Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SKX31]

Considering how unreasonable Konami was acting in 2015 and Square-Enix’s relationship with Nintendo, it must have been Konami Sakurai was referring to.

The only thing that makes me doubt Konami somewhat is that they did license a lot of stuff (including 34 Castlevania songs and a few Metal Gear remixes, lest we forget) to Smash, but then again Konami's licensing has in the past few years worked on the condition that Konami gets at least a decent cut of the pie. Now I don't have the exact figures, but I assume that is the case after Konami allowed a mobile Castlevania clone to rebrand with the Castlevania license.

This comment I made led me to create this...

This is not a character morality alignment this is more about the Alignment of the idea of the smash character pick.

Spoiler: More Details

Chaotic Evil- MUST KEEP AWAY FROM SMASH FOR THE SAKE OF REALITY!

Spoiler: Chaotic "Evil"

But, since a Shrek fighting game (with sponsorship from Tony's for some reason) was unrealistic to begin with, and Shrek Super Slam still was a thing that released, that means that reality is already shattered and...

SSBU X Shrek is inevitable.

That was likely just timing, and that Ryu, Cloud, Corrin and Bayonetta were being worked on for smash 4 AND Ultimate at the same time

idr where I saw that claim but it makes sense

It would make some sense. While I doubt that Ryu was worked on with Ultimate in mind - at least initially - Iwata's death and final request to Sakurai did have a major effect on the latter three characters' development since Sakurai started focusing on Ultimate. It might be a major reason why and impacted Smash 4 so heavily too for multiple patches - since Sakurai focused on Ultimate he might not have seen Bayo especially as too dominant...

Until he saw MKLeo's Bayo destroy Plup's Ridley, and reportedly shook his head in dissapointment.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Plus, VIII’s the most popular DQ in the west, being many’s entry point into the series

Honestly, if we only had one DQ Hero, Eight might have been the best option. DQVIII is one of the most popular and important titles in the DQ series (often compared to FFVII). I imagine that the main reason he wasn’t discussed as much as Erdrick and Luminary is only because he doesn’t really have a name/title other than “Eight.”

Eight, Erdrick, and Luminary all made perfect sense. Solo was a bit random, but his design is pretty distinct, so that probably had something to do with him being chosen.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Honestly, if we only had one DQ Hero, Eight might have been the best option. DQVIII is one of the most popular and important titles in the DQ series (often compared to FFVII). I imagine that the main reason he wasn’t discussed as much as Erdrick and Luminary is only because he doesn’t really have a name/title other than “Eight.”

Eight, Erdrick, and Luminary all made perfect sense. Solo was a bit random, but his design is pretty distinct, so that probably had something to do with him being chosen.

Yangus calls him “Guv”, short for “Guv’nah” so I’m ok with Guv

 

[chocolatejr9]

I'm glad you're making it clear that wishing for 4th Party characters is evil. Approved.

Actually, that chart doesn't imply ALL 4th Party characters are evil. Mostly just Homestuck and Shrek, apparently.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Honestly, if we only had one DQ Hero, Eight might have been the best option. DQVIII is one of the most popular and important titles in the DQ series (often compared to FFVII). I imagine that the main reason he wasn’t discussed as much as Erdrick and Luminary is only because he doesn’t really have a name/title other than “Eight.”

Eight, Erdrick, and Luminary all made perfect sense. Solo was a bit random, but his design is pretty distinct, so that probably had something to do with him being chosen.

Saying this now, if it weren't for CERO, Sofia would've been chosen over Solo. Too bad CERO can't handle Women lol.

 

[Megadoomer]

Actually, that chart doesn't imply ALL 4th Party characters are evil. Mostly just Homestuck and Shrek, apparently.

Lawful Evil is generally still evil - look at Akainu from One Piece or Dolores Umbridge from Harry Potter. (mind you, which characters fit into certain alignments is a matter of opinion, but those two seem pretty clear-cut)

 

[chocolatejr9]

Lawful Evil is generally still evil - look at Akainu from One Piece or Dolores Umbridge from Harry Potter. (mind you, which characters fit into certain alignments is a matter of opinion, but those two seem pretty clear-cut)

Actually, the two I mentioned were under Chaotic Evil on the chart...

