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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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3BitSaurus

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Not to mention that people would be scratching their heads over Nintendo reaching out to Sony to put one of their characters in Smash, only for it to be someone extremely small and niche like Kat instead of their more prolific mascots like Ratchet & Clank or Kratos.
Huh, that's... kinda disturbing, since GR seemed to have a pretty "cult classic" status and got a decent bit of promotion. I mean, you don't get a remaster and a sequel in the same gen without at least that.

Maybe these people just play the more "realistic" looking games? Dunno.
 
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dream1ng

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But for glitch theory to hold merit, the overlap would have to involve some of the programming, and not just similar moves or overlapping motifs that might be unrelated data-wise. Given there's no tangible evidence of that between these characters, tying them together in this context is, again, conjectural.

Most of them do seem like coincidences to me. Duck Hunt and Banjo are similar thematically, but Banjo's moveset does actually resemble Ridley's more than DHD. Mii Swordfighter and Hero both have swords, but what else is new. I don't even really see the overlap between Bayo and Byleth other than getting people upset by being last. The Belmonts and Min Min seem the most related, but given the prior examples being fairly tenuous connections, it's certainly not above coincidence either, given her base is a character less obviously related. And with the lack of programming connection, using this kind of stuff to gauge future additions seems like it entails a lot of projection of what people want to see, rather than what there is actually evidence of.
 

KillerCage

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I would prioritixe duck hunt ovr little mac, as both are characters who's golden agehas long sincepassed duck hunt is the immensly more popular character

for the record duck hunt sold 30 million-ish copies, just 10 less than mario bros and 25 more than the original legend of zelda.

so i would say for the legacy duck hunt is the most important retro rep. (game & watch is second though)
I have to disagree.
If I was putting the number of copies of their game sold into consideration, then Duck Hunt would have been an option.
However I could say the same thing regarding Wii Fit Trainer and I don't see a future for the Wii Fit series (I think it's going to be replaced by Ring Fit Adventure.)
Also the Duck Hunt Dog is considered one of the most hated characters in video games; he's not popular.
I was barely able to justify his return as Punch Out Wii was pretty successful and was what got Mac into Smash in the first place.
If I had to include any other retro character, I would have picked R.O.B. over Duck Hunt as the former saved the video game industry in the west.
Heck, you convinced me to make a change to my veteran roster.
 

Michael the Spikester

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Huh, that's... kinda disturbing, since GR seemed to have a pretty "cult classic" status and got a decent bit of promotion. I mean, you don't get a remaster and a sequel in the same gen without at least that.

Maybe these people just play the more "realistic" looking games? Dunno.
Gravity Rush when compared to bigger Sony titles like God of War and Ratchet & Clank is more niche apparently. Within the Sony fandom its certainly popular, kind of like how Godzilla is with the kaiju fandom being "niche" to the general audience.
 
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SpecterFlower

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Gravity Rush deserved so much better...

For what it's worth, Sony's recent treatment of the Japanese market will probably come back to bite them at some point. Can't say when exactly, but I have a feeling...
baseball spirit's is already a switch exclusive and bandai namco is set to have one of their worst years because they refuse to put tales of and IDOLM@STER on switch so they're probably flops in the making.

(seriously i can't stress how bad the decision to not put tales of on a Nintendo platform is, the western audience is almost entirely on Nintendo so that market is largely nonexistent and the ps5 is a gigantic failure in japan so who are they selling the game too? not to mention the budget probably increased for this one).

that should scare a lot o Japanese dev into making less games for sony

when konami is the best switch supporter you know something is wrong (capcom is set to overtake them though with an exclusive monster hunter ad resident evil as well as ace attorney 7)
 

SpectreJordan

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dont give me hope for Neku like that bro
Maybe they went with Neku after Disney screwed them over on Sora. He’s far less popular but he’s still a Nomura character. 👀

Don't do that. Don't give me hope.
Don’t worry, it’s my hope too. We can fall together lmao

Or how about double dipping on Microsoft and bringing in another Sega character? Add Chief for the westerners and then Arle for Japan.

Those two as a finale would be a dream.

