Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Swamp Sensei]

I guarantee you that more people recognize Rouge and Silver than recognize Bayonetta and Joker.

You mean...NOW? AFTER they got into Smash? I will 100% take that bet. Thank you free money.

This is starting to get kinda petty, guys....

 

[Ben Holt]

You mean...NOW? AFTER they got into Smash? I will 100% take that bet. Thank you free money.

Not everyone's a Smash fan.
And even so, Sonic has sold 144.91 million units PLUS various TV shows, toys, ice cream, movies, T-shirts, etc.
Compare that to Smash's 63.77 million (Plus, Bayonetta has been in the last two with one being DLC, and Joker has only been in Ultimate as DLC.).
Smash is by no means an obscure franchise, but Sonic outsells it in video games alone by 2 to 1. And that doesn't even begin to take merchandise into consideration.
Sonic is a HUGE franchise.

 

[Pillow]

I guarantee you that more people recognize Rouge and Silver than recognize Bayonetta and Joker.

Rouge and Silver are only recognizable because they belong to the Sonic franchise, which is big. To that effect they're entirely carried by their franchise name, and nobody outside of Sonic fandom knows or cares who they are beyond the fact that they are indeed Sonic characters. Bayonetta and Joker are the main characters of their respective franchises. Yes those franchises are smaller than Sonic, but we'd only have Pokemon and Mario characters if brand name was the only thing that mattered.

So yes, as individual characters Bayonetta and Joker completely trump Rouge and Silver, and it's not even close.

 

[Ben Holt]

Rouge and Silver are only recognizable because they belong to the Sonic franchise, which is big. To that effect they're entirely carried by their franchise name, and nobody outside of Sonic fandom knows or cares who they are beyond the fact that they are indeed Sonic characters. Bayonetta and Joker are the main characters of their respective franchises. Yes those franchises are smaller than Sonic, but we'd only have Pokemon and Mario characters if brand name was the only thing that mattered.

So yes, as individual characters Bayonetta and Joker completely trump Rouge and Silver, and it's not even close.

This is about like saying some Indy musician is more recognizable than John Paul Jones of Led Zeppelin since that Indy artist is the frontman of their own band. John Paul Jones may be the least recognizable member of Led Zeppelin, but it's still ****ing Led Zeppelin.
Likewise, Silver and Rouge likely have more recognizability by riding Sonic's coattails than Bayonetta or Joker have on their own merits.
It's the same concept of "Toad is far more recognizable than Captain Falcon," but to a less extreme degree.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Rouge has a slight advantage thanks to Sonic X, but she isn't that notable outside of the Sonic fanbase. Silver is clearly not even close.

Nonetheless, this is getting silly now. There's a difference between popular and recognizable. Rouge is kind of a broken base at times. She was added for the sexy, but actually had legit characterization at the same time, not just being fanservice(a big issue with sexy characters being added is they're massively one-note). She continued to do so in her later appearances, being an intelligent spy and government agent with cool abilities and still had a sexy factor that was kept as part of who she was in(but wasn't all she was either).

Silver basically is a bit of a derp, gullible, actually a very nice guy overall, and legit wants to save the world. Being tricked by a guy(when you had no other option) didn't help. The story forces him to take the stupid route, anyway. Thankfully later games wrote the story better to save him. Seriously, 06's story is a mess. The characterization isn't bad, but the story itself... ugh. Except for Elise. She's a terrible parody of a princess. And I don't mean the one-sided romance. That's something that didn't bother me at all. What bothered me is how one-note she is, being kidnapped a massive amount of times, and being a terrible expy of Amy's reason for being in love with Sonic, but without any characterization to fix that(though to be fair, Amy took a while to be fixed. She's still awful in Adventure 2, Battle, and Heroes. She's excellent in Shadow and 06 by far. After 06, she finally grows up a bit. She feels like she should be, out of puppy love but respects Sonic as more than "marry me". Even Elise actually was mature enough to respect Sonic's wishes, which is the one thing I've give credit to. Not that she understood the real world well(but again, bad princess parody).

