Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Technomage]

Me imagining the FE fandom tearing itself apart alongside the Smash fandom over whether or not Edelgard is a villain or not
View attachment 308057

Forget that; Rhea makes a better representation for Smash villains.

 

[ahemtoday]

Obviously they shoulda just included all of the main 3H characters in one.

Not as a transformation character - they're just all in a big ball of violence the whole time and you control that.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Tell me why.

What's to say? She's easy to make an Echo and pretty much plays like Diddy with a tiny bit of variance. So we're talking Chrom level, an easy Echo.

Diddy was meant to be a partner when he was first created. Look how that turned out; he's easily on his own and seen as DK's partner. Dixie won't have to be seen as partnered only either.

And that happened actually very fast. Dixie took a very very long time to actually have a non-partner-based thing. She wasn't seen as notable to be alone in comparison. Diddy is also the Luigi of the games. Dixie isn't that same role, and got sidelined fast. They're not comparable situations at this point. She clearly was not treated as nearly important.

You even said in your post you meant a future game, and said Transformation wouldn't be feasible in the DLC cycle. Going from "It's too difficult to do transformation in this game due to resources" to "she should be an echo in the next game" when they'll have more resources is contradictory.

It's not contradictory. Making her an Echo next game is easier than spending more resources on her. If it's between that and partner it'd be up to Sakurai which he values more; the mechanic she was meant to have in the first place, or just adding her for the players? Being her upgraded Spirit is still a partner one, the development team behind the Spirits at least sees Partner as relevant to her character. Does Sakurai still? I see no evidence to suggest otherwise. All we know is he wanted Dixie to be a partner character and she has yet to show up outside of Trophies/Spirits/Stickers... and eventually has an evolution into a partner-based spirit. Both combined isn't saying much, but it does look a bit suspicious.

I still think she's most likely a partner character, and the fact she didn't get an Echo spot(which is what they would've had time to do in Ultimate for her, possibly in place of Daisy, honestly. Since Daisy was just a quick one. Though I could see both at this point) is saying something. It doesn't in any way suggest she'd have a chance as a solo semi-clone either. There's absolutely zero things to suggest it ever had a chance. It was either easy development or "choice we want to do". The middle one has no real evidence or logic towards it. "Semi-clone would be nice" isn't based upon logic here.

I'm unconvinced she ever had a remote chance as a semi-clone(alone. Maybe as a partner to Diddy), and I doubt she would've ever been an Echo either(but at least there's a slight chance for it, since she would've had some time to do during development. But if they didn't, that makes it even worse. That she's lower priority even when ease of creation).

If you're still trying to convince me she wouldn't be an Echo, you're barking up the wrong tree. The only legit reason I've seen is she couldn't actually use a restructuring of DK's Up B, but that isn't even true. Which means she's easy as a Chrom-style Echo without issues. The rest have been purely based upon "I wouldn't want this" which has no meaning in what can happen. I'm basing this upon actual development, statements, and how the game works. So I only really see Echo(not that likely) or Partner(most likely) as realistic with the information we currently have.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Its worth noting Dixie's position could also be entirely relative to what potential DK games might come between now and the next Smash (the most realistic title she'd probably get in over being a late DLC for Ultimate). If she plays a prominent role in that and gets new/evolved mechanics in her playstyle as a solo character in a stand out title, then its entirely possible that any devotion to her having to be a partner fighter could very well fade.

 

[Shroob]

Its worth noting Dixie's position could also be entirely relative to what potential DK games might come between now and the next Smash (the most realistic title she'd probably get in over being a late DLC for Ultimate). If she plays a prominent role in that and gets new/evolved mechanics in her playstyle as a solo character in a stand out title, then its entirely possible that any devotion to her having to be a partner fighter could very well fade.

So what you're saying is

DK64...2


With even MORE KONGS


But not Chunky, he's dead.

 

[Ivander]

I really need to get back to and finish Three Houses so I can actually give an opinion about it, but man, it feels like a chore doing the school stuff. Anybody got any good spoiler-free guides for the school stuff?

But yeah, unless they are easy echos for a new FE character or unless Sakurai really wants to use one for a unique moveset, I don't know if Nintendo or Intelligent Systems wants to open the can of worms for the aftermath of picking a House leader for a Smash rep. Sure, the West is more forgiving to Edelgard, but Japan loves Dimitri so much.

