Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Pillow]

Sakurai: "We tried to make Byleth the best Distant Demon"

Min-min Releasing right after, and Sephiroth releasing two fighter after:
View attachment 304448


There wasn't any character having such a long lived unique archetype as Byleth, lmao, even worth when you see that he did that concept much better with Min-min and Sephiroth.

Byleth wasn't even the best at being a "distance demon" at the time of his release. I'd say that title belonged to the Belmonts up until Min-Min. Byleth's playstyle isn't nearly as campy.

 

[Dinoman96]

In regards to Master Chief, I think I may of found something kinda damning to his chances...

Master Chief, of course

— Brian Jarrard (@ske7ch) February 17, 2021

For those who don't know, this dude is the Community Director at 343 Studios. He also said this when Steve was announced:

Fingers crossed we are one step closer to a certain other Xbox property showing up in Smash 🙏

— Brian Jarrard (@ske7ch) October 1, 2020

Would somebody in a position of his power be allowed to say anything if MC was indeed happening?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Finally, a worthy opponent.

Our battle will be legendary.

Sonic voice Chili Dogs!

(Shoutout to anybody who gets that reference).

 

[BlondeLombax]

Honestly, I was surprised at how little anger I saw over Pyra and Mythra. Places I've seen were either hyped or just a little disappointed.

As for me personally, I was meh on 'em at first, but the improved Smash Bros. designs and music have won me over. I think it was a solid choice, and I'm happy for Xenoblade fans that they're getting what they want.

Here you go. It's mostly Twitter with some positivity at the end.

Spoiler: And because it's Twitter, expect a lot of naughty words.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

In regards to Master Chief, I think I may of found something kinda damning to his chances...

Master Chief, of course

— Brian Jarrard (@ske7ch) February 17, 2021

For those who don't know, this dude is the Community Director at 343 Studios. He also said this when Steve was announced:

Fingers crossed we are one step closer to a certain other Xbox property showing up in Smash 🙏

— Brian Jarrard (@ske7ch) October 1, 2020

Would somebody in a position of his power be allowed to say anything if MC was indeed happening?

Matt Mercer and Grant Kirkhope had both mentioned wanting to work on Smash after having worked on Smash behind the scenes, people assume that an NDA means you have to remain silent all the time when it's just "Don't say that you're working on it or that it's happening"

 

[DanganZilla5]

Personally, I'm not bothered by "anime sword users." Sakurai and the Smash team have proven time in and time again that they are creative enough to keep sword users feeling fresh and adding elements from their games to keep them unique. Pythra with the blade switch, Cloud with his limit break, Shulk with his monardo arts, Sephiroth with his badass toolkit, etc.

I do get that people are getting tired of JRPGs taking up a lot of the slots and as someone who isn't big into RPGs, I understand. But I feel like a lot of the people who say "anime swordspeople bad" are just using it as an excuse to complain when it's not a character they want. And it's ignorant to say sword users are all the same and "there is only so much you can do with a sword". I mean Ike has a sword just like Marth but he plays very differently.

I just wanted to say this as I have seen quite a bit of salt over Pythra. I'm not saying you have to like the inclusion, but good god some people are going overboard.

 

[SvartWolf]

While im not super sure... how do you guys are feeling about Alucard. the theory of second chances have some weight. and since konami is kinda trying to sell their IPs (withouth developing them anything, they are just outsourcing and profiting from their famous IPs) I have 0 doubt that at last konami would be pushing for Alucard since they also are trying to reignite teh love for SotN since they are trying to sell merchandise now.

We also know that the team enjoys castlevania, and very likely sakurai enjoys the character alucard. plus he was considered for ultimate before. and Castlevania has waay too much content in order to pull stuff not already in the game.

Obviouslythe fact that a company is pulling for a character means nothing alone. and even if knami wants alucard in and sakurai might want alucard in, still doesnt means anything. but stranger things have happened.

I honesty still putting my money in other stuff, like a capcom character with monster hunter or chun li, crash, or chosen undead. but i dont think is THAAAT outlandish and has way better chances than other similar characters like, zero, or shovel knight, or even bomberman.

 

[SharkLord]

While im not super sure... how do you guys are feeling about Alucard. the theory of second chances have some weight. and since konami is kinda trying to sell their IPs (withouth developing them anything, they are just outsourcing and profiting from their famous IPs) I have 0 doubt that at last konami would be pushing for Alucard since they also are trying to reignite teh love for SotN since they are trying to sell merchandise now.

We also know that the team enjoys castlevania, and very likely sakurai enjoys the character alucard. plus he was considered for ultimate before. and Castlevania has waay too much content in order to pull stuff not already in the game.

Obviouslythe fact that a company is pulling for a character means nothing alone. and even if knami wants alucard in and sakurai might want alucard in, still doesnt means anything. but stranger things have happened.

I honesty still putting my money in other stuff, like a capcom character with monster hunter or chun li, crash, or chosen undead. but i dont think is THAAAT outlandish and has way better chances than other similar characters like, zero, or shovel knight, or even bomberman.

I think we're done for Castlevania outside of Miis. The team poured everything into the base game content, and there just isn't much Alucard could bring beyond himself. That, and he was clearly stated to have been replaced by the Belmonts; Second Chance Theory is for characters who were simply dropped, not outright replaced.

 

[Shroob]

While im not super sure... how do you guys are feeling about Alucard. the theory of second chances have some weight. and since konami is kinda trying to sell their IPs (withouth developing them anything, they are just outsourcing and profiting from their famous IPs) I have 0 doubt that at last konami would be pushing for Alucard since they also are trying to reignite teh love for SotN since they are trying to sell merchandise now.

We also know that the team enjoys castlevania, and very likely sakurai enjoys the character alucard. plus he was considered for ultimate before. and Castlevania has waay too much content in order to pull stuff not already in the game.

Obviouslythe fact that a company is pulling for a character means nothing alone. and even if knami wants alucard in and sakurai might want alucard in, still doesnt means anything. but stranger things have happened.

I honesty still putting my money in other stuff, like a capcom character with monster hunter or chun li, crash, or chosen undead. but i dont think is THAAAT outlandish and has way better chances than other similar characters like, zero, or shovel knight, or even bomberman.

