Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Wigglerman]

In regards to Augumon I feel that they'd do what most Digimon games do and just use Warp Digivolution to bypass the Champion/Ultimate forms. Happens in Rumble Arena games, for example. While that would be the least ideal solution if it meant Agumon got to be in the game then I'd be down for it. I'd imagine though that the mechanic would work similar to Arsen in some way.

As battle goes on his Digivolution/Spirit Gauge would fill and when it is maxed you can activate it (or it'd auto activate) to transform into Wargreymon for a period of time (As Tamer digimom typically are not able to retain their digivolutions for long anyway as they're not achieving them naturally and aren't acclimated to the power/maintaining such forms indefinitely).

So if they went this route I'd be fine but still a tad sad. Though honestly Greymon/Metalgreymon don't feel like worthwhile effort since they'd be essentially the same character with maybe a few different specials at most, weight difference and maybe a third jump due to the wings. Almost 'filler' forms in some regard I spose. That and I struggle to even think of a recovery move for Greymon anyway. Even Agumon I struggle to think of a recover move outside of him doing an Olimar/Dunk Hunt and maybe having Patamon/Biyomon grab him and flap flap their way back to the stage (Unless they just give him some uppercut move. Or he could, maybe, pepperbreath downwards and 'propel' himself up from it but I dunno).

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I was thinking earlier that in addition to all of this, that maybe Nintendo decided to double dip on both MS & Square.

If FP2 is just bonus stuff extended into a full pass, it’s possible that getting someone else from MS/Square while finishing negotiations for Steve/Sephiroth was easier than getting other companies involved.

On paper that seems like a complete lack of diversity in this pass. But all of the MS choices (Chief, Ori, other Rare characters) would differ from what we’ve gotten so far. While someone like 2B or Lara from Square would as well.

Don't do that. Don't give me hope.

 

[RoboFist]

Happy Mario Day, everyone! A friendly reminder that we've never once gotten his original NES outfit as an alt in any Smash game despite being arguably his second most-iconic color combo, a fact that makes me unfathomably sad every time I think about it!

 

[SharkLord]

I'm not sure if it's still relevant to talk about but I just thought of something relating to the head hitbox glitch and the dark pit arrow glitch.

This is just me guessing with my little to no knowledge of game development but a lot of people are saying this relates to Reimu from Touhou possibly being the next character. I didn't know anything about Touhou but many mention this move called "Graze" that could relate to this hitbox glitch.

BUT I don't think this is the case as I also think that another possibility is that it might not have anything to do with immunity but they had to redo head damage for a new mechanic. maybe it's not meant to be a dodging mechanic but instead more damage if the player's head is hit. This may relate to headshots from FPS titles which may or may not be an indicator of Master Chief or Doom Slayer.

This may also relate to Dark Pit's arrow glitch as in FPS games you need to reload. Perhaps the glitch is from the devs testing a reload system that would hold projectiles inside the new fighter. It could also be on Dark Pit's body as ammo is often stored in magazines that many would assume a FPS character holds on their belt or waste.

But if this is true (and once again I know nothing of game development) it might not even be Master Chief or Doom Slayer as while they are the biggest contenders for an FPS rep it doesn't mean they are the only options. Maybe it could be someone from Overwatch, Fortnite, Team Fortress, Half Life, Apex Legends, Superhot, Borderlands, Quake, Modern Warfare, Apex Legends or Call of Duty.

Maybe it's not an FPS fighter but maybe a 3rd Person Shooter or an arcade shooter that also has a reload and headshot mechanic?

I'm not quite sold on character-specific glitches. It's too inconsistent, two vaguely-defined, and oftentimes a glitch is just a glitch.

I can see the projectiles, though. They apply to every fighter, which makes it seem like something was changed for projectiles as a whole. Like what everyone else has mentioned, I'm thinking either Reimu for the Graze mechanics, or a headshot feature. Granted, it's also entirely possible that it doesn't go anywhere either and is yet again just a glitch.