 

[Idon]

Personally, I feel that as a gameplay function, Dimitri is IMMENSELY and easily cooler than Edelgard; his animations are the best the series has ever had in terms of 3D and you can really feel Koei Tecmo's Warriors influence in his attack animations:

However, in terms of story importance, it's Byleth/Edelgard or it's nothing. That's why, given an alternate character pick from Byleth, I only see Edelgard. Perhaps in Smash 6 they may reconsider and add her in as a substitute, but I personally doubt it.

 

[PeridotGX]

remember the scene in Far From Home where there was a ****ty tribute to the dead characters? i did that for smash.

 

[SharkLord]

I think one of the perks for Byleth is that they can pull off a more comprehensive representation of the game, being one of the protagonists in all four routes. They're the most neutral path, and choosing one Lord would seem like favoritism.

To address the original post about Sakurai choosing the plot-important secondary option, it should be noted that Pyra was both A: The backup because a Rex and Blades combo would've been too much for the game to handle, and B: Pyra was still one-half of the original plan, as it would've been her and Rex working together. It seems like Byleth would've been just Byleth, so a backup plan wasn't necessary from a processing standpoint.

 

[kylexv]

The only rule to Smash Speculation is that there are no rules:

Spoiler: Jontron

 

[3BitSaurus]

Do you not know, Lord of Sharks, that in order to disable the AT... well...

It turns out Xenahort actually managed to capture Sakurai's Nobody, and is holding him hostage over Sakurai's refusal to send Xenahort an invite to Smash. Especially when Sakurai sent an invite to a pretty white-haired boi who Xenahort somehow missed when his own nobody dealt with Sora. So, he used Sakurai's Nobody to lock the ATs disabled in place not just so he could prep his attack on Fodlan, but also so that he could tie Sakurai's Nobody to a Meteor and "accidentally" drop the spell somewhere in Duckburg. Why Duckburg? Well, not only does several of Mickey's allies - well, a version of their allies anyway - live there, but also something about that world's Keyhole being connected to a galaxy far far away for some reason and Xenahort just naturally could connect to a certain force for some bull**** reason...

Leading Sephiroth and Darth Vader on a collision course in Duckburg. So yeah, in order to disable the AT, you'd have to fight both Sephiroth and Vader in Duckburg before the Meteor spell blows up the place faster than Sonic - who's also trapped there for some reason - can say "BLOWS UP?!"

And even then, disabling the AT is not only part of Xenahort's plan somehow. this is also part 3 / 16 of Xenahort's Completely-Foolproof-and-not-at-all-Idiotic-Plan (and yes, I'll complete the entire thing, just to discover there's a part XVII: Chain of Deluxe 358 Days fawning over Disneyworld).

(Previous parts of this ****post that could actually be Kingdom Hearts V.)

Vader? Uh, is this before or after the KH spinoff with him in Soulcalibur? I've had a theory that Soul Edge is an Aegis, which would explain Shulk's presence in the story, too.

Well, that, and I've yet to play any of the parts set on the Star Wars universe, because even though it's canon, they're still paid DLC for a flip phone game - the former was EA's idea and the latter was Nomura's, apparently. So pardon my confusion.

 

[Idon]

remember the scene in Far From Home where there was a ****ty tribute to the dead characters? i did that for smash.

10/10, just the right amount of quality this thread deserves.

 

[Shroob]

10/10, just the right amount of quality this thread deserves.

No, even this is too high quality.

Where's the 244p?

 

[Technomage]

The only rule to Smash Speculation is that there are no rules:

Spoiler: Jontron

You forgot the "no non-game characters" rule.

 

[chocolatejr9]

You forgot the "no non-game characters" rule.

And the "good boys and girls" rule.

What? Pyra got censored for no reason...

 

[PeridotGX]

No, even this is too high quality.

Where's the 244p?

they didn't give me the option.

besides, i feel like that might be overdoing it a bit. i was worried "bandana waffle dee" was too much.

