Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[chocolatejr9]

Oh c'mon, it's not like the angry spirit of the leak is gonna rise from the grave and grab us if we speak its name, watch, I'll do it.


Cacomallow!
Cacomallow!
Cacom----



Cacamallow is real! can be heard in the distance

Me when I hear Cacomallow:

 

[Perkilator]

I don't want to get into yet another AT debate - We've made our points quite clear by now - But I will say that ATs can just be disabled if they're made playable. They do that with stage cameos, and ATs are already turned off on certain stages, where their respective mechanics would interfere with each other.

People really still think this logic would be 1:1 with a fighter?

 

[Otoad64]

People really still think this logic would be 1:1 with a fighter?

what do you mean?

 

[SharkLord]

People really still think this logic would be 1:1 with a fighter?

Yes.

If stage=greenHillZone, disable assistTrophy: chucklesEnchilada
If fighter=chucklesEnchilada, disable assistTrophy: chucklesEnchilada

This is just a standard "Defeat evil overlord" story, not Kingdom Hearts

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yes.

If stage=greenHillZone, disable assistTrophy: chucklesEnchilada
If fighter=chucklesEnchilada, disable assistTrophy: chucklesEnchilada

This is just a standard "Defeat evil overlord" story, not Kingdom Hearts

Perkilator must think they spend more time making it difficult to make an AT a DLC fighter than on an AT's three or so moves.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The guy who made the Michael Jackson Dancing Simulator made another... uh.... work of art.

I admire the effort it took to get that many models though.

 

[Arcadenik]

I agree that almost every other Kong would be preferable to have in Smash Bros., but even I would admit that there are some possibilities that are interesting. For example, in BirthNote 's support thread for Dixie, the original post contains a particularly clever implementation of Kiddy Kong in Arcadenik 's moveset. He does not appear by 'wasting' a newcomer slot, is given a chance for recognition, and makes for a new tag-team character.

I am glad you liked that. Thank you.

 

[BirthNote]

Rex's complication was having him onscreen all the time. And he's a lot more active than Pokemon Trainer with what they talked of.

Dixie/Kiddy as a Barrel Switch Out Mechanic? That's as complicated as a regular Transformation only. It's only them teaming up that may be, but if it's for a few moves instead, it's nowhere near what Ice Climbers are.

Though honestly I think that's still what he's going for. It feels a bit too weird Dixie has yet to be playable, but having a complicated transformation mechanic would make a lot of sense to why she's not there yet. It's not easy to implement right. It's literally why she was scrapped in Brawl, and there's no way it'd work for For(3DS issues), and in Ultimate, King K. Rool also was way easier to implement, making her an easy case of lower priority. Semi-clone would take a lot longer to do than an Echo, of course, and an Echo isn't on the table either if she is specifically meant to be a Tag Team/Transformation(in terms of how gameplay works) character anyway. Semi-clone wouldn't be any different, because that would still exist if she's teamed up with Kiddy. In addition, do note that Pyra and Mythra are actual clones of each other, so if Dixie and Kiddy don't play a lot alike, then it would've taken even longer. PT is only really an exception due to being a veteran and the movesets still could be transferred over properly(since he had the concept done a long time ago). I feel like an Echo may be her best shot next game if he can't get any Transformation stuff to work as he wants. Though to be fair, Pyra/Mythra may have taken too much time if they were actual semi-clones/more unique because of the DLC window being smaller than base game development-wise. But they're our first new Transformation character, so who knows what it means. I don't remember Kiddy that much, though. Like, I don't really remember if he was similar to DK? I know Dixie and Diddy play a lot alike to begin with.

Well if they can't get the Transformation to work they might as well make her solo, but unique. She's got 3 main games of material to work with and movesets can be made from anything lol.

That's also my preferred combo, but there's no... real reason behind it other than they're both more popular than Kiddy. Sure, they both have done tag teams in the past, but it's just taking massive liberties for the sake of it. It wouldn't be bad by any means, but there's not much reason why it would happen. If Dixie would team up with someone, it'd be someone who she's known for teaming up with. That's pretty much Diddy and Kiddy at this point.

Also, Kiddy is actually fairly popular on his own. Though Chunky, his brother, is a lot more loved due to being actually funnier/more interesting. That, and DK64 has some great animations/voices/idles.