I want to also note that Blaze is an important protagonist as well. While she's not nearly as known as others, due to less usage, she's actually one of the few who continued to not just play similar to Sonic, but actually stay a counterpart to him without getting extremely different gameplay in later games. She floats more than she rolls, so she has different animations, but she didn't deviate much at all after her first appearance. Even in 06, she still keeps this, being only her and Omega who actually play similar to Sonic out of the partner characters. That said, the partner characters are kind of weird. None play exactly alike, having small differences. Amy is the only one who doesn't share traits with others, not being a remote clone of any kind and having invisibility. Basically a callback to her ability to use magic in older games(she used tarot card magic to find Sonic at one point too. She uses a bit of magic in Sonic Battle's story as well).

 

[DarthEnderX]

Not everyone's a Smash fan.
And even so, Sonic has sold 144.91 million units PLUS various TV shows, toys, ice cream, movies, T-shirts, etc.
Compare that to Smash's 63.77 million (Plus, Bayonetta has been in the last two with one being DLC, and Joker has only been in Ultimate as DLC.).
Smash is by no means an obscure franchise, but Sonic outsells it in video games alone by 2 to 1. And that doesn't even begin to take merchandise into consideration.
Sonic is a HUGE franchise.

The difference between Smash and Sonic though, is people who don't by Smash games, still watch Smash trailers. They are events, to gamers of all types, even those who don't care about Smash.

People who do no care about Sonic, do not watch trailers for Sonic games.

Smash's D-listers are more recognizable than Sonic's D-listers. Yeah, the big Sonic caracters that show up in all the cartoons and movies are more recognizable. But your Silvers and your Blazes? No.

Rouge has a slight advantage thanks to Sonic X, but she isn't that notable outside of the Sonic fanbase. Silver is clearly not even close.

Rouge has a slight advantage because her being the bat boobs lady is a popular internet meme.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Rouge and Silver are only recognizable because they belong to the Sonic franchise, which is big. To that effect they're entirely carried by their franchise name, and nobody outside of Sonic fandom knows or cares who they are beyond the fact that they are indeed Sonic characters. Bayonetta and Joker are the main characters of their respective franchises. Yes those franchises are smaller than Sonic, but we'd only have Pokemon and Mario characters if brand name was the only thing that mattered.

So yes, as individual characters Bayonetta and Joker completely trump Rouge and Silver, and it's not even close.

This is like saying Waluigi is a less known character than Ness because Ness is the protagonist of his one poorly selling game.

It's wrong and uses flawed self defeating and contradictory criteria.

Moreover... what? People outside the Sonic fanbase know of Silver and Blaze. "It's no use" is a meme we all recognize. Literally no one is going "literally who" for Blaze and Silver.

Smash uses a variety of criteria for its inclusions sure, but bigger franchises are bigger franchises. You don't have to tear them down to prop the smaller ones up.

 

[Pillow]

This is about like saying some Indy musician is more recognizable than John Paul Jones of Led Zeppelin since that Indy artist is the frontman of their own band. John Paul Jones may be the least recognizable member of Led Zeppelin, but it's still ****ing Led Zeppelin.
Likewise, Silver and Rouge likely have more recognizability by riding Sonic's coattails than Bayonetta or Joker have on their own merits.
It's the same concept of "Toad is far more recognizable than Captain Falcon," but to a less extreme degree.

You misunderstood. I didn't dispute your claim that they were more or less recognizable than smaller franchise characters. I said it doesn't matter. Most people don't care to see C-list Sonic the Hedgehog characters in Smash, except Sonic fans. It's true that there are lots of Sonic fans, but guess what? There's already a game series out there that caters to their specific interests called Sonic the Hedgehog where they can see these C-list characters all they want.

This is like saying Waluigi is a less known character than Ness because Ness is the protagonist of his one poorly selling game.

It's wrong and uses flawed self defeating and contradictory criteria.

Moreover... what? People outside the Sonic fanbase know of Silver and Blaze. "It's no use" is a meme we all recognize. Literally no one is going "literally who" for Blaze and Silver.

Smash uses a variety of criteria for its inclusions sure, but bigger franchises are bigger franchises. You don't have to tear them down to prop the smaller ones up.

No it's not, because I never said Waluigi is less known than Ness. I said it doesn't matter who is or isn't more well known. Smash is about bringing all sorts of different worlds together. Sure, more popular series should have more representation, but not to the ridiculous degree that some people are implying in this discussion.

 

[Ben Holt]

The difference between Smash and Sonic though, is people who don't by Smash games, still watch Smash trailers. They are events, to gamers of all types, even those who don't care about Smash.

