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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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EricTheGamerman

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You mean you are tired of people providing evidence that proves your claims incorrect yet refusing to acknowledge that you are wrong, so rather than admit that you are incorrect you will just back out of the conversation and act as if you won somehow.

As someone who LOVES Monster Hunter and is iffy on Imran's statements about Byleth and a Hunter, I actually already said Monster Hunter wasn't happening as far back as Pass 1's initial reveal in 2018, and in 2020 I did the research on it to find evidence of the Monster Hunter team's bias against the Hunter as proper crossover representation. This lead me to an interview with I think Seth Killian in which the aforementioned 'They said no for MvC3' took place, of which I have screenshotted and saved somewhere on my PC. I also took the time to look up crossovers and easter eggs as well, and it shares a similar story.

The FF14 crossover features Rathalos and none of the gear looks like standard hunter gear, although I can confirm that the MH devs didn't stop Square from using the designs but rather Square wanted to have their own take. Not sure if hunters show up in FF14 as story elements.

Capcom's own crossover card game Teppen actually has three characters to play as from MH: Rathalos, Nergigante, and a Felyne/Palico. Not a single hunter in sight. More over, most of the cards in the game have no art of the hunter in them (only like 2 or 3 of them do) and most of the cards reference other monsters, items, Palico moves and events.

There are also crossovers with Dragalia Lost, MGS1, Puzzles and Dragons and some others...and each time, they focus on the monsters, the armor/weapons (which are made of the monsters), or the Felynes/Palicos because of how cute they are.

Smash Ultimate itself is proof of this, as Rathalos got it's own Boss Stage and is a part of Classic Mode and WoL seemingly almost randomly in addition to being an Assist Trophy and yet we didn't get anything else until this Mii Costume Wave. If MH was going to get a character, there was only one way for it to really happen, and that would have been with the Palico being the playable character. Based off some speculation and rumors I heard I was actually thinking of coming back to this thread and admitting that MH COULD get a character if they went this route and that I could be wrong about MH not getting a character, but I didn't post it here and forgot all about it only to end up being right on my initial stance.

See, regardless of whether or not they had permission or not to put in MH as a playable character in Infinite, it doesn't matter: what matters is it IS IN FACT the exception to the rule, and when they did it it didn't pan out well. Infinite was a flop, the character doesn't represent the series in terms of using more than one weapon in combat, a lot of people apparently didn't like the voice actor, and on top of that she was on-disc DLC that was locked behind a paywall despite clearly being in the base game since she was part of the story. This all lead to a bad experience with her in addition to the game itself being a bad experience, and when you consider this was the FIRST TIME they broke away from the norm and it bombed, I'm sure you can understand them going right back to how they did things before.
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Speaking of being right, in my friend groups off this site I actually called both the Monster Hunter costumes coming back with Pyra/Mythra despite how much sense having Lloyd's costume return here as he is also an anime swordsman from another popular RPG series. This marks either the second or third time I've called which returning Mii Costumes will come with who, the last time I recall being when I said only Gil would return by himself with Steve. I find it funny how they were brought back with a new Felyne hat to celebrate Rise when everyone here SWORE it would be a playable Hunter to celebrate Rise. Once again, so many of you fall and die on the "New Game On Switch = Character In Ultimate" hill and yet still I see so many folks swearing we will get a Gen 8 Mon despite all the facts being against it. I was also right on my statement that all the returning Capcom costumes would come back with non-Capcom characters.

Also, just to clear the air here, these costumes don't deconfirm MH as playable: MH was NEVER going to be playable, or if you believe Imran Khan, they were but got scrapped and some of their design was used for Byleth. These two costumes were always going to return just to complete having all the old 3rd party costumes and make all these companies more money with little effort, so honestly MH's chances were dead way before this MCW.

Hey, speaking of being right...again...you all remember when I said many pages back before the presentation that Rex not being playable was likely just a design choice? Turns out I was right about that too! I knew that Sakurai was likely going to come out and say why it wasn't Rex and that it would have nothing to do with the Mii Costume because Sakurai is a creative and intelligent developer and doesn't think as simply as many of you all do, which is why I said I'd go after him and criticize him if the costume was the reason.

Now I did say it was probably because Rex just wasn't as popular and the girls were, but as it turns out it was due to limitations. This means that they original wanted Rex to fight alongside Pyra/Mythra but the game couldn't handle it, so they went with just the girls but went the extra step to make a model for Rex to be featured in their intro animation, taunts, Final Smashes and the majority of their victory animations.

Do you guys understand what this means?

IT MEANS THAT THE MII COSTUME WASN'T A DECIDING FACTOR, POSSIBLY NOT EVEN A FACTOR AT ALL.

This is something I have been trying to get so many Smash speculators to understand all this time, which is that so long as there is new content, nothing is off the table and no bit of content will stop Sakurai and his team from making something happen.

Also, this confirms that Mii Costumes DO NOT DECONFIRM even in the slightest, even for those of you in the back. I know you have likely moved the goalpost to be 'Well, 1st party and 3rd party are different, so 3rd party costumes still deconfirm' even though that makes absolutely no sense and is just the exasperated flailing of someone desperately trying to be in the right somehow but it's just over now.

Spirits don't deconfirm.
Costumes don't deconfirm.
Assist Trophies don't deconfirm.

