Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Shroob]

He was snooping as usual, I see.

(Yes, I'm aware he isn't the one who originally said the line, let me have my bad jokes please)

Gotta love how he still said it tho... in an official media.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Gotta love how he still said it tho... in an official media.

...And of course it's Boom, because why wouldn't they?

 

[Ben Holt]

Dr Mario isn’t considered an echo, but he basically is one.

No the **** he isn't.
I'm a Mario main. They play COMPLETELY differently. Just look at the tier list. Mario is high, Doc is low.
Echo Fighter differences are EXTREMELY small if at all existent.

 

[Dinoman96]

Echo Fighter differences are EXTREMELY small if at all existent.

Tell that to Ken lol

 

[Pillow]

No the **** he isn't.
I'm a Mario main. They play COMPLETELY differently. Just look at the tier list. Mario is high, Doc is low.
Echo Fighter differences are EXTREMELY small if at all existent.

Marth and Lucina are also several tiers apart. Ryu and Ken are on different tiers on some lists. Echoes just means they borrow the majority of another characters moveset for ease of development, which Dixie could easily do from Diddy.

My main point was you said Dixie and Impa have enough content to warrant their own moveset. This isn’t wrong. But the thing is, so did Dark Samus. So did Chrom. So did Daisy, and so forth. If making echoes becomes the trend in future Smash games, it’s very likely that Dixie will be an echo instead of a unique fighter, because she fits the same criteria as all the other echoes.

 

[Idon]

Yeah echoes aren't about whether they should be echoes but rather if they could.

I don't like it, but if the echo trend continues, I imagine Dixie might be on the top of the list to start with.

 

[Knight Dude]

Big brain thought.


People are expecting MonHun or Phoenix if the MonHun costumes skip the Pyra/Mythra showcase


yfw it's Ammy

Neat. There's a lot of Capcom characters I like. And a quadruped isn't super common in most fighting games.

How'd you all feel if Firebrand was chosen over Arthur? I don't see it happening, but I think Demon's Crest is by far and away the most fun I had in any of the GnG games so I'm down to shill for him too.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Neat. There's a lot of Capcom characters I like. And a quadruped isn't super common in most fighting games.

How'd you all feel if Firebrand was chosen over Arthur? I don't see it happening, but I think Demon's Crest is by far and away the most fun I had in any of the GnG games so I'm down to shill for him too.

I'd honestly prefer Firebrand over Arthur.

 

[Guynamednelson]

How'd you all feel if Firebrand was chosen over Arthur? I don't see it happening, but I think Demon's Crest is by far and away the most fun I had in any of the GnG games so I'm down to shill for him too

At least it would prove that Min Min and Pyra were chosen for moveset options rather than ATs/Miis.

 

[Pillow]

Neat. There's a lot of Capcom characters I like. And a quadruped isn't super common in most fighting games.

How'd you all feel if Firebrand was chosen over Arthur? I don't see it happening, but I think Demon's Crest is by far and away the most fun I had in any of the GnG games so I'm down to shill for him too.

I’m pretty neutral towards both. GnG just isn’t a series I have much familiarity with. I prefer the usual Capcom front runners over them, with Phoenix likely being my most wanted character overall.

If I had to go with a sleeper weirdo pick from Capcom id probably opt for Sengoku Basara just because I like samurais, even tho I’m not too familiar with the series.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I am once again saying that when Sol gets in Smash that we need this little solo in a Midnight Carnival remix

Also I thought we established that the whole hatred against 'anime characters' in Smash was xenophobia

 

[Perkilator]

No the **** he isn't.
I'm a Mario main. They play COMPLETELY differently. Just look at the tier list. Mario is high, Doc is low.
Echo Fighter differences are EXTREMELY small if at all existent.

You try saying that to Chrom and Ken with a straight face.

That being said, I wish there were more differences among the Echoes we have, along with more Echoes in general (in my case, Shadow and Alph with somewhat different movesets and attributes).

 

[DanganZilla5]

Neat. There's a lot of Capcom characters I like. And a quadruped isn't super common in most fighting games.

How'd you all feel if Firebrand was chosen over Arthur? I don't see it happening, but I think Demon's Crest is by far and away the most fun I had in any of the GnG games so I'm down to shill for him too.

I would be fine with that since Firebrand is cool and Demon's Crest is a sick game. I would say that it would be weird to see him make it in before Arthur as Demon's Crest is the spinoff but we have Joker and after seeing Pythra, yeah the character you'd expect to get in isn't always the first one to get in.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Marth and Lucina are also several tiers apart. Ryu and Ken are on different tiers on some lists. Echoes just means they borrow the majority of another characters moveset for ease of development, which Dixie could easily do from Diddy.