People who do no care about Sonic, do not watch trailers for Sonic games.

Smash's D-listers are more recognizable than Sonic's D-listers. Yeah, the big Sonic caracters that show up in all the cartoons and movies are more recognizable. But your Silvers and your Blazes? No.

Rouge probably is maybe. But that's because she's an internet meme for being a ***** bat lady.

Well, unless we can get a scientific study, we'll simply have to disagree here.
But for the record, Silver and Blaze are C-list at worst.
D-list is Bark the Polar Bear, Storm the Albatross, etc.

 

[DarthEnderX]

People outside the Sonic fanbase know of Silver and Blaze. "It's no use" is a meme we all recognize. Literally no one is going "literally who" for Blaze and Silver.

Nobody HERE would, no. But I guarantee tons of people would if they were the next Smash reveal.

But for the record, Silver and Blaze are C-list at worst.
D-list is Bark the Polar Bear, Storm the Albatross, etc.

I don't really rate anyone between A and D. It's a two point scale.

 

[7NATOR]

Some things I've seen

-I think characters like Silver, Blaze, and Rouge are definitely known characters, especially Rouge. Rouge has appeared in Many of the game since Sonic Adventure 2 (which was the game that introduced Nintendo fans to Sonic and was also legendary), and she also appears in Sonic X, which was alot of people's first introduction into Sonic

Silver will probably be known for his Infamous Boss fight in 06. Blaze might be the less known one of the 3, since her appearances are more sporadic, But regarding alot of the characters, they appear in Mobile games, and also stuff like Mario and Sonic Olympics, which has sold alot of copies as a series


-I'm unsure on Shadow ever being Faster than Sonic. I think I do remember hearing that Sonic Battle said Shadow was faster than Sonic through Stats, but otherwise I've either heard Shadow was as fast as Sonic, or Sonic beats him in the Speed department, while Shadow excels at Power.

The main Reason Shadow did surpass Sonic in Speed intially was through Chaos Control, and I think that's really the only way Shadow can surpass Sonic in Speed, otherwise it's comparable, or leans toward Sonic

-Sonic Forces was also a game where Shadow was pretty much Similiar to Sonic. I believe only in his DLC Stages did his Homing attack have differences, with it being more Light Speed. There was also some datamined thing that implied Shadow was gonna have Chaos Control in gameplay, but was scraped

-I do admit Shadow could work as an echo, and is the best character to have that work if they were to add a Sonic echo

The main thing is I don't think they would do that. Shadow is not in a position where he has to rely on him being an echo Fighter to get into Smash. the only reason the echo fighters were the way they were was because they would not have gotten into the roster otherwise. Shadow has enough merit on his own on all fronts to be considered his own fighter

-Sonic does have more lifetime tales than Smash, but also keep in mind that Smash as WAY Less games, and also has never left Nintendo systems. I would say on average, Smash has sold more per game than any Sonic game has, besides perhaps the OG Genesis games. that's on Game sales though, this doesn't take into Account Tv shows, Mobile games, and the movie(s), plus Merchandise, which Sonic definitely has the edge in

 

[SpectreJordan]

I’m team Eggman/Tails/Knuckles for the next Sonic character. But I really only like the classic styled games. Mania is the GOAT & it’ll be a travesty if we don’t get a sequel.

The only newer game I’ve liked is Generations. I tried Adventure for a bit back in like 2012 & instantly dropped it lol. Only other “modern” game I’m slightly interested in is Unleashed.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

-I'm unsure on Shadow ever being Faster than Sonic. I think I do remember hearing that Sonic Battle said Shadow was faster than Sonic through Stats, but otherwise I've either heard Shadow was as fast as Sonic, or Sonic beats him in the Speed department, while Shadow excels at Power.

The main Reason Shadow did surpass Sonic in Speed intially was through Chaos Control, and I think that's really the only way Shadow can surpass Sonic in Speed, otherwise it's comparable, or leans toward Sonic

I own and play Battle constantly. He has a bit higher speed when side by side. But he's using his jet boots, which grants him slightly more. The whole reason he's a little faster by design is he's based upon Super Sonic, not Sonic, specifically. Super Sonic is naturally faster. This is why Shadow also has Chaos Control, as the master of the Chaos Emeralds relates to Super Sonic specifically.

