Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SpecterFlower]

Now I'm curious how surprised they were about the positive reception to Joker in Smash...

"What? I thought everyone would hate our popular character?" Atlus probably.

 

[DarthEnderX]

If you could change one Classic Mode route, what would you do?

You can add a character, change the theme, even the tiniest adjustment

— Aaron (@Aaronitmar) March 20, 2021

I'd replace Isabelle's final boss with Mother Brain.

Which would require making Mother Brain a boss.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I figured this would be an interesting topic. As for my ideas:

Interesting. I do think that some Classic Modes are kinda weird and could be better.

Spoiler: Donkey Kong :ultdk:

Story of a Kong - The route references DK's origins as a retro arcade character and his appearances in different games through history, both in his series and others.

1. on 75m, referencing the original Donkey Kong.
2. on Flat Zone, referencing the Donkey Kong gamesfor Game and Watch, as well as Donkey Kong 3 because of G&W's rapid jab.
3. on Kongo Jungle, with as a partner, referencing the first Donkey Kong Country.
4. , and in a free-for-all at Mario Circuit, referencing Mario Kart and all the other Mario spinoffs DK has appeared in.
5. in Boxing Ring, referencing DK's appearance in Punch Out!
6. Finally, , and in another free-for all at Battlefield, referencing Smash itself.
7. In that same line, boss would still be Master Hand.

Spoiler: Banjo and Kazooie :ultbanjokazooie:

A Rare Reunion - Banjo and Kazooie's battles "reenact" certain moments of N64 games. Most consist of the bear and bird teaming up with a partner.

1. at Peach's Castle 64 (Omega) with as a partner, recreating their fight from Mario 64.
2. on Pokémon Stadium, with as a partner, referencing Vs. Mewtwo from Pokémon Stadium.
3. on Hyrule Castle 64 (Omega) with as a partner in his Tunic of the Wild, referencing the final battle of Ocarina of Time.
4. on Venom, with as an ally, referencing the final battle against Star Wolf in Venom.
5. on Dream Land 64, with as a partner. I wanted to reference Dedede's boss fight from Crystal Shards, but alas there's no content at all post-Super Star that I could use.
6. Giant at Boxing Ring, with and as allies. This references three things: the final battle of DK64, the fight against Giant DK in the original Smash's 1P Mode (which also gave the player two allies) and the three's reunion in Banjo and Kazooie's reveal trailer.
7. The Boss would be Master Hand at Spiral Mountain (Omega), referencing both Banjo-Kazooie and Smash 64 itself.

...I could make a few more, but I'm tired. As for minor adjustments:

• Make Samus' final Boss Marx, to fit with her "monsters" theme.
• Same for Fox
• For Peach, exchange Bowser with Ridley in Stage 6 and have Bowser and Giga Bowser as the Boss stage.
• For Roy, use Ganon as the Boss. It actually doubles as a joke because this is the game that gave a sword to Ganondorf.
• Same for Ike, because Ganon as a boss has dark colors. Alternatively, use Dracula.
• For Olimar, use Marx as a boss because of his "space" theme
• Villager's route also fits well with Marx, considering his more innocent appearance in the beginning of Milky Way Wishes.
• For Shulk, I think Galleom would have been a better reference, especially because he comes right after a fight representing Mechon.

 

[PeridotGX]

I just realized that all of the transformation or former transformation characters are female (with the partial exception of the Pokemon Trainer, but all parts involved have the potential to be female). I'm also struggling to think of a male transformation character. odd.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It probably never would have happened given the proximity to Zelda/Sheik at the time, but a TP Link circa Brawl that could transform into his Wolf form and back would have been interesting.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I just realized that all of the transformation or former transformation characters are female (with the partial exception of the Pokemon Trainer, but all parts involved have the potential to be female). I'm also struggling to think of a male transformation character. odd.

I would make a joke about girls preferring to change their appearance, but I don't know if I should. Don't wanna risk giving the wrong idea...

 

[ShrimpScampi]

I just realized that all of the transformation or former transformation characters are female (with the partial exception of the Pokemon Trainer, but all parts involved have the potential to be female). I'm also struggling to think of a male transformation character. odd.

Euden would be able to turn into Midgardsormr, but that’d most likely be a metered transformation rather than being able to switch on the fly. The closest I can think of to something like PT or Pyra/Mythra is switching between Adol’s three elemental swords from Ys VI. You wouldn’t be changing between characters, but your moveset would change depending on which sword you have active.