I think people kinda get Decidueye and Alucard mixed up in the "Going back to the drawing board" idea.


ARMs and XB2 were skipped because the game was too late in development.

Alucard and Decid were skipped over, but had characters included to fill their roles instead, namely the Belmonts and Incineroar.


The difference here is one group was passed over due to bad timing, the other passed over because something else fit them better.



Also Alucard's an AT and I don't foresee upgrades this game.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

While im not super sure... how do you guys are feeling about Alucard. the theory of second chances have some weight. and since konami is kinda trying to sell their IPs (withouth developing them anything, they are just outsourcing and profiting from their famous IPs) I have 0 doubt that at last konami would be pushing for Alucard since they also are trying to reignite teh love for SotN since they are trying to sell merchandise now.

We also know that the team enjoys castlevania, and very likely sakurai enjoys the character alucard. plus he was considered for ultimate before. and Castlevania has waay too much content in order to pull stuff not already in the game.

Obviouslythe fact that a company is pulling for a character means nothing alone. and even if knami wants alucard in and sakurai might want alucard in, still doesnt means anything. but stranger things have happened.

I honesty still putting my money in other stuff, like a capcom character with monster hunter or chun li, crash, or chosen undead. but i dont think is THAAAT outlandish and has way better chances than other similar characters like, zero, or shovel knight, or even bomberman.

The thing with the second chances theory is that they both chose to ignore the protag who was either a Mii costume or an AT and went with someone else, so Alucard wouldn't happen here. This means that someone else would replace Alucard and Sakurai doesn't have good enough taste to add Shanoa, so this is FP10

 

[PLATINUM7]

Does second chance theory do anything for Sora who Nintendo is supposed to have sought after after?

 

[Knight Dude]

Who was the reveal that genuinely shocked you the most? I think Cloud was personally. After that, I got a lot more open minded on what types of characters could happen I think. Or at the very least, I try to.

Does second chance theory do anything for Sora who Nintendo is supposed to have sought after after?

A couple people mentioned it from what I saw.

 

[Arcanir]

Let me just try and explain it a little better then...

Basically. There are Five Different Times we see Smash Characters Get Revealed.

1. The General Direct
Introduced Here:
Debatable:

Characters you see revealed in General Directs are either First Party Characters or Family Friendly (Teen and Under) Heroic and Recognizable Third Party Picks.

2. The Smash Direct
Introduced Here:
Debatable:

Characters revealed in Smash Directs tend to normally be somewhat darker and/or villainous characters, echoes, realistic characters, or B Tier First Party Characters.

3. E3 Directs
Introduced Here:
Debatable:

Originally I had forgotten about the Smash Wii U E3 Picks, but from what we have, there is a pattern. (Small Sample size, but E3's don't come often.) While Daisy, Wii Fit, and the Mii's are the generally accepted "Forgotten Picks" Of these Reveals. What we're left with is A Retro Characters Generally more popular in the West () Paired with a Modern Characters Generally more popular in the East ().

It's not anything I feel confident in locking in, but from the limited Data we have. That does seem to be the working pattern. Of course that'll be different this time since we're probably only getting one reveal, but more on that later...

4. Solo Events: (I might be off on a few here)
Introduced Here:
Debatable:

These are basically the Wild Card Picks, they're mainly Smash's B Tier Characters: Fire Emblem, Old Retro Characters, Minor Mario Character. Steve of course is the massive outlier to this, but when you look at the possibility he was intended to be an E3 Reveal his situation makes more sense.

5. The Big Stage (VGA)
Introduced Here:

Simply put, these are character reveals that appeal to those WAY Outside of Nintendo Circles, and more to the Casual Gamer at Large. But unless CP11 is a VGA Reveal, I doubt this will really matter.


So to sum things up.
- The Ridley Situation: Yes, he technically is an E3 Reveal, but if you look back on the 2018 Nintendo Direct. Roughly 60% of that was about Smash Ultimate, and I'd go as far to say that the reveals for everyone there counted as a Smash Direct. Unlike other characters at General Directs and E3's where they show the character and then move onto other games. Nintendo's 2018 E3 was Basically a Smash Direct. So that's why I'm counting Ridley in both categories.

- 2021 E3 Solo Reveal: Unlike the other E3's. We're probably just getting one character, and the big question is who? We have two distinct categories for what we're likely to see, but which one is it? Now like the rest of this post, this too is speculation, but I believe that Pyra/Mythra were the "Hero" of this year. They very much fit into the "Modern Character Generally More Popular in the East" Category, which leads me to assume that the E3 character will be the other side of the coin. The " Retro Characters Generally more popular in the West ()" Category


Is it a bit too specific? Probably, but considering Leaks are hardly reliable. The way I'm going about things is looking at the patterns, and while its impossible to be like "The Last character was X, therefore the next character is Y". So I'm looking at the ways in which Nintendo Reveals their characters and looking for patterns there. Could very easily be proven wrong, but this is the theory I'm testing.

I appreciate you putting some depth into your post, but I still ultimately disagree.

1) As already touched on, you go through some hoops to justify the outliers rather then take them into account. This creates a rather flimsy pattern and one that's not very reliable in the scheme of things.

2) Again, as said before, using Smash 4's DLC cycle isn't the best point either. That cycle not only was six years ago and thus would probably have different thinking behind its set-up, it also had different characters it had to work with as it also added veterans back that aren't going to be a part of Ultimate's. Using that cycle to determine what can happen in this cycle would create some holes in the assessment since things are going to change in half a decade and are already different in some respects.

3) Ignoring that calling that particular group 'Retro characters' is unfitting, at least in how the speculative community defines it, how are you defining 'characters more popular in the west'? Pac-Man for instance was actually pretty contested in most speculation circles and was definitely not on the same level as Banjo or Ridley within the respective community. Additionally, he's probably also relatively very even in popularity in Japan as well. If we're including him in the group, then that would extend to characters like MH or Dante, who while they may have a bit more popularity in different regions, are far from unpopular in the regions they're weaker in.

4) You still don't answer the question of how MH is too violent, nor why Dante can't be revealed at E3 either.