I’ve also been considering how one of the running trends of FP2 is, like I alluded to briefly before, using what has already been available. Be it negotiating with companies in arms reach or bringing in characters of their own, Nintendo seems to have shifted gears a bit since last time.

I think keeping this in mind brings us a bit closer to the answer, although there are certainly new (smaller, Japanese) companies I can see getting characters too. Like, Koei Tecmo is still a safe bet in my book and ArcSys can definitely happen.
I think Sega has a good chance too. They’ve been strangely absent with FP2’s Mii costumes.

Though with this theory, it’s possible they only double dip on one company & we get a final Nintendo character too. I’m generally in the camp of the next two being 3rd party. But man, Decidueye has a lot going for him tbh.

I’m definitely not hardcore believing this theory, it’s just something fun to think about.
 

SharkLord

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They already know how to handle it though? Just don't give the head a hurtbox, the same thing they've done to swords, wings, tails, etc
I know, just an example. If the projectile glitch leads to something, it'll probably be something we won't expect... Which also means I can't give any examples.
Welp
 

CosmicQuark

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Here's a funner game. Name all the characters from each company you want in Smash until you can't think of anymore.

Nintendo
Ocarina of Time Adult Link
Masked Link (Deku, Goron and Zora Link)

Konami
Cormano

Sega
Axel Stone
Tails
Dr. Eggman
Gunstar Red/Blue
Vectorman

Capcom
Arthur
Dante
Chris Redfield
Amaterasu
Amingo
Viewtiful Joe

Namco
Klonoa
Nightmare
Jin Kazama

Square Enix
Sora
Geno
Ark
Crono
Serge
Squall

Microsoft
Joanna Dark
Fulgore

SNK
Kyo Kusanagi
Simea
For this, I'm going to assume an unlimited number of spots, and neither assist trophies nor mii costumes disconfirm any characters. If that weren't the case, a good chunk of these I wouldn't include, and I would narrow it down even further. It's a combination of what I want, what I think would be good for the game, and tying up loose ends. For each company, they're in the order that I want them. Characters in italics are the ones I would really want given current restraints, realistically.

Nintendo: Dixie Kong, Isaac, Impa (echo), Waluigi, Toad (Captain Toad would be an alt), Bandana Dee, Skull Kid
Konami: Bomberman, Alucard, Bill Rizer
Sega: Shadow (echo), Tails, Eggman
Capcom: Dante, Arthur, Zero, Phoenix Wright, Chun-Li, Monster Hunter.
Bandai Namco: Agumon, Lloyd, Heihachi, Klonoa
Square Enix: Geno, Crono, Lara Croft
Disney: Sora
Microsoft: Master Chief, Conker, Doomguy (now that Microsoft owns Bethesda)
Activision: Crash, Spyro
Blizzard: Tracer
Ubisoft: Rayman
Indie: Shovel Knight, Imposter (only reason they rank so highly is that Smash x Among Us trailer really sold me), Sans, Cuphead, Shantae
 

Rie Sonomura

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Maybe they went with Neku after Disney screwed them over on Sora. He’s far less popular but he’s still a Nomura character. 👀



Don’t worry, it’s my hope too. We can fall together lmao



I think Sega has a good chance too. They’ve been strangely absent with FP2’s Mii costumes.

Though with this theory, it’s possible they only double dip on one company & we get a final Nintendo character too. I’m generally in the camp of the next two being 3rd party. But man, Decidueye has a lot going for him tbh.

I’m definitely not hardcore believing this theory, it’s just something fun to think about.
Bro

bro I VOTED for Neku on the ballot, one of them anyway from a different device

one wanted veteran returned, one wanted newcomer got Final Smash’d, so if my other voted for newcomer makes it... IT’LL MAKE UP FOR NO ELMA OKAY THATS HOW HAPPY NEKU WILL MAKE ME.

I need my Son(TM)
 
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Gengar84

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Here's a funner game. Name all the characters from each company you want in Smash until you can't think of anymore.