 

[Dinoman96]

One fun idea I have for a transformation character that would involve explictly male characters would be a tag team consisting of the DK64 kongs: Chunky, Lanky and Tiny.

Their Down B would let them tag in and out with the Tag Barrel.

 

[Otoad64]

I just realized that all of the transformation or former transformation characters are female (with the partial exception of the Pokemon Trainer, but all parts involved have the potential to be female). I'm also struggling to think of a male transformation character. odd.

Ganondorf transforming into Ganon?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I just realized that all of the transformation or former transformation characters are female (with the partial exception of the Pokemon Trainer, but all parts involved have the potential to be female). I'm also struggling to think of a male transformation character. odd.

Considering they’re technically the same person, Nightmare transforming into Siegfried and vice versa?

...I dunno. I don’t actually know anything about Soul Calibur so, I just saw other people playing it

 

[Starlight Liger]

I can't see a Fighter's Pass 3 happening partly because Sakurai is likely working on a new IP whilst working on Smash Ultimate and partly because Nintendo doesn't want to make Smash Bros Ultimate too expensive.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

If Nintendo was fine not doing any DLC for the Switch version of Mario Kart in spite of that selling game even better than Smash, then them stopping after two passes with Ultimate is hardly out of the question.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I can't see a Fighter's Pass 3 happening partly because Sakurai is likely working on a new IP whilst working on Smash Ultimate and partly because Nintendo doesn't want to make Smash Bros Ultimate too expensive.

If Nintendo was fine not doing any DLC for the Switch version of Mario Kart in spite of that selling game even better than Smash, then them stopping after two passes with Ultimate is hardly out of the question.

Are you guys replying to anyone in particular?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Are you guys replying to anyone in particular?

I think they're talking to the Void again...

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I was more adding to Starlight Liger's comment. You'd have to ask them about who they were replying to.

 

[Ivander]

Considering they’re technically the same person, Nightmare transforming into Siegfried and vice versa?

...I dunno. I don’t actually know anything about Soul Calibur so, I just saw other people playing it

Nah. Siegfried and Nightmare don't switch between each other. It's either Siegfried in control or Nightmare/Inferno in full control.

On the other hand, Nightmare does have Night Terror that he could transform into, as Nightmare does transform into him in his Soul Calibur 3 ending.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I found a transformation character idea that would involve a mix of male and female characters like the DK64 one above.

An Advance Wars character in Smash? How about 3 of them, all in one character? Here's my personal concept for how they could play: The Orange Star Army! #SuperSmashBrosUltimate pic.twitter.com/bGUQoeygiV

— Chris (@ChrisJuniverse) September 5, 2018

 

[Deleted member]

Pyra and Mythra's Classic Mode is a travesty. Given the trailer it should've ended with a 1v1 against Shulk followed by a team up with him against Master & Crazy Hand. Instead we got a route so forgettable it wasn't even shown in the Sakurai Presents.

As far as male transformation characters go, a cheat answer would be a tag team like Kiryu + Ichiban or Phoenix + Edgeworth. Those aren't exactly likely but it would be a way to circumvent which part of a series to represent or the inability to add Echoes of DLC fighters.

 

[Perkilator]

Pyra and Mythra's Classic Mode is a travesty. Given the trailer it should've ended with a 1v1 against Shulk followed by a team up with him against Master & Crazy Hand. Instead we got a route so forgettable it wasn't even shown in the Sakurai Presents.

Holy carp, I didn’t even think about that.

 

[ahemtoday]

Can I just state that I'm not really a fan of the idea of jamming characters together basically for the hell of it? The way I see it, if transforming or switching or stances or whatever you want to call it isn't one of the absolute foremost things about the character, they shouldn't be a transformation character. I know I've mentioned that one fan roster where Mario's down-B was Yoshi and Bowser's down-B was getting in a Koopa Clown Car before, but I can't help but think about that right now...

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Part of me would be intrigued 2 in 1/3 in 1 characters that don't have the transformation as a down special B move.

The shift with Rick, Kine, & Coo are pretty seamless and its interesting to think of a Smash character with that kind of element, perhaps literally changing if the attack is air, ground, or running based.

 

[Otoad64]

Part of me would be intrigued 2 in 1/3 in 1 characters that don't have the transformation as a down special B move.