 

[DarthEnderX]

Actually, that chart doesn't imply ALL 4th Party characters are evil. Mostly just Homestuck and Shrek, apparently.

Goku, Geralt, Spider-man: Lawful Evil
Doraemon, Spongebob, Bond: Neutral Evil
Shrek, Homestuck: Chaotic Evil

 

[chocolatejr9]

Anyway, here's a scary thought:

Smash fans when Nintendo announces a new Fortnite Joy Con set and there are still 2 characters left in the fighter pass pic.twitter.com/l36TlBMq1m

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) March 15, 2021

 

[DarthEnderX]

Honestly, if we only had one DQ Hero, Eight might have been the best option.

No, if we'd only got one, the only ones that would have made sense are Luminary(if SE insisted to promote 11) and Erdrick(the icon of the franchise that Sakurai would have wanted).

 

[kylexv]

My one fear is that Jonesy will show up as the heavy hitter of the next two characters.
Actually, another is ending the pass with a Gen 8 mon, especially Cinderace (sorry Cinderace fans, I don't want another Fire-type starter in Smash)

 

[SharkLord]

Anyway, here's a scary thought:

Smash fans when Nintendo announces a new Fortnite Joy Con set and there are still 2 characters left in the fighter pass pic.twitter.com/l36TlBMq1m

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) March 15, 2021

Ah great, we're going back to the post-Steve era where everyone was complaining about how the recent games are the only thing in this pass and how Fortnite was inevitable, doom and gloom.

...Oh wait, we're still in the post-Steve era, dredging up old rumors because "BUT WAIT! Steve had long negotiations, so old leaks can be credible again!" Might as well bring back the Fortnite to complete the set.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ah great, we're going back to the post-Steve era where everyone was complaining about how the recent games are the only thing in this pass and how Fortnite was inevitable, doom and gloom.

...Oh wait, we're still in the post-Steve era, dredging up old rumors because "BUT WAIT! Steve had long negotiations, so old leaks can be credible again!" Might as well bring back the Fortnite to complete the set.

Dude, relax, I was trying to make a joke...

 

[Guynamednelson]

Anyway, here's a scary thought:

Smash fans when Nintendo announces a new Fortnite Joy Con set and there are still 2 characters left in the fighter pass pic.twitter.com/l36TlBMq1m

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) March 15, 2021

Yeah, cause using that to guess at characters went so well before. pic.twitter.com/ME7yd9M2ww

— Liam (@JazzyFuture) March 15, 2021

The nightmare is over.

 

[Geno Boost]

Speaking of Ryu hayabusa wouldn’t he just kill the whole idea of having Takamaru in smash if we got him?

 

[SneakyLink]

Anyway, here's a scary thought:

For those wishing to see the Joy Cons themselves:

Gear up in style with the Joy-Con Fortnite Fleet Force Bundle, available June 4! Includes a uniquely designed yellow Joy-Con and blue Joy-Con, 500 V-Bucks & a download code for in-game cosmetics.

And be sure to drop into the new @FortniteGame Season starting tomorrow, March 16! pic.twitter.com/QgCiVGy5iW

— Nintendo of America (@NintendoAmerica) March 15, 2021

My thoughts: Never played or have any intention of playing Fortnite, but the colors look okay.

No idea what Nana Nana means... unless it's a Muppets reference.

Edit: That said, I don't think this points to a character in Smash. Not every business move means Smash collaboration. Could one happen? Yes. Will one happen? We'll have to wait and see.

 

[SharkLord]

Dude, relax, I was trying to make a joke...

Blame the wording of the Tweet. That's probably gonna set something off. Hopefully that "something" just remains on Twitter, where it was originally posted.

