DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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Well, yeah. Cause most people think ATs deconfirm.
I'm sure he'll pick back up for Smash 6 speculation.
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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II
- Thread starter Cyn
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I'm sure he'll pick back up for Smash 6 speculation.
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Ironically Takamaru mainly died for this game when his AT was shown off so early. Layton tho I think is a casualty of how third parties changed the game a bit and he suffered, I could go on on that.
Michael the Spikester
Smash Obsessed
Given there's only two characters left at this point. It should be an indication that assist trophies do in fact deconfirm.
Evil Trapezium
Smash Master
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Technomage
Smash Champion
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Plus, because they didn't take the opportunity to make Spring Man playable AND replace AT Spring Man with Springtron whenever Fighter Spring Man is played, that makes your opinion even closer to fact.
See? Unneccesary extra dev time.
chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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Then go on on it! I want to be educated, you fool!
Plus, I'm kinda in the mood for Level-5 talk, but nobody wants to talk about Yo-kai Watch...
True Blue Warrior
Smash Hero
This logic doesn’t work, none of the AT characters are unlikely because they are ATs as that status doesn’t matter anymore given post-release promotions, but due to their individual circumstances (AT status isn’t meant to signify that they are “not good enough”, contrary to what some people think) Midna and Isaac wouldn’t be anymore likely for DLC if they weren’t ATs and neither would have Spring Man as Yabuki taking a “Everyone is a protagonist” diminished his advantages in hindsight. Even in the example of a new game, he’d be very, very unlikely to be promoted as Ninjara would be the fromtrunner and another ARMS character isn’t likely anyways.
Spring Man was never the front-runner as everyone is the protagonist in ARMS. He was never going to be DLC regardless of whether or not he was an Assist Trophy or not.
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I don't think assist trophies deconfirm, I stand by that, but at this point I don't think Nintendo sees them as priority. The two most likely candidates in my eyes are Isaac and Waluigi, and Isaac heavily relies on if that new Golden Sun game gets announced soon. For Waluigi, thinking about it they don't seem to care for him that much and they got other series they could shill.
PeridotGX
Smash Hero
They gave
a new final smash for no real reason, if they wanted to re-skin the AT onto a new model they'd do it.or just remove the AT if the character is in play, which is as simple as an if statement.
Pillow
Smash Lord
Shovel Knight sword mii gang still alive though!
More or less, 3rd party representation in Smash shifted from exclusively huge legacy characters with some history on Nintendo consoles to just really big names when Cloud was added to the game. Of course we were going to run out of Sonics and Pacman type characters eventually, so after that point Nintendo had the option of going for bigger names without care for Nintendo affiliation (Cloud, Steve) or for less big name picks that have heavy Nintendo affiliation (Phoenix Wright, Layton) and they went for the former.
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Gitaroo
Smash Cadet
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Level-5 talk? Well I've been getting back into Inazuma Eleven (Level-5's popular soccer-based RPG and anime series) brainrot, and while I don't know if I'd put them in as a character if Issac ever got promoted to playable, they should totally replace his Assist Trophy role with Endou from Inazuma Eleven with his 'God Hand' goalkeeping technique.
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SharkLord
Smash Hero
Min Min was added because Yabuki told Sakurai he wanted Min Min. Nothing more, nothing less. They evidently didn't care that Bomberman's Mii Costume looks almost identical to the AT that it can summon, and there wasn't an issue with the Rex Mii going up against Rex as a fighter; The issue there was purely technical. The only issue with ATs is that there just aren't many left that have a decent chance, based on the DLC so far.
Geno Boost
Smash Master
why go all the way to bring in springtron to assist trophy to replace spring man when they could just simply make him into alt for playable spring man that would be a double win turning him Assist trophy would be a waste
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True Blue Warrior
Smash Hero
This seems reasonable. In a hypothetical scenario where Rex was an AT and Spring Man was the bonus Mii costume, the former would still be closer to being playable than the latter as it was only technical limitations that prevent Rex & Pyra from being a reality.
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Technomage
Smash Champion
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Yeah, but to be honest, part of me doesn't completely agree with that logic, since even if everyone's the main character, Spring Man is still the mascot of the game (as well as best choice for beginners; I guess you could say he's like Ryu in those regards). But I'm still okay with Min Min being playable instead (she's one of my casual mains, after all).
3BitSaurus
Smash Master
...Or they could just make a toggle for ATs, which is pretty much already in place. Pretty sure it takes far less dev time than, say, updating Cloud's Final Smash or literally reworking every stage in the game so Steve can mine and place blocks.