The shift with Rick, Kine, & Coo are pretty seamless and its interesting to think of a Smash character with that kind of element, perhaps literally changing if the attack is air, ground, or running based.

problem is Smash lacks free flight and water combat so Kine & Coo wouldn't have nearly as much to do

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Considering they’re technically the same person, Nightmare transforming into Siegfried and vice versa?

...I dunno. I don’t actually know anything about Soul Calibur so, I just saw other people playing it

I've always seen it more likely of Siegfied being a costume for Nightmare.

 

[SKX31]

I just realized that all of the transformation or former transformation characters are female (with the partial exception of the Pokemon Trainer, but all parts involved have the potential to be female). I'm also struggling to think of a male transformation character. odd.

It's a pipedream, but Dota 2's Morphling is coded male (his VA being David Scully and all), and I've latched onto the idea of a water elemental whose main aspects consists off:

* Copying an opponent's / enemy's form a la Bowser Jr's transformation to Shadow Mario* as well as gain access to the opponent's basic attacks / abilities temporarily, and change between his water elemental form and the copied form freely within that timespan until the copy expires.

* Changing his own weight stats - in the origin game Morphling's able to pool all his Agility into Strength and vice versa (if he pools into Strength, he gains total HP but loses damage output, the opposite happens when he pools into Agility). Which can be replicated to some degree with weight.

That alongside his natural high octane burst (while he's susceptible to debuffs, silences and armor reduction). One of the main reasons it's a pipedream is because Dota 2's completely and utterly obscure in Japan (contrasted heavily with LoL, which actually has a sizeable Japanese fanbase), but hey, it's a minute possibility. I'll hold onto that until the end of time.

*(Complete sidenote: This one is under-utilized as all hell in Smash. Which is a shame, as that was a memorable part of Sunshine, even if it was memorable for some of the wrong reasons.)

problem is Smash lacks free flight and water combat so Kine & Coo wouldn't have nearly as much to do

Free flight might not be much of an issue - one can limit things to multi-jumps and be basically fine with it. It's never been much of an issue with the existing Kirby characters + Puff (except for some issues re: stalling tactics, but there have been much, much worse stalling tactics).

Water combat is more of an issue though, that I agree with. One could possibly get around that by allowing water attacks to be summoned a la the Kirby games / Surf in Pokemon.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

problem is Smash lacks free flight and water combat so Kine & Coo wouldn't have nearly as much to do

Well I mean that's one example used because the changing mechanic within the context of Star Allies works really well.

Like if the Lost Vikings ended up in Smash the instant change aspect could easily be incorporated with them depending on what they're doing.

 

[7NATOR]

Speaking of the DK Tag Mechanic. If you look at Dixie Kong's Upgraded spirit, the spirit is of her and Kiddy Kong, which may imply that Sakurai might still want to tackle that old DK Switch mechanic that was planned for Diddy/Dixie in Brawl

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Speaking of the DK Tag Mechanic. If you look at Dixie Kong's Upgraded spirit, the spirit is of her and Kiddy Kong, which may imply that Sakurai might still want to tackle that old DK Switch mechanic that was planned for Diddy/Dixie in Brawl

If Rex is any indication, they might be wary of making things too complicated though and just have Dixie alone.

 

[7NATOR]

If Rex is any indication, they might be wary of making things too complicated though and just have Dixie alone.

To be fair, we don't know if this concept would be as Complicated though. we do know Icies were difficult so maybe yes, however there's always the chance next game could be able to Implement this with less issue than Ultimate allows, if Dixie isn't in this pass

 

[Technomage]

I just realized that all of the transformation or former transformation characters are female (with the partial exception of the Pokemon Trainer, but all parts involved have the potential to be female). I'm also struggling to think of a male transformation character. odd.

