Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Perkilator]

RE main issue is being game accurate representation within smash. its a survivial horror game where you can run out of resources. not sure how to rep that in smash or make it fun.

I could think of a way.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

In general, I think, Mii Costumes, Post-Launch spirits, and AT’s probably disconfirm.

It’s mainly a feeling, by the way they have tested them in previous trailers and presentations. It’s a feeling I get.

Context matters too. While I don’t think releasing Callie and Marie costumes would make Nintendo say, “We couldn’t possibly release a Splatoon character now!” It’s more that they would have saved it for the Splatoon character if there was one because all of these characters at this point have been planned.

It’s the same reason why Spirit Events are consequential too. Ring Fit and Astral Chain, as well as Paper Mario, all have had Spirit Events that just wouldn’t make sense to have if they were scheduled to be made playable.

The only game/series that I could see as an exception, is Pokémon. But I still think spirit events probably are a negative given that Three Houses didn’t have a Spirit Event around release.

I’m of the thinking that Mario would get one during the 35th Anniversary...because these things are planned in advance, and it didn’t get one. So in my opinion, it’s not Mario if we get another 1st party in the first place.

It's also notable Pokemon has no Spirit Events for the DLC either. Not much notable, but they are pretty big things for Nintendo, and it's lacking. It should have at least 2 Spirit Events for Gen 8, one for base, one for DLC. Byleth actually released around the time for DLC too, so in a sense the Spirit Event is more of a DLC thing. Not literally, mind you. I agree it's just as easily a death sentence as it feels like we're missing some obvious Spirits for Gen VIII.

-------------------

On another note, the Costumes are an interesting take. All the Capcom Co LTD.(I think we have zero Capcom USA costumes?) were pure grab bag. Monster Hunter's costumes are not the hunter, so I could barely imagine it coming out now, but still get MH as a character later, due to them not caring about promoting them at the same time necessarily(on Nintendo's end. How many Capcom costumes were released to tie in with games among a pack? Almost none, or even in general as is. They're at best pack-related to the character, but that's it). But I don't see Capcom Co LTD being good with this, which is why I expect them together if MH is playable.

 

[SharkLord]

monster hunter has stuff said by Imran already that makes him look disconfirmed.

Imran straight-up said not to trust him on the MH->Byleth thing, and either way the base game was way too long ago for Byleth to be considered. Wouldn't put too much stock in that one.

 

[Pillow]

Compared to that, the last reveal, which tends to dial the hype back down a bit... doesn't really fit that.

Everyone always makes this claim. But Bayonetta was a hype reveal that a lot of people really wanted to see. Not only that but Ultimate is the biggest Smash game ever, and Nintendo knows how far reaching this game's audience is. If they're making a definitive "final" character, I can't help but think they will try to make it an exciting one, against all precedent.

anyone STILL going to the "realistic guns" argument isnt paying attention to how things have changed.
RE main issue is being game accurate representation within smash. its a survivial horror game where you can run out of resources. not sure how to rep that in smash or make it fun.

Except we resource based characters in this game. I can't see how anyone can make this argument after Steve was added to the game. Maybe Nintendo had some qualms about the general tone a RE character would bring, but they absolutely are not lacking in the moveset department...they've even shown up as playable characters in fighting games in several occasions.

 

[Icedragonadam]

I know this sounds nitpicky, but I'm disappointed that the two female DLC characters we got so far were 1st party. Bayonetta is still the only solