Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Commander_Alph]

Bro we got guns you worrying about the wrong type of violence.

I meant that there's a boundary between slapstick and fantasy violence to a brutal fist fight, I think the gun argument is already really flimsy that you don't really need to point that out because one is a replica that didn't even shoot real bullet and the other is heavily stylized that you can't get it from your local gun store

 

[Cutie Gwen]

that doesn't sound very tame...

At most, it'd just set them on fire before they get deleted from the stage.

 

[Garteam]

If Ridley and Sephiroth are both allowed to have attacks that are deliberately meant to look like they're impaling their opponents, I don't see why Scorpion breathing fire or Sub-Zero freezing someone are too big a bridge to cross.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If Ridley and Sephiroth are both allowed to have attacks that are deliberately meant to look like they're impaling their opponents, I don't see why Scorpion breathing fire or Sub-Zero freezing someone are too big a bridge to cross.

To add on to this, Ridley's trailer had him crush Mario's head with a fitting sound effect yet they didn't need to add a higher age rating for it

 

[Will]

that doesn't sound very tame...

We have Pokeball Pokemon who do this. Fennekin does it. Entei used to do it in Melee.

I meant that there's a boundary between slapstick and fantasy violence to a brutal fist fight, I think the gun argument is already really flimsy that you don't really need to point that out because one is a replica that didn't even shoot real bullet and the other is heavily stylized that you can't get it from your local gun store

Being combo'd by someone from a violent game translated into fantasy violence is still going to have fantasy violence. We have brutal cahracters, Scorpion's existence isn't going to break the fabric of Smash is my point.

 

[Gengar84]

If Ridley and Sephiroth are both allowed to have attacks that are deliberately meant to look like they're impaling their opponents, I don't see why Scorpion breathing fire or Sub-Zero freezing someone are too big a bridge to cross.

I still wish they had made Sephiroth’s grab the sword impale he did to Mario in the trailer but I think that probably would have been a bit too mature.

 

[Otoad64]

We have Pokeball Pokemon who do this. Fennekin does it. Entei used to do it in Melee.

does Fennekin burn off people's flesh? It's not the fire breathing part that isn't tame

 

[Michael the Spikester]

To add on to this, Ridley's trailer had him crush Mario's head with a fitting sound effect yet they didn't need to add a higher age rating for it

So if this is the case why is violence debate even a thing to begin with?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I still wish they had made Sephiroth’s grab the sword impale he did to Mario in the trailer but I think that probably would have been a bit too mature.

Honestly he kind of already does that for his up tilt if you get the scoop hitbox

 

[cashregister9]

I don't even want a Mortal Kombat character but even I know that for Scorpion or Sub-zero their attacks are less overtly gorey than someone like Kano or Liu Kang. Censoring either of them would not be that hard or even that big of a deal.

 

[Will]

does Fennekin burn off people's flesh? It's not the fire breathing part that isn't tame

They wouldn't animate the flesh burning, they would just disappear after 100% like any other fatal final Smash. Ridley and K. Rool do this too. I wasn't ever expecting them to want that lmao that takes too much programming.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So if this is the case why is violence debate even a thing to begin with?

Because people are dumb like how Zhao Yun's impossible because he's public domain, why Saber's origins mean she can't be in Smash because the company who made a deal with playboy would refuse to accept something with sex involved, etc.

 

[Will]

So if this is the case why is violence debate even a thing to begin with?

Usually it's boogeyman gatekeeping

 

[PeridotGX]

would a Mortal Kombat character have fighting game inputs like Terry and the Shotos?

 

[Schnee117]

would a Mortal Kombat character have fighting game inputs like Terry and the Shotos?

Maybe.
They'd probably work more like Terry's "shortcuts" for his supers though given that's how Mortal Kombat has them.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I know it probably means nothing but anyone got that Smash Bros. mobile game copyright? Wanna bookmark it for reference...

 

[Gengar84]

Because people are dumb like how Zhao Yun's impossible because he's public domain, why Saber's origins mean she can't be in Smash because the company who made a deal with playboy would refuse to accept something with sex involved, etc.

Lu Bu is one of my most wanted so I really hope you’re right about the fact he is based on a real person not being a barrier to making it Smash. Zhao Yun is a little bland to me. It would be like getting Liu Kang instead of Scorpion or Sub-Zero but I’d gladly accept him as well for the amazing music he would bring.

 

[cashregister9]

I know it probably means nothing but anyone got that Smash Bros. mobile game copyright? Wanna bookmark it for reference...

Yeah I can't find anything about that. Do you remember anymore details?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Lu Bu is one of my most wanted so I really hope you’re right about the fact he is based on a real person not being a barrier to making it Smash. Zhao Yun is a little bland to me. It would be like getting Liu Kang instead of Scorpion or Sub-Zero but I’d gladly accept him as well for the amazing music he would bring.

Lu Bu's in the exact same boat, he's a fictionalized version of a real person who's legally in the public domain. Like Dracula

 

[MagnesD3]

I still think Plant takes the cake for most boring DLC character to play.