 

[Louie G.]

I was thinking earlier that in addition to all of this, that maybe Nintendo decided to double dip on both MS & Square.

Or how about double dipping on Microsoft and bringing in another Sega character? Add Chief for the westerners and then Arle for Japan.

Those two as a finale would be a dream.

I’ve also been considering how one of the running trends of FP2 is, like I alluded to briefly before, using what has already been available. Be it negotiating with companies in arms reach or bringing in characters of their own, Nintendo seems to have shifted gears a bit since last time.

I think keeping this in mind brings us a bit closer to the answer, although there are certainly new (smaller, Japanese) companies I can see getting characters too. Like, Koei Tecmo is still a safe bet in my book and ArcSys can definitely happen.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I'm not quite sold on character-specific glitches. It's too inconsistent, two vaguely-defined, and oftentimes a glitch is just a glitch.

I can see the projectiles, though. They apply to every fighter, which makes it seem like something was changed for projectiles as a whole. Like what everyone else has mentioned, I'm thinking either Reimu for the Graze mechanics, or a headshot feature. Granted, it's also entirely possible that it doesn't go anywhere either and is yet again just a glitch.

I'm kinda confused as this supposed headshot mechanic already exists in the game with Marth and Lucina's Shield Breaker, it's not a new, untested idea.

 

[PacificFun]

Kat would be a pretty horrid reveal reception wise. Gravity Rush isn't as "weeby" as the likes of Xenoblade and Fire Emblem, but it's anime enough to probably piss off the whole fanbase. Add that it'd be by far the most niche third party added and you got yourself a recepie for disaster.

Me personally though? I'd probably pass out for a while day.

 

[SharkLord]

I'm kinda confused as this supposed headshot mechanic already exists in the game with Marth and Lucina's Shield Breaker, it's not a new, untested idea.

Huh, you learn something every day. Guess that rules out that idea.

 

[PacificFun]

View attachment 306689
Huh, you learn something every day. Guess that rules out that idea.

To be fair, it hasn't been done with a projectile yet. And I rarely see any Marth and Lucinas pull out Sheild Breaker, let alone angled.

 

[Louie G.]

View attachment 306689
Huh, you learn something every day. Guess that rules out that idea.

I think there’s still a case to be made, it hasn’t been incorporated through projectiles before and I imagine a headshot effect would do a bit more than 1.15x damage and have some flashy visual indicator. Marth’s is more of a passive thing while if it was applied to say, Chief or Tracer they would probably make a bit more of a deal about it.

I’m not really convinced it means much, but I don’t think that take on it should be written off so easily.

 

[7NATOR]

I'm not sure if it's still relevant to talk about but I just thought of something relating to the head hitbox glitch and the dark pit arrow glitch.

This is just me guessing with my little to no knowledge of game development but a lot of people are saying this relates to Reimu from Touhou possibly being the next character. I didn't know anything about Touhou but many mention this move called "Graze" that could relate to this hitbox glitch.

BUT I don't think this is the case as I also think that another possibility is that it might not have anything to do with immunity but they had to redo head damage for a new mechanic. maybe it's not meant to be a dodging mechanic but instead more damage if the player's head is hit. This may relate to headshots from FPS titles which may or may not be an indicator of Master Chief or Doom Slayer.

This may also relate to Dark Pit's arrow glitch as in FPS games you need to reload. Perhaps the glitch is from the devs testing a reload system that would hold projectiles inside the new fighter. It could also be on Dark Pit's body as ammo is often stored in magazines that many would assume a FPS character holds on their belt or waste.

But if this is true (and once again I know nothing of game development) it might not even be Master Chief or Doom Slayer as while they are the biggest contenders for an FPS rep it doesn't mean they are the only options. Maybe it could be someone from Overwatch, Fortnite, Team Fortress, Half Life, Apex Legends, Superhot, Borderlands, Quake, Modern Warfare, Apex Legends or Call of Duty.