Do tag-team "transformations" count? If so, then here's some I've come up with (including transformers that aren't tag-teams):

Johnathan and Charlotte from Castlevania Portrait of Ruin
Goemon and Ebisumaru from Mystical Ninja (I remember the N64 game allowing players to switch between the two at will, with the transformation involving an explosion of smoke, like a ninja's teleportation)
Dragonborn from Skyrim (could involve switching weapons to move to a different moveset, such as switching between a one-handed melee weapon to a two-handed one)
Tails (both in his Sonic Adventure 2 mech and without it)

PS. If Smash were to add another tag-team fighter duo, then I would love to see the inactive member spectating from the background, a la Pokemon Trainer.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Do tag-team "transformations" count? If so, then here's some I've come up with (including transformers that aren't tag-teams):

Johnathan and Charlotte from Castlevania Portrait of Ruin
Goemon and Ebisumaru from Mystical Ninja (I remember the N64 game allowing players to switch between the two at will, with the transformation involving an explosion of smoke, like a ninja's teleportation)
Dragonborn from Skyrim (could involve switching weapons to move to a different moveset, such as switching between a one-handed melee weapon to a two-handed one)
Tails (both in his Sonic Adventure 2 mech and without it)

PS. If Smash were to add another tag-team fighter duo, then I would love to see the inactive member spectating from the background, a la Pokemon Trainer.

Switching weapons eh? If they ever decide to add Elma I think that’s what I want out of her, to switch between her twin swords and twin guns on the fly

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Rex's complication was having him onscreen all the time. And he's a lot more active than Pokemon Trainer with what they talked of.

Dixie/Kiddy as a Barrel Switch Out Mechanic? That's as complicated as a regular Transformation only. It's only them teaming up that may be, but if it's for a few moves instead, it's nowhere near what Ice Climbers are.

Though honestly I think that's still what he's going for. It feels a bit too weird Dixie has yet to be playable, but having a complicated transformation mechanic would make a lot of sense to why she's not there yet. It's not easy to implement right. It's literally why she was scrapped in Brawl, and there's no way it'd work for For(3DS issues), and in Ultimate, King K. Rool also was way easier to implement, making her an easy case of lower priority. Semi-clone would take a lot longer to do than an Echo, of course, and an Echo isn't on the table either if she is specifically meant to be a Tag Team/Transformation(in terms of how gameplay works) character anyway. Semi-clone wouldn't be any different, because that would still exist if she's teamed up with Kiddy. In addition, do note that Pyra and Mythra are actual clones of each other, so if Dixie and Kiddy don't play a lot alike, then it would've taken even longer. PT is only really an exception due to being a veteran and the movesets still could be transferred over properly(since he had the concept done a long time ago). I feel like an Echo may be her best shot next game if he can't get any Transformation stuff to work as he wants. Though to be fair, Pyra/Mythra may have taken too much time if they were actual semi-clones/more unique because of the DLC window being smaller than base game development-wise. But they're our first new Transformation character, so who knows what it means. I don't remember Kiddy that much, though. Like, I don't really remember if he was similar to DK? I know Dixie and Diddy play a lot alike to begin with.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Kiddy Kong has an atrocious design. I hope he never gets in. I’d rather they figure out a way to have Cranky alongside Dixie.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Kiddy Kong has an atrocious design. I hope he never gets in. I’d rather they figure out a way to have Cranky alongside Dixie.

That's also my preferred combo, but there's no... real reason behind it other than they're both more popular than Kiddy. Sure, they both have done tag teams in the past, but it's just taking massive liberties for the sake of it. It wouldn't be bad by any means, but there's not much reason why it would happen. If Dixie would team up with someone, it'd be someone who she's known for teaming up with. That's pretty much Diddy and Kiddy at this point.

Also, Kiddy is actually fairly popular on his own. Though Chunky, his brother, is a lot more loved due to being actually funnier/more interesting. That, and DK64 has some great animations/voices/idles.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Kiddy Kong has an atrocious design. I hope he never gets in. I’d rather they figure out a way to have Cranky alongside Dixie.

I'm not really a Kiddy fan but c'mon.

He's just a baby.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I'm not really a Kiddy fan but c'mon.

He's just a baby.

An ugly one though.

 

[7NATOR]

So today I was thinking about the characters we have in Fighter Pass 2, I think lineup we have now is very interesting to say the least

Min Min, Steve, Sephiroth, Pyra/Mythra

However I want to pay attention to Steve. I think of all the characters in FP2, I think Steve went to perhaps the most interesting Arc. I remember when Steve was considered a Meme character back in Smash 4, since I know the Hardcore Speculation community did not take him seriously at all. The Casuals loved Steve, but not the Hardcore

With Ultimate though, Steve did start getting more traction and serious talks in the Hardcore speculation community, especially after Vergeben was mentioning some type of Minecraft content in the game, however I would say during the late stages of Base game speculation as well as Early FP1 speuclation, Steve was seen as a Villain, because he was preventing Banjo from getting in