Using Chaos Control is different from the natural speed, of course. Sonic X overplays how strong Shadow is, mind you. But the ability to remove his rings to gain more power is canon, so he has always had more literal power than Sonic overall. But he can't control it well. It knocks him out after a while(Sonic X did a good job of making this very relevant, not that it balanced him. Like, Shadow is so overpowered it was the only reason he could be removed from a fight. Sonic couldn't beat him in a single battle at any point. The Adventure 2 arc doesn't ever have Sonic actually win a battle. Something else comes up or they tie at most).

 

[Mamboo07]

Yeah for the record... Silver is generally pretty popular as his character got saved in later games.

Silver being disliked is really only due to one boss fight. He's generally liked elsewhere.

I T ' S
N O
U S E

 

[YoshiandToad]

Tbh just give me Tails, Knuckles and Eggman(as either playable or boss) and we're good.

Shadow can come too for the modern Sonic fans, but I wouldn't want him as the only new Sonic character.

Rouge has the advantage of debuting in the same game as Shadow so she's not a complete unknown...plus ya know...the internet...but she doesn't need to be playable really.

Blaze and Silver definitely have their fans too but they debuted in what was considered the worst Sonic title bar none until an unfinished Sonic Boom came out...and at least Boom had a funny cartoon series to make it worth the pain.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Nobody HERE would, no. But I guarantee tons of people would if they were the next Smash reveal.

Well gee forgive my hyperbole...

But considering that happened for Sephiroth of all characters... it just shows that someone is always gonna be out of the loop.

Blaze and Silver definitely have their fans too but they debuted in what was considered the worst Sonic title bar none

Blaze debuted in Sonic Rush, which is pretty hecking rad.




That aside.

This conversation is kinda stupid.

I don't even think Silver should be Smash.

I am just annoyed that people downplay the achievements of any character or franchise they don't like.

Silver is popular. The Sonic community likes him. He's popular enough to keep appearing more than a decade after his disaster of a debut.

Is he the most popular Sonic character? Not even close, but gosh, not every character has to set the world on fire. Is he mainstream? No. But neither is half the roster (including Joker and Bayonetta). That doesn't mean the character isn't worthwhile in and outside the character of Smash.

Moreover, why on earth is this conversation happening about Silver of all things? Dude's like... the 8th Sonic character in line? Maybe?

Frick.

I am so done with this conversation. It's making me lose brain cells.

Good night.

 

[Mamboo07]

I would have Eggman as a boss and a fighter.

Bowser = Giga Bowser
Ganon = Ganon (OoT)
Eggman = Death Egg Robot

 

[DarthEnderX]

Nah. He's just a dumpy loser outside his robots.

 

[7NATOR]

I own and play Battle constantly. He has a bit higher speed when side by side. But he's using his jet boots, which grants him slightly more. The whole reason he's a little faster by design is he's based upon Super Sonic, not Sonic, specifically. Super Sonic is naturally faster. This is why Shadow also has Chaos Control, as the master of the Chaos Emeralds relates to Super Sonic specifically.

Using Chaos Control is different from the natural speed, of course. Sonic X overplays how strong Shadow is, mind you. But the ability to remove his rings to gain more power is canon, so he has always had more literal power than Sonic overall. But he can't control it well. It knocks him out after a while(Sonic X did a good job of making this very relevant, not that it balanced him. Like, Shadow is so overpowered it was the only reason he could be removed from a fight. Sonic couldn't beat him in a single battle at any point. The Adventure 2 arc doesn't ever have Sonic actually win a battle. Something else comes up or they tie at most).

Was it confirmed that Shadow was based of Super Sonic Mural from 3&K. I mean It makes alot of sense, but I don't know if it was official

In any case, that is by design that Shadow is supposed to be Faster than Sonic, but design always do have faults though. I think these days they do try to make the Speed between the 2 more comparable, with maybe some leaning towards Sonic having the Speed advantage

This also could be an effect (or cause) of how the Creators designed Shadow. like you mentioned, by design Shadow surpasses Sonic in every way in terms of abilities, and especially nowadays where they always want Sonic on top, they really can't have that since Shadow should always have the advantage on Sonic, especially since even from a Personality standpoint, Shadow doesn't play around when he fights