And then that's followed by Banjo and Min Min

Idk all of those characters are at least unique, (although I do agree min min is pretty boring though since all her moves do basically the same thing lol)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Yeah I can't find anything about that. Do you remember anymore details?

It was written as “SUPER SMASH BROTHERS” or “SMASH BROTHERS” iirc. It wasn’t abbreviated as Bros. Also I’m 99% sure the trademark was registered in 2019, and had something denoting it was for mobile devices

 

[Technomage]

View attachment 306770

This is me 110%.
WHERE'S MY EARTHWORM JIM?!

Yeah, Earthworm Jim would be an interesting and funny fighter. Though personally, I might prefer Boogerman due to him having more potential for toilet humor. XD

 

[Arcadenik]

Yeah, Earthworm Jim would be an interesting and funny fighter. Though personally, I might prefer Boogerman due to him having more potential for toilet humor. XD

That reminds me... I still hate Wario’s down special.

I wanted something from Wario Land games, not toilet humor.

That move would be fitting for Boogerman... why did Sakurai do that to Wario?

 

[Technomage]

That reminds me... I still hate Wario’s down special.

I wanted something from Wario Land games, not toilet humor.

That move would be fitting for Boogerman... why did Sakurai do that to Wario?

Well to be fair, he's actually weaponized his farts before Brawl (he did that in Mario Strikers Charged). Plus, the Waft actually fits Wario's character (not only because of his stench and bad hygeine, but also because of his love for toilet humor).

 

[Arcadenik]

Well to be fair, he's actually weaponized his farts before Brawl (he did that in Mario Strikers Charged). Plus, the Waft actually fits Wario's character (not only because of his stench and bad hygeine, but also because of his love for toilet humor).

Ah! I wanted Wario Land Wario, not Toilet Humor Wario.

 

[RoboFist]

Being combo'd by someone from a violent game translated into fantasy violence is still going to have fantasy violence. We have brutal cahracters, Scorpion's existence isn't going to break the fabric of Smash is my point.

While I 100% do not see Mortal Kombat ever getting a playable rep in Smash, I also completely see what you and others are saying about translating "brutal" violence into "fantasy" violence. Look at characters like Incineroar or even Mii Brawler. They have "realistic" attacks that are presented as over-the-top, but that doesn't mean those same attacks wouldn't look gruesome in a more realistic fighting game.

Sephiroth's down Smash is a blatant reference to the brutal murder of a beloved character. Snake's grab is a direct reference to putting someone in a chokehold and even snapping their neck, right up to gently laying their lifeless body on the ground. And I don't care if The Lore states that it's techbically not real, for all intents and purposes, in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Joker wields a gun.

In Bayonetta's home game, she literally has Torture Attacks, which were designed to be basically Fatalities with more flair. She also swears like a sailor and spends half the game nude. She's in Smash.

Again, it's just that Japan doesn't give a s*** about Mortal Kombat. If it was as huge over there as your Street Fighters or Personas, then I could absolutely see Sakurai making it work.

 

[Schnee117]

In Bayonetta's home game, she literally has Torture Attacks, which were designed to be basically Fatalities with more flair. She also swears like a sailor and spends half the game nude. She's in Smash.

Bayo's another good example of translating a violent attack into Smash because her Gomorrah summon doesn't turn the fighters into bloody chunks like it does with all the angels and demons in the original games.

 

[SharkLord]

I could see Scorpion and friends(?) happening, but they'd have to be a heavy Western-appeal pick. Very big in the West, underground in Japan. We know that Nintendo wanted MK11 on their system, but it wasn't officially localized and players over there would either need to import the game or play it on Steam. It could happen, but there's some roadblocks in the way.

 

[RoboFist]

Bayo's another good example of translating a violent attack into Smash because her Gomorrah summon doesn't turn the fighters into bloody chunks like it does with all the angels and demons in the original games.

Same with All Out Attack, replacing the spewing blood with pretty stars.

If Nintendo wants it and Sakurai wants it, it can happen.

 

[RileyXY1]

Western-appeal picks have typically been reserved for the base roster, like Little Mac and Ridley.

 

[Otoad64]

Western-appeal picks have typically been reserved for the base roster, like Little Mac and Ridley.

except when they aren't

 

[Gengar84]

Western-appeal picks have typically been reserved for the base roster, like Little Mac and Ridley.

To be fair, we did get Banjo in the last Fighter’s Pass. I believe Steve is also western but he has more global appeal.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

View attachment 306770

This is me 110%.
WHERE'S MY EARTHWORM JIM?!

As much as I enjoy Earthworm Jim, the less Doug TenAppel I see or hear from the better.

 

[RileyXY1]

I actually expect both of the remaining characters to be from Japanese companies.

 

[Gengar84]

I actually expect both of the remaining characters to be from Japanese companies.

I’m okay with that. There are a ton of characters I’d really love, both western and Japanese.

 

[Golden Icarus]

Honestly, while a Japanese presence is important, Ultimate has gone out of its way to give the Western audience plenty of love. Ridley, K. Rool, Dark Samus, Banjo. While these characters still exist in Japan, they were definitely more intended for the West. Also, Little Mac. Most Japanese players had no clue who he even was.