My main point was you said Dixie and Impa have enough content to warrant their own moveset. This isn’t wrong. But the thing is, so did Dark Samus. So did Chrom. So did Daisy, and so forth. If making echoes becomes the trend in future Smash games, it’s very likely that Dixie will be an echo instead of a unique fighter, because she fits the same criteria as all the other echoes.

Dixie as a Echo of Diddy doesn't work..they don't share the same model, that's a start. Diddy has a tail, Dixie has her hair, which she needs for grabs, her Up B, and most of her moves. If she would work as an Echo, we would've seen her. I don't think she did worse than Chrom, Dark Samus and Daisy on the ballot. She was always a very highly requested character, and tops those 3 Echoes because there was a high demand of a new DKC character, Tropical Freeze was relatively recent, she had her own starting role with DKC3, and has unique potential.

Dixie would need her hair as a recovery and floating tool, like Peach has with her float, she needs it for grabs, and she wouldn't do a cartwheel as dash attack. If they would have to implement this many changes, Dixie wouldn't be a Echo.

It wouldn't work, that's why we didn't see it.

 

[Momotsuki]

Dr. Mario did get quite a few touch-ups in Ultimate to make him stand out a bit more. And there's his new down-air, of course. He could not possibly feel more different to play. He's definitely a clone but not quite an echo fighter.

You have to consider seniority too. Dr. Mario has been around for quite a while, and both fighters to retroactively become echo fighters were only introduced in the prior installment.

 

[Perkilator]

As far as video-game types go, I'd say we're missing the "Samurai" archetype.

Unfortunately, the notable ones... don't exactly have a snowball's chance in hell.
View attachment 304256View attachment 304257View attachment 304258View attachment 304259View attachment 304261View attachment 304270
(Adam Williams, Flynn, Haohmaru, Wolf, Takamaru, Lyn)

Man, I wish Takamaru was in the base game.

 

[RoboFist]

Big brain thought.


People are expecting MonHun or Phoenix if the MonHun costumes skip the Pyra/Mythra showcase


yfw it's Ammy

NOW you're thinking with divine instruments!

Man, I wish Takamaru was in the base game.

With Famicom Detective Club finally getting a western release, I'm REALLY hoping for a Mysterious Murasame Castle reboot sometime soon. Because yeah, I would love if Smash's first bona fide samurai was Nintendo's.

 

[Kokiden]

I don't think they're going to make the last 2 fighters clones of anyone.

Given the caliber of the DLC fighters thus far, why would they get lazy and make clones/echoes now?

 

[PK-remling Fire]

Based off of how Nintendo reveals characters, I think the second-to-last character is going to be around Steve/Sephiroth/Banjo levels of excitement for E3, then the final character will be more low-key for a winter reveal.

 

[JustASora/CrashSupporter]

Based off of how Nintendo reveals characters, I think the second-to-last character is going to be around Steve/Sephiroth/Banjo levels of excitement for E3, then the final character will be more low-key for a winter reveal.

Given how character announcements seem to take less time to wait for lately (Steve announced in October, Sephiroth announced in December and Pyra and Mythra announced in February) what if Challenger Pack 10 is revealed in April and Challenger Pack 11 in June (E3, specifically)?

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Given how popular Pyra and Mythra are I wonder if this’ll boost sales of this pass even further than Steve and Sephiroth have. Who knows pass 2 may even outsell pass 1.

you think so?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Given how popular Pyra and Mythra are I wonder if this’ll boost sales of this pass even further than Steve and Sephiroth have. Who knows pass 2 may even outsell pass 1.

you think so?

Yes, these characters from 1 game will surely boost sales even further than the best selling game of all time and one of the most iconic villains of all time already have

 

[Commander_Alph]

Third party character sell the Pass much more than 1st Party, am I right or wrong?

 

[Garteam]

Also I thought we established that the whole hatred against 'anime characters' in Smash was xenophobia

Equating dislike of an art style with intolerance of the culture that produced it is a massive stretch.

Also, making personal attacks on others with major ramifications for their personal character over which characters they do and do not want in a video game is a bit extreme.

 

[I.D.]

Yes, these characters from 1 game will surely boost sales even further than the best selling game of all time and one of the most iconic villains of all time already have

That's right

 

[zeldasmash]

Given how popular Pyra and Mythra are I wonder if this’ll boost sales of this pass even further than Steve and Sephiroth have. Who knows pass 2 may even outsell pass 1.

you think so?