Nintendo
Ocarina of Time Adult Link
Masked Link (Deku, Goron and Zora Link)

Konami
Cormano

Sega
Axel Stone
Tails
Dr. Eggman
Gunstar Red/Blue
Vectorman

Capcom
Arthur
Dante
Chris Redfield
Amaterasu
Amingo
Viewtiful Joe

Namco
Klonoa
Nightmare
Jin Kazama

Square Enix
Sora
Geno
Ark
Crono
Serge
Squall

Microsoft
Joanna Dark
Fulgore

SNK
Kyo Kusanagi
Simea
Okay, this is going to be a really long list lol:

Nintendo
Goomba, Goombella, Impa, Ganon, Skull Kid, Midna, Urbosa, Akira Howard, Jenna Anderson, Dixie Kong, Gengar, Houndoom, Deoxys, Gliscor, Cofagrigus, Malamar, Golisopod, Orbeetle, Medusa, the Black Knight, Tharja, Rinka, Petra, Dimitri, Nia/Dromarch, Elma, Dunbar, Isaac

Square-Enix
Magus, Frog, Ayla, Ansem, Xemnas, Axel, Vincent Valentine, Lulu, Dagger, Vivi, Zidane Tribal, Freya Crescent, Amarant Coral, Squall Leonhart, Raziel, Kain, H’aanit, Lara Croft, Nel Zelpher, Albel Nox, Edea Lee

RARE
Rash/Pimple/Zitz, Fulgore, Spinal, Glacius, Orchid, Maya, Joanna Dark

Activision/Blizzard
Illidan Stormrage, Garrosh Hellscream, Lich King, Sylvanas, Sarah Kerrigan, Zeratul, Jim Raynor, Diablo

Capcom
Pharaoh Man, Snake Man, Toad Man, Air Man, Bass, Zero, Dr. Wily, Sigma, Guile, Vega, Chun Li, Dante, Amaterasu, Leon Kennedy

Koei-Tecmo
Lu Bu, Gan Ning, Xiahou Dun, Zhu Rong, Kotaro Fuuma, Oda Nobunaga, Ina, Orochi, Ryu Hyabusa

Namco-Bandai
Velvet Crowe, Eizen, Magiloo, Zaveed, Alvin, Sheena, Rita Mordio, Nightmare, Siegfried, Astaroth, Ogremon, Meramon, Titanmon, Jin Kazuma

Konami
Bill Rizer/Lance Bean, Bomberman, Alucard

Midway
Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Reptile

THQ
War, Death

Bethesda
Doomslayer

Level 5
Zegram Ghart, Gale, Ruby, Monica

NIS
Etna, Rozalin, Valvatorez

Atlus
Mitsuru, Kanji, Makoto
 
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Rie Sonomura

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Okay, this is going to be a really long list lol:

Nintendo
Goomba, Goombella, Impa, Ganon, Skull Kid, Midna, Akira Howard, Jenna Anderson, Dixie Kong, Gengar, Houndoom, Deoxys, Gliscor, Cofagrigus, Malamar, Golisopod, Orbeetle, Medusa, the Black Knight, Tharja, Rinka, Petra, Dimitri, Nia/Dromarch, Elma, Dunbar, Isaac

Square-Enix
Magus, Frog, Ayla, Ansem, Xemnas, Axel, Vincent Valentine, Lulu, Dagger, Vivi, Zidane Tribal, Freya Crescent, Amarant Coral, Squall Leonhart, Raziel, Kain, H’aanit, Lara Croft, Nel Zelpher, Albel Nox, Edea Lee

RARE
Rash/Pimple/Zitz, Fulgore, Spinal, Glacius, Orchid, Maya, Joanna Dark

Activision/Blizzard
Illidan Stormrage, Garrosh Hellscream, Lich King, Sylvanas, Sarah Kerrigan, Zeratul, Jim Raynor, Diablo

Capcom
Pharaoh Man, Snake Man, Toad Man, Air Man, Bass, Zero, Dr. Wily, Sigma, Guile, Vega, Chun Li, Dante, Amaterasu, Leon Kennedy

Koei-Tecmo
Lu Bu, Gan Ning, Xiahou Dun, Zhu Rong, Kotaro Fuuma, Oda Nobunaga, Ina, Orochi, Ryu Hyabusa