 

[Ivander]

Personally, I feel that as a gameplay function, Dimitri is IMMENSELY and easily cooler than Edelgard; his animations are the best the series has ever had in terms of 3D and you can really feel Koei Tecmo's Warriors influence in his attack animations:



However, in terms of story importance, it's Byleth/Edelgard or it's nothing. That's why, given an alternate character pick from Byleth, I only see Edelgard. Perhaps in Smash 6 they may reconsider and add her in as a substitute, but I personally doubt it.

I mean, Dimitri does have three points in his favor. One, his moveset would be original just by the spear alone. Two, Japan loves him. What's three? Well, Maximilian Dood did point out how Sakurai seems to like characters who tend to be cool and edgy, like Iori Yagami and Navarre(who's in Brawl and Ultimate as a sticker and Spirit respectively).

All that aside, I don't know if Edelgard or Dimitri will appear in the next Smash. The next Fire Emblem game will have come out before then and unless it's a Three House sequel, the next Fire Emblem character will likely be a character from the newest game. Sure, the same was said about Fire Emblem Echoes, but at least it was explained why because Chrom was heavily requested in the Smash Ballot. Unless another Ballot happens soon, which I doubt, Edelgard and Dimitri(and Claude) may have lost their chance at Smash Bros.

 

[ShrimpScampi]

they didn't give me the option.

besides, i feel like that might be overdoing it a bit. i was worried "bandana waffle dee" was too much.

Too much? No, we need to go even farther

banana waffle dee

 

[Idon]

I mean, Dimitri does have three points in his favor. One, his moveset would be original just by the spear alone. Two, Japan loves him. What's three? Well, Maximilian Dood did point out how Sakurai seems to like characters who tend to be cool and edgy, like Iori Yagami and Navarre(who's in Brawl and Ultimate as a sticker and Spirit respectively).

All that aside, I don't know if Edelgard or Dimitri will appear in the next Smash. The next Fire Emblem game will have come out before then and unless it's a Three House sequel, the next Fire Emblem character will likely be a character from the newest game. Sure, the same was said about Fire Emblem Echoes, but at least it was explained why because Chrom was heavily requested in the Smash Ballot. Unless another Ballot happens soon, which I doubt, Edelgard and Dimitri(and Claude) may have lost their chance at Smash Bros.

They won't appear, obviously.

Byleth has Incumbency Advantage and is "the" FE3H representative at this point. It's either him or worst case, no one.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I mean, Dimitri does have three points in his favor. One, his moveset would be original just by the spear alone. Two, Japan loves him. What's three? Well, Maximilian Dood did point out how Sakurai seems to like characters who tend to be cool and edgy, like Iori Yagami and Navarre(who's in Brawl and Ultimate as a sticker and Spirit respectively).

All that aside, I don't know if Edelgard or Dimitri will appear in the next Smash. The next Fire Emblem game will have come out before then and unless it's a Three House sequel, the next Fire Emblem character will likely be a character from the newest game. Sure, the same was said about Fire Emblem Echoes, but at least it was explained why because Chrom was heavily requested in the Smash Ballot. Unless another Ballot happens soon, which I doubt, Edelgard and Dimitri(and Claude) may have lost their chance at Smash Bros.

Welp, time to petition for another Smash Ballot...

 

[ZephyrZ]

It's still odd to me that with all the FE characters we have, we still don't have a villain from that franchise. That's another reason Edelgard was a missed oppurtunity, I suppose.

Now excuse me while I hide in a bunker to avoid all the Black Eagles who think Edelgard doesn't count as a villain.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Welp, time to petition for another Smash Ballot...

Do not bring that evil upon us!!

 

[Perkilator]

1996年のきょう『星のカービィ スーパーデラックス』(Kirby Super Star)発売!!
私のディレクター三作目。
ここでコピー帽子を導入したため、後のスマブラ制作で苦労することに…。自業自得?
でもキャラクターの魅力は増すし。スタッフのみなさま、つきあわせてごめんなさい。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/OeQ7SbnEiw

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) March 21, 2021

POTD

 

[chocolatejr9]

Do not bring that evil upon us!!

Too late, the evil has begun its descent...

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Welp, time to petition for another Smash Ballot...

You fool! All it will do is be used for the next smash game and leave a bunch of people upsetti spaghetti when it ends on two lukewarm choices.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'll be blunt...