Maybe it's not an FPS fighter but maybe a 3rd Person Shooter or an arcade shooter that also has a reload and headshot mechanic?

One thing I found out was that apparently, Marth and Lucina already have some type of Headshot mechanic

It was recently added in Ultimate. If you use Shield Breaker and it hits an Head hitbox, it does like 1.15 of the damage. It doesn't do extra knockback however

I guess Shield breaker isn't a Projectile though, but I would think they want to use the coding from that if they were working with Headshot mechanic.

EDIT: I got Ninja'd, darn

Personally I lean more towards the grazing aspect then the Headshot thing for the Head hitbox glitch, Especially since it only activates when going forward, which is a Grazing Staple, when I imagine headshots would work no matter if someone is running or not

The Dark Pit glitch might be separate, or it might be related. I'm not sure though. I do have to wonder why it only works with Dark Pit and not Regular Pit however

 

[ahemtoday]

It's been goddamn dry around here, so here's another game. I generated 6 random codenames which make up a hypothetical FP3 datamine leak. Go ahead and assign whichever characters you think fit each of these best...

1. Queen
2. Titan
3. Gambit
4. Devil
5. Lotus
6. Bass

Well, if we're going with the first thing that comes to mind for each character, here we go.

• Makoto Niijima (Persona 5)
• Zanza (Xenoblade Chronicles)
• Hanafuda Card (Clubhouse Games)
• Jin (Tekken)
• Urza (Magic: the Gathering)
• Bass (Mega Man)

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So in other words

REIMU TIME.

I’m only HALF joking.

 

[SharkLord]

I think there’s still a case to be made, it hasn’t been incorporated through projectiles before and I imagine a headshot effect would do a bit more than 1.15x damage and have some flashy visual indicator.

I’m not really convinced it means much, but I don’t think that take on it should be written off so easily.

Maybe, but I think they could easily transfer over the "Increase damage if certain hurtbox is hit" code and put it on the projectile. It would probably be quite a bit flashier, but it's not like it's an entirely new mechanic that would require screwing around with the properties for projectiles in general.

 

[PacificFun]

Lemme try to selfishly use these two glitches in my favor.

So if the whole "grazing" thing is implying a headshot mechanic along with Dark Pit "holding" an arrow...

Lara Croft holds arrows in the Tomb Raider reboot trilogy and headshots deal more damage.

Done

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think there’s still a case to be made, it hasn’t been incorporated through projectiles before and I imagine a headshot effect would do a bit more than 1.15x damage and have some flashy visual indicator. Marth’s is more of a passive thing while if it was applied to say, Chief or Tracer they would probably make a bit more of a deal about it.

I’m not really convinced it means much, but I don’t think that take on it should be written off so easily.

But wouldn't this supposed flashy visual only be used by the character? They'd tie the visual effect to the moves that character uses and not change the entire mechanic, right?

 

[dream1ng]

When was the last time one of these glitches actually resulted in the character we thought it would?

 

[SharkLord]

But wouldn't this supposed flashy visual only be used by the character? They'd tie the visual effect to the moves that character uses and not change the entire mechanic, right?

Yeah, they'd make it just for those specific projectiles, with some extra effects to emphasize it.

...Unless we've got it all wrong. What if the fighter themselves are weak to headshots, and not the other way around?

...No, that won't work. Bowser Jr. already has that with his own hitbox and the Clown Car. They can just reuse that, so they won't need to experiment with it.

 

[Golden Icarus]

• Bass (Mega Man)

I love the idea of Bass being used as codename, only for it to not even be a codename. It literally just means Bass.

 

[SpecterFlower]

Here is my list of Smash veterans for a new Smash title. Worth noting that I will be including Echo fighters if the original fighter is present.
My choices are based on the character's legacy, their importance to their series, and their likely future.