Ultimately, while I do like that you gave your thoughts form, I still don't think the points you make are strong enough to assume that MH or Dante wouldn't be viable candidates for a reveal there.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Eh, the anime sword user complaint is just another “I didn’t get who I want therefore the character chosen is a bad choice” opinion that are just multiplying with each addition and ironic when the most unique characters like Steve are added and people are still upset.

 

[Shroob]

Who was the reveal that genuinely shocked you the most? I think Cloud was personally. After that, I got a lot more open minded on what types of characters could happen I think. Or at the very least, I try to.



A couple people mentioned it from what I saw.

As someone who didn't recognize FF7's music from the trailer, it was 100% Cloud.


Cloud was that "Never-ever" character who people used to joke about getting into Smash, and then... he just did.


After that, well it's hard to be really surprised since leaks have been soo abundant, so I daresay Sephiroth was my 2nd.

 

[Perkilator]

Does second chance theory do anything for Sora who Nintendo is supposed to have sought after after?

That last part wasn't even 100% confirmed, so we can't really fit Sora into the Second Chance Theory just yet.

 

[Opossum]

Let me just try and explain it a little better then...

Basically. There are Five Different Times we see Smash Characters Get Revealed.

1. The General Direct
Introduced Here:
Debatable:

Characters you see revealed in General Directs are either First Party Characters or Family Friendly (Teen and Under) Heroic and Recognizable Third Party Picks.

2. The Smash Direct
Introduced Here:
Debatable:

Characters revealed in Smash Directs tend to normally be somewhat darker and/or villainous characters, echoes, realistic characters, or B Tier First Party Characters.

3. E3 Directs
Introduced Here:
Debatable:

Originally I had forgotten about the Smash Wii U E3 Picks, but from what we have, there is a pattern. (Small Sample size, but E3's don't come often.) While Daisy, Wii Fit, and the Mii's are the generally accepted "Forgotten Picks" Of these Reveals. What we're left with is A Retro Characters Generally more popular in the West () Paired with a Modern Characters Generally more popular in the East ().

It's not anything I feel confident in locking in, but from the limited Data we have. That does seem to be the working pattern. Of course that'll be different this time since we're probably only getting one reveal, but more on that later...

4. Solo Events: (I might be off on a few here)
Introduced Here:
Debatable:

These are basically the Wild Card Picks, they're mainly Smash's B Tier Characters: Fire Emblem, Old Retro Characters, Minor Mario Character. Steve of course is the massive outlier to this, but when you look at the possibility he was intended to be an E3 Reveal his situation makes more sense.

5. The Big Stage (VGA)
Introduced Here:

Simply put, these are character reveals that appeal to those WAY Outside of Nintendo Circles, and more to the Casual Gamer at Large. But unless CP11 is a VGA Reveal, I doubt this will really matter.


So to sum things up.
- The Ridley Situation: Yes, he technically is an E3 Reveal, but if you look back on the 2018 Nintendo Direct. Roughly 60% of that was about Smash Ultimate, and I'd go as far to say that the reveals for everyone there counted as a Smash Direct. Unlike other characters at General Directs and E3's where they show the character and then move onto other games. Nintendo's 2018 E3 was Basically a Smash Direct. So that's why I'm counting Ridley in both categories.

- 2021 E3 Solo Reveal: Unlike the other E3's. We're probably just getting one character, and the big question is who? We have two distinct categories for what we're likely to see, but which one is it? Now like the rest of this post, this too is speculation, but I believe that Pyra/Mythra were the "Hero" of this year. They very much fit into the "Modern Character Generally More Popular in the East" Category, which leads me to assume that the E3 character will be the other side of the coin. The " Retro Characters Generally more popular in the West ()" Category


Is it a bit too specific? Probably, but considering Leaks are hardly reliable. The way I'm going about things is looking at the patterns, and while its impossible to be like "The Last character was X, therefore the next character is Y". So I'm looking at the ways in which Nintendo Reveals their characters and looking for patterns there. Could very easily be proven wrong, but this is the theory I'm testing.

Little Mac and Rosalina (as well as Duck Hunt post-release) had their trailers debut in Nintendo Directs.

 

[SKX31]

Who was the reveal that genuinely shocked you the most? I think Cloud was personally. After that, I got a lot more open minded on what types of characters could happen I think. Or at the very least, I try to.

The original: .

I remember keeping that **** on repeat because 15 year old me legit struggled to believe it. I had no clue who Snake was until I researched MGS and went from there, but that reveal opened the door for all kinds of fantasies. Including StarCraft characters because I grew up with that game.

Also, it took six months until the next trailer, which was... . Yeeeeah... although I didn't mind so much because more footage in an era where that was less common.

 

[Nekoo]

Does second chance theory do anything for Sora who Nintendo is supposed to have sought after after?

That last part wasn't even 100% confirmed, so we can't really fit Sora into the Second Chance Theory just yet.

Not only that, but it seems that them trying to get him was back in the Smash 4 days, so who knows if they'll reconsider him if they go "second chance" or not.

 

[Deleted member]

There isn't too much discussion about this 1 very minor thing, but at the end of P/M's trailer on the US version of the Direct, this little disclaimer appeared:

"XENOBLADE CHRONICLES 2 RATED TEEN BY THE ESRB"

I believe this is the first time such a disclaimer has shown up in any trailer previously. Maybe when the next rollout of Mii Costumes come out, we'll be seeing this show up depending on what Mii it is on the US end of things.

 

[Eldrake]

Remember when someone posted a wishlist on a wishlist thread on 4chan and people called it a leak because it happened to have Steve and Sephiroth on it? Good times.

 

[Perkilator]

Personally, I'm not bothered by "anime sword users." Sakurai and the Smash team have proven time in and time again that they are creative enough to keep sword users feeling fresh and adding elements from their games to keep them unique. Pythra with the blade switch, Cloud with his limit break, Shulk with his monardo arts, Sephiroth with his badass toolkit, etc.