Honestly, Dixie and Diddy have only been paired once; Dixie and Kiddy have only been paired once, while Dixie and DK have only been paired once. The only Kong who gets paired up with Diddy all the time is DK. We got 3 DKCs, the Mario spinoffs and Double Dash. Why pair her up with someone who's been partnered with her once, who also is far more often to be paired with DK?

 

[Louie G.]

People really still think this logic would be 1:1 with a fighter?

I mean, I had someone tell me yesterday Tails couldn’t happen specifically because he runs from one side of the screen to the other in the background of Green Hill Zone. Alfonso should have unironically shown everyone how simple this solution is (I remember when people genuinely believed Toon Link was out of commission for Smash 4).

There’s more logic in a simple change of code than there is assuming Sakurai would outright discount a character because they’re an incidental background element from a returning stage.

My stance on ATs is a bit more complex though, because I do think the team still treats ATs as an honor. The community doesn’t see it that way, but I feel strongly about that being the case.

I think it could feasibly change if there was a pressing need, but I think Sakurai is probably content with the ATs in the same way he is with say, Metal Face as a stage boss or KK Slider as a prominent stage element. Not to say those characters have the same push as Waluigi or something but you get the idea. They’re a more significant part of gameplay that got a good deal of direct love and attention.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I mean, I had someone tell me yesterday Tails couldn’t happen specifically because he runs from one side of the screen to the other in the background of Green Hill Zone.

There’s more logic in a simple change of code than there is assuming Sakurai would outright discount a character because they’re an incidental background element from a returning stage.

Did someone forget about Alfonzo Is In Charge? (Not that I think Tails is getting in anyway since he has a DLC costume)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well if they can't get the Transformation to work they might as well make her solo, but unique. She's got 3 main games of material to work with and movesets can be made from anything lol.

Maybe. But I don't see any issue with her being an Echo either.

Honestly, Dixie and Diddy have only been paired once; Dixie and Kiddy have only been paired once, while Dixie and DK have only been paired once. The only Kong who gets paired up with Diddy all the time is DK. We got 3 DKCs, the Mario spinoffs and Double Dash. Why pair her up with someone who's been partnered with her once, who also is far more often to be paired with DK?

And? She was literally meant to be paired with someone as a concept yet can't make it in solo when she'd be a lot easier. It's still not a thing. She's been very heavily based around the partner concept too. Diddy split off a lot faster as well.

I don't see why she'd be solo at this point when there's really nothing to suggest it'd be in the cards. It still looks pretty much like it's been partner or nothing in her case. Keep in mind she wasn't solo till after Brawl existed either, and yet he still has shown nothing to suggest she could be alone in Smash. Her only chance would've been in For due to being split off from Diddy due to the 3DS. And that assumes they wouldn't have been recombined. Since she plays heavily like Diddy, I doubt she'd have been cut in For instead of getting her own slot, like the rest of Pokemon Trainer(since she'd be easy to make compared to unique ones, who take longer. Though she's nowhere near as important as Diddy, like Squirtle and Ivysaur are definitely not Charizard's level, so it wouldn't be impossible). She's been unlucky, but who knows how good her luck would've been if she did make it into Brawl. Also, Sakurai doesn't usually scrap entire concepts if he's tried to make them playable. His concept is good, and Dixie is reasonably known for having a partner(I do agree it's only at best awkward sticking her with Cranky. But Kiddy? Not even close).

 

[7NATOR]

You didn't really address the assist trophy argument, though. Assist trophies, much like DLC Mii costumes (at least for characters who aren't already playable) have consistently been treated like consolation prizes since they were first introduced. (which, in the case of assist trophies, was over a decade ago - the picture's not from when assist trophies were introduced, but it helps to show that being an assist trophy means that a character won't be playable in the same game)

There's no guarantee that we'll even get an assist trophy promoted to playable through DLC, and the fact that we got Min Min over Spring Man (much like Pyra/Mythra over Rex) seems to be a sign that it might not be happening. (I'm sure the argument could be made that ARMS's producer said "everyone's a protagonist", but Spring Man being the face of ARMS, an assist trophy in Smash, and not even being considered for a playable role in Smash's DLC seems pretty damning from my perspective - from what Sakurai said, the choice was between Min Min and Ninjara)