Y'know what? SmashBoards survey: Should we count Fortnite among the deep-seated SmashBoards trauma alongside the ARMS guessing game and Grinch Leak?

 

[cashregister9]

Y'know what? SmashBoards survey: Should we count Fortnite among the deep-seated SmashBoards trauma alongside the ARMS guessing game and Grinch Leak?

I personally wouldn't because the Grinch Leak and the Arms guessing games were things that have actually happened, The Fortnite stuff is just circlejerking and fearmongering.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Speaking of Ryu hayabusa wouldn’t he just kill the whole idea of having Takamaru in smash if we got him?

Takamaru is a feudal samurai. Hayabusa is a sci-fi ninja.

Now Haohmaru or Mitsurugi? That would probably kill Takamaru.

 

[Speed Weed]

Speaking of Ryu hayabusa wouldn’t he just kill the whole idea of having Takamaru in smash if we got him?

Even without getting into the more in-depth differences, one's a samurai and one's a ninja

 

[Geno Boost]

In the past I was supporting Takamaru but the idea of having him died out to me
I guess I can see why when I learned about other retro character that are very unique and bring more new things to the table
Unless if in some way Takamaru is capable of more what than what I expect

 

[SharkLord]

Speaking of Ryu hayabusa wouldn’t he just kill the whole idea of having Takamaru in smash if we got him?

Samurai=/=Ninja

Samurai are honorable warriors. They'll generally have more power, sometimes with the fancy quick-draw fighting style.

Ninja are basically assassins. They have swifter attacks, stealth tricks, and various weaponry at their disposal.

It's a bit more complex than that in reality, but that's the simplified version. Basically, the two can coexist without invalidating each other.

 

[Ivander]

Samurai=/=Ninja

Samurai are honorable warriors. They'll generally have more power, sometimes with the fancy quick-draw fighting style.

Bottom text.

 

[Geno Boost]

One of the character I remember being heavily requested years ago was professor Layton I wonder how did it die out?

 

[SharkLord]

Bottom text.

This image is now historically accurate

 

[Ivander]

One of the character I remember being heavily requested years ago was professor Layton I wonder how did it die out?

I don't know. Like Level 5 had a lot of attention in the early 2010s and I thought they were reaching a peak around the mids, but like, around 2019-2020, they've just.....disappeared, especially after Lady Layton. Doesn't help that Level 5's western branch was removed or something.

It's strange cause Layton was definitely a highly talked about character during the Smash Ballot. But yeah, no one has really talked about him for either Fighter's pass. Nowadays, he can easily be considered a dark horse pick.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I don't know. Like Level 5 had a lot of attention in the early 2010s and I thought they were reaching a peak around the mids, but like, around 2019-2020, they've just.....disappeared, especially after Lady Layton. Doesn't help that Level 5's western branch was removed or something.

It's strange cause Layton was definitely a highly talked about character during the Smash Ballot. But yeah, no one has really talked about him for either Fighter's pass. Nowadays, he can easily be considered a dark horse pick.

Oh, how the mighty have fallen...

 

[Geno Boost]

I don't know. Like Level 5 had a lot of attention in the early 2010s and I thought they were reaching a peak around the mids, but like, around 2019-2020, they've just.....disappeared, especially after Lady Layton. Doesn't help that Level 5's western branch was removed or something.

It's strange cause Layton was definitely a highly talked about character during the Smash Ballot. But yeah, no one has really talked about him for either Fighter's pass. Nowadays, he can easily be considered a dark horse pick.

I guess the dead trio of after smash 4 speculation were Takamaru, Layton, Sceptile

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

I missed the Sonic discussion.... too bad, I'mma throw my rings into the hedgehog discussion anyway hahahaha

So... obviously Eggman is largely seen as "the frontrunner".... but... what IF? Play with me in fantasyland for a sec, what IF... it's actually AMY?