Spoiler: Returning Smash Veterans

Super Mario:
Donkey Kong:
Legend of Zelda:
Metroid:
Yoshi:
Kirby:
Star Fox:
Pokemon:
Mother:
F-Zero:
Fire Emblem:
Kid Icarus:
Wario Ware/Land:
Pikmin:
Animal Crossing:
Punch Out:
Xenoblade:
ARMS:
Retro:
Third Party:

39 Smash veterans not including Echo Fighters.
That's the same number of fighters in Brawl.
Feel free to critique and ask questions and I'll answer to the best of my ability.

I would prioritixe duck hunt ovr little mac, as both are characters who's golden agehas long sincepassed duck hunt is the immensly more popular character

for the record duck hunt sold 30 million-ish copies, just 10 less than mario bros and 25 more than the original legend of zelda.

so i would say for the legacy duck hunt is the most important retro rep. (game & watch is second though)

 

[SharkLord]

I love the idea of Bass being used as codename, only for it to not even be a codename. It literally just means Bass.

And it's not Bass, as in the character. It's literally just a random photorealistic largemouth bass.

 

[7NATOR]

When was the last time one of these glitches actually resulted in the character we thought it would?

There may have been people that were thinking the Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt glitch were for Dragon Quest and Banjo, but I think more people looked at that after them both got in

To be honest, I think our guess at what a particular glitch means have not been correct to my knowledge. Personally I do think the Glitch theory does have merit to it, it's just that it doesn't usually lead to specific characters, just that one of the next characters will take that specific aspect

I think with this Head Hitbox glitch thing, it might be easier to pin point since I think what this glitch implies is much more specific to sub-set of characters, but the Dark Pit thing is unsure to be honest

 

[Pillow]

I'm kinda confused as this supposed headshot mechanic already exists in the game with Marth and Lucina's Shield Breaker, it's not a new, untested idea.

I also didn’t know this existed....is Kirbys head hit box his entire character model ?

It’s nice that this is around if they decide to add any FPS character. Headshots are a shooter staple.

 

[SharkLord]

When was the last time one of these glitches actually resulted in the character we thought it would?

None, actually. At this rate it might as well just be the Beheaded from Dead Cells, and the invincible head thing is the team trying to figure out how to handle his complete lack of head.

 

[GothicSlenderman]

One thing I found out was that apparently, Marth and Lucina already have some type of Headshot mechanic

It was recently added in Ultimate. If you use Shield Breaker and it hits an Head hitbox, it does like 1.15 of the damage. It doesn't do extra knockback however

I guess Shield breaker isn't a Projectile though, but I would think they want to use the coding from that if they were working with Headshot mechanic.

EDIT: I got Ninja'd, darn

Personally I lean more towards the grazing aspect then the Headshot thing for the Head hitbox glitch, Especially since it only activates when going forward, which is a Grazing Staple, when I imagine headshots would work no matter if someone is running or not

The Dark Pit glitch might be separate, or it might be related. I'm not sure though. I do have to wonder why it only works with Dark Pit and not Regular Pit however

These are all good points as well. It's hard to really say. We'd just be guessing honestly.

 

[Speed Weed]

And it's not Bass, as in the character. It's literally just a random photorealistic largemouth bass.

Of all the Nintendo games out there that haven't had their shot yet at a playable character

Among the likes of Rhythm Heaven, Astral Chain, Golden Sun and Advance Wars

Our next one to get a character was Shigesato Itoi's Bass Fishing for the SNES all along

This

This is the greatest timeline

 

[GolisoPower]

When was the last time one of these glitches actually resulted in the character we thought it would?

Building on what 7NATOR said, there was also a glitch with the Belmonts' whip and Bayonetta's Wicked Weaves that respectively tied them to Byleth and Min Min.

Granted, we already knew an ARMS fighter was coming when the glitch was uncovered, with it being a clean split between Min Min and Twintelle, but for those two, Bayonetta seemed to have fit both.

 

[dream1ng]

There may have been people that were thinking the Mii Swordfighter and Duck Hunt glitch were for Dragon Quest and Banjo, but I think more people looked at that after them both got in

But Banjo didn't use Duck Hunt as base, he used Ridley. Hero I'm less sure about, but didn't he use Link?

To be honest, I think our guess at what a particular glitch means have not been correct to my knowledge. Personally I do think the Glitch theory does have merit to it, it's just that it doesn't usually lead to specific characters, just that one of the next characters will take that specific aspect

I think with this Head Hitbox glitch thing, it might be easier to pin point since I think what this glitch implies is much more specific to sub-set of characters, but the Dark Pit thing is unsure to be honest

I guess we'll see should we get a character that has some headshot mechanic or whatever is being anticipated. It just seems a little questionable to get too caught up in glitch theories after so few (maybe none?) have paid off.

None, actually. At this rate it might as well just be the Beheaded from Dead Cells, and the invincible head thing is the team trying to figure out how to handle his complete lack of head.

Well, there you go.

Beheaded would be cool. But I imagine he would still have head hurtboxes where that swirly part is.

Building on what 7NATOR said, there was also a glitch with the Belmonts' whip and Bayonetta's Wicked Weaves that respectively tied them to Byleth and Min Min.

Granted, we already knew an ARMS fighter was coming when the glitch was uncovered, with it being a clean split between Min Min and Twintelle, but for those two, Bayonetta seemed to have fit both.

But Min Min used Captain Falcon as base. Not sure who Byleth used.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't know if we are getting an FPS character, mostly due to the genre not being popular in Japan and I don't know if they would double dip on Microsoft reps this pass.

 

[SKX31]

I wanna do my own take on code names too, these require some thinking outside the box
1. Essence
2. Planet
3. Story
4. Reaper
5. Escape
6. Adept

I'll join in on the fun again:

1. Installation
2. Ziggurat
3. Tiger
4. Sting
5. Shrine
6. Ragna

Well, if we're going with the first thing that comes to mind for each character, here we go.

• Hanafuda Card (Clubhouse Games)

Plus points for the true OG first party.

 

[JustPlainDan]

Here's a funner game. Name all the characters from each company you want in Smash until you can't think of anymore.

Nintendo
Ocarina of Time Adult Link
Masked Link (Deku, Goron and Zora Link)

Konami
Cormano

Sega
Axel Stone
Tails
Dr. Eggman
Gunstar Red/Blue
Vectorman

Capcom
Arthur
Dante
Chris Redfield
Amaterasu
Amingo
Viewtiful Joe

Namco
Klonoa
Nightmare
Jin Kazama

Square Enix
Sora
Geno
Ark
Crono
Serge
Squall

Microsoft
Joanna Dark
Fulgore

SNK
Kyo Kusanagi
Simea

Nintendo: Toad, Waluigi, Scizor, Gardevoir, Zoroark, Impa, Dixie Kong, Bandanna Waddle Dee, Isaac, Krystal

Ubisoft: Rayman, Ezio Auditore da Firenze

Capcom: Leon, Chris, Jill, Wesker, Phoenix Wright, Miles Edgeworth, Dante, Chun Li, M. Bison, Amaterasu, MH Rep, Viewtiful Joe

Sega: Dr Eggman, Tales, Knuckles, Amy, Shadow, Virtua Fighter Rep, Aiai

Konami: Alucard, Pyramid Head, Bomberman

Disney: Sora

Activision/Blizzard: Crash, Spyro, Tracer

Indie: Undertale Rep

 

[GolisoPower]

But Banjo didn't use Duck Hunt as base, he used Ridley. Hero I'm less sure about, but didn't he use Link?


I guess we'll see should we get a character that has some headshot mechanic or whatever is being anticipated. It just seems a little questionable to get too caught up in glitch theories after so few (maybe none?) have paid off.


Well, there you go.

Beheaded would be cool. But I imagine he would still have head hurtboxes where that swirly part is.