I did address it many times,

-This Waluigi picture has multiple impetrations. You can read it as saying that Waluigi is unplayable because he's an Assist, You can read it as Waluigi being unplayable for specific reasons, and then being made an Assist because he was Unplayable. There's also the fact that Sakurai might have wanted to make sure people aren't confused that Waluigi is Unplayable. he did this with Skull Kid and Ashley as an example

This also doesn't take into account that DLC likely wasn't Planned for Smash 4 at this point. Just like the point about how Ultimate's DLC was said not to be Decided to be a thing till sometime after January of 2018, when the base game content was set in stone, might have been the same deal here

The thing to take into account is that the situation with Smash 4 and Ultimate is a different story. Smash 4 didn't have this much extension on it's DLC, since Ultimate has FP2.

I think the Important thing is that Sakurai never addressed the Assist Trophy thing, when he could have on Multiple occasions. He made sure to reiterate the no Manga character rule as an example

And I think each Assist trophy is in a different scenario. I think a Problem is that people look at Every Assist trophy and assume the situations are the same, when I think there could be reason to believe that's not the case. Regarding Spring Man, they might have already had the idea he wasn't gonna be chosen, so they may have made him the Assist cause they knew it was between Min Min and Ninjara. It also helps that Spring Man was newly introduced in this game, so it wouldn't have been weird if he wasn't an Assist

Shadow is a veteran Assist, so his absence would have been weird, and they probably negotiated for the Assist before DLC was decided to be a thing sometime around January of 2018. We also see that with the fact they even still had ARMS Content and Xenoblade Chronicles 2 content in base game that FP2 wasn't a sure thing that was gonna be developed.

I refute this because Shadow was a clear favorite all throughout base game speculation, many people pretty much considering him a lock as an echo fighter.

Perhaps you interpreted people’s expectations being regulated to echo fighter as an “agenda” against him, but you have to remember what the situation was at the time. There was no precedent for adding fully unique second “reps” from third parties with a character already in the game. We got Richter though, which got people thinking about other third parties - namely Ken and Shadow.

Like it or not, Shadow fits an echo role pretty well at face value. Maybe he could get a new Up B like Chrom and a new Final Smash, but otherwise Shadow is a literal clone of Sonic and is capable of pretty much everything he can do. I personally think Shadow ought to be a Luigi or Wolf esque derivative if anything, but you can’t blame people for trying to be realistic. It was really the only chance he had.

And then most people just take Assist Trophies at face value and believe those characters are out of the running until next time. You really can’t fault people for that, it’s very much an “I’ll believe it when I see it” deal where there’s zero precedent to expect AT promotions right now and no clear reason to pick Shadow specifically.

Richter was breaking Precedent by himself though, just being in the game. Shadow could have broken precedent being the 1st unique secondary 3rd party character in Base roster as well. I thought this was especially true with Isabelle showing that Semi-Clone type characters were still a thing.

But I do get what you mean. People just followed the Precedent set at the time, and to be fair this precedent did last up until Sephiroth in FP2, and I know many people weren't even looking at his Direction (I was though, but he was not active prediction when he got in)

But honestly, I could tell that even if it was proven that 3rd parties could get Unique characters, just based of the responses I've gotten even back then, people would still say that Shadow could only be an echo. even among people that might believe the Assist trophy thing is not an obstacle, that's still a saying that's ingrained in the brain

I do know that Shadow does work as an Echo, and if he really didn't have the merits to be his own fighter, than I would think the Echo Fighter was more likely. The thing is that he does have his own Merits to be his own Fighter, even over Eggman and Tails, but people choose to ignore it or not give it the time of day

But I don't have a problem with people that Expect Eggman or Tails (even Knuckles) over Shadow, since they all have their reasons to be in. I still think there's an Agenda though, because if you look at the responses after the Base game speculation ended, you see way too many times about how "Shadow was such an easy Echo to add in and Sega must have messed something up". People many times say Shadow was deconfirmed again when they said no Echo Fighters.