Yeah Sonic THOUGHT he could get away from Amy for a bit, and he even did for two, technically three games AND the better part of Ultimate... but Amy will inevitably follow him into Smash, grab him by the arm and bring him to that date/fight at a Twinkle Park stage, full of rides and all kinds of different platforms, maybe even an appearance by ZERO the grabby robot. And you'd better BELIEVE the reveal is set to "My Sweet Passion" hahaha

Amy herself as a fighter? Not a ton in the way of gimmicks. A very versatile character. Fast boxercise punches

Followed up with unusually strong Smash and Special attacks from the famous Piko Piko Hammer! A fighter truly ready for all occasions! Perhaps even Cream, Cheese and Big show up for a Team Blast Final Smash?

The "gimmick" with this fighter pack would be... she actually comes with an ECHO! Metal Sonic, who "might know everything Sonic's going to do, but that's not going to help him much because Sonic knows everything HE'S going to do! Strrrrrrrrrange, isn't it? Grrrrrrrr!"

That's right, a Sonic CD callback. Metal Sonic and Amy having debuted in the same game. Amy herself isn't that unique, but the "gimmick" is that you're TECHNICALLY getting TWO fighters thanks to Echo Metal here. He fights like Sonic except 1: He's floatier, 2: He's got a "Metal Overlord" Final Smash and 3. Maybe just a smidge more defense thanks to being a robot.

Happy 30th Anniversary, Sonic!

That wouldn't be so bad. Of course, I say that as a raving Sonic fan tho, so I might be biased.

 

[PeridotGX]

I guess the dead trio of after smash 4 speculation were Takamaru, Layton, Sceptile

Shovel Knight also fell pretty far, he's still decently popular but nowhere near where he was back then.

 

[cashregister9]

I missed the Sonic discussion.... too bad, I'mma throw my rings into the hedgehog discussion anyway hahahaha

So... obviously Eggman is largely seen as "the frontrunner".... but... what IF? Play with me in fantasyland for a sec, what IF... it's actually AMY?

View attachment 307360

Yeah Sonic THOUGHT he could get away from Amy for a bit, and he even did for two, technically three games AND the better part of Ultimate... but Amy will inevitably follow him into Smash, grab him by the arm and bring him to that date/fight at a Twinkle Park stage, full of rides and all kinds of different platforms, maybe even an appearance by ZERO the grabby robot. And you'd better BELIEVE the reveal is set to "My Sweet Passion" hahaha

Amy herself as a fighter? Not a ton in the way of gimmicks. A very versatile character. Fast boxercise punches
View attachment 307361

Followed up with unusually strong Smash and Special attacks from the famous Piko Piko Hammer! A fighter truly ready for all occasions! Perhaps even Cream, Cheese and Big show up for a Team Blast Final Smash?

The "gimmick" with this fighter pack would be... she actually comes with an ECHO! Metal Sonic, who "might know everything Sonic's going to do, but that's not going to help him much because Sonic knows everything HE'S going to do! Strrrrrrrrrange, isn't it? Grrrrrrrr!"

View attachment 307363

That's right, a Sonic CD callback. Metal Sonic and Amy having debuted in the same game. Amy herself isn't that unique, but the "gimmick" is that you're TECHNICALLY getting TWO fighters thanks to Echo Metal here. He fights like Sonic except 1: He's floatier, 2: He's got a "Metal Overlord" Final Smash and 3. Maybe just a smidge more defense thanks to being a robot.

Happy 30th Anniversary, Sonic!

That wouldn't be so bad. Of course, I say that as a raving Sonic fan tho, so I might be biased.

Amy would be lowkey amazing. I like Tails and Knuckles but they seem a bit plain Eggman is cool but Amy is underrated. Also if she were to be added Follow Me better be on that song list.

 

[Ivander]

Shovel Knight also fell pretty far, he's still decently popular but nowhere near where he was back then.

Are we talking Smash popularity or actual popularity? Actual popularity, Shovel Knight gets alot more attention still compared to Quote and Cave Story.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Samus and Cloud would relate to Sonic thinking they thought they got a break.

At least unlike them, it ain't a villain that followed Sonic to Smash.