I'm going on a tangent, but I think a Big problem Sega might be growing through is how exactly how to Fit Shadow within the Sonic franchise. Shadow is built pretty much like a Protagonist of his own series to be honest. that's part of why he got so popular, since not only was he a foil to Sonic, but he also was doing his own mission and thing. Sonic has been making every side character more tied to Sonic and less separate as themselves, but Shadow has a hard time fitting into this without potentially dumbing down the character, or involving plotholes, like his 6 month absence in Forces

So I think it actually would be better if they did Make Sonic faster on average compared to Shadow, or give him some type of advantage or something. even without the Inhibitor rings being taken off, Shadow should technically still be able to Cheese Sonic just based off ability. the only advantage I do see Sonic has over Shadow is that Sonic is able to control his power much better than Shadow can, which is why Sonic didn't fall to the Earth when Shadow did, but I do think Sonic does need some type of ability to give him more of an advantage

 

[BlondeLombax]

I am just annoyed that people downplay the achievements of any character or franchise they don't like.

I.

HONKING.

LOVE YOU!

I am the exact same way! I’m just not vocal about it because I‘m a coward. I wish I were half as brave as you.

 

[Pillow]

Moreover, why on earth is this conversation happening about Silver of all things? Dude's like... the 8th Sonic character in line? Maybe?

You'll find the answer to this question if you just looked like, one or two pages back. Nobody was really **** talking Silver as a character, but someone mentioned Silver alongside Rouge and Metal Sonic as 3 of 10 Sonic characters that should be in Smash and others (like myself) disagreed.

 

[YoshiandToad]

Blaze debuted in Sonic Rush, which is pretty hecking rad.

Whoops, you're correct.
Rush was received well too.

Anyway, you're misunderstanding, I'm not crapping on Silver.

He's easily my favourite boss fight in Generations, but he was brought up a couple of pages back when discussing first to third party ratios.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

Blaze being cursed to be associated with silver forever is the worst ****.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Solo's from the fourth game, actually. The DQV hero was considered, but they dropped him on the basis that he used a staff and not a sword, so it wouldn't work witheoveryone else's sword-based moveset.

I'm actually curious about this as a complete DQ noob. I saw the art for DQV hero and thought the same thing, but then I saw the animation and he appears with a sword for at least 70% of the trailer.

So I wonder why they didn't make an exception if they could, considering how popular he is.

 

[Captain Shwampy]

I'm actually curious about this as a complete DQ noob. I saw the art for DQV hero and thought the same thing, but then I saw the animation and he appears with a sword for at least 70% of the trailer.

So I wonder why they didn't make an exception if they could, considering how popular he is.

He's technically not the true hero and can't use the zenithian sword.

 

[Arcadenik]

People wanted a Xenoblade character since early ultimate speculation days, that was 3 years ago.

Finally we were heard and thats good.

BTW I know that now there are no more reliable leaks but at Sakurai’s last presentation, he mentions that they first thought of putting first Rex with Pyra/Mythra and if you remember that 40 name character list, it mentions Rex. Moreover, it also mentions Arthur and we got a mii costume of him. Maybe it was a simple coincidence (List:https://gamefaqs1.cbsistatic.com/user_image/8/0/3/AAe0kDAAA_Lz.jpg). If we take out already confirmed fighters, mii costumes and from that same companies, we got a list of 18 characters left:

1) Bandana Waddle Dee (Nintendo)
2) Bill Rizer (Konami)
3) Captain Toad (Nintendo)
4) Doom Slayer (Bethesda)
5) Flynn (Sega)
6) Jibanyan (Level-5)
7) Lana (??)
8) Linkle (Nintendo/Koei-Tecmo)
9) Lloyd (Namco-Bandai)
10) Porky (Nintendo)
11) Professor Layton (Level-5)
12) Rayman (Ubisoft)
13) Ryu Hayabusa (Koei-Tecmo)
14) Shantae (WayFoward)
15) Spyro (Activision-Blizzard)
16) Crash Bandicoot (Activision-Blizzard)
17) Quote (Nicalis)
18) Yuri (Namco-Bandai)

So from this list, which ones do you want as the final 2? I don’t have too much faith in these leak but its possible to suggest that during these past years Nintendo talked with a lot of companies about putting their characters in smash (Bethesda confirms that) and they make a list of possible candidates from each company. They showed Sakurai the list and he chooses the candidates, then negotiations proceed.