I don't doubt that Pass 2 might outsell Pass 1. Steve alone might be proof enough.

Not sure if Pyra and Mythra will boost sales of the pass more then Steve and Sephiroth did. While I don't deny their popular status, comparing their popularity to the face of the best selling game of all time and one of the biggest and recognizable villains in gaming is going to make them fall short in comparison.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I don't doubt that Pass 2 might outsell Pass 1. Steve alone might be proof enough.

Not sure if Pyra and Mythra will boost sales of the pass more then Steve and Sephiroth did. While I don't deny their popular status, comparing their popularity to the face of the best selling game of all time and one of the biggest and recognizable villains in gaming is going to make them fall short in comparison.

At the very least, more than Min Min I’d wager

P&M are (partially) one of the TOP requests in Japan too

 

[Smash Monkey]

Given how popular Pyra and Mythra are I wonder if this’ll boost sales of this pass even further than Steve and Sephiroth have. Who knows pass 2 may even outsell pass 1.

you think so?

Ehhh, It's hard to compete with Steve and Sephiroth though. Minecraft is such a big series that I'm sure any Zoomer is going to care more about him than any other character in the DLC. Sephy is one of those characters that are popular that people would make Brawl mods for. Pyra and Mythra are more so for the typical Smash fan. All the usual suspects that make Smash videos on Youtube are excited for these character. You can walk up to a normie and tell them the Guy from Minecraft or freakin' Spehiroth are in Smash and they'll realize it's a big deal. They wont know who Pyra or Mythra are. Yet your typical Nintendo fan might be more excited about Pyra and Mythra rather than Edge and Blocks McGee. So, no, I don't think our newest anime swordfighter will generate more sales than the last two characters, but they kinda serve a different purpose in the pass.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Equating dislike of an art style with intolerance of the culture that produced it is a massive stretch.

Also, making personal attacks on others with major ramifications for their personal character over which characters they do and do not want in a video game is a bit extreme.

Idk man, it adds up, there have been quite a few people on this site who are white supremacists who just so happen to constantly go livid about these awful awful 'aneem swoooerd feyeturs". Hero's was the most blatant in that regard with how ridiculously pissed people were at Japan's huge request being acknowleged after years

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Patience is a virtue, but not going to lie that I am anxious and hoping that we get the Sakurai presentation in the next few days. Mostly I want to know the alts that Pythra have, and to see whether Lloyd or MH is our returning Mii costume.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Given how popular Pyra and Mythra are I wonder if this’ll boost sales of this pass even further than Steve and Sephiroth have. Who knows pass 2 may even outsell pass 1.

you think so?

Pass 1 had Joker, pass 2 doesnt. It's also hard to compare them to big daddy Sephiroth

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Pass 1 had Joker, pass 2 doesnt

Pass 1 also had Banjo.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Pass 1 also had Banjo.

And Hero, and Terry. All in all, pass 2 is very much weaker then pass1

 

[ZenythSmash]

Tell that to Ken lol

Echo Fighters at this rate are just another name for clones with an even lower budget, characters that could still act as costumes, and/or just get the same balancing chances as the original fighter.

 

[DarthEnderX]

They also announced I-No, the last character for GG Strive's base roster. Returning villain of the series. Her trailer is so cool and her theme is absolutely bonkers. Sharing the tráiler because he's lol

Guilty Gear Strive makes me so angry....because ArcSys is STILL the only company doing that with the graphics. I remember when Xrd first came out, I thought "This is the best looking video game I've ever seen. Japanese 2D fighting game graphics is now SOLVED. I can't wait until other fighting games I actually play all start doing this too!" Then the next round of fighting games came out, and none of them were doing that, but I was like "It's fine. These games were obviously all in development already when Xrd came out, and it was too late for them to pivot. The next gen though."

It's now 7 years after Xrd, ArcSys has now made SEVERAL more games using that method. And other companies STILL aren't doing that. KoF15 looks better than KoF14, but still like ****. SamSho looks like ****ing SF4. And while SF6 MIGHT finally do something with SFs terrible art style, I honestly doubt it. Because the one downside to the ArcSys method, is it's not really compatible with alt costumes. As every costume is hand animated, animating a new costume is like animating an entirely new character. And, unfortunately, selling costumes is, like, SFs entire business model.

And it's not like it's an ArcSys trade secret! They gave an entire GDC talk about exactly how they do it! And the amazing this about it is how well that method AGES. Xrd STILL looks amazing to this day. It's like the PERFECT art style for a game that you intent to support with DLC for 5-10 years. And the perfect style for if you might plan to reuse the other assets for other games later(cough*Capcom*cough).