I still tend to agree that Mortal Kombat has some hurdles, but given that it’s had a strong presense for about thirty years straight and has managed to surpass both Street Fighter and Tekken as the all time best selling fighting game franchise (second only to Smash) is enough to consider it a possibility. With Sakurai’s deep love for fighting games, it isn’t crazy to think that Scorpion has crossed his mind before.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I don't see why they wouldn't just make Scorpion's FS his original Fatality where he takes off his mask and breaths fire. It's not R-rated at all.

 

[RileyXY1]

Honestly, while a Japanese presence is important, Ultimate has gone out of its way to give the Western audience plenty of love. Ridley, K. Rool, Dark Samus, Banjo. While these characters still exist in Japan, they were definitely more intended for the West. Also, Little Mac. Most Japanese players had no clue who he even was.

I still tend to agree that Mortal Kombat has some hurdles, but given that it’s had a strong presense for about thirty years straight and has managed to surpass both Street Fighter and Tekken as the all time best selling fighting game franchise (second only to Smash) is enough to consider it a possibility. With Sakurai’s deep love for fighting games, it isn’t crazy to think that Scorpion has crossed his mind before.

I believe that if Smash gets another Fighting game rep it will either be an Arc System Works character or another Street Fighter character.

 

[SKX31]

Lu Bu is one of my most wanted so I really hope you’re right about the fact he is based on a real person not being a barrier to making it Smash. Zhao Yun is a little bland to me. It would be like getting Liu Kang instead of Scorpion or Sub-Zero but I’d gladly accept him as well for the amazing music he would bring.

We do have fictionalized versions of real people already in Smash:

* Dr. Kawasaki (That polygon DS head and star of Brain Age) is the real neuroscientist Dr. Kawasaki.

* Nintendo's GBA game Napoleon has a Spirit in the game. Safe to say, the real Napoleon did not fight yetis. (Sidenote: The Napoleon game was devved by Intelligent System. I wouldn't mind a FE with a different setting, whether drawing inspiration from other parts of the world or drawing from different eras than the standard medieval sword and sorcery).

* Dracula's a weird case where the character of Dracula might've not been based on a real person directly, but Bram Stoker took a lot of influence from English / Welsh lore about vampires and mixed in a couple Romanian elements like Dracula's name (while Stoker did borrow Vlad Tepes' name, there's not many similarities between the 15th century ruler and the vampire - then again, I wouldn't be surprised if Vlad's reputation for cruelty did inform Stoker's decision to use his name) and Transylvania as a setting.

That reminds me... I still hate Wario’s down special.

I wanted something from Wario Land games, not toilet humor.

That move would be fitting for Boogerman... why did Sakurai do that to Wario?

I can answer from a gameplay perspective:

I think the intent was because most of Wario's moves are not typical "(Super)Heavy" moves. Most SuperHeavy moves are designed to hurt when they land - F-Air, F-Tilt, U-Air, you get the picture where the intent is. Not though. A lot of his moves don't have the sheer knockback other SuperHeavies have. Wario's F-Tilt doesn't knock people as far back as Bowser's although the sweep low-profiles and can 2 frame. His F-Air is not the huge swing DK's is, although it discombobulates and sets up follow ups well. Wario's U-Air doesn't have the sheer knockback K. Rool's has, although that makes it a good combo / juggle tool.

The only "Typical" (Super)Heavy moves are his Smash attacks, but they're not the fastest and carry a lot of risk to them. His new Dash attack also kinda counts, although it kills a bit later than the Smashes.

That's where Waft comes into the picture. Sure, it might be immature as all hell, but the gameplay intent is to introduce a ticking time bomb. If you find yourself behind in a match vs. Wario early, suddenly the match becomes an uneasy mind-game situation, especially when a cunning Wario player can snowball that advantage by landing a Waft. Faster than even Bowser can kill a second stock typically.

The intent was very likely to create an atypical heavy whose solution is not "Hit 'em really, really hard" the standard way.

FTR, I wouldn't mind seeing Waft gone - it overcentralizes Wario's gameplan IMHO and kills dummy early (especially once one learns the setups). But if you remove Waft, you'll have to compensate with something else that fits him or his gameplan as an atypical Heavy.

One thing the past patch did well was to nerf Waft's sheer speed, so there weren't as many confirms into it. Believe me, there were a lot of confirms into Waft before this patch (Up-Tilt -> Waft just to name one) and Wario already has a really solid combo and pressure game as well as stupidly good aerial mobility. Now Wario players at least have to be more creative with the setups.

I could see Scorpion and friends(?) happening, but they'd have to be a heavy Western-appeal pick. Very big in the West, underground in Japan. We know that Nintendo wanted MK11 on their system, but it wasn't officially localized and players over there would either need to import the game or play it on Steam. It could happen, but there's some roadblocks in the way.

Which is a major shame, especially since I could see a MK manga / anime working out perfectly well, and go from there essentially.

 

[Gengar84]

I believe that if Smash gets another Fighting game rep it will either be an Arc System Works character or another Street Fighter character.

I’m personally hoping for Killer Instinct but that isn’t very likely. I think Scorpion, Sub-Zero, or Nightmare would be awesome additions.