The only thing that deconfirms a character's chance is the end of development...and I have some spicy stuff regarding that as well, but I'll save that for another post.
You're arguing against a mangled version of people pointing out different realities that is essentially a straw man at this point. There's a lot of different facets to different arguments you're skipping over, but the most general alignment of a timeline goes like this:
  1. Everything in base game disconfirmed for Fighter's Pass 1 because that content was decided upon at the same time. If the content was coming it wouldn't have been included in base game or as a Spirit Event as Fighter's Pass 1 was going on and this held completely true.
  2. Everything announced after they announced more fighters were coming (September 2019) disconfirms content for Pass 2 while stuff that was in base game as Spirits or whatever else is technically more plausible to be back on the table as an option. Min Min and Pyra/Mythra have become our Spirit upgrades while no Assist Trophies have been upgraded yet. There's no precedent to an Assist Trophy being upgraded and the general focus for upgrades of base game content have been Switch specific content from the two games Sakurai went out of his way to highlight in interviews as being timing issues.
This is roughly where we're at in terms of speculation. People will argue some semantics here and there or argue Pokemon is allowed to buck the Spirit Event standard or whatever, but this is the general framing of the situation when people speak to why content in one place disconfirms content in other places. The interview from today reveals nothing new in this context because XC2 was always back on the table when Pass 2 was created because there wasn't the same inherent ideology of "If this was planned, it wouldn't already be in the game" because there was a new round of consideration. All the Mii Costumes from Base Game and Pass 1 prior to Pass 2 being planned would theoretically be back on the table. This does not hold true for Pass 2 costume additions though. Why? Because if they were going to be included in Pass 2, they wouldn't show up before hand in the same Pass that was all planned at once. The only reason they would be to do so would be a red herring and there's zero logical basis outside of wishful thinking to believe that (you might get away with arguing advertisement in the case of like the Sword/Shield Spirits that launched alongside the games, but personally I think even that is a stretch).

The content that is showing up in Pass 2, and I'd say basically all the way back to Banjo & Kazooie and their presentation, I would say is currently ruled out for the remainder of Pass 2. The only way it's back on the table for Ultimate is if they decide to make more content, which Sakurai has spent the past couple weeks reaffirming that he isn't doing and that we have 2 and only 2 fighters left. He didn't do this with Pass 1 and the last time Sakurai was brutally honest with us about announcements happened, he was right on the money about "Not too many fighters" and having revealed "too many fighters in the September Direct." Just like back then, there is very little reason to believe this is a misdirection instead of the honest truth. Which I know it sucks to acknowledge that Ultimate is coming to an end and that they aren't going to continue pushing this game further, I'm not particularly thrilled Nintendo is leaving money on the table again or that they are missing huge opportunities to include more great characters... but that's where we're at and these next two do indeed look to be the last two.
 

N3ON

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Oh look, I was right AGAIN! You guys are already moving the goalpost yet again. When will you learn, Smash community, when will you learn that your actions have consequences...and that those consequences are that you are always wrong and that your methods make this community on par with League of Legends of most disliked and toxic community.

Btw @chocolatejr9 I'm sure many people said the same thing to the great minds of our past and current times. 'Just do as the masses say and accept you are wrong regardless of the validity of it.' Welp, many of them did not, and neither will I.

Oh, by the way, here's another one for ya: Lloyd's costume is coming back, and it's absence doesn't increase his chances of being playable/it's inclusion doesn't decrease his chances of being playable. How do I know this? For the same reason I've already argued before, which is that literally every other third-party costume has returned and it's just there to make the came feel more complete and recycle assets to make more bucks. Before XenoBooba Chronicles 2 we were only missing three of the third-party returning costumes...now we are only missing one. They were always going to have all of them return and all 11 characters were decided on sometime after March 2018 and the old costumes were split up in waves to fill in gaps or where they fit in best.

So, for any of you who were/are screaming about Lloyd 'surviving' like PapaGenos and others...well, you both are and aren't wrong.
I'm not sure someone who's made it their personal crusade to talk about how DLC costumes aren't the all-but fatal sign only after Geno was costume'd has any right to point fingers about goalpost moving. Which I didn't do btw, that's always been my take on Rex's costume.

Here's what I said about it last July:
People are really tryna look past Occam's Razor when it comes to the Rex costume. He couldn't make it into base, but he was a popular character, so they leveraged his costume to incentivize purchases of the pass. Since then they've started reevaluating roles, so he should be eligible.
 

ForsakenM

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Messages
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Hey, speaking of good speculation content, what does everyone think about the Dark Pit glitch with his arrow returning and sticking inside him?

I of course have my opinions on it, but I'm much more interested in what others think about this situation. Do you all think this is in reference to a character being worked on, like many previous glitches? Or is this just an oopsie that means nothing, like a fair share of other glitches we have found?
 

SpecterFlower

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Joined
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Messages
700
Hey, speaking of good speculation content, what does everyone think about the Dark Pit glitch with his arrow returning and sticking inside him?

I of course have my opinions on it, but I'm much more interested in what others think about this situation. Do you all think this is in reference to a character being worked on, like many previous glitches? Or is this just an oopsie that means nothing, like a fair share of other glitches we have found?
well as a glitch that's a ton more specific than the other ones, for example bayonetta and min min only shared big arms, however it makes me wonder, if they were creating a character with a boomerang like projectile couldn't they use an actual boomerang or cross instead? it's mostly this which cause me to waver on it, but in a vacuum this is really odd and I can't think what they could accidently program in the game to make dark pit's arrow return to him.

what's the setup required for the glitch?
 

DanganZilla5

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Hey, speaking of good speculation content, what does everyone think about the Dark Pit glitch with his arrow returning and sticking inside him?