Namco-Bandai
Velvet Crowe, Eizen, Magiloo, Zaveed, Alvin, Sheena, Rita Mordio, Nightmare, Siegfried, Astaroth, Ogremon, Meramon, Titanmon, Jin Kazuma

Konami
Bill Rizer/Lance Bean, Bomberman, Alucard

Midway
Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Reptile

THQ
War, Death

Bethesda
Doomslayer
Nel Zelpher, Albel Nox
I HAVE FOUND MY FELLOW STAR OCEAN KINSMAN. :love:
also
Ruby, Monica
DARK CLOUD YAAAASSSS. you have impeccable taste
 
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MarioRaccoon

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Here's a funner game. Name all the characters from each company you want in Smash until you can't think of anymore.
Nintendo
Dixie Kong
Chorus Kids
Isaac
Akira Howard

Capcom
Dante

Namco-Bandai
Agumon
Chosen Undead

SEGA
Kiryu

Square-Enix
Sora

SNK
Marco Rossi

Activision-Blizzard
Crash

Ubisoft
Rayman

Bethesda
Doomslayer

Koei-Tecmo
Ryu Hayabusa

Microsoft
Fulgore

Warnes Bros
Scorpion
 
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chocolatejr9

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baseball spirit's is already a switch exclusive and bandai namco is set to have one of their worst years because they refuse to put tales of and IDOLM@STER on switch so they're probably flops in the making.

(seriously i can't stress how bad the decision to not put tales of on a Nintendo platform is, the western audience is almost entirely on Nintendo so that market is largely nonexistent and the ps5 is a gigantic failure in japan so who are they selling the game too? not to mention the budget probably increased for this one).

that should scare a lot o Japanese dev into making less games for sony

when konami is the best switch supporter you know something is wrong (capcom is set to overtake them though with an exclusive monster hunter ad resident evil as well as ace attorney 7)
I mean, I was told Square Enix was the best Switch supporter with Nippon Ichi as a close second, but I don't think I should start THAT debate...
 

Cyberfire

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But Banjo didn't use Duck Hunt as base, he used Ridley. Hero I'm less sure about, but didn't he use Link?

But Min Min used Captain Falcon as base. Not sure who Byleth used.
Wow that Banjo fact is new to me, learn something everyday!

I've also heard that Bayonetta's base is ZSS, and Bowser Jr was used for Piranha Plant. I wonder how many characters were built from one another, if we followed the tree how many could we whittle it down to?

Gosh this side of things just makes me wish Sakurai would write a book on the development of a Smash game, or if Nintendo could produce a behind the scenes documentary.
 
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3BitSaurus

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Gravity Rush when compared to bigger Sony titles like God of War and Ratchet & Clank is more niche apparently. Within the Sony fandom its certainly popular, kind of like how Godzilla is with the kaiju fandom being "niche" to the general audience.
I mean, yeah, it's niche alright, but for not a single person in the room at a Sony event to recognize her is a bit worrying. Especially since GR is still close to its last relevance period.

It's kinda like... if Nintendo had shown a teaser for Astral Chain 2 at a Direct and no one watching knew about it. Sure, AC is nowhere near mainstream, but for the intended target audience to be unfamiliar with it would definitely be weird.
 

Guynamednelson

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So here’s an unrelated question for you guys: Which character, if added, is the most likely to have a moveset that breaks the game like Bayonetta did in the last game ?
You better hope that if they do Triborg with the OG ninjas, knockback growth is high enough to stop this.
 

BlondeLombax

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For what it's worth, Sony's recent treatment of the Japanese market will probably come back to bite them at some point. Can't say when exactly, but I have a feeling...
I'm just curious about what this means for Japanese third-party devs. While some like Atlas are already looking to be jumping ship, there are still some that seem adamant in releasing games on PS only, despite their rapidly waning presence in Japan. It also makes me a tad anxious for reasons one should know by now, considering how much I gush about Senran Kagura on this website.
So here’s an unrelated question for you guys: Which character, if added, is the most likely to have a moveset that breaks the game like Bayonetta did in the last game ?
Two memes must live on!
 