Edelgard might be the first character I'd actively campaign against.

People's insistence that she isnt a villain is... a little infuriating.

Byleth, Dimitri and Claude though, they're cool.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

1996年のきょう『星のカービィ スーパーデラックス』(Kirby Super Star)発売!!
私のディレクター三作目。
ここでコピー帽子を導入したため、後のスマブラ制作で苦労することに…。自業自得?
でもキャラクターの魅力は増すし。スタッフのみなさま、つきあわせてごめんなさい。#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/OeQ7SbnEiw

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) March 21, 2021

POTD

Amazing that even as late as 1996, we were still getting notable titles like Super Star which not not only gave Bandana Dee his debut but also created the modern and most enduring gameplay execution of Kirby (even if it took an entire decade plus of various experiments in the aughs before Nintendo and HAL finally went back to it with full force via Return to Dreamland.

 

[chocolatejr9]

You fool! All it will do is be used for the next smash game and leave a bunch of people upsetti spaghetti when it ends on two lukewarm choices.

So you concede that one of the last two choices is a first party?

HA! Walked right into that one! Even though that has nothing to do with anything...

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I'll be blunt...

Edelgard might be the first character I'd actively campaign against.

People's insistence that she isnt a villain is... a little infuriating.

Byleth, Dimitri and Claude though, they're cool.

I mean, I would have chosen her for smash over Byleth because she is objectively an antagonist.

Spoiler

Even if you consider that TWSID and the Church are messed up in their own ways, Edelgard is the primary instigator of the conflict in the game. In order to achieve the changes to Fodlan she seeks, she is willing to plunge the world into chaos to reshape it to her will. If you don't go CF (which should have been 3 chapters longer :/ ), the Empire is the main antagonist up until the climax of the game. If you do go the empire, you are the aggressor attacking the Alliance and the Holy Kingdom. By all intensive purposes, she counts as an antagonist.

It also helps that unlike Byleth, Edelgard is an actual character. Not having Byleth show any emotion throughout the game or any supports makes Byleth feel like an empty vessel in the worst ways. Edelgard I would have chosen over Byleth any day.

TLDR **** Byleth, would have chosen Edelgard (or honestly any of the lords) over them, especially the one that is the main antagonist for most of the game

So you concede that one of the last two choices is a first party?

HA! Walked right into that one! Even though that has nothing to do with anything...

You fool, just because it is lukewarm does not mean it has to be first party. Just look at Bayonetta.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

TCT~Phantom you uh kinda double posted there buddy

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I mean, I would have chosen her for smash over Byleth because she is objectively an antagonist.

Spoiler

Even if you consider that TWSID and the Church are messed up in their own ways, Edelgard is the primary instigator of the conflict in the game. In order to achieve the changes to Fodlan she seeks, she is willing to plunge the world into chaos to reshape it to her will. If you don't go CF (which should have been 3 chapters longer :/ ), the Empire is the main antagonist up until the climax of the game. If you do go the empire, you are the aggressor attacking the Alliance and the Holy Kingdom. By all intensive purposes, she counts as an antagonist.

It also helps that unlike Byleth, Edelgard is an actual character. Not having Byleth show any emotion throughout the game or any supports makes Byleth feel like an empty vessel in the worst ways. Edelgard I would have chosen over Byleth any day.

TLDR **** Byleth, would have chosen Edelgard (or honestly any of the lords) over them, especially the one that is the main antagonist for most of the game

I'll be frank. It's more of a personal thing. I've had some frustrating experiences with people who insist she is 100% in the right and a hero and it bugs me to no end.

I'd rather not have her, because even Corrin and the Fates cast don't have that baggage for me.

Plus, Byleth is cool. Their moveset is one of the more fun ones imo. The weapon master concept is a perfect fit for them and it meshes with my playstyle perfectly.

 

[Ivander]

It's still odd to me that with all the FE characters we have, we still don't have a villain from that franchise. That's another reason Edelgard was a missed oppurtunity, I suppose.

We do have Black Knight technically, due to his role as an Assist Trophy. But the thing is that before Three Houses, none of the villains/antagonists aside from Medeus, Gharnef, Black Knight, Grima and maybe Nergal and Arvis have any sort of notability.