I do get that people are getting tired of JRPGs taking up a lot of the slots and as someone who isn't big into RPGs, I understand. But I feel like a lot of the people who say "anime swordspeople bad" are just using it as an excuse to complain when it's not a character they want. And it's ignorant to say sword users are all the same and "there is only so much you can do with a sword". I mean Ike has a sword just like Marth but he plays very differently.

I just wanted to say this as I have seen quite a bit of salt over Pythra. I'm not saying you have to like the inclusion, but good god some people are going overboard.

On the FE character topic, I think Corrin mainly sparked the swordfighter hate, especially for FE. I think if it was Azura, there would hopefully be less hate.

 

[SnowClaws]

Who was the reveal that genuinely shocked you the most? I think Cloud was personally. After that, I got a lot more open minded on what types of characters could happen I think. Or at the very least, I try to.



A couple people mentioned it from what I saw.

I guess Byleth is the one who shocked me the most since everyone kept hyping that Fighter Pass 1 is all third party and I had a character from Tokyo Mirage Sessions ♯FE in my head at the time. The fact that this character wasn't leaked, and was kept a secret among Nintendo employees was a great surprise. Overall, Byleth is a alright character and I was familiar with them enough to recite their many one liners.

 

[SWSU]

On the FE character topic, I think Corrin mainly sparked the swordfighter hate, especially for FE. I think if it was Azura, there would hopefully be less hate.

I think anyone from Fates would have had similar backlash given it just reeked of being a promotional pick since it hadn't been released outside of Japan.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

There isn't too much discussion about this 1 very minor thing, but at the end of P/M's trailer on the US version of the Direct, this little disclaimer appeared:


"XENOBLADE CHRONICLES 2 RATED TEEN BY THE ESRB"

I believe this is the first time such a disclaimer has shown up in any trailer previously. Maybe when the next rollout of Mii Costumes come out, we'll be seeing this show up depending on what Mii it is on the US end of things.

Wasn't this the first Smash character revealed in a direct since Terry? I think the ESRB stuff happened after that, so there might be some nitpicky ESRB rule that affects how Smash DLC is presented when combined with trailers for other games.

Maybe not, though, it's just a thought.

 

[Powerman293]

Not only that, but it seems that them trying to get him was back in the Smash 4 days, so who knows if they'll reconsider him if they go "second chance" or not.

"Second Chance" Theory?

 

[rexfan53]

Echo Clones?

I'd go with Protoman, Dixie, Rock Howard, And Octoling I guess.

I wish I could say Ms. Pac-Man, but the rights for that character are really tricky.

I forgot proto man lol. I dont think rock howard is likely for echo tho

 

[Peeton]

Gonna post something that's been on my mind in the days since Pyra/Mythra's reveal, and that is my general first impressions of every newcomer that was added in Smash 4 and Ultimate. I've been on this website since right before Smash 4's reveal (I lurked for several months before making an account), so I'd thought it would be cool to give what my thoughts were on these characters back in the day. This post is limited to the Smash 4 newcomers, and I'll probably talk about my impressions of the Ultimate newcomers once the second Fighters Pass is finished.

Spoiler: Villager Comes to Town!

Believe it or not, Villager was not a popular pick for Smash 4, and this is for one singular reason: a comment Sakurai had made back before Smash 4's development was announced. Sakurai stated that Villager was a character not suited for battle, that they couldn't fight. After all, Animal Crossing is one of the most peaceful games that Nintendo has made. Because of this, myself and others on this board in 2013 were surprised to see Villager show up in Smash 4's first trailer. In retrospect, we all seem really stupid, but speculation was much different back in the day (by the end of DLC, more than half of Ultimate's characters would have debuted in either Smash 4 or Ultimate). All in all, despite not really being an Animal Crossing fan at that point in time, I was happy to see Villager make his debut into Smash, as Animal Crossing was getting too big to ignore. [6.5/10]

Spoiler: Mega Man Joins the Battle!

For those who are not aware, Mega Man was the most requested character for Smash 4. Brawl was notable in opening up the door to third party characters with Solid Snake and Sonic the Hedgehog, but what new third party character(s) would we get? Snake's return seemed very unlikely due to circumstances with Konami occurring at the time, so who would join the blue blur in his inevitable return to the Smash Bros. series. Many people on these boards thought we would get 1 or 2 new third party characters in Smash 4, and the obvious answer for most would be Mega Man's inclusion along with possibly another third party. As the third ever third party introduced into the Smash series (for perspective, we now have 16 third party characters in Ultimate), Mega Man was quite possibly the most notable and most hype reveal for the base roster of the game, including for myself. My personal thought at the time was that we would get two third party characters: Mega Man and Pac-Man, and that's because I thought both deserved to be in Smash the most. Of course, you know that was what ended up happening. In that first ever E3 Nintendo direct, I remember jumping out of my seat and screaming a bit despite never touching a Mega Man game in my life. I was very happy to see him there. If only I knew the third party characters we would end up getting years later. [9/10]

Spoiler: Wii Fit Trainer Weighs in!

One of the strangest Smash Bros. inclusions of all time, Wii Fit Trainer was revealed in a bit of a strange way as well. Instead of being revealed in the E3 Direct like Villager and Mega Man, Wii Fit Trainer's trailer was dropped by Sakurai after a short demo he gave of the game on the E3 showfloor. Because of this, I found out about this character from social media, and I believed nobody. I mean, if somebody told me that were adding the trainer from Wii Fit into Smash Bros. as a playable character, I would probably laugh at the absurdity of it. And yet, this was the character staring in my face as I browsed these boards on the afternoon of June 11th, 2013. The salt was real, but I couldn't help but laugh at this whole predicament. We knew 12 characters in this game, and one of the them was Wii Fit Trainer. However, despite the weirdness of this inclusion, a certain plant in the future would tell me... [6.5/10]
View attachment 304430

Spoiler: Rosalina and Luma Launch into Battle!

Not the most expected Mario character to join the roster, but here Rosalina was. Since Rosalina only appeared in a few games prior to this reveal (Galaxy 1 & 2, Mario Kart Wii, and Mario Kart 7), she had nowhere near the notoriety that she has today. But as Rosalina was revealed to be playable in 3D World and Mario Kart 8, the reveal made sense in retrospect. Of course, my dumb ass thought this was another Mario Kart trailer at first since we saw Rainbow Road, but it ended up being Rosalina instead (the first Smash reveal to fake me out: I don't think another one did again). My most wanted Mario character was Bowser Jr., and I thought that Rosalina's reveal meant that Bowser Jr. wouldn't be playable. Little did I know... [7.5/10]

Spoiler: Little Mac Punches in!