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7NATOR

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Dunno if this was posted here yet but:




Along with his usual stuff, Sakurai once again says "2 more".
One thing I wonder is when they decided on the Concept of Pyra/Mythra over Rex/Pyra. Perhaps this could be why Rex was made a Mii Costume intially because they already figured this idea would not work with Rex being playable

Also, I do think that this does show the importance of being able to implement a Fighter. Nintendo can ask for characters, and I think Sakurai isn't tied to specific game ideas as he said in the past, but there are some limits that even Sakurai and the team have to abide by, as even the Team needs to tell Sakurai whether they be able to Implement that fighter as well

This becomes more complicated with 3rd parties as the 3rd party company has a Say on how the moveset goes also. though it doesn't apply here as Pyra/Mythra are first party

In any case, Yeah I think it's like Triple confirmed that FP2 is it. I take Sakurai's word here.
 

MarioRaccoon

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I mean, I was told Square Enix was the best Switch supporter with Nippon Ichi as a close second, but I don't think I should start THAT debate...
Switch best japanese supporter is Koei-Tecmo, they were the only japanese of the big 6 (Konami,Namco-Bandai, Square-Enix, Capcom, Koei-Tecmo and Sega) that had supported the plattaform since it launched. They even developed 5 exclusive original games for Switch (FE Warriors, MUA 3, HW AoC, FE 3H and Bond Mission Buddy). The only IP left that they didn’t put is Dead or Alive (not even a late port of DoA5 Ultimate).

It wouldn’t be strange if Nintendo have convinced Nioh’s team to develop an exclusive for them (an action rpg would fit well with switch catalogue, imagine of they lend mysterious murasame castle IP).

Thats why I think they deserved to have presence in smash ultimate with a playable character.
 

Guynamednelson

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One thing I wonder is when they decided on the Concept of Pyra/Mythra over Rex/Pyra. Perhaps this could be why Rex was made a Mii Costume intially because they already figured this idea would not work with Rex being playable
I think that if XC2 was said to miss the boat, that means Sakurai never tried making Rex a fighter until FP2.
 

CosmicQuark

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Wow that Banjo fact is new to me, learn something everyday!

I've also heard that Bayonetta's base is ZSS, and Bowser Jr was used for Piranha Plant. I wonder how many characters were built from one another, if we followed the tree how many could we whittle it down to?

Gosh this side of things just makes me wish Sakurai would write a book on the development of a Smash game, or if Nintendo could produce a behind the scenes documentary.
I’ve heard conflicting rumors on that, and when I looked into it, I couldn’t find any official source, or source from a reputable data miner to know if that’s actually true. While I think it’s likely, more likely than Duck Hunt given their shared properties, I think it’s just speculation.

That being said, I’d love a book from Sakurai on the development of Smash. We get so many Famitsu columns, and yet, I always want more information.
 

Rie Sonomura

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anyway, I’m calling a direct next month with not a single reveal, but a Final Presentation announcement set for May, it’ll have a double reveal. CP10 drops in May the same day, and CP11 in August.

they have to have them almost 100% complete by now, just like Corrin and Bayonetta at the end of 4.
 

Shroob

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anyway, I’m calling a direct next month with not a single reveal, but a Final Presentation announcement set for May, it’ll have a double reveal. CP10 drops in May the same day, and CP11 in August.

they have to have them almost 100% complete by now, just like Corrin and Bayonetta at the end of 4.
In April?

Not even a full 60 days after Pyra and Mythra?

Girl that's crazy.
 

Rie Sonomura

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In April?

Not even a full 60 days after Pyra and Mythra?

Girl that's crazy.
Tbf I did imply April’s direct wouldn’t SHOW who they are... just say “hey the final presentation is in may, stay tuned”
 
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Shroob

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Tbf I did imply April’s direct wouldn’t SHOW who they are... just say “hey the final presentation is in may, stay tuned”
I mean, I'm completely on board with a potential May reveal sure.

But we're not getting both at once. If we do, I'll eat my hat and post photos as proof of it. You can hold me to it.
 

chocolatejr9

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I'm just curious about what this means for Japanese third-party devs. While some like Atlas are already looking to be jumping ship, there are still some that seem adamant in releasing games on PS only, despite their rapidly waning presence in Japan. It also makes me a tad anxious for reasons one should know by now, considering how much I gush about Senran Kagura on this website.

Two memes must live on!
Oh that reminds me, I meant to show the Senran Kagura fans this:


Don't know how you feel about Neptunia, but it's something...

Wait, I need to make this Smash-related, um... Asuka for Smash?
 

SKX31

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Huh, that's... kinda disturbing, since GR seemed to have a pretty "cult classic status" and got a decent bit of promotion. I mean, you don't get a remaster and a sequel in the same gen without at least that.

Maybe people just play the more "realistic" looking games? Dunno.
There's a very large audience (amongst console / PC buyers) who prefer the more "realistic" side of things and do not look upon the cartoony side as fondly. But, there's a very large degree of variance within this audience (just as there's a lot of variance amongst those who prefer a cartoony or anime artstyle). The extreme detractors tend to get the most attention because they stick out really.

But, I don't think that's the main reason Gravity Rush faced such a dismal reception, even if it's very much possible that the Sony event was attended by say, your Gran Turismo fans or Spiderman fans.

I'm just curious about what this means for Japanese third-party devs. While some like Atlas are already looking to be jumping ship, there are still some that seem adamant in releasing games on PS only, despite their rapidly waning presence in Japan. It also makes me a tad anxious for reasons one should know by now, considering how much I gush about Senran Kagura on this website.
While I do question the "Sony is leaving Japan!" assumption on the grounds of A) It's still really early in the PS5's life, and B) Due to the shortages and kinda weak launch window... It makes sense that Sony's taking a more global approach since they're still seeing high demand worldwide, and it would make sense for a number of Japanese studios to keep being around for that reason. And they are matching the PS4's launch pace worldwide.

I do wanna point out that there are a lot of countries' console markets which are "PlayStation nation" and practically nothing else, such as Russia and the former Soviet Bloc (also known as CIS) - out of the consoles sold there, 70 % are PlayStations.
 

7NATOR

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I think that if XC2 was said to miss the boat, that means Sakurai never tried making Rex a fighter until FP2.
It depends on how early FP2 was in the minds of the Development team.

DLC wasn't decided to be a thing till after January of 2018. There's been ideas that after it was decided there be DLC, FP1 was decided here, but there may have already been some idea of FP2 depending on how negotiations go, how well the DLC does, and etc

This is where the idea that they may have thought about a Potential Rex/Pyra concept if they were to be added as DLC, but it was determined not to work, so they Made Rex a Mii as Consolation prize

Of course that's if you buy into the theory that DLC after FP1 was being talked about that early.
 

3BitSaurus

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There's a very large audience (amongst console / PC buyers) who prefer the more "realistic" side of things and do not look upon the cartoony side as fondly. But, there's a very large degree of variance within this audience (just as there's a lot of variance amongst those who prefer a cartoony or anime artstyle). The extreme detractors tend to get the most attention because they stick out really.

But, I don't think that's the main reason Gravity Rush faced such a dismal reception, even if it's very much possible that the Sony event was attended by say, your Gran Turismo fans or Spiderman fans.
True, but then what would it be? GR never seemed like a blockbuster to me, but it also never seemed like a "literally who" franchise, especially for people already familiar with Sony. So it's a bit hard for me to understand that kind of reaction, I guess.
 

BlondeLombax

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The best thing to take away from Sakurai's column is that the Mii costume wasn't holding Rex back from becoming a fighter like many people thought it was.
When the vocal fanbases of a lot of costumes makes this realization...
Oh that reminds me, I meant to show the Senran Kagura fans this:


Don't know how you feel about Neptunia, but it's something...

Wait, I need to make this Smash-related, um... Asuka for Smash?
Yeah, I saw that. It's definitely something, and I've seen a lot of people saying it could be released on PC down the line. Curious to see how it plays out, even if I've never played a Neptunia game.

As for that last bit, I'm trying to keep my expectations in check, but I can't seem to shake off the feeling that the stars are aligning. I don't want to let myself down, but at the same time, I still want to cling onto hope. This is one of the worst sorts of feelings.
 
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