I of course have my opinions on it, but I'm much more interested in what others think about this situation. Do you all think this is in reference to a character being worked on, like many previous glitches? Or is this just an oopsie that means nothing, like a fair share of other glitches we have found?
We've talked about this before so I'll bring you up to speed. Some people think that it could point to characters like Decidueye in particular who was considered for the base game and is relevant again thanks to him being a starter in Legends Arceus. Some people have pointed out how some characters have had glitches for a long time and it didn't correspond with any of the DLC characters thus far.

For me it's hard to know where to lean since there is a pattern to it, but it seems to be inconsistent to some extent.
 

Ben Holt

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Now this is what I'm talking about.

I'd love for someone to make a speculation argument for Earthworm Jim. I'm not sure what all you could find that could be in his favor, but I'd be down to read said post and talk about it for sure.
Earthworm Jim should be in Smash because I like him. He's groovy. That's my whole-ass reasoning.
 

Þe 1 → Way

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Hey, speaking of good speculation content, what does everyone think about the Dark Pit glitch with his arrow returning and sticking inside him?

I of course have my opinions on it, but I'm much more interested in what others think about this situation. Do you all think this is in reference to a character being worked on, like many previous glitches? Or is this just an oopsie that means nothing, like a fair share of other glitches we have found?
I certainly think it’s interesting, but these glitches have been pretty vague in terms of deciding whos who. So as much as I’d like to think its hinting toward someone like Doomguy due to the projectile matching what could be his moveset design, it could be anything else. Even just one of the new characters projectile.
 

TCT~Phantom

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So wait, was someone making a whole rant about Mii costumes not being a death knell even if most of us agree unfortunately they are?

I ain’t gonna dig, but I’m gonna go with my gut and say they are passionate about either Geno, Travis, or Lloyd. My gut says Geno.

Until we see a new character that is a dlc Mii costume, they stand as a death knell.
 

Ben Holt

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I know I'll get flack for this, but Earthworm Jim is about as iconic as Banjo was before joining Smash.
Banjo really got a boost from Phil Spencer announcing support on Twitter, which drove the internet wild.
Earthworm Jim is basically the Genesis/SNES era Banjo, which fits my childhood.
 

SpecterFlower

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Man it's been a while since Geno's been argued about. At least we aren't being tpld Cacomallow's real
well it wouldn't surprise me if they held them back for even longer to prepare them for fp4, since they most likely renegotiated geno with square they didn't have enough time to put him in fp3, which is why the malo costume was absent from fp2, because they're saving geno and doomslayer for fp4.
 

cashregister9

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Hey, speaking of good speculation content, what does everyone think about the Dark Pit glitch with his arrow returning and sticking inside him?

I of course have my opinions on it, but I'm much more interested in what others think about this situation. Do you all think this is in reference to a character being worked on, like many previous glitches? Or is this just an oopsie that means nothing, like a fair share of other glitches we have found?
It's hard to pinpoint any reasons for why glitches occur especially for a game like Smash that probably has hundreds of lines of code. Anywhere from adding one thing somehow affects another thing or a small Syntax error added when browsing through the scripts, So I don't think Glitch theory is an actual thing.


Don’t jinx it lol, here’s how Cacamallow is still real guys :4pacman:
It's Him

It's Cacomallow



(Apologies for the terrible photoshop)
 
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Þe 1 → Way

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well it wouldn't surprise me if they held them back for even longer to prepare them for fp4, since they most likely renegotiated geno with square they didn't have enough time to put him in fp3, which is why the malo costume was absent from fp2, because they're saving geno and doomslayer for fp4.
7DDA344E-B313-4E18-B328-FD81A414C660.png

I know its a joke but I couldn’t help myself
 
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Cutie Gwen

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It's hard to pinpoint any reasons for why glitches occur especially for a game like Smash that probably has hundreds of lines of code. Anywhere from adding one thing somehow affects another thing or a small Syntax error added when browsing through the scripts, So I don't think Glitch theory is an actual thing.



It's Him

It's Cacomallow

View attachment 306773
(Apologies for the terrible photoshop)
The site refuses to load the attachment. Even Smashboards is tired of Cacomallow, goddamn.
 

SpecterFlower

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oh i guess i need to explain how vault boy getting in effect the cacodemon

well when they negotiated vault boy bethesda was still independent, and Nintendo likely heard of the buying out of bethesda from microsoft and realized it would be cheaper to negotiate with them so they decided to wait until bethesda was fully part of microsoft to negotiate, which means sakurai, phil spencer and todd howard are all in the most secure vault in the world so none can hear even the whispers of the character's name while they negotiate in secrecy for fp4.
 

Ben Holt

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Totally shifting gears here, but since transformation characters are back with Pyra and Mythra (and Pokémon Trainer), it would be cool to get Bowser's Minions as a transformation character.
Goomba, Koopa Troopa, and Hammer Bro.
I considered Monty Mole, but I decided to stick to only Super Mario Bros. 1 minions.
Lakitu, Bullet Bill, Buzzy Beetle, and Chain Chomp can be part of the moveset.
Hell, even Piranha Plant can show up (think of Chrom)!
 

N3ON

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oh i guess i need to explain how vault boy getting in effect the cacodemon

well when they negotiated vault boy bethesda was still independent, and Nintendo likely heard of the buying out of bethesda from microsoft and realized it would be cheaper to negotiate with them so they decided to wait until bethesda was fully part of microsoft to negotiate, which means sakurai, phil spencer and todd howard are all in the most secure vault in the world so none can hear even the whispers of the character's name while they negotiate in secrecy for fp4.
I heard Geno is going to be shown at the Microsoft presentation.
 