I hear people were disappointed in how Daisy, Richter and D.Samus don't have that extra "oomph" that Ken has.

What Swamp Sensei said. People are positive on the idea of Echoes, they just get annoyed when characters don't make the best use of the concept.

Like, the Smash game before this one was the one where characters had all these different customizable versions of their specials. And all of those are gone in Ultimate. There's no reason that characters like Dark Pit, Lucina, Daisy, Dark Samus and Chrom couldn't be making use of some of those moves.

 

[Garteam]

Idk man, it adds up, there have been quite a few people on this site who are white supremacists who just so happen to constantly go livid about these awful awful 'aneem swoooerd feyeturs". Hero's was the most blatant in that regard with how ridiculously pissed people were at Japan's huge request being acknowleged after years

Even assuming some people making this critique are legitimate white supremacists (I mean, I've never seen a white supremacist on Smashboards in the 5+ years I've been here, but I also don't really leave this thread much) and this is their genuine motivation for disliking these characters, it's extremely imprudent and dangerous to assume that this is the universal motivation for anyone pulling the "anime swordfighter" card. As someone who's most wanted were Byleth and Eight, I get it's an annoying, superficial, and childish critique, but trying to paint these people as a legitimately evil group that many of them almost certainly are not is only going to end poorly.

Also, if Japanese xenophobia was a major issue in the Smash fanbase, wouldn't Joker have been the major recipient of this? His game, series, and character are deeply connected to modern Japanese culture and iconography, yet he had the warmest reception of any DLC fighter aside from Banjo.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

I don't doubt that Pass 2 might outsell Pass 1. Steve alone might be proof enough.

Not sure if Pyra and Mythra will boost sales of the pass more then Steve and Sephiroth did. While I don't deny their popular status, comparing their popularity to the face of the best selling game of all time and one of the biggest and recognizable villains in gaming is going to make them fall short in comparison.

They may not outsell Steve and Sephiroth but the Blades will surely add some nice variety to the pass. For me that is an important part here and a good, long term way of making these passes worth a purchase.

They may have boosted the sales just by a bit. Not as much as Steve or Sephiroth but probably just enough for their inclusion to be seen as a success.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

I do wish that Richter, Daisy, Dark Samus and, to a lesser extent, Dark Pit had more differences from their originals but I'm still glad to be able to play them. As for new DLC echos, I wouldn't pay full pack price for them but I'm all for it. Look at my sig and goggle in wonder/bafflement at how many Echo character support threads I've made over the years.

 

[BernkastelWitch]

Eh, I feel like the "Anime swordfighter" argument is basically an easy copout for people to look for a reason to be angry. And we always had people hating on anime artstyles, even on characters like Joker. It's just a log hanging fruit kind of complaint and not a valid one.

I can argue at this point, people are bringing up both because it's basically a meme to do at this rate.

 

[Schnee117]

Guilty Gear Strive makes me so angry....because ArcSys is STILL the only company doing that with the graphics. I remember when Xrd first came out, I thought "This is the best looking video game I've ever seen. Japanese 2D fighting game graphics is now SOLVED. I can't wait until other fighting games I actually play all start doing this too!" Then the next round of fighting games came out, and none of them were doing that, but I was like "It's fine. These games were obviously all in development already when Xrd came out, and it was too late for them to pivot. The next gen though."

It's now 7 years after Xrd, ArcSys has now made SEVERAL more games using that method. And other companies STILL aren't doing that. KoF15 looks better than KoF14, but still like ****. SamSho looks like ****ing SF4. And while SF6 MIGHT finally do something with SFs terrible art style, I honestly doubt it. Because the one downside to the ArcSys method, is it's not really compatible with alt costumes. As every costume is hand animated, animating a new costume is like animating an entirely new character. And, unfortunately, selling costumes is, like, SFs entire business model.

And it's not like it's an ArcSys trade secret! They gave an entire GDC talk about exactly how they do it! And the amazing this about it is how well that method AGES. Xrd STILL looks amazing to this day. It's like the PERFECT art style for a game that you intent to support with DLC for 5-10 years. And the perfect style for if you might plan to reuse the other assets for other games later(cough*Capcom*cough).

What Swamp Sensei said. People are positive on the idea of Echoes, they just get annoyed when characters don't make the best use of the concept.

Like, the Smash game before this one was the one where characters had all these different customizable versions of their specials. And all of those are gone in Ultimate. There's no reason that characters like Dark Pit, Lucina, Daisy, Dark Samus and Chrom couldn't be making use of some of those moves.

Other fighting games simply want their own individual artstyle and visual identity.