 

[Arcanir]

Considering how unreasonable Konami was acting in 2015 and Square-Enix’s relationship with Nintendo, it must have been Konami Sakurai was referring to.

A good relationship doesn't automatically mean that there wasn't trouble with negotiations. Nintendo had a good relationship with Sega back in the days of Brawl, and Yuji Naka in particular wanted Sonic in Smash for Melee, but reportedly the former still said no to adding Sonic until they changed their minds later. So that good relationship and even a desire from one of their developers to have the character in didn't initially go too far. Additionally, Sakurai has mentioned before that with every character he has to field requests, go to their respective companies to showcase how the character is going along according to their expectations, makes changes according to what they say, etc., and that can lead to a breakdown if something doesn't go the way they want. So if the FF team (and SE) are stricter with Cloud's representation then they are with Hero, then it is plausible that they had a harder time re-negotiating for the character.

That said, without having that information we can only get into hypotheticals. It is possible Cloud didn't give them a lot of trouble, but saying they definitely didn't because SE is friendly with Nintendo outwardly could be missing what's going on internally.

 

[Geno Boost]

If you were given a choice between Pete from harvest moon or Cooking mama to playable in smash who would you choose and why

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Samus and Cloud would relate to Sonic thinking they thought they got a break.

At least unlike them, it ain't a villain that followed Sonic to Smash.

Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Amy Rose
Amy Rose
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Amy Rose
Amy Rose
Sors immanis
Et inanis
Sors immanis
Et inanis
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Estuans interius
Ira vehementi
Amy Rose
Amy Rose
Veni, veni, venias,
Ne me mori facias
Veni, veni, venias,
Ne me mori facias
Veni, veni, venias,
Ne me mori facias
Veni, veni, venias,
Ne me mori facias
Amy Rose
Amy Rose
Amy Rose

 

[SneakyLink]

If you were given a choice between Pete from harvest moon or Cooking mama to playable in smash who would you choose and why

Cooking Mama.

Mostly because I never really got into Harvest Moon.

 

[UltimateCyborgOverlord]

Amy would be lowkey amazing. I like Tails and Knuckles but they seem a bit plain Eggman is cool but Amy is underrated. Also if she were to be added Follow Me better be on that song list.

Follow Me is truly the better song, though I do quite enjoy My Sweet Passion just for the (possibly intentionally?) irritating nature of it. Like, Tails rescues her in SA2 and that song just BLARES OUT. That song also blares out at

Spoiler

the end of Sonic and the Black Knight when she gets after Sonic for missing their date due to being stuck in the book of King Arthur

My Sweet Passion, Follow Me, Amy's Room (Sonic Battle), Twinkle Park, various songs from Sonic R, the rarely heard "You're My Hero", things from either soundtrack of Sonic CD... there's actually a pretty good selection of music one could ram into an Amy pack, maybe even ram a few others (What I'm Made Of, Stardust Speedway) if Metal Sonic were to show as well. Toss in a few Sonic Heroes tracks for good measure (Seaside Hill/Ocean Palace chief among them) and you've got yourself a fun time.

There is a terrible part of me that would also love if the stage was NOT Twinkle Park, but just "Amy's Room" aka the single most "Amy" stage of them all. Very basic stage without a ton of gimmicks so tourney friendly... but REALLY REALLY AMY, like her face is plastered all over it... you WILL love Amy whether you like it or not hahahahahahaha

 

[Technomage]

If you were given a choice between Pete from harvest moon or Cooking mama to playable in smash who would you choose and why

I'd pick Pete, since I'm more familiar with Harvest Moon (which I've actually played); that, and so I can see him use a move where he spawns a chicken that poops eggs on opponents. XD

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I'm thinking both Cloud and Snake were this way. Mostly because Konami Hates Kojima and all of his Properties, and Square refuses to help legally with certain Assets (aka literally EVERYTHING!)

I thought this line of thinking died in December of 2020. Since Square has done so much post launch content in Spirit events and DLC, them refusing assets is just untrue.