Þe 1 → Way

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I think Giygas (Mother 1), Porky (Mother 2), and the Masked Man (Mother 3) would be a cool 3 in 1 character, just represent the whole trio of Mother Villains for that. Thats 100% just a pipedream though.
Well, thats a sobering reality. Still, I am happy the series has half as much content as it does. Still livid at the complete exclusion of Giygas though, hes begging to be a boss or stage hazard, at least give him an assist. I haven’t played Mother 3 so I don’t know the significance of the absolutely safe capsule to Porky, I hope its vital to him as a character if its the only reference to him as the semi icon he is.
Edit: It seems like the only hope for Porky is if Mother gets something major. Like a remastered trilogy, god I hope.
Also, I get it now. This is probably my favorite easter egg Smash has pulled. It stings a bit, but thats just plain funny.
 
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7NATOR

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I don't think the Geno Mii costume deconfirms because it's a Mii Costume

I think what it does do is imply that Geno was not one of the 6 chosen characters for FP2, and that's heavily based on the Timing of when his Costume came, which says that this is the Geno content that we will get in FP2

I don't think they would add the Geno costume, before adding Geno Later into FP2. That doesn't seem like the M.O of Nintendo, since when they reveal the Fighter Packs, they do like to add the corresponding content with it, as that's the more impactful way

Hey, speaking of good speculation content, what does everyone think about the Dark Pit glitch with his arrow returning and sticking inside him?

I of course have my opinions on it, but I'm much more interested in what others think about this situation. Do you all think this is in reference to a character being worked on, like many previous glitches? Or is this just an oopsie that means nothing, like a fair share of other glitches we have found?
I think with the Dark Pit Glitch, I think this has to do with the Properties of his Arrows themselves. If it was just him having a Bow and Arrow, or having a Projectile that comes from the Character, then I would imagine character like Link, or especially Pit would be affected, but it's only Dark Pit

Dark Pit's Arrows can have their Trajectory changed even after Firing, along with being Aimed. Unlike Pit's though, they can't do 180's and stuff like that since Dark Pit's Arrows aren't that Steerable compared to Pits. So I think it has to do with the properties of the Arrows themselves mainly, but there are other factors to this that could be implied also

The Ryu thread made good points for how this glitch could be in his Favor. It could be related to Reimu, especially if it's combined with that Head Hitbox glitch that's going on. I also have a character in mind, that I think people know who I'm talking about if they know me, But I'm not gonna say for reasons. stuff like that

It could also be related to Mythra's Ray of Punishment, since apparently they had to change some coding to make sure that when Reflected, they went toward Mythra instead of going regular direction.
 

Will

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I told you I was doing it, I just never told you when. Y'all gonna learn today. Bootleg Smashboards article time.

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The Super Smash Bros. series roster has more than doubled within the past decade with an insane jump from 35 playable characters in Brawl to the base roster of 74 total characters in Ultimate, with now 80 total characters and counting with current DLC. This massive jump is not only thanks to the hardworking efforts of Sakurai providing Ultimate the ultimate experience by bringing back all previously playable characters, but also by expanding their horizons on what characters are introduced to the game. Since Brawl, third-party non-Nintendo characters started as a guest duo of Sonic and Snake to now well over an eighth of the current roster spanning from various franchises, companies, and genres. This begs the question of who isn't eligible to join the roster?

Characters from M-Rated video games and/or from games with heavily violent content have been a tricky subject when it comes to plausible Smash Bros. inclusion. Although the characters Snake, Bayonetta, and Joker come from these mature-rated games, characters from franchises with notorious amounts of gore, blood, and other violence have been perceived as having no place in Smash's harmless fantasy violence. These include characters such as Bethesda's Doom Slayer from the DOOM franchise and the star of this piece, NetherRealm Studios's Scorpion from the Mortal Kombat franchise. Though while the Doom Slayer does appear to have a cult following and an understanding of plausibility from the core Smash speculation scene, Scorpion is perceived in the opposite fashion. However, many of these skepticisms are based on multiple pieces of misinformation, of which this piece will dissect, debunk, and prove that this hellspawn ninja is more precedent than you may first think.

Before we start, what even is Mortal Kombat? And why is it important?
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Mortal Kombat is a fighting game series by the now-defunct Midway Studios that first hit arcade cabinets in October of 1992. Between its current rivals of SNK's Fatal Fury and Capcom's Street Fighter II, it was a smash hit. It was praised for its, at the time, realistic graphics using digitized renders of real-life actors that were filmed and then converted into the game and violent trademark Fatality ending moves that depicted graphic ways to kill your opponent after winning the match. In the United States, it had even usurped Street Fighter II during the holiday season of its release year just three months after its release. By the time it had gained its notoriety in the United States for its graphic violence in the 1993 Congressional hearings, 3 million units were already distributed. I'll get back to the hearings soon.

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Grabbed from magazine Play Meter Vol. 18, no. 13, December '92.
It was such a smash hit that it had spawned an entirely new genre of fighting games that used its art style of digitized actors; similar to how Fatal Fury and Street Fighter's success spawned a wave of less successful imitators. Surprisingly, even Capcom had tried it with their two different versions of the video game adaptation of their movie adaptation of Street Fighter II. Mortal Kombat had countless sequels since its inception, with the trilogy of Mortal Kombat, Mortal Kombat II, and Mortal Kombat III (and its update UMK3) continuing to dominate the arcade charts for years while being critically acclaimed by critics and gamers alike. And on top of that, home console versions were also selling millions of units per entry with great reviews. It was on the SEGA Genesis and Super Nintendo, where although the SNES MK1 was notorious for having its blood permanently censored (the Genesis version was also censored, but had a well-known blood-enabling cheat code), the blood returned for all future installments, which is one of the first seeds of misinformation being how much Nintendo actually supported its graphic content at the time. The awkward handling of the first game's port was mainly due to...