• Medeus is the first Dragon antagonist that started the Dragon villain archetype like Duma, Loptyr, Idunn, the Fire Dragons, Grima and Anankos, with some variations in Fomortiis and Ashera.
• Gharnef is the start of the cult villain archetype for so many FE games, like Jedah, Manfroy, Veld, Nergal, Riev and Validar, with a big variation in Sephiran.
• Black Knight is practically the sworn enemy and rival of Ike and is notable for his powerful entrance and the stage where he was nigh invincible and yet was capable of getting close to your units and killing them.
• Grima is practically the only other known Dragon antagonist that has some popularity for their design and role. And to alot of people who started with Awakening, he was their first final boss and notable villain.
• Nergal isn't exactly notable, but he has some notability for, like Grima, being the first Fire Emblem main villain for many people who played Fire Emblem GBA/Blazing Sword in the West.
• Arvis would have alot of notability and popularity if his game ever came out to the West. He's the first Edelgard and IS actually based Edelgard from Arvis.

None of the other villains really get any looks because they are either a template of Medeus/Gharnef/Hardin or are very boring, like Garon. It wasn't until Three Houses where a villain/antagonist actually has popularity. The only villain who'd probably get more popularity than any of the mentioned above is Arvis if his game actually came out to the West because he was the first antagonist to do some really dark stuff and yet have some actual character than just "For evilz! or "Humans suck...".

 

[Idon]

I'll be blunt...

Edelgard might be the first character I'd actively campaign against.

People's insistence that she isnt a villain is... a little infuriating.

Byleth, Dimitri and Claude though, they're cool.

Take it from the guy who created and owns the Dimitri Alexandre Blaiddyd thread,

Edelgard being a villain is precisely why I would've preferred her over the safe option that was Byleth.

 

[chocolatejr9]

You fool, just because it is lukewarm does not mean it has to be first party. Just look at Bayonetta.

OBJECTION!

According to the Smash fandom, the only hype picks are the third party ones. Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra are all constantly criticised for simply being in the game. Therefore...

slams desk and points dramatically

How can a third party pick constitute as lukewarm!?!?!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

OBJECTION!

According to the Smash fandom, the only hype picks are the third party ones. Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra are all constantly criticised for simply being in the game. Therefore...

slams desk and points dramatically

How can a third party pick constitute as lukewarm!?!?!

Jonesy would probably be the most lukewarm option possible.

And I don't think Bayonetta could be considered lukewarm. Reception was very positive on reveal.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

OBJECTION!

According to the Smash fandom, the only hype picks are the third party ones. Byleth, Min Min, and Pyra are all constantly criticised for simply being in the game. Therefore...

slams desk and points dramatically

How can a third party pick constitute as lukewarm!?!?!

You seem to be missing the forest for the trees. The only one of those that has had a truly icy reception so far has been Byleth. While you have some people saying Min Min and Pyra are wasted slots, it is not that much less than people saying Joker or Terry were wasted slots when they were revealed. However, the real crux of this is with Bayonetta. Reception on Bayonetta on reveal was more or less...numb. After Cloud's reveal and the anger Corrin brough minutes before, Bayonetta's reveal was met at best with faint praise. Once people got their hands on the character, that reception grew worse.

TCT~Phantom you uh kinda double posted there buddy

Yeah, thats on my end. Saw the more posts thing at the bottom and thought that more people posted.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I'll be blunt...

Edelgard might be the first character I'd actively campaign against.

People's insistence that she isnt a villain is... a little infuriating.

Byleth, Dimitri and Claude though, they're cool.

“Well from my point of view the Church is evil.”

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Byleth, Dimitri and Claude though, they're cool.

Good taste but for real though all Dimitri wanted was Justice and all Claude wanted was just for everyone to get along

 

[Perkilator]

• Grima is practically the only other known Dragon antagonist that has some popularity for their design and role. And to alot of people who started with Awakening, he was their first final boss and notable villain

Speaking of, I was thinking Grima’s could be a boss where you fight the Fell Robin on top of the dragon’s back.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

“Well from my point of view the Church is evil.”

Edelgard and Rhea are both evil.

That's the point.