After the E3 reveal, a little leak called the Gematsu Leak surfaced. A leak that correctly guessed both Villager (referred to as "Animal Crossing Guy") and Wii Fit Trainer? This source knows something. The source also listed Little Mac, Pac-Man, and Miis as newcomers to the series, but incorrectly stated that they would be revealed at E3 2013. Of course, since this leak was able to guess Wii Fit Trainer of all characters, most people were willing to believe it. It also helped that Little Mac was a popular choice to begin with (one of the "Elites" of Smash 4 speculation along with Mewtwo, K. Rool, Ridley, Mega Man, Palutena, and Chrom) and the fact that the series got a reboot in 2009, so most were expecting his inclusion in the game. However, this didn't detract from the hype his reveal brought in the west. Japan didn't like this reveal very much, but I didn't learn this until years later. A common theme across reveals I liked was that I thought they deserved to be in the game, and this was no different. However, the way Mac was implemented depresses me, making his inclusion feel lackluster in retrospect. However, the score that you have probably noticed at the end of the write-ups is based on my initial thoughts, not what I think now. [8.5/10]

Spoiler: Greninja Makes a Splash!

I thought this was Mewtwo. I wished it was Mewtwo. But, instead, we got the Ninja Frog Pokemon Greninja as an entirely new Pokemon added to the game. This was also the direct that confirmed that transformation characters were no more for this game, with Charizard flying solo this time around. I had played Pokemon X in the winter before this reveal and started with Froakie, so I was was unexpectedly psyched by this reveal. Don't get me wrong, I still really, really wanted Mewtwo to show up, but Greninja was a Pokemon inclusion that I was perfectly OK with. However, something else happened this reveal that impacted the speculation scene drastically. The Gematsu leak was back with a vengeance, and by vengeance I mean with new information. Pac-Man and the Miis were still on the leak's list of new fighters, but added to the list were Palutena, Chrom, Shulk, the Chorus Men from Rhythm Heaven, and a Generation 6 Pokemon. Of course, this leak was not entirely true and likely stemmed from an early design document at the very start of development, but getting a Generation 6 Pokemon correct added a substantial amount of credibility to the leak, since many thought a Generation 6 Pokemon wouldn't happen because X and Y came out after development on Smash 4 started. [8/10]

Spoiler: Mii Fighters Join the Battle!

E3 2014 added further fuel to the Gematsu fire, and one of the ways was through revealing the Mii Fighters. Luckily, this was a very boring and predictable reveal that was given a step up by how good their reveal trailer was. Seeing Reggie and Iwata fight anime-style is something I will always remember. Not much else to say here. [6/10]

Spoiler: Palutena Alights!

Another predictable inclusion perpetuated by the Gematsu leak and the fact that Sakurai directed Kid Icarus: Uprising immediately prior to starting development on Smash 4. Cool reveal trailer and character overall, but I don't remember getting too excited for the reveal because of the predictability of it all. [7/10]

Spoiler: Dark Pit Joins the Battle!

Dark Pit shows up at the end of Palutena's reveal trailer, but practically everyone, including myself, thought nothing of it and thought it was just a cute exchange between the characters of Kid Icarus. However, a certain leak (which I will talk about more later) set his inclusion in stone for the roster. Sorry to all the Dark Pit fans (I don't know how many of you there are), but Dark Pit was my least favorite inclusion in the entirety of the base roster, and it wasn't because I didn't understand the development process behind clone characters. I fully understood that Dark Pit and the other clones took much less development time than any of the other newcomers, but I thought there were so many better options for clones and that Dark Pit should have stayed as an alternate costume for regular Pit. Of course, my opinion has changed a decent amount with the advent of Echo Fighters and enjoying what makes him different than Pit, but this inclusion soured my opinion of the base roster overall. [2/10]

Spoiler: Pac-Man Hungers for Battle!

This inclusion should have been obvious, but, for whatever reason, it wasn't. Pac-Man is quite possibly the most iconic video game character ever and, with Bandai Namco assisting Sakurai with development, everything seemed right for Pac-Man. But it wasn't until Gematsu that people started thinking he would be in the game, and that is something I still don't understand to this day. Maybe it was because people were scared that Sakurai would use the Ghostly Adventures design as opposed to the classic design. Maybe it was because Sakurai said he thought about it for Brawl and dismissed it. All in all, good character inclusion, bad reveal trailer, ugly discourse at the time. [7.5/10]

Spoiler: Lucina Wakes her Blade?!

The first clone character revealed for Smash 4 and the only one properly revealed prior to launch. She was revealed with Robin, and both managed to completely change speculation for the game. Why? Neither of these characters were Chrom. Everybody, and I mean everybody expected Chrom to be the new Fire Emblem character included in Smash 4, and yet not only did we not get Chrom but we got two new Fire Emblem characters. I remember when people thought that four FE characters was a lot. My have times changes. People were confused at first one whether or not Lucina was a costume for Marth or a separate clone character, but Sakurai quickly cleared that up in a Famitsu column. Hadn't played Awakening yet at the time, but Lucina was an overall solid inclusion into the game. [6/10]

Spoiler: Robin Brings the Thunder!

My was I glad to see a Fire Emblem character that didn't primarily use a sword. Despite never touching a Fire Emblem game at that point in my life, I knew that there was much more to the series than swords. Plus, to see another character using magic was cool. However, with Chrom destined to get his chance another day, Gematsu was dead. Suddenly, there was doubt on whether or not Shulk and the Chorus Men would be included as playable characters. Suddenly, speculation was no longer rigidly set to a handful of characters, but that bliss would only last a month... [7/10]

Spoiler: Shulk Forsees a Fight!