Actually, scratch that - I'm not "pretty sure". I'm 100% sure it's not a big workload at all.
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I do think Professor Layton is a bit underrated these days. The news of Level 5's NA branches shutting down hurt Layton in many people's eyes but that doesn't matter at all for this pass as long as Nintendo didn't catch wind of the situation a year before the news broke out.
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Speed Weed
Smash Master
How does this work
Pillow
Smash Lord
If we got something like the SNK leak before Terry's reveal, but for Level 5, I'd still put money on Jibanyan over Layton tbh. Though its popularity has waned a bit in recent years, that series is very big in Japan and there's some nice symmetry getting him in the game alongside Pikachu.
PeridotGX
Smash Hero
honestly i'm kinda glad that spring man isn't in, because the fan depiction we have of him wouldn't exist. he wouldn't be a cheater. he wouldn't be james. and a universe with no james is hardly a universe worth living in.
They gave
or just remove the AT if the character is in play, which is as simple as an if statement.
Please tell me how creating a new FS for Cloud or removing ATs for a cameo is the same kind of thing as making a Fighter out of a character who's already an AT.
SharkLord
Smash Hero
There is no greater joy than going onto BoardsSmash Dot Com and dropping spoilers for SakurAI's ARMS movie with no context whatsoever and watching everyone scratch their heads in confusion
PeridotGX
Smash Hero
if fighter.james = InBattle(
disable AT.springman;
)
there we go. i fixed the problem. it is solved
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GillaMonster
Smash Rookie
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Professor Layton is a likely choice imo
BlondeLombax
Smash Master
Sorry if I’m interrupting, just bumping this because I posted it in the dead of night last night.
SharkLord
Smash Hero
It's overturning an already-existing role in favor of a new one. AC Cloud can't use the standard Omnislash anymore, and you can't use certain ATs when they're already in the background. Just taking the code for the latter and replacing "If stage=somethingOrOther" with "If fighter=soAndSo" would have the same effect; The role as a fighter overturns the role as an Assist Trophy as long as they're in play.
Rie Sonomura
fly octo fly
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PeridotGX
Smash Hero
He is - or rather, was - the Spring Man.
Otoad64
Smash Lord
why is he not anymore?
Rie Sonomura
fly octo fly
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As in from the (most likely) canceled comic?
3BitSaurus
Smash Master
You're right, it's not the same thing.
In fact, making a fighter out of an AT is far easier, because you already have a working 3D model and some attack animations. They're done already. So objectively speaking, it's not "unnecessary dev time" at all - in fact it's easier on the devs because there's work already done.
Not to be rude, but I honestly don't know what's so hard to grasp about this.
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PeridotGX
Smash Hero
it was quite the tragic scene. I don't think i'm allowed to post it on this website, but even if it was i don't think i'd want to.
actually from a leaked manuscript of a movie.
SharkLord
Smash Hero
Hayate happened. He impaled him with a lightsaber, because this movie is never getting made and Disney can go suck eggs. However, James broke his chained arms beforehand, so he had to use his teeth instead.
No, I'm not explaining who Hayate is. Go figure it out yourself.
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Far easier?! Changing a move is "far easier" than making tons of new animations for a single model?!
PeridotGX
Smash Hero
You're looking at it backwards. It's easier to re-use a model than to make a new one
SharkLord
Smash Hero
Really, an AT promotion would just be like any other new fighter, except about roughly 1/20th to 1/15th of the moveset is already in the game, plus a base model and some non-offensive animations. It'd be slightly easier because you're not starting from scratch, and that's about all the differences. Dunno why there's so much hubbub surrounding the idea.
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Ok here it is.
Look back upon Smash 4 speculation and most of the commonly speculated third parties have one core thing in common. What do Shovel Knight, Layton, Shantae, and Rayman all have in common when we look at 2014-2015 speculation? They all have something strong to do with Nintendo history. And if you remove Snake from the equation due to how personal of a request he was, third party speculation makes sense. Sonic was Mario's rival. Even if he was not a Nintendo character per say, he was a huge part of Nintendo history still. Mega Man was seen by many as an honorable Nintendo character. Pac Man is where things get a bit iffy, but its Pac Man. One of the most iconic characters ever in gaming and his company was making Smash. With how small third parties were in Smash, it seemed like the direction third parties would likely have strong Nintendo ties.