So when I see people, even people that do believe Assist Promotions are possible, not give Shadow the time of day when he's more recognizable than Sephiroth even, and he's been a Popular request for years and years, It does make me think there is an agenda, but I don't think there's an agenda going on if someone thinks Eggman and Tails would get in, because it's focused on Eggman and Tails merits, not downplaying Shadow's merits

 

[SNEKeater]

Idk, a tag team fighter has potential to be very cool, but I'd still rather have Dixie by herself. Even as an echo.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As far as Dixie, its hard to genuinely know if her lack of inclusion is due to lack of interest in her overall or a developer attachment to the idea of her as a partner character. Conceptually there's plenty you can do with her without being paired up with Kiddy or even an echo/clone of Diddy. The DKC series has lot of mechanics (Kong POW, animal buddies, Dixie's hair) that are completely under explored in Smash and could easily be utilized for her.

Gun to my head I'd prefer her being in as a partner character with the likes of Kiddy over nothing, but I never once thought that was the only way to make her stand out as a fighter.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Every time I see an update on this, I smile wickedly inside.

 

[7NATOR]

As far as Dixie, its hard to genuinely know if her lack of inclusion is due to lack of interest in her overall or a developer attachment to the idea of her as a partner character. Conceptually there's plenty you can do with her without being paired up with Kiddy or even an echo/clone of Diddy. The DKC series has lot of mechanics (Kong POW, animal buddies, Dixie's hair) that are completely under explored in Smash and could easily be utilized for her.

Gun to my head I'd prefer her being in a partner character with the likes of Kiddy over nothing, but I never once thought that was the only way to make her stand out as a fighter.

I think if her upgraded spirit is any indication, it's the Latter

 

[Shroob]

I'm all for the idea of Assists being upgraded.


I just don't expect it to happen at this point, especially with 2 characters next, and the next one being the June reveal.


Could it happen? Sure. But I personally don't expect it. I could be wrong, I could be very wrong, but it's just not something I'm banking on.

 

[cashregister9]

Every time I see an update on this, I smile wickedly inside.

I'm gonna be honest a lot of these things seem made up, overblown or only a very small amount of people said it.

A lot of this DLC is groundbreaking no one needs to make up fake arguments to prove that.

 

[7NATOR]

I'm all for the idea of Assists being upgraded.


I just don't expect it to happen at this point, especially with 2 characters next, and the next one being the June reveal.


Could it happen? Sure. But I personally don't expect it. I could be wrong, I could be very wrong, but it's just not something I'm banking on.

Do you expect your Fire Theory to continue on with these next 2 Characters?

 

[Shroob]

Do you expect your Fire Theory to continue on with these next 2 Characters?

No, it's a ****post, lol.

 

[Idon]

Personally I'm a fan of Humanoid Theory, in that every DLC character EVER will be humanoid in shape.

So far haven't been proved wrong yet.

 

[Technomage]

Every time I see an update on this, I smile wickedly inside.

Now we just need Sakurai to debunk the "no promoted ATs" theory, though there's also the theory of "third-parties cannot have more than 3 chars"; I'd personally want that debunked, since it made me lose some hope in some characters.

 

[Shroob]

Personally I'm a fan of Humanoid Theory, in that every DLC character EVER will be humanoid in shape.

So far haven't been proved wrong yet.
View attachment 308042

Plant.

Checkmate, ath-----wait ****ing **** it has feet.

 

[ahemtoday]

Plot twist: The leak is quite literally just a well-done steak as a fighter. That's it, that's the leak.

Nah, the Paper Mario series got deconfirmed by that spirit event a while back.

 

[Idon]

Plant.

Checkmate, ath-----wait *ing * it has feet.

Fine... every DLC character that Nintendo actually expects people to pay for.

 

[cashregister9]

No, it's a ****post, lol.

Personally I'm a fan of Humanoid Theory, in that every DLC character EVER will be humanoid in shape.

So far haven't been proved wrong yet.
View attachment 308042

ESTELLE WINS AGAIN!1!1!

 

[7NATOR]

Now we just need Sakurai to debunk the "no promoted ATs" theory, though there's also the theory of "third-parties cannot have more than 3 chars"; I'd personally want that debunked, since it made me lose some hope in some characters.

I thought that was some type of joke. Are People actually serious with this?

This doesn't make that much logical sense. If anything if Square, Sega, Capcom willing to give more characters, I'm sure they Nintendo would want to continue using the well of I.Ps they have

though I will say, it is a neat pattern going on with only 3 currently per Company. yes

 

[SKX31]

Yes.