Out of everyone on that list, I would rather have Bandana Waddle Dee and Captain Toad.

But then again, Dark Pit now has a glitch and Decidueye now has a fighting chance again thanks to Pokemon Legends Arceus... I am hopeful for Decidueye again.

So... maybe Captain Toad and Decidueye. Sakurai needs to make a trailer where Toad breaks free from Peach and gets in Smash as a playable fighter.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I don’t really want him but it is crazy that Toad’s not playable. He’s pretty iconic even outside of Mario & has enough playable appearances to pull a moveset from.

I can’t imagine him being particularly fun though, atleast not for me. So I don’t mind him being stuck with Peach.

 

[GillaMonster]

Perhaps Lara Croft should be seen as more likely, she is a gaming icon too, and has gone beyond that into pop culture, especially here in the UK.

 

[Deleted member]

I have the feeling that one of the last 2 FP2 DLC fighters is gonna be from the Tales of series.

But I also have the feeling it's not gonna be Lloyd Irving.

 

[IsmaR]

I don’t really want him but it is crazy that Toad’s not playable. He’s pretty iconic even outside of Mario & has enough playable appearances to pull a moveset from.

I can’t imagine him being particularly fun though, atleast not for me. So I don’t mind him being stuck with Peach.

This but it also extends towards Contra for me. Seems weird they're not even spirits/got no music or anything, but I shudder thinking of needing to deal with projectile spam that puts Mega Man/Belmonts to shame (assuming the theoretical character could run and gun/had similar mobility as their original games).

I'd feel better if the current state of the series wasn't what it was, but Konami gonna Konami.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Perhaps Lara Croft should be seen as more likely, she is a gaming icon too, and has gone beyond that into pop culture, especially here in the UK.

Lara Croft is in a bit of a peculiar state at the minute. Plus we have no idea of either the game's impact in Japan or how much presence their studios have in the minds of the higher ups at Square Enix. Chances are they'd probably prioritise Tifa, a Bravely Defautl character or Dragon Quest Slime before looking to their western properties. Plus the Hitman people broke away to self publish so I've got no idea how that'll go down.

 

[SpecterFlower]

I actually think there’s a good chance most of the third party companies return, maybe not all of their characters though. Nintendo’s seemed to learned the importance of third party connections again, so I can’t see them ruining any of these relationships. Smash Ultimate is one of the largest games ever so I can see most companies wanting in on the sequel.

are all safe. They’re super iconic & from pretty chill companies that like Nintendo. Plus, their companies shill them out into any & everything that asks it seems like. If Sonic comes back (he will), then Bayo & Joker probably will too. Bayo is an adopted Nintendo character (if 3 ever comes out atleast). Persona 5’s cemented itself as a classic & Joker has been one of Ultimate’s most popular characters.

Square’s characters are on most people’s chopping block, but I think they’ll come back. They wouldn’t have gotten 3 characters & all of these spirit events if they’re THAT bad to work with. Nintendo & Square have gotten pretty chummy recently too; it’s just the Switch’s hardware holding Nintendo back from getting all of Square’s output.

SNK seemed like the easiest company to work with, they’d 100% come back if asked to. So that one is entirely in Nintendo’s corner on if they want Terry back.

The two wild cards are Konami & Microsoft.

Konami’s seemed pretty chill with Ultimate. But they’ve already skipped out on Smash once. They’ve also seemed to lose most of their interest in gaming. They haven’t had a major release since 2015. Anything involving their IPs has been licensed out or an easy to do port. I feel there’s a good chance they could end up selling their gaming IPs by the next Smash & Sony would be a prime candidate to pick up Metal Gear & even Castlevania.

The relationship between Microsoft & Nintendo is brand new, so we have to wait to see how strong it is. I think this really depends on if Phil Spencer is still the head of Xbox by then or if his successor shares his philosophy of being friendly to Nintendo. Microsoft has said that they don’t see Nintendo & even Sony as enemies anymore; with their focus being on Google, Amazon & Tencent. So it’s possible they remain friendly with Nintendo by the next Smash.

