Chronicles Definitive Edition) Class: Type: Support (Neutral) Slots: ⬡ Effect: Weapon Attack + Puppet Fighter: Pya/Mythra Minion: (default) Stage: Gaur Plain (Omega) Music Track: Engage the Enemy Match: Stock (1) Assist Trophy Enemies: Riki Conditions: The floor is lava Hostile Assist Trophies will appear The enemy will suddenly have a Final Smash

 

[Dinoman96]

It would be really nice if they went back and changed Rex's fight to feature the Rex Mii Swordfighter, as well as having Pyra/Mythra as a minion.

They probably won't do that though considering it's a base game spirit, which they've never changed regardless of DLC. It's just really awkward that we now have the appropriate stage and music for Spring Man's fight and yet he still uses the Boxing Ring stage and Wii Sports Club music. Same thing with Twintelle who's fight still uses Mario Odyssey music, instead of, you know, Cinema Deux.

At least the spirit fights for Rex, Nia, Tora, Morag and Zeke have Xenoblade 2 music playing in them, so they won't feel as jarring as Spring Man and Twintelle do in Min Min's board.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Oh no, Kos-Mos is going to be a spirit isn’t she?

Condolences to Kos-Mos fans.

 

[Perkilator]

Here’s something I was wondering. Which XC2 character would be a good Assist Trophy?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Here’s something I was wondering. Which XC2 character would be a good Assist Trophy?

THE ZEKENATOR, of course!

 

[StrangeKitten]

It would be really nice if they went back and changed Rex's fight to feature the Rex Mii Swordfighter, as well as having Pyra/Mythra as a minion.

They probably won't do that though considering it's a base game spirit, which they've never changed regardless of DLC. It's just really awkward that we now have the appropriate stage and music for Spring Man's fight and yet he still uses the Boxing Ring stage and Wii Sports Club music. Same thing with Twintelle who's fight still uses Mario Odyssey music, instead of, you know, Cinema Deux.

At least the spirit fights for Rex, Nia, Tora, Morag and Zeke have Xenoblade 2 music playing in them, so they won't feel as jarring as Spring Man and Twintelle do in Min Min's board.

Petey Piranha's spirit battle still has you fighting against Ivysaur, too.

Not the biggest deal, but it would definitely be nice if they updated these once DLC is done.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Oh no, Kos-Mos is going to be a spirit isn’t she?

Condolences to Kos-Mos fans.

Or a Mii costume.

 

[Metal Shop X]

Dunno if someone has posted this yet, but here's the usual "Japan reacts to the new Smash character" video:



I just think it's pretty interesting.

I have zero ideas who any of those peoples are.

But seeing all those peoples getting excited & happy about a character I like make me happy too.

So thank you alot for sharing this.

(also shout-out to Raptor Dude, who went Jurassic Park when Pyra revealed her invitation & is motherfreakin' HYYYYPE in general)

 

[I.D.]

Oh no, Kos-Mos is going to be a spirit isn’t she?

Condolences to Kos-Mos fans.

There's 0 chance she makes it now so anything she gets, the better. Give me a mii costume, I'll happily buy it.

 

[Dinoman96]

Considering Xenosaga's status as a series, I think KOS-MOS getting the nod in Smash through a Mii outfit or spirit is pretty much a minor miracle in of itself.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

In terms of a Volume 3, they could theoretically do it - there's enough Switch lifetime for about one or two more 2-year long seasons. And it's certainly worth it money-wise, according to Nintendo.

Thing is, from a development perspective, things have stretched out since Smash 4. So in that sense, I can understand why Sakurai and team would want to stop, and I think it's best to take his word for it when he says it's the end.

So basically: I do think it's technically possible, but the chances are really, really low.

I would bet more on an Echo Pack, less time-consuming.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I have zero ideas who any of those peoples are.

But seeing all those peoples getting excited & happy about a character I like make me happy too.

So thank you alot for sharing this.

(also shout-out to Raptor Dude, who went Jurassic Park when Pyra revealed her invitation & is motherfreakin' HYYYYPE in general)

Yeah, I've seen a few of his reactions. He's pretty cool.

Also, tagging SKX31 for this: isn't the burger dude the one who did the 4-hour long Powerpoint presentation stream speculating on Smash characters?

 

[SKX31]

I kinda hope you can’t ”main” one of the two, that was kinda the problem with Zelda/Sheik at times. Like it would be sad if Pyra was just a strictly worse Myrthra.