With Gematsu dead, Shulk was no longer a lock for the base roster and would be a small surprise for the game. However, the biggest Smash Bros. leak of all time, the ESRB leak, would ruin any hope of a surprise until DLC started development for the game. Suddenly, we knew the entire base roster for the game a full month before release. Any of my talk about the turmoil these boards went through would be an understatement, but that is a discussion for another time. However, Shulk's inclusion was more impactful in that it 100% confirmed the ESRB leak as real, so, it's hard to pinpoint my reaction to Shulk inclusion himself. I did think he deserved to be there, but he wasn't that interesting to me. [6/10]

Spoiler: Bowser Jr. Clowns the Competition!

There he was. Sitting next to Rosalina on the roster for the ESRB leak was the Mario character I was most wanting: Bowser Jr. was a playable character in Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo 3DS and Wii U. However, there was something I and many others did not anticipate: he was sitting in his clown car. Of course, the Clown Car is now heavily associated with Bowser Jr. (I'd argue to a fault), but that wasn't the case back then. I moreso envisioned him as a semi-clone of sorts of Bowser, using his Paintbrush from Mario Sunshine to attack. However, I thought the idea of putting Jr. in the Clown Car was a very good one, and I was very excited to try him out once I got my hands on the game. [9/10]

Spoiler: Duck Hunt Takes Aim!

Whenever I think of Duck Hunt's unexpected appearance in the ESRB leak, I can't help but think about @Arcadenik . Duck Hunt seemed like a really good choice as the retro character of the game, but I couldn't help but be happy for Arcadenik when Duck Hunt was revealed. Even when the odds were stacked against him, this user ended up getting the character they wanted in the end, which I couldn't help but be happy about. But as to what I thought of him, well, he was...an OK inclusion. I guess you could say... [6.5/10]
View attachment 304447

Spoiler: Mewtwo Strikes Back!

This is it. My favorite Smash reveal ever. And it was just a 3D model. After the ESRB leak was dropped unexpectedly online, the most disappointing thing to me was the lack of Mewtwo. His absence never made sense to me in Brawl and his absence here was baffling. How could Sakurai forget Mewtwo again? For a multitude of reasons (I think this being one of them), Mewtwo is my favorite Pokemon of all time. Luckily, despite my sheer disappointment, Sakurai didn't forget about Mewtwo. There he was. He was where he belonged for years. Not only that, but character speculation was no longer dead for the game. Post-launch characters were confirmed to be on the way, but we didn't know if it was Mewtwo or if other characters would follow. Luckily for us, more came after. [11/10]

Spoiler: Lucas Comes Out of Nowhere!

With Mewtwo, Lucas returns too! And, with him, the announcement of a Smash Ballot. The fans could now influence the character inclusions of the game and, with it, speculation was rejuvenated. Many characters would later thank their inclusion into Smash due to the ballot for better or for worse. As for Lucas, he was unfortunately overshadowed by the announcement of the Ballot, but I was still excited for his inclusion nonetheless. [7/10]

Spoiler: Roy Seals the Deal

Mewtwo and Roy had been paired together a lot in speculation. Probably because they both were added into Project M, but I digress. "Maybe, if we got Mewtwo..." the people thought, "...we could get Roy back too." Lo and behold, that is exactly what happened, but it was a shame that it got leaked beforehand. If that weren't the case, I would have probably been much more excited for the reveal. There was a reason why a lot of the popular picks were returning veterans, after all. It's why Ultimate did what it did. [7/10]

Spoiler: Here Comes a New Challenger! Ryu!

First Point: I have Ryu's inclusion in Smash to thank for getting me watching Maximillian Dood on Youtube and becoming more of a fighting game fan in general. Second Point: This is yet another case of a good reveal getting ruined by being leaked beforehand. Just like Roy, I would have been more excited to see him if I didn't know he was in the game beforehand. [7/10]

Spoiler: Cloud Storms into Battle!

Cloud's inclusion into Smash Bros. marked a paradigm shift in the world of Smash. Nobody could believe it. Cloud Strife, seen by many as one of the faces of the Playstation and not having his game on a Nintendo console, somehow managed his way into Smash. Heck, I still can't wrap my head around how it happened to this day. Suddenly, it felt that mostly any video character was possible for Smash. We wouldn't see the full effects of this until Ultimate, but the ramifications of this inclusion are incredibly influential. As with many others, I was in complete shock. I never played a Final Fantasy game, but this was a character I never knew I wanted. Incredible reveal. Bravo. [10/10]

Spoiler: Corrin Chooses to Smash!

If there's any juxtaposition to me writing my thoughts about Mewtwo in glee, it's this. I apologize for this Corrin fans, but Corrin is my least favorite inclusion in the entire history of the Smash Bros. series. This isn't because I dislike Corrin or their playstyle, but because of the ramifications that came with it. Let me explain:

1. This is an instance of a character added to the game solely to promote a new/upcoming title. Unlike other characters that fit under this umbrella, Corrin was added into Smash before Fates even came out in the US. We didn't quite know that it would be the most mixed-opinion Fire Emblem game in recent memory. I'm a firm believer in giving characters time to establish an impression in players around the world before they are included into Smash.
2. Corrin started all the hate for Fire Emblem and anime swordsmen as a whole. Having recently gotten into Fire Emblem and beaten Awakening and Three Houses, this just hurts more to me now than it did back then. It made Byleth, a character I have come to really like, leave a sour impression on Smash fans than when they didn't deserve. I mean, no character deserves it, but I blame Corrin for starting this trend that I have come to hate

Corrin, this was not your fault, but speculation and some character inclusions would have been so much better if you didn't show up. [1/10]

Spoiler: Bayonetta Gets Wicked!

Bayonetta was not a character I got excited for, but I was able to brush her and Corrin's inclusions to the side because I got Mewtwo back and Cloud managed to show up...somehow. I was simply more happy for all the fans that wanted her that I didn't really care about my own thoughts about the character. Little did I know, Bayonetta would become the character I hated fighting against the most. [5/10]

Spoiler: Closing Thoughts

Smash 4's character inclusions feel like a mixed bag to me in retrospect, and I feel that Ultimate's inclusions have been better overall. But, seeing as this game takes me back to my first years here on these boards and the speculation and turmoil that came from trying to predict the impossible, I can't help but feel nostalgic for everything. However, I didn't really jive with the playstyle of most of the newcomers, as I felt that they were either too odd or too gimmicky. Regardless, Smash 4 brought with it many great inclusions in to the series and made the roster feel more complete as a whole.