The 1993 Congressional Hearings and the Present Day Kombat

The U.S. Senate held a hearing discussing violent video game franchises in December of 1993 and March of 1994. These meetings discussed the concerns of parents who believed that violent video games would have a negative effect on children as the technology evolved to display more graphic scenes in realistic fashions in an unregulated manner. To Congress, they believed that the industry was purposefully marketing violent content to children and threatened to take action. Four games were brought into the spotlight: SEGA's Night Trap, ID Software's DOOM, Konami's Lethal Enforcers, and of course, Mortal Kombat. These hearings forced the industry to create the ESRB rating system we have today in the United States.

Mortal Kombat by this point had become the most well-known violent video game. And though that would seem to detract it from audiences, the Kombat train was still going stronger than ever. By the turn of the century, home console versions of Mortal Kombat Trilogy and its first dive into 3D with Mortal Kombat 4 were well-received and sold well. However, the series had begun to enter a decline entering the 2000s, selling fewer copies per entry, and eventually, the main publisher of the franchise Midway Studios became defunct in 2009. However, the series was purchased by WB Interactive and repurposed as NetherRealm Studios, and the franchise made a massive rebound when Mortal Kombat (also known as MK9) released in 2011. It alone saved the franchise after being acquired by WB and launched a new era for the series.

Following to the present day, Mortal Kombat 11 is beloved and is currently recorded to have sold over 8 million copies as of October 2020. It had even won Best Fighting Game in The Game Awards 2020. It is still going strong with a recently enhanced version for next-gen consoles on Xbox Series X and PS5. It has also been a juggernaut outside of the gaming scene. This is partially thanks to Warner Bros. owning the series and allowing it to flourish in multimedia formats. There have been comics, figures, cartoons, collaborations with DC, and currently three movies full-length with an upcoming fourth one in production. It is far bigger than one would initially expect.

That is practically all of the history you need to know of the series, but that doesn't solve why many believe a Mortal Kombat character is improbable. It has to do with misinformation being spread about various things. For starters...

Japan uses CERO
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The ESRB is only applied in North America. For Europe, there is PEGI. For Japan, their rendition is the CERO, which rates games slightly differently than how we do in the West. Mortal Kombat has an M-Rating in the ESRB. That equivalent in Japan's CERO would be a D rating, which is where the Metal Gear Solid and Bayonetta games are placed. Therefore, Mortal Kombat would also be in the same ranking, right? Not quite. Due to its excessive violence and gore, it actually receives a Z rating, the maximum rating that is equivalent to the ESRB's AO (Adult Only) ranking. However, certain acts of violence such as decapitation and massive amounts of blood loss are strictly prohibited and would have to be changed. Even the games listed above have some sort of censored violence that is uncensored in the Western release. Another example would be the No More Heroes franchise, where excessive blood is replaced with enemies turning into blackened ash.

Despite this, Mortal Kombat still exists in Japan.

I've seen articles everywhere discussing bans on Mortal Kombat, saying that it's been prohibited from release. This isn't the case, the newer entries are simply unlocalized or were canceled releases, not outright bans. It isn't that Japan is banning these games from ever reaching store shelves, it is that WB Interactive doesn't want to pursue heavy censoring just to enter that market. However, that doesn't stop any Japanese player from playing any Mortal Kombat, even after the last official Japanese release being Mortal Kombat Trilogy on the PSX. There was even a televised tournament where Japanese players tried to defeat a blind American in Mortal Kombat: Deception, despite it never being localized. The blind player won, by the way.

Furthermore, there are two easy ways to play Mortal Kombat as a Japanese player:
  1. Import the games. It's been done with both Mortal Kombat X and Mortal Kombat 11. You can do it on all platforms, even Switch.​
  2. Play on PC, because CERO only regulates console releases. MKX and MK11 are available on Japanese Steam services.​
An audience for Mortal Kombat in Japan is also precedent. Although it is a more underground scene, you can find content either on YouTube or nicovideo where Mortal Kombat is being played. and the view count is substantial in thousands and sometimes millions. My point is that a player base exists in Japan. Of course, an official localization would mean more, especially to a Japanese company such as Nintendo. But they do know. In fact...

Nintendo is actually into Mortal Kombat and wanted it on Switch.

At least, this was Nintendo of America's interests. When WB Interactive introduced MK11, they were concerned that the mature title would conflict with Nintendo's family-friendly console. However, they persisted that they actively wanted this title on their platform and were confident in their sales. Below is the panel from NoA representative Scott Hawkins and his discussion of Mortal Kombat 11's success on Nintendo Switch (the stream is in Portuguese, but the voices are in English):

When Warner Bros. got the first playable build of Mortal Kombat 11 up and running on Nintendo Switch, I flew down and met with the team down in southern California. One of the executives there was meeting with me and showing me the game, and we were playing it, and he looks at me and he says, ‘Scott, are you sure Nintendo wants this game on Nintendo Switch?’ And I said, ‘Yes, we absolutely want this game.’

He was concerned because it’s a mature-rated title that it wouldn’t be Nintendo-friendly. But clearly after seeing the first month’s worth of sales and see it be the number one game on the platform, it shows that yes, there is an audience. There’s an audience for lots of different types of content on the platform, and this was a big success.
And they were very much correct. Mortal Kombat 11 has sold extremely well on Nintendo Switch and even toppled Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey, even being yet another million unit best-seller. Go into the eShop right now and you will still find MK11 on their best-selling section of listed games still after being on the platform for over a year now. While graphically the game is lacking, it is a technical marvel for a Switch game and went well beyond Nintendo's original expectations, which was already positive. What does this tell us?