That's the reason i put 45 percent, unless there a gigantic budget drop oi don't see mot of these companies leaving, square was apparently not had to work with, it was just that the rights to their music and artwork are owned by people outside of square.

only one that i think can drop out would be konami

Not everyone's a Smash fan.
And even so, Sonic has sold 144.91 million units PLUS various TV shows, toys, ice cream, movies, T-shirts, etc.
Compare that to Smash's 63.77 million (Plus, Bayonetta has been in the last two with one being DLC, and Joker has only been in Ultimate as DLC.).
Smash is by no means an obscure franchise, but Sonic outsells it in video games alone by 2 to 1. And that doesn't even begin to take merchandise into consideration.
Sonic is a HUGE franchise.

yeah, but that's total sales. sonic mania sold 1mil and that was the last we heard of it's sales and sonic forces probably didn't sell much better.

again don't look at total sales, game and watch is bigger than splatoon if we go by total sales, it's a bad metric.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Really I think the biggest obstacle to the likes of Rouge or Silver getting in would be Sega themselves. The downplaying of the Sonic cast outside the big six (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Eggman, Amy, & Shadow) has been a major element since the disaster that was 06 and its hard to escape a sense that the company is playing it remarkably safe in whom they're choosing to highlight outside stuff like the comics or mobile titles. A cutscene in Forces or rounding out the roster in Team Sonic Racing is one thing, but getting a major spot in a crossover title?

Sega is not going to be keen on going out on a limb in terms of selection.

 

[Dinoman96]

I still maintain that Minecraft is the lynchpin to Nintendo and Microsoft's relationship, it was the game that build their relationship more than anything else according to Craig Duncan. It's the one game that ensures they will always have a relationship.

I can't see a future where Minecraft isn't published on non-Xbox systems anymore, that'd be a PR disaster for everyone involved, and thus I don't see a future where Steve gets cut from Smash, and I'd imagine that would extend to Banjo as well.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

When Fighter Pass 2 finishes, there's still a couple of missing characters that haven't got into Smash as a fighter yet.

Arguably

Bandana Dee
Chun-Li
Crash Bandicoot
Dixie Kong
Ganon (Blue classic version)
Lara Croft
Impa
Ryu Hayabusa

 

[Deleted member]

Just a thought but if the last 2 characters do get revealed at the same time, I hope it's where CP10 gets a full trailer while CP11 is only the reveal like Joker and Terry's. CP11 will come a few months after CP10 gets released, so how about get people guessing as to how CP11 would play while CP10 gets set to release?

 

[Deleted member]

After playing through my childhood games again (cough cough Pirate101 cough cough) I’ve kinda grown a fondness to the idea of adding content from Pirate101, but not the main character, Young Pirate(because honestly unless you make him a very janky echo of Pokemon Trainer I don’t see how that would work) but instead one of the main leaders of the antagonists, the Clockwork Aramda.

Spoiler: Lots of images

You have the leader, Kane, who is a swordie robot

Queen, kinda self explanitory

Bishop, who I ****posted about last night

Deacon, the spymaster

Rooke the war general and a speary boy

and lastly Phule, who is the wild card of the bunch

I hate to admit this is another one of my wants that is gonna go into the pipedream bucket but a man can dream.

 

[Perkilator]

Nah. He's just a dumpy loser outside his robots.

Really? He hasn't always had his best moments, but a dumpy loser? The man who enslaved a whole mini-planet via time travel, blew up half the moon, chained five whole planets to an interstellar amusement park and came 1% close to finally conquering the world? Just to name a few?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I have the feeling that one of the last 2 FP2 DLC fighters is gonna be from the Tales of series.

But I also have the feeling it's not gonna be Lloyd Irving.

The only one I can see that being is Yuri. Dude's just too popular being so of all the protagonists. Since I think the Lloyd Mii is returning, it could return with him, Ryu Hayabusa, an Namco rep or an JPRG character in general.

Perhaps Lara Croft should be seen as more likely, she is a gaming icon too, and has gone beyond that into pop culture, especially here in the UK.

At this point not likely given Sephiroth. Only chance would be for a Pass 3 which is not happening now. Even then she's overshadowed by Sora.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Really? He hasn't always had his best moments, but a dumpy loser? The man who enslaved a whole mini-planet via time travel, pissed on the moon, chained five whole planets to an interstellar amusement park and came 1% close to finally conquering the world? Just to name a few?

Fixed.

But yeah, I think there's definitely potential for something interesting with Eggman.