But Banjo did get in, and it did turn out that Steve and Minecraft were the reason Banjo got in. however from this point Steve then lost alot of his favor and perceived likeihood. even with FP2 being announced, people were paying more attention to Master Chief (I was in this boat as well)

Steve had "a Revelation" that made him seem more unlikely to get in, and while he still had people who thought he can get in, a good amount I would say, he still got very overshadowed by Master Chief and stuff

So him getting in, Against the odds was a very exciting conclusion to the Saga, even If I'm not too attached to Steve much. Despite being considered old new in Speculation, and despite some doubt about his Implementation, he still got in. with this in mind, We have learned some valuable lessons from his Inclusion


Except...We might not have learned a valuable lesson from his Inclusion

Because what if I told you there is another character that is in a Similar situation to Steve, that Very FEW People are actually paying attention to. There is a character that I think should have gotten more spotlight after Steve got revealed, because the scenarios, while not one to one, are very similar to Steve in terms of the "Obstacles" they have to face despite the characters having all the merits to be included in Smash.

A Character where not Just Steve, but also Sephiroth, Min Min, and even some Mii costumes support the chance of their inclusion.

Today I Present

Smash Analysis: Shadow is in a Similar situation to Steve in Speculation.

When Steve got into Smash, I couldn't pinpoint why I thought his Inclusion meant good chances for the chance that Shadow was chosen for FP2, just that I knew that it helped, but then I was thinking about it and I might have an answer

Shadow and Steve are/were in Similar situations in terms of Speculation

-Both are characters that were very popular requests amongst the Casual Smash audience, however they had alot of pushback in the Hardcore Smash audience

-Both are characters that got more popularity in the Hardcore fandom overtime during Ultimate's Speculation cycle

-Both are characters that frequently have had/has alot of doubt about their implementation as a full fighter (that Steve couldn't fully work as a fighter, and that Shadow could only work as echo, or was only destined to be echo)

-Both had a revelation that made them seem more unlikely when they were considered very likely before (Shadow with the Assist Trophy, Steve with Banjo getting in)

-Both have/has been overshadowed by other characters from either the Same Franchise or Company (Eggman/Tails, and even Arle at times for Shadow, Master Chief for Steve)

-Both have had some inside info that may point to their inclusion (the Vergeben thing with Minecraft, and Papagenos Info that points to something regarding Legacy X, though I know people don't take Papa as very credible. yes)

-Both have the merits to be Full Fighter (Recognizability, Popularity, Relevance, Moveset potential, Ease of access regarding Rights, though Steve was said to be hard to Implement as a fighter in terms of the amount of work to do. Shadow probably wouldn't be that hard to Implement)

These are the Similarities. Of course the Situations are not 1 to 1, but there is some similarities here between these 2 characters, and with Steve getting in, I think these should be taken into account when Speculating Shadow

With the Avenue of Sephiroth getting in, as well as Pyra/Mythra, we see that New Franchises aren't as Prioritized as they were in FP1, so I think that Extremely helps Shadow.

Now yeah, I do understand if people think Eggman or Tails has a higher chance than Shadow does, but I think it's wrong to say that Shadow has no chance to playable, even with counting in the Assist Trophy

Shadow does have reasons to be in over Eggman or Tails. He's still a heavily recognizable character, so even if you want to argue Eggman and Tails are more recognizable, it's not to the point where the Gap would give them that big of an edge. Shadow I would also say was more popular of a request (Which goes along with him being the 2nd most popular in the Sonic fandom), and keep in mind that alot of the time he was requested, he was already in NPC Position. Eggman especially was never this popular of a Request as he is now. It's very recent

 

[PeridotGX]

I hope the 26 guests reading this thread are having a good day.