Nintendo is aware. Nintendo knows that there is an audience for Kombat.

As long as CERO remains the same, Mortal Kombat will likely not see an official localization on Switch. But that is fine. Mortal Kombat was never even translated for its 90's era localizations; they're all in English. The knowledge that Nintendo has about the cultural icon that is Mortal Kombat is enough. You can argue adding a character such as Scorpion detracts from the charm of Mortal Kombat's violent themes, but that is similar to characters like the Doom Slayer or Ryu Hayabusa where violence held a key component in aspects of their games. It is not needed to fulfill the character, the character itself is represented to celebrate the video game industry, and this would be selling one of the best-selling fighting games to date; the third rival after Fatal Fury and Street Fighter.

Final Words

The main message of this piece is not to say that Scorpion is a must-have that everyone must accept and open their eyes to. The cultural challenges of Mortal Kombat have persevered and clashed with Japan, but that doesn't make him an impossible inclusion, especially not the fact that it is an American creation that mostly sticks Western. After all, Banjo Kazooie is prominently known to be a bigger success in the Western market than in Japan. Four playable characters in the game are designed by Western companies (with Dark Samus being one American-designed character). SNK (and by translation, what Terry Bogard brought) dominated the Latin-American scene with the NEOGEO more than its Asian scene. Much like how a series that's predominantly popular in Japan that isn't so paraded in the West can and has gotten into Smash, the reverse can apply, and Mortal Kombat is a shining example.

Mortal Kombat's history might appear to paint it in a negative light, but the inclusion of the rating systems has benefitted the gaming industry; as it had prevented government involvement in the industry that could have done far worse. Nowadays, the games and series that were once brought to court in 1993 are beloved. You can buy DOOM and Night Trap on Nintendo Switch eShops today. To say that Scorpion would be impossible is to also assume that the Doom Slayer must also be impossible, even if he was able to localize into the Japanese market.

Again, I am not saying to expect Scorpion or to think he's a priority. I am saying that with the information we have of him, we understand that Nintendo recognizes the Mortal Kombat franchise and respects it. They understand both it and its history as both one of the biggest fighting games and game series in history. My goal was to correct the constant misinformation I have heard about him and to clarify that the shaky history of the franchise overseas does not disqualify him or any other Kombatant. And I hope I was able to deliver.

Just don't be surprised if the day comes where Mario gets hooked by a kunai and dragged away to Hell Netherrealm in a Smash trailer. :bowsette:

Venus of the Desert Bloom Venus of the Desert Bloom Can I get the transparent S/B logo stamp to add onto this to totally make it legit? :nifty: I'm kidding.
 
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Venus of the Desert Bloom

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I told you I was doing it, I just never told you when. Y'all gonna learn today. Bootleg Smashboards article time.

View attachment 306751
The Super Smash Bros. series roster has more than doubled within the past decade with an insane jump from 35 playable characters in Brawl to the base roster of 74 total characters in Ultimate, with now 80 total characters and counting with current DLC. This massive jump is not only thanks to the hardworking efforts of Sakurai providing Ultimate the ultimate experience by bringing back all previously playable characters, but also by expanding their horizons on what characters are introduced to the game. Since Brawl, third-party non-Nintendo characters started as a guest duo of Sonic and Snake to now well over an eighth of the current roster spanning from various franchises, companies, and genres. This begs the question of who isn't eligible to join the roster?

Characters from M-Rated video games and/or from games with heavily violent content have been a tricky subject when it comes to plausible Smash Bros. inclusion. Although the characters Snake, Bayonetta, and Joker come from these mature-rated games, characters from franchises with notorious amounts of gore, blood, and other violence have been perceived as having no place in Smash's harmless fantasy violence. These include characters such as Bethesda's Doom Slayer from the DOOM franchise and the star of this piece, NetherRealm Studios's Scorpion from the Mortal Kombat franchise. Though while the Doom Slayer does appear to have a cult following and an understanding of plausibility from the core Smash speculation scene, Scorpion is perceived in the opposite fashion. However, many of these skepticisms are based on multiple pieces of misinformation, of which this piece will dissect, debunk, and prove that this hellspawn ninja is more precedent than you may first think.

Before we start, what even is Mortal Kombat? And why is it important?
View attachment 306760 View attachment 306766
Mortal Kombat is a fighting game series by the now-defunct Midway Studios that first hit arcade cabinets in October of 1992. Between its current rivals of SNK's Fatal Fury and Capcom's Street Fighter II, it was a smash hit. It was praised for its, at the time, realistic graphics using digitized renders of real-life actors that were filmed and then converted into the game and violent trademark Fatality ending moves that depicted graphic ways to kill your opponent after winning the match. In the United States, it had even usurped Street Fighter II during the holiday season of its release year just three months after its release. By the time it had gained its notoriety in the United States for its graphic violence in the 1993 Congressional hearings, 3 million units were already distributed. I'll get back to the hearings soon.

View attachment 306765
Grabbed from magazine Play Meter Vol. 18, no. 13, December '92.
It was such a smash hit that it had spawned an entirely new genre of fighting games that used its art style of digitized actors; similar to how Fatal Fury and Street Fighter's success spawned a wave of less successful imitators. Surprisingly, even Capcom had tried it with their two different versions of the video game adaptation of their movie adaptation of Street Fighter II. Mortal Kombat had countless sequels since its inception, with the trilogy of Mortal Kombat, Mortal Kombat II, and Mortal Kombat III (and its update UMK3) continuing to dominate the arcade charts for years while being critically acclaimed by critics and gamers alike. And on top of that, home console versions were also selling millions of units per entry with great reviews. It was on the SEGA Genesis and Super Nintendo, where although the SNES MK1 was notorious for having its blood permanently censored (the Genesis version was also censored, but had a well-known blood-enabling cheat code), the blood returned for all future installments, which is one of the first seeds of misinformation being how much Nintendo actually supported its graphic content at the time. The awkward handling of the first game's port was mainly due to...