While we'll have to see, I'll quote Zachmac in the Competitive impressions thread:

As far as one character completely overshadowing the other...I don't think that's likely. Switching is such low commitment that even if one of them only has niche situations where they're useful it's still worth going for. Like if Mythra is better all around but Pyra is slightly better at killing at the ledge...then yeah, why not switch to her when you have your opponent caught in a ledge trap situation? This is unlike Melee and Brawl, where switching in the situations where one might have a slight advantage is a much bigger commitment.

Melee Zelda / Sheik was in a situation where Melee's metagame relies heavily on punishing, as opposed to other Smash games' bigger focus on neutral. Except for 64, which is even more towards punishing opponents for daring to breathe or fart in their general direction. Brief tangent aside, it made transforming even riskier than in say Ultimate: While a poorly thought swap can be punished in all four games, Melee not only has kill confirms (such as s Jab -> Up Smash) but also interactive extension combo strings that can wrack up damage like crazy.

She does see rare screentime (outside of the very few Zelda mains in Melee): sometimes Zelda's used for the disrespect, other times legitimately. MewtwoKing in particular leans towards using Melee Zelda (and Pichu, if he decides to bring out his Pichu it's going to be a ****ing trainwreck) to disrespect his opponent. OTOH, Plup's used Zelda as a legitimate "Surprise ************" option to turn the tides of desperate situations in tournaments. Note that in most situations shown in the video the transformation happens when the player knows it's safe:

One problem Brawl Zelda and Brawl PT had was the animation, where it took a small but noticeable moment for the transformation to actually complete and for the switched-in character to be ready. Which is a problem even in a slower game like Brawl since that's an ample punish opportunity if one anticipates it. It was especially bad for who had to switch in order to avoid fatigue setting in (the Stamina mechanic)... but could only switch on the ground.

While any transformation can be punished if one sees it coming, it's a tad more difficult to punish 's transformations, and likewise Pya's / Mythra's switching will likely be the same. It could be different of course, but I'm not seeing it as likely.

Dunno if someone has posted this yet, but here's the usual "Japan reacts to the new Smash character" video:

I just think it's pretty interesting.

Yeah, I've seen a few of his reactions. He's pretty cool.

Also, tagging SKX31 for this: isn't the burger dude the one who did the 4-hour long Powerpoint presentation stream speculating on Smash characters?

IT IS! YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

JAPANESE HAMBURGLAR RETURNS!

I know it's not even his user name on Nico Nico, but damn, anyone dedicated / mad enough to do a 4 hour Smash Speculation Marathon is S-tier.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So who wants to bet its a matter of time when Papagenos does a video regarding the Concert Leak? Predicting sometime today.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I thought Malos might be the obligatory legendary 4 star spirit for the board but it could be KOS-MOS too with her XBC2 design. It's kinda like how Bahamut ZERO was the 4 star for Sephiroth's board but he was more of a FF legacy character than a FF7 one.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Can't wait for Sakurai's presentation on why he added Pyra and Mythra without Rex.

1. Sakurai: Everyone is the protagonist in Xenoblade 2 and its creator wanted them.
2. Technical difficulties having Rex play with Blades being involved.
3. Pyra & Mythra being chosen as they actually do the fighting.

Those are my bets.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

1. Sakurai: Everyone is the protagonist in Xenoblade 2 and its creator wanted them.
2. Technical difficulties having Rex play with Blades being involved.
3. Pyra & Mythra being chosen as they actually do the fighting.

Those are my bets.

Concert... leak? Do elaborate what this is? I've not heard of it.

Edit: lol wrong comment to reply to but you're still the guy that brought it up, whoops!

 

[Perkilator]

Someone on Twitter made some alts for Pyra/Mythra:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Kokiden]

Does monster hunter count as a jrpg?

Haven't played a monster hunter game, so maybe someone else could answer this?

 

[I.D.]

Considering Xenosaga's status as a series, I think KOS-MOS getting the nod in Smash through a Mii outfit or spirit is pretty much a minor miracle in of itself.

The Zohar is now in Smash. First step of the infiltration already complete.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Concert... leak? Do elaborate what this is? I've not heard of it.

Edit: lol wrong comment to reply but you're still the guy that brought it up, whoops!

Here it is.

/v/ - Video Games » Thread #539627752

arch.b4k.co

With the list of songs it claims Crash and Monster Hunter being the last two fighters.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Or a Mii costume.

If she gets a Mii Costume and she’s Namco...

That means Lloyd Mii could possibly come back too...

 

[Michael the Spikester]

If she gets a Mii Costume and she’s Namco...

That means Lloyd Mii could possibly come back too...

At this point, I'm fairly certain to say he and Monster Hunter are returning as such.

38 out of the 40 Sm4sh Miis have returned. Don't think there's gonna be any exceptions here.