 

[Technomage]

So today I was thinking about the characters we have in Fighter Pass 2, I think lineup we have now is very interesting to say the least

Min Min, Steve, Sephiroth, Pyra/Mythra

However I want to pay attention to Steve. I think of all the characters in FP2, I think Steve went to perhaps the most interesting Arc. I remember when Steve was considered a Meme character back in Smash 4, since I know the Hardcore Speculation community did not take him seriously at all. The Casuals loved Steve, but not the Hardcore

With Ultimate though, Steve did start getting more traction and serious talks in the Hardcore speculation community, especially after Vergeben was mentioning some type of Minecraft content in the game, however I would say during the late stages of Base game speculation as well as Early FP1 speuclation, Steve was seen as a Villain, because he was preventing Banjo from getting in

But Banjo did get in, and it did turn out that Steve and Minecraft were the reason Banjo got in. however from this point Steve then lost alot of his favor and perceived likeihood. even with FP2 being announced, people were paying more attention to Master Chief (I was in this boat as well)

Steve had "a Revelation" that made him seem more unlikely to get in, and while he still had people who thought he can get in, a good amount I would say, he still got very overshadowed by Master Chief and stuff

So him getting in, Against the odds was a very exciting conclusion to the Saga, even If I'm not too attached to Steve much. Despite being considered old new in Speculation, and despite some doubt about his Implementation, he still got in. with this in mind, We have learned some valuable lessons from his Inclusion


Except...We might not have learned a valuable lesson from his Inclusion

Because what if I told you there is another character that is in a Similar situation to Steve, that Very FEW People are actually paying attention to. There is a character that I think should have gotten more spotlight after Steve got revealed, because the scenarios, while not one to one, are very similar to Steve in terms of the "Obstacles" they have to face despite the characters having all the merits to be included in Smash.

A Character where not Just Steve, but also Sephiroth, Min Min, and even some Mii costumes support the chance of their inclusion.

Today I Present

Smash Analysis: Shadow is in a Similar situation to Steve in Speculation.

When Steve got into Smash, I couldn't pinpoint why I thought his Inclusion meant good chances for the chance that Shadow was chosen for FP2, just that I knew that it helped, but then I was thinking about it and I might have an answer

Shadow and Steve are/were in Similar situations in terms of Speculation

-Both are characters that were very popular requests amongst the Casual Smash audience, however they had alot of pushback in the Hardcore Smash audience

-Both are characters that got more popularity in the Hardcore fandom overtime during Ultimate's Speculation cycle

-Both are characters that frequently have had/has alot of doubt about their implementation as a full fighter (that Steve couldn't fully work as a fighter, and that Shadow could only work as echo, or was only destined to be echo)

-Both had a revelation that made them seem more unlikely when they were considered very likely before (Shadow with the Assist Trophy, Steve with Banjo getting in)

-Both have/has been overshadowed by other characters from either the Same Franchise or Company (Eggman/Tails, and even Arle at times for Shadow, Master Chief for Steve)

-Both have had some inside info that may point to their inclusion (the Vergeben thing with Minecraft, and Papagenos Info that points to something regarding Legacy X, though I know people don't take Papa as very credible. yes)

-Both have the merits to be Full Fighter (Recognizability, Popularity, Relevance, Moveset potential, Ease of access regarding Rights, though Steve was said to be hard to Implement as a fighter in terms of the amount of work to do. Shadow probably wouldn't be that hard to Implement)

These are the Similarities. Of course the Situations are not 1 to 1, but there is some similarities here between these 2 characters, and with Steve getting in, I think these should be taken into account when Speculating Shadow

With the Avenue of Sephiroth getting in, as well as Pyra/Mythra, we see that New Franchises aren't as Prioritized as they were in FP1, so I think that Extremely helps Shadow.

Now yeah, I do understand if people think Eggman or Tails has a higher chance than Shadow does, but I think it's wrong to say that Shadow has no chance to playable, even with counting in the Assist Trophy

Shadow does have reasons to be in over Eggman or Tails. He's still a heavily recognizable character, so even if you want to argue Eggman and Tails are more recognizable, it's not to the point where the Gap would give them that big of an edge. Shadow I would also say was more popular of a request (Which goes along with him being the 2nd most popular in the Sonic fandom), and keep in mind that alot of the time he was requested, he was already in NPC Position. Eggman especially was never this popular of a Request as he is now. It's very recent

Interesting points, though I gotta say that even if the no AT promotions thing were to be true, Shadow could still get in as a playable fighter if they were to add his Boom incarnation.

 

[Mamboo07]

One fun idea I have for a transformation character that would involve explictly male characters would be a tag team consisting of the DK64 kongs: Chunky, Lanky and Tiny.

Their Down B would let them tag in and out with the Tag Barrel.

Would be cool.