The 1993 Congressional Hearings and the Present Day Kombat

The U.S. Senate held a hearing discussing violent video game franchises in December of 1993 and March of 1994. These meetings discussed the concerns of parents who believed that violent video games would have a negative effect on children as the technology evolved to display more graphic scenes in realistic fashions in an unregulated manner. To Congress, they believed that the industry was purposefully marketing violent content to children and threatened to take action. Four games were brought into the spotlight: SEGA's Night Trap, ID Software's DOOM, Konami's Lethal Enforcers, and of course, Mortal Kombat. These hearings forced the industry to create the ESRB rating system we have today in the United States.

Mortal Kombat by this point had become the most well-known violent video game. And though that would seem to detract it from audiences, the Kombat train was still going stronger than ever. By the turn of the century, home console versions of Mortal Kombat Trilogy and its first dive into 3D with Mortal Kombat 4 were well-received and sold well. However, the series had begun to enter a decline entering the 2000s, selling fewer copies per entry, and eventually, the main publisher of the franchise Midway Studios became defunct in 2009. However, the series was purchased by WB Interactive and repurposed as NetherRealm Studios, and the franchise made a massive rebound when Mortal Kombat (also known as MK9) released in 2011. It alone saved the franchise after being acquired by WB and launched a new era for the series.

Following to the present day, Mortal Kombat 11 is beloved and is currently recorded to have sold over 8 million copies as of October 2020. It had even won Best Fighting Game in The Game Awards 2020. It is still going strong with a recently enhanced version for next-gen consoles on Xbox Series X and PS5. It has also been a juggernaut outside of the gaming scene. This is partially thanks to Warner Bros. owning the series and allowing it to flourish in multimedia formats. There have been comics, figures, cartoons, collaborations with DC, and currently three movies full-length with an upcoming fourth one in production. It is far bigger than one would initially expect.

That is practically all of the history you need to know of the series, but that doesn't solve why many believe a Mortal Kombat character is improbable. It has to do with misinformation being spread about various things. For starters...


The ESRB is only applied in North America. For Europe, there is PEGI. For Japan, their rendition is the CERO, which rates games slightly differently than how we do in the West. Mortal Kombat has an M-Rating in the ESRB. That equivalent in Japan's CERO would be a D rating, which is where the Metal Gear Solid and Bayonetta games are placed. Therefore, Mortal Kombat would also be in the same ranking, right? Not quite. Due to its excessive violence and gore, it actually receives a Z rating, the maximum rating that is equivalent to the ESRB's AO (Adult Only) ranking. However, certain acts of violence such as decapitation and massive amounts of blood loss are strictly prohibited and would have to be changed. Even the games listed above have some sort of censored violence that is uncensored in the Western release. Another example would be the No More Heroes franchise, where excessive blood is replaced with enemies turning into blackened ash.

Despite this, Mortal Kombat still exists in Japan.

I've seen articles everywhere discussing bans on Mortal Kombat, saying that it's been prohibited from release. This isn't the case, the newer entries are simply unlocalized or were canceled releases, not outright bans. It isn't that Japan is banning these games from ever reaching store shelves, it is that WB Interactive doesn't want to pursue heavy censoring just to enter that market. However, that doesn't stop any Japanese player from playing any Mortal Kombat, even after the last official Japanese release being Mortal Kombat Trilogy on the PSX. In 2002, there was a televised tournament where Japanese players tried to defeat a blind American in Mortal Kombat: Deception, despite it never being localized. The blind player won, by the way.

Furthermore, there are two easy ways to play Mortal Kombat as a Japanese player:
  1. Import the games. It's been done with both Mortal Kombat X and Mortal Kombat 11. You can do it on all platforms, even Switch.​
  2. Play on PC, because CERO only regulates console releases. MKX and MK11 are available on Japanese Steam services.​
An audience for Mortal Kombat in Japan is also precedent. Although it is a more underground scene, you can find content either on YouTube or nicovideo where Mortal Kombat is being played. and the view count is substantial in thousands and sometimes millions. My point is that a player base exists in Japan. Of course, an official localization would mean more, especially to a Japanese company such as Nintendo. But they do know. In fact...

Nintendo is actually into Mortal Kombat and wanted it on Switch.

At least, this was Nintendo of America's interests. When WB Interactive introduced MK11, they were concerned that the mature title would conflict with Nintendo's family-friendly console. However, they persisted that they actively wanted this title on their platform and were confident in their sales. Below is the panel from NoA representative Scott Hawkins and his discussion of Mortal Kombat 11's success on Nintendo Switch (the stream is in Portuguese, but the voices are in English):


And they were very much correct. Mortal Kombat 11 has sold extremely well on Nintendo Switch and even toppled Breath of the Wild and Super Mario Odyssey, even being yet another million unit best-seller. Go into the eShop right now and you will still find MK11 on their best-selling section of listed games still after being on the platform for over a year now. While graphically the game is lacking, it is a technical marvel for a Switch game and went well beyond Nintendo's original expectations, which was already positive. What does this tell us?

Nintendo is aware. Nintendo knows that there is an audience for Kombat.