If stage=greenHillZone, disable assistTrophy: chucklesEnchilada
If fighter=chucklesEnchilada, disable assistTrophy: chucklesEnchilada

This is just a standard "Defeat evil overlord" story, not Kingdom Hearts

Do you not know, Lord of Sharks, that in order to disable the AT... well...

It turns out Xenahort actually managed to capture Sakurai's Nobody, and is holding him hostage over Sakurai's refusal to send Xenahort an invite to Smash. Especially when Sakurai sent an invite to a pretty white-haired boi who Xenahort somehow missed when his own nobody dealt with Sora. So, he used Sakurai's Nobody to lock the ATs disabled in place not just so he could prep his attack on Fodlan, but also so that he could tie Sakurai's Nobody to a Meteor and "accidentally" drop the spell somewhere in Duckburg. Why Duckburg? Well, not only does several of Mickey's allies - well, a version of their allies anyway - live there, but also something about that world's Keyhole being connected to a galaxy far far away for some reason and Xenahort just naturally could connect to a certain force for some bull**** reason...

Leading Sephiroth and Darth Vader on a collision course in Duckburg. So yeah, in order to disable the AT, you'd have to fight both Sephiroth and Vader in Duckburg before the Meteor spell blows up the place faster than Sonic - who's also trapped there for some reason - can say "BLOWS UP?!"

And even then, disabling the AT is not only part of Xenahort's plan somehow. this is also part 3 / 16 of Xenahort's Completely-Foolproof-and-not-at-all-Idiotic-Plan (and yes, I'll complete the entire thing, just to discover there's a part XVII: Chain of Deluxe 358 Days fawning over Disneyworld).

(Previous parts of this ****post that could actually be Kingdom Hearts V.)

I'm all for the idea of Assists being upgraded.


I just don't expect it to happen at this point, especially with 2 characters next, and the next one being the June reveal.


Could it happen? Sure. But I personally don't expect it. I could be wrong, I could be very wrong, but it's just not something I'm banking on.

That's honestly where I stand on ATs, especially considering... well... They've not been a priority for an upgrade.

Sure, it could still happen, but I'm not feeling confident on the matter when the majority of DLC (regardless of whether FP3 happens or not) has been released with no AT upgrade in sight. There's also the matter of priority, such as with Spring Man when "Everyone is the protagonist!" kinda dented his chances some.

But, in the end, we'll just have to see.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Yes.

If stage=greenHillZone, disable assistTrophy: chucklesEnchilada
If fighter=chucklesEnchilada, disable assistTrophy: chucklesEnchilada

This is just a standard "Defeat evil overlord" story, not Kingdom Hearts

Well too bad man, this IS KINGDOM HEARTS.

Where did you think Cloud and Seph went after their encounter in the Second Game? Nomura OBVIOUSLY planned it in advance.

 

[BirthNote]

Maybe. But I don't see any issue with her being an Echo either.

Tell me why.

And? She was literally meant to be paired with someone as a concept yet can't make it in solo when she'd be a lot easier. It's still not a thing. She's been very heavily based around the partner concept too. Diddy split off a lot faster as well.

Diddy was meant to be a partner when he was first created. Look how that turned out; he's easily on his own and seen as DK's partner. Dixie won't have to be seen as partnered only either.

I don't see why she'd be solo at this point when there's really nothing to suggest it'd be in the cards. It still looks pretty much like it's been partner or nothing in her case. Keep in mind she wasn't solo till after Brawl existed either, and yet he still has shown nothing to suggest she could be alone in Smash. Her only chance would've been in For due to being split off from Diddy due to the 3DS. And that assumes they wouldn't have been recombined. Since she plays heavily like Diddy, I doubt she'd have been cut in For instead of getting her own slot, like the rest of Pokemon Trainer(since she'd be easy to make compared to unique ones, who take longer. Though she's nowhere near as important as Diddy, like Squirtle and Ivysaur are definitely not Charizard's level, so it wouldn't be impossible). She's been unlucky, but who knows how good her luck would've been if she did make it into Brawl. Also, Sakurai doesn't usually scrap entire concepts if he's tried to make them playable. His concept is good, and Dixie is reasonably known for having a partner(I do agree it's only at best awkward sticking her with Cranky. But Kiddy? Not even close).

You even said in your post you meant a future game, and said Transformation wouldn't be feasible in the DLC cycle. Going from "It's too difficult to do transformation in this game due to resources" to "she should be an echo in the next game" when they'll have more resources is contradictory.