 

[chocolatejr9]

So today I was thinking about the characters we have in Fighter Pass 2, I think lineup we have now is very interesting to say the least

Min Min, Steve, Sephiroth, Pyra/Mythra

However I want to pay attention to Steve. I think of all the characters in FP2, I think Steve went to perhaps the most interesting Arc. I remember when Steve was considered a Meme character back in Smash 4, since I know the Hardcore Speculation community did not take him seriously at all. The Casuals loved Steve, but not the Hardcore

With Ultimate though, Steve did start getting more traction and serious talks in the Hardcore speculation community, especially after Vergeben was mentioning some type of Minecraft content in the game, however I would say during the late stages of Base game speculation as well as Early FP1 speuclation, Steve was seen as a Villain, because he was preventing Banjo from getting in

But Banjo did get in, and it did turn out that Steve and Minecraft were the reason Banjo got in. however from this point Steve then lost alot of his favor and perceived likeihood. even with FP2 being announced, people were paying more attention to Master Chief (I was in this boat as well)

Steve had "a Revelation" that made him seem more unlikely to get in, and while he still had people who thought he can get in, a good amount I would say, he still got very overshadowed by Master Chief and stuff

So him getting in, Against the odds was a very exciting conclusion to the Saga, even If I'm not too attached to Steve much. Despite being considered old new in Speculation, and despite some doubt about his Implementation, he still got in. with this in mind, We have learned some valuable lessons from his Inclusion


Except...We might not have learned a valuable lesson from his Inclusion

Because what if I told you there is another character that is in a Similar situation to Steve, that Very FEW People are actually paying attention to. There is a character that I think should have gotten more spotlight after Steve got revealed, because the scenarios, while not one to one, are very similar to Steve in terms of the "Obstacles" they have to face despite the characters having all the merits to be included in Smash.

A Character where not Just Steve, but also Sephiroth, Min Min, and even some Mii costumes support the chance of their inclusion.

Today I Present

Smash Analysis: Shadow is in a Similar situation to Steve in Speculation.

When Steve got into Smash, I couldn't pinpoint why I thought his Inclusion meant good chances for the chance that Shadow was chosen for FP2, just that I knew that it helped, but then I was thinking about it and I might have an answer

Shadow and Steve are/were in Similar situations in terms of Speculation

-Both are characters that were very popular requests amongst the Casual Smash audience, however they had alot of pushback in the Hardcore Smash audience

-Both are characters that got more popularity in the Hardcore fandom overtime during Ultimate's Speculation cycle

-Both are characters that frequently have had/has alot of doubt about their implementation as a full fighter (that Steve couldn't fully work as a fighter, and that Shadow could only work as echo, or was only destined to be echo)

-Both had a revelation that made them seem more unlikely when they were considered very likely before (Shadow with the Assist Trophy, Steve with Banjo getting in)

-Both have/has been overshadowed by other characters from either the Same Franchise or Company (Eggman/Tails, and even Arle at times for Shadow, Master Chief for Steve)

-Both have had some inside info that may point to their inclusion (the Vergeben thing with Minecraft, and Papagenos Info that points to something regarding Legacy X, though I know people don't take Papa as very credible. yes)

-Both have the merits to be Full Fighter (Recognizability, Popularity, Relevance, Moveset potential, Ease of access regarding Rights, though Steve was said to be hard to Implement as a fighter in terms of the amount of work to do. Shadow probably wouldn't be that hard to Implement)

These are the Similarities. Of course the Situations are not 1 to 1, but there is some similarities here between these 2 characters, and with Steve getting in, I think these should be taken into account when Speculating Shadow

With the Avenue of Sephiroth getting in, as well as Pyra/Mythra, we see that New Franchises aren't as Prioritized as they were in FP1, so I think that Extremely helps Shadow.

Now yeah, I do understand if people think Eggman or Tails has a higher chance than Shadow does, but I think it's wrong to say that Shadow has no chance to playable, even with counting in the Assist Trophy

Shadow does have reasons to be in over Eggman or Tails. He's still a heavily recognizable character, so even if you want to argue Eggman and Tails are more recognizable, it's not to the point where the Gap would give them that big of an edge. Shadow I would also say was more popular of a request (Which goes along with him being the 2nd most popular in the Sonic fandom), and keep in mind that alot of the time he was requested, he was already in NPC Position. Eggman especially was never this popular of a Request as he is now. It's very recent

You are REALLY determined to convince us Shadow still has a chance, aren't you?