Then DLC showed up. Ryu is the least damaging to this notion, since SF2 is a big game for the SNES and SF had a strong home on Nintendo systems. Keyword had. SF since then was much more at home on systems like the PS1, Dreamcast, and other modern systems compared to Nintendo. Yes, Ryu was the fighting game character. But the connection to Nintendo was sparse. Then the end of DLC shattered this idea of a strong Nintendo connection was essential. Bayonetta, while being adopted in sort by Nintendo, was a small franchise that really did not have this lasting Nintendo connection that people were searching for. At best she had the same amount of Nintendo loyalty as Rayman did prior to Legends going multiplat. But Cloud is the character that forever changed how Smash third party speculation went down.
Cloud's inclusion, in my opinion, is the greatest proof that the old school gatekeeping of "Nintendo All Stars" was dead. This is the biggest JRPG character ever...from the PS1. FF7 notably jumped ship from the N64 and there was bad blood for a little while between Nintendo and Square. Cloud was arguably the farthest you could get from a Nintendo All Star. Yes, Snake was in Brawl, but he was a personal favor to Kojima, you could handwave him away. Cloud you could not. This threw everything people knew about speculation and arguably the ballot into question. Instead of the popular ballot picks for third parties we got Cloud and Bayonetta?
Now, how does this affect Layton? Simple, his loyalty to Nintendo was one of his big selling points. At that point the Layton series had regular releases and was a super loyal stream of third party games for the DS and 3DS. At the time, Layton had a strong argument for his chances. And then...nothing. Now, going forward to Ultimate, we have the factor of the state of the layton games. Layton has been limited to one spinoff with his daughter and some ports to IOS of the DS games in recent years, a far cry from his old days. Part of his loss of support might just be because he was a casualty of not getting new stuff.
Now with Ultimate, the idea of a Nintendo connection being required for DLC is weakened to such a degree it is seen as a bonus rather than a requirement. In terms of third parties, only Simon and Banjo fit into this pre Cloud mindset of a Nintendo connection and being Nintendo all stars. Hero could be argued for this as well, since DQXI did come out on the 3DS, but even still it is arguable this is more due to how DQ is a cultural phenomenon in Japan rather than because DQ being on a Nintendo system. Sephiroth, Steve, Terry, and especially Joker though do show that overall, Smash is a game of gaming's greatest all stars, not just Nintendo's. While these characters are in the game as fighters, characters like Geno, Rayman, and Shantae that cling more to the older definition I outlined are spirits, and Shovel Knight is an Assist Trophy.
Heck, if we want to take it further, look at speculation on third parties. The fact that Master Chief is entertained as a possibility shows how far Smash has strayed from the Nintendo All Stars gatekeeping of old. But even still, look who people consider as very likely third parties overall. Crash, Ryu Hayabusa, Dante (even if I find his chances overrated), Sol Badguy, etc. Really outside of Hayabusa, Rayman, and Phoenix Wright, most of the third parties that are very speculated do not fit the old idea of third parties from Sm4sh speculation.
So Layton, when his franchise is in stasis and in decline, is faced with so much more competition for oxygen in Speculation. People do not think of Layton as much nowadays because the door has been opened so wide that many other choices once seen as impossible just overshadow him. The one two punch of Smash speculation changing and his series being on the decline really did crush people's views on him. It is a shame since I would enjoy Layton personally, but at the same time I just do not see him as likely.
Oh and I might as well address Sceptile while I am at it from that first post. Uhh, ORAS and Greninja got people acting strange and Sceptile made sense at the time. Shill the latest pokemon game, it was coming out right around Sm4sh. New pokemon generations make older pokemon support groups go quiet. It is a shame, I was one of the big champions of Lycanroc Dusk. Watch I am proven wrong and we get Decidueye to shill Legends.
SpecterFlower
Smash Ace
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Samurai are honorable warriors. They'll generally have more power, sometimes with the fancy quick-draw fighting style.
Ninja are basically assassins. They have swifter attacks, stealth tricks, and various weaponry at their disposal.
It's a bit more complex than that in reality, but that's the simplified version. Basically, the two can coexist without invalidating each other.
[/QUOTE]
Funnily enough Samurai were Scumbag's and Ninja's were the most loyal and trustworthy people in Japan.
Ninja are basically assassins. They have swifter attacks, stealth tricks, and various weaponry at their disposal.
It's a bit more complex than that in reality, but that's the simplified version. Basically, the two can coexist without invalidating each other.
[/QUOTE]
Funnily enough Samurai were Scumbag's and Ninja's were the most loyal and trustworthy people in Japan.
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Rie Sonomura
fly octo fly
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Funnily enough Samurai were Scumbag's and Ninja's were the most loyal and trustworthy people in Japan.
[/QUOTE]
Did you quote me...?
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