...Whew, that was a doozy. If you're looking for a bit of a time capsule back to the Smash 4 days, well, here you go.

It was Smash 4’s DLC that got me the most excited. Looking at the new characters added in the base roster, just about all of them had some gimmick. Whether it was Rosa with Luma (I still think it’s dumb) Shulk’s stat changes, or Robin’s weapon durability. Obviously some character’s exclusive mechanics weren’t intrusive but I still think it was kinda lame. Also the newcomers for the base game were all really boring now that I think about it.

It’s probably why I really can’t pick one character to go to in that game. Ultimate fixes that since2 of my most wanteds are in it (Wolf and snake).

 

[Perkilator]

"Second Chance" Theory?

A current theory that Vol. 2 consists of characters that missed their chance previously.

• ARMS and XC2 missed their chance due to poor timing; that was rectified by Min Min's and Pyra/Mythra's respective appearances
• Steve was apparently in the talks for 5 whole years before he eventually made it
• We all know how FF7 got treated in the base game, but that's because of all the hoops Sakurai needed to go through (which were thankfully rectified by Sephiroth)

So if Sora really missed his chance before (unconfirmed at the moment), maybe he could fit into this if that speculation gets confirmed.

 

[SharkLord]

"Second Chance" Theory?

The theory that FP2 will be partially or entirely based on tying up loose ends. ARMS and XC2 released too late to be considered for the roster, Steve's negotiation took about five years, and Sephiroth fixed FF7's infamous representation issues. It's also why Lloyd and Chun-Li took off after the negotiation rumor (Or the Chun-Leak, if you need your puns that badly); They were supposedly dropped from the planning stages, and would fit in with the theory (Though Chun-Li was supposedly swapped with Ken rather than simply dropped, but that's another can of worms I don't feel like opening at the moment).
Granted, nothing says FP2 has to follow the theory. I have a hunch that there'll be a character who doesn't fit the theory at some point in the pass, much like how Byleth was the sole first-party in FP1.

 

[Smash Monkey]

The Palutena reveal was an exception, not the norm. That direct had the Miis as the big reveal, as well as the amiibos. Customization was the main draw there.

Every other reveal has had a bit showstopper; Mega Man, Ryu, EVERYONE IS HERE + Ridley, Hero + Banjo and Kazooie. Chances are this year was planned to hold up the pattern, though whether or not that showstopper will actually be at E3 proper is up in the air.

Let me respond to your pattern with another pattern.

Both the main game and the DLC had the same trend for characters. Big crazy hype characters early on and around the middle then getting less and less exciting. The main game had Inkling to start, then went big with Ridley, Simon and K. Rool. It wounds down with Isabelle and Incinaroar, who no one was happy with. Fighter Pass 1: Hero and Banjo are the big show stoppers and then it winds down with Terry "Who" Bogard and ends with Byleth, another FE character that no one was excited about. Now, Fighter Pass 2: we just got off the heals of Steve and Sephiroth and the next character is Pyra. Nothing wrong with Pyra. Pyra is awesome. But Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is not on the same level as Minecraft and Final Fantasy 7. We're doing the same song and dance as last time.

As for announces and events, Nintendo has been all over the place. They had a character for the Game Awards in 2018 and 2020 but just skipped in 2019. They didn't hold back Terry or anything or change the pass around. The had the characters and went with it. And, I mean, they showed off Steve who is the big OMG HOW DID NINTENDO DO THIS MIND BLOWN character....in a one off live stream. They could show #10 off before, after, or say **** it, and put them at E3, assuming they even go.

Nintendo is gonna do what Nintendo is going to do. I don't they care about having to have some crazy character. Honestly, I think the "there must be a big character at E3" thing is wishful thinking. No one wants to believe the next character is boring or it wont be the megaton character you've been waiting for. Nintendo went all in with Steve and Sephiroth and are probably going to coast the rest of the way through. That's what its looking like based on Fighter Pass 1 and the main game.

 

[Deleted member]

Wasn't this the first Smash character revealed in a direct since Terry? I think the ESRB stuff happened after that, so there might be some nitpicky ESRB rule that affects how Smash DLC is presented when combined with trailers for other games.

Maybe not, though, it's just a thought.

Yeah this was the first Direct with a character reveal since Terry, and the supposed ESRB stuff probably did take into effect after him given the pop up screens for Altair, Vault Boy, and Travis didn't have their title logos on them.

Though this is the first time Nintendo has added an ESRB disclaimer at the pop up screen, and it's for a Rated T game. Maybe instead of Smash Bros x [character name], we'll finally get to see the title logos appear but with the little disclaimer below it.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

While im not super sure... how do you guys are feeling about Alucard. the theory of second chances have some weight. and since konami is kinda trying to sell their IPs (withouth developing them anything, they are just outsourcing and profiting from their famous IPs) I have 0 doubt that at last konami would be pushing for Alucard since they also are trying to reignite teh love for SotN since they are trying to sell merchandise now.

We also know that the team enjoys castlevania, and very likely sakurai enjoys the character alucard. plus he was considered for ultimate before. and Castlevania has waay too much content in order to pull stuff not already in the game.

Obviouslythe fact that a company is pulling for a character means nothing alone. and even if knami wants alucard in and sakurai might want alucard in, still doesnt means anything. but stranger things have happened.

I honesty still putting my money in other stuff, like a capcom character with monster hunter or chun li, crash, or chosen undead. but i dont think is THAAAT outlandish and has way better chances than other similar characters like, zero, or shovel knight, or even bomberman.

This pass seems less like second chances and more filling the gaps so I don't believe Nintendo are really going to bother with more Castlevania because of how much content the series has. Alucard is already an assist trophy and Castlevania has two playable representatives, a stage, a world of light sub area and a lot of music tracks and spirits.