 

[Guynamednelson]

It turns out Xenahort actually managed to capture Sakurai's Nobody, and is holding him hostage over Sakurai's refusal to send Xenahort an invite to Smash. Especially when Sakurai sent an invite to a pretty white-haired boi who Xenahort somehow missed when his own nobody dealt with Sora. So, he used Sakurai's Nobody to lock the ATs disabled in place not just so he could prep his attack on Fodlan, but also so that he could tie Sakurai's Nobody to a Meteor and "accidentally" drop the spell somewhere in Duckburg. Why Duckburg? Well, not only does several of Mickey's allies - well, a version of their allies anyway - live there, but also something about that world's Keyhole being connected to a galaxy far far away for some reason and Xenahort just naturally could connect to a certain force for some bull**** reason...

Leading Sephiroth and Darth Vader on a collision course in Duckburg. So yeah, in order to disable the AT, you'd have to fight both Sephiroth and Vader in Duckburg before the Meteor spell blows up the place faster than Sonic - who's also trapped there for some reason - can say "BLOWS UP?!"

And even then, disabling the AT is not only part of Xenahort's plan somehow. this is also part 3 / 16 of Xenahort's Completely-Foolproof-and-not-at-all-Idiotic-Plan (and yes, I'll complete the entire thing, just to discover there's a part XVII: Chain of Deluxe 358 Days fawning over Disneyworld).

You see, turns out, Eeyore...

...is the one really pulling the strings on this plan to promote an AT. By promoting Excitebike, Vince, Isaac, and Lyn in that order, he will spell out EVIL, thus sending a signal to Mr. Burns to assemble the Infinity Gauntlet so the Third Death Star can finally be completed. Once that is completed, they will fire a laser targeted at Quahog, Rhode Island, which Peter Griffin will defeat by having a flashback to a time he deflected a laser towards the Muppet Theater. This will then awaken the Predator, which Indiana Jones will have to defeat by teaming up with John McClane, only to realize this was all planned by the It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia gang as a measure to distract people from any backlash Starfy would receive if he were a DLC fighter for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate.

 

[Idon]

Gotta say, if Sakurai was so willing to pick the "less obvious, but more extremely plot important character," kinda wish we had gotten Edelgard over Byleth.

 

[SharkLord]

Gotta say, if Sakurai was so willing to pick the "less obvious, but more extremely plot important character," kinda wish we had gotten Edelgard over Byleth.

Me imagining the FE fandom tearing itself apart alongside the Smash fandom over whether or not Edelgard is a villain or not

 

[chocolatejr9]

Me imagining the FE fandom tearing itself apart alongside the Smash fandom over whether or not Edelgard is a villain or not
View attachment 308057

C'mon, you know you wanna see it...

 

[DarkFalcon]

Me imagining the FE fandom tearing itself apart alongside the Smash fandom over whether or not Edelgard is a villain or not
View attachment 308057

As happy as I am with how Byleth plays..Man, I would have been ecstatic over Edelgard. The fan wars over her character would have been glorious to witness for a second time.

 

[Shroob]

Me imagining the FE fandom tearing itself apart alongside the Smash fandom over whether or not Edelgard is a villain or not
View attachment 308057

C'mon now, don't be silly.



We all know that she is one.




Yeah I just lit that powder keg, let's do this ****.

 

[chocolatejr9]

C'mon now, don't be silly.



We all know that she is one.




Yeah I just lit that powder keg, let's do this ****.

How soon do you want that essay about how Dimitri is the worst House Leader?

 

[Shroob]

How soon do you want that essay about how Dimitri is the worst House Leader?

Before 3rd period ends for the day.

 

[Idon]

Me imagining the FE fandom tearing itself apart alongside the Smash fandom over whether or not Edelgard is a villain or not
View attachment 308057

The simplest answer is that she's both.

As is the nature of FE3H's split routes gameplay, she's either one of the protagonists or the primary antagonist.

For Smash purposes she's the only Fire Emblem antagonist that has ever held a snowball's chance in Hell of ever being picked. Unfortunate then that to not show bias towards any particular route, they had to go with Byleth.

 

[DarkFalcon]

All I can say is Byleth's influence means a lot regardless of the path you choose.

Also Edelgard best girl tru fax.