As long as CERO remains the same, Mortal Kombat will likely not see an official localization on Switch. But that is fine. Mortal Kombat was never even translated for its 90's era localizations; they're all in English. The knowledge that Nintendo has about the cultural icon that is Mortal Kombat is enough. You can argue adding a character such as Scorpion detracts from the charm of Mortal Kombat's violent themes, but that is similar to characters like the Doom Slayer or Ryu Hayabusa where violence held a key component in aspects of their games. It is not needed to fulfill the character, the character itself is represented to celebrate the video game industry, and this would be selling one of the best-selling fighting games to date; the third rival after Fatal Fury and Street Fighter.

Final Words

The main message of this piece is not to say that Scorpion is a must-have that everyone must accept and open their eyes to. The cultural challenges of Mortal Kombat have persevered and clashed with Japan, but that doesn't make him an impossible inclusion, especially not the fact that it is an American creation that mostly sticks Western. After all, Banjo Kazooie is prominently known to be a bigger success in the Western market than in Japan. Four playable characters in the game are designed by Western companies (with Dark Samus being one American-designed character). SNK (and by translation, what Terry Bogard brought) dominated the Latin-American scene with the NEOGEO more than its Asian scene. Much like how a series that's predominantly popular in Japan that isn't so paraded in the West can and has gotten into Smash, the reverse can apply, and Mortal Kombat is a shining example.

Mortal Kombat's history might appear to paint it in a negative light, but the inclusion of the rating systems has benefitted the gaming industry; as it had prevented government involvement in the industry that could have done far worse. Nowadays, the games and series that were once brought to court in 1993 are beloved. You can buy DOOM and Night Trap on Nintendo Switch eShops today. To say that Scorpion would be impossible is to also assume that the Doom Slayer must also be impossible, even if he was able to localize into the Japanese market.

Again, I am not saying to expect Scorpion or to think he's a priority. I am saying that with the information we have of him, we understand that Nintendo recognizes the Mortal Kombat franchise and respects it. They understand both it and its history as both one of the biggest fighting games and game series in history. My goal was to correct the constant misinformation I have heard about him and to clarify that the shaky history of the franchise overseas does not disqualify him or any other Kombatant. And I hope I was able to deliver.

Just don't be surprised if the day comes where Mario gets hooked by a kunai and dragged away to Hell Netherrealm in a Smash trailer. :bowsette:

Venus of the Desert Bloom Venus of the Desert Bloom Can I get the transparent S/B logo stamp to add onto this to totally make it legit? :nifty:
It’s costs about $250 for use of our Smashboards logo stamp.
 

Guynamednelson

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In 2002, there was a televised tournament where Japanese players tried to defeat a blind American in Mortal Kombat: Deception
Good article, but here's a problem: Deception didn't exist in 2002.
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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I refuse to believe you.

Either way I was able to copy the style of front page article pictures enough anyway, I'm chillin.
also your first born, any kitties you may have, your social security number, and a plate of moderately yummy waffles. It’s a high price to pay for a brand as high as ours.
 

Will

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gaia_the_fierce_knight__render__by_alanmac95_ddmyk3d-fullview.png


I'm still surprised everyone lost a blind guy.

Also I was right, it was Deception, but it was the year I got wrong. I don't know why I ****ed that up but oh well. I'm going to bed, that took like four hours to write and compile and me being sleep deprived is probably why I fumbled that part up.
 
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Þe 1 → Way

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Wouldn’t You Like To Know?
Real talk, Psycho Mantis would be amazing character/boss to have.
His taunts could be like a mini Palutenas Guidence where he throws shade against his opponent. Even commenting on some popular Switch games and other Stats provided you have them.

His Final Smash could be him reading your credit card number, expiration date, and the three digits on the back. :4pacman:
 

Cutie Gwen

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View attachment 306782

I'm still surprised everyone lost a blind guy.

Also I was right, it was Deception, but it was the year I got wrong. I don't know why I ****ed that up but oh well. I'm going to bed, that took like four hours to write and compile and me being sleep deprived is probably why I fumbled that part up.
The FGC is surprisingly popular among the visually impaired, here's a really interesting article about it
It's genuinely amazing finding out this is actually highly accessible despite what you'd think
Then how come you got away scot-free, family man? Sounds like you're abusing the system. :191: I'm calling the cops.
Who says his daughter's his first born and not the second?
 

Dan Quixote

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I told you I was doing it, I just never told you when. Y'all gonna learn today. Bootleg Smashboards article time.

View attachment 306751
I wanna make a point I've never really gotten to share before. I've seen lots of people make the argument that heavily censoring the violence of MK if Sub-Zero or Scorpion were to get in would miss the whole point of MK and not be a proper representation of the series. I can see where they're coming from since gore is what made MK a household name. But honestly I think the feeling can still be accomplished with animation. Just like how Ryu and Ken use sound effects from their source game, a Mortal Kombat fighter could just be animated in such a way that their punches land with a ton of power and maybe make some bone cracking noises for the big ones. Basically I think it's very possible to have E10+ rated violence in this game.
 

Golden Icarus

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I wanna make a point I've never really gotten to share before. I've seen lots of people make the argument that heavily censoring the violence of MK if Sub-Zero or Scorpion were to get in would miss the whole point of MK and not be a proper representation of the series.
The idea that blood and gore would be necessary for an MK character in Smash sounds pretty silly to me.

Scorpion, Sub-Zero, and Raiden were featured in Injustice and fit in perfectly fine. Also, the MK movie (1995) was PG13 and that film is still beloved by fans. The blood, gore, and fatalities are far from necessary.
 
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