Nintendo probably felt they didn't have enough ARMS, Final Fantasy VII or Xenoblade 2 content so I'm confident that Monster Hunter is going to be in this pass because I'm certain Nintendo is not satisfied with no playable character, no stage and only 2 songs for a series they are putting so much support into, despite having a sub world, an assist trophy that also acts as a boss.

Also I'm starting to think now that Fighter 11 is a character who could have been picked more recently than the others and will most likely be the exception of this pass. Why? Simply because Nintendo put emphasis that there are six fighters instead of five so I'm thinking they were a later edition.

Anyway I think Monster Hunter Rise Protagonist and Crash Bandicoot are our final characters and I am very confident in this.

 

[Davidius]

Who was the reveal that genuinely shocked you the most? I think Cloud was personally. After that, I got a lot more open minded on what types of characters could happen I think. Or at the very least, I try to.

Snake was the most insane reveal. First third party character and it ends up being from a mature rated franchise generally considered to be a very PlayStation brand. It was the most contrasting thing they could've gone for.

 

[Shroob]

This pass seems less like second chances and more filling the gaps so I don't believe Nintendo are really going to bother with more Castlevania because of how much content the series has. Alucard is already an assist trophy and Castlevania has two playable representatives, a stage, a world of light sub area and a lot of music tracks and spirits.

Nintendo probably felt they didn't have enough ARMS, Final Fantasy VII or Xenoblade 2 content so I'm confident that Monster Hunter is going to be in this pass because I'm certain Nintendo is not satisfied with no playable character, no stage and only 2 songs for a series they are putting so much support into, despite having a sub world, an assist trophy that also acts as a boss.

Also I'm starting to think now that Fighter 11 is a character who could have been picked more recently than the others and will most likely be the exception of this pass. Why? Simply because Nintendo put emphasis that there are six fighters instead of five so I'm thinking they were a later edition.

Anyway I think Monster Hunter Rise Protagonist and Crash Bandicoot are our final characters and I am very confident in this.

That's actually an interesting perspective.


Have we ever questioned why there's an additional 6th character this pass?


Sakurai did say that they were planning on "One or two more", but then we got 5 characters, with a highlight as to "BUT WAIT, THERE'S ONE MORE!"


If we do subscribe to the idea of "Second chance", and go along with a potential roundup of:


Min Min: ARMs missed the boat due to timing
Steve: 5 year discussion
Sephiroth: Lack of FF base game content
Pyra/Mythra: XB2 missed the boat due to timing
Potentially Monster Hunter: A decent amount of base game content, but no playable character


Then maybe the 6th character really was a more recently picked one...?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Thinking about it, if the Blades release early enough, we just might be able to squeeze in another mid-level pick between now and E3. The usual expectation is someone big at E3 and a low-key ending, but if we get super lucky and they release in the first week of March, we could see a sped-up release cycle that ends with an E3 reveal. Those are generally either A: A huge iconic character, B: A popular request, or C: Something related to the game's big draws (Though these are usually reserved for the base game). The obligatory "shillpick" wouldn't really fit in there, so we could have enough room for another low-level pick.

Granted, this is a pretty big what-if, and hinges on us getting really lucky. If we'll actually get that luck, all we can do is wait and see.

I'm personally expecting a double reveal of the last two at E3.

 

[Pillow]

Eh, the anime sword user complaint is just another “I didn’t get who I want therefore the character chosen is a bad choice” opinion that are just multiplying with each addition and ironic when the most unique characters like Steve are added and people are still upset.

Yeah, the fact that Sephiroth was well received despite being the most anime sword of the entire Smash kinda shows that the argument generally has little substance. That said, the thing I like most about Smash is the fact that we have such a wide variety of different characters of different genres. I'd be lying if I said someone like Lloyd or Yuri showing up right after Sephiroth and the Xenobaes wouldn't disappoint me.

Who was the reveal that genuinely shocked you the most? I think Cloud was personally. After that, I got a lot more open minded on what types of characters could happen I think. Or at the very least, I try to.



A couple people mentioned it from what I saw.

Either Cloud or Joker for sure.

The thing with the second chances theory is that they both chose to ignore the protag who was either a Mii costume or an AT and went with someone else, so Alucard wouldn't happen here. This means that someone else would replace Alucard and Sakurai doesn't have good enough taste to add Shanoa, so this is FP10
View attachment 304449

Oh my god, this is it. I'm all in on this bull**** theory now.

 

[Peripuff]

That's actually an interesting perspective.


Have we ever questioned why there's an additional 6th character this pass?


Sakurai did say that they were planning on "One or two more", but then we got 5 characters, with a highlight as to "BUT WAIT, THERE'S ONE MORE!"


If we do subscribe to the idea of "Second chance", and go along with a potential roundup of:


Min Min: ARMs missed the boat due to timing
Steve: 5 year discussion
Sephiroth: Lack of FF base game content
Pyra/Mythra: XB2 missed the boat due to timing
Potentially Monster Hunter: A decent amount of base game content, but no playable character


Then maybe the 6th character really was a more recently picked one...?

That's actually a really good point. Maybe they had a character or 2 in mind but decided to fill up the rest of the spots with characters that just missed the mark.

 

[cashregister9]

I'm personally expecting a double reveal of the last two at E3.

I have huge doubt that Nintendo will do that dumb E3 presentation. Nintendo really only did it for the physical presence. A June Nintendo Direct would not be a large event like E3, So there is no precedent or reason to do something like a double reveal.

(Unless they reveal more DLC)

 

[Shroob]

Thinking about it, if the Blades release early enough, we just might be able to squeeze in another mid-level pick between now and E3. The usual expectation is someone big at E3 and a low-key ending, but if we get super lucky and they release in the first week of March, we could see a sped-up release cycle that ends with an E3 reveal. Those are generally either A: A huge iconic character, B: A popular request, or C: Something related to the game's big draws (Though these are usually reserved for the base game). The obligatory "shillpick" wouldn't really fit in there, so we could have enough room for another low-level pick.

Granted, this is a pretty big what-if, and hinges on us getting really lucky. If we'll actually get that luck, all we can do is wait and see.

Best case scenario:

Sakurai Presents this week
Ends with a "We're holding a special presentation in April/May
P/M release date first week of March



Internet collectively loses its ****.