But Min Min used Captain Falcon as base. Not sure who Byleth used.

TBF tho, does it really matter? I mean, sure, Ridley & Captain Falcon were used as bases, but to be honest, using moves and techniques from other characters ain't unheard of. Like with Terry with FGC Inputs from Ryu & Ken, or more recently Mythra with a dodge mechanic similar to Bayonetta's.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

But Banjo didn't use Duck Hunt as base, he used Ridley. Hero I'm less sure about, but didn't he use Link?


I guess we'll see should we get a character that has some headshot mechanic or whatever is being anticipated. It just seems a little questionable to get too caught up in glitch theories after so few (maybe none?) have paid off.

But Min Min used Captain Falcon as base. Not sure who Byleth used.

I think the idea behind glitches is less that a certain glitched character is being used as a base, rather some aspect of the character is being used for a new one. Cause rhats not true its the biggest coincidence ever that all of these fighters start glitching and have a common similarity with our new fighters.

 

[dream1ng]

TBF tho, does it really matter? I mean, sure, Ridley & Captain Falcon were used as bases, but to be honest, using moves and techniques from other characters ain't unheard of. Like with Terry with FGC Inputs from Ryu & Ken, or more recently Mythra with a dodge mechanic similar to Bayonetta's.

It makes the connection thematic and not programming-based though, which makes tying the two together under glitch theory conjectural.

 

[SpecterFlower]

But Banjo didn't use Duck Hunt as base, he used Ridley. Hero I'm less sure about, but didn't he use Link?


I guess we'll see should we get a character that has some headshot mechanic or whatever is being anticipated. It just seems a little questionable to get too caught up in glitch theories after so few (maybe none?) have paid off.


Well, there you go.

Beheaded would be cool. But I imagine he would still have head hurtboxes where that swirly part is.


But Min Min used Captain Falcon as base. Not sure who Byleth used.

i don't think the base used is the only fighter they took anything from, joker's move set is like you took the entire roster of smash bros and made scrambled egg's with them.

 

[cashregister9]

And it's not Bass, as in the character. It's literally just a random photorealistic largemouth bass.

Obligatory Bruhfish/Basspog

 

[Cutie Gwen]

None, actually. At this rate it might as well just be the Beheaded from Dead Cells, and the invincible head thing is the team trying to figure out how to handle his complete lack of head.

They already know how to handle it though? Just don't give the head a hurtbox, the same thing they've done to swords, wings, tails, etc

 

[Dinoman96]

Kat would be a pretty horrid reveal reception wise. Gravity Rush isn't as "weeby" as the likes of Xenoblade and Fire Emblem, but it's anime enough to probably piss off the whole fanbase. Add that it'd be by far the most niche third party added and you got yourself a recepie for disaster.

Me personally though? I'd probably pass out for a while day.

Not to mention that people would be scratching their heads over Nintendo reaching out to Sony to put one of their characters in Smash, only for it to be someone extremely small and niche like Kat instead of their more prolific mascots like Ratchet & Clank or Kratos.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Poor Kat...

 

[SpecterFlower]

Not to mention that people would be scratching their heads over Nintendo reaching out to Sony to put one of their characters in Smash, only for it to be someone extremely small and niche like Kat instead of their more prolific mascots like Ratchet & Clank or Kratos.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Poor Kat...

poor everything from sony japan. they basically made the playstation brand fro me so i don't really care much about what sony does without them anymore.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Not to mention that people would be scratching their heads over Nintendo reaching out to Sony to put one of their characters in Smash, only for it to be someone extremely small and niche like Kat instead of their more prolific mascots like Ratchet & Clank or Kratos.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Poor Kat...

Gravity Rush deserved so much better...

poor everything from sony japan. they basically made the playstation brand fro me so i don't really care much about what sony does without them anymore.

For what it's worth, Sony's recent treatment of the Japanese market will probably come back to bite them at some point. Can't say when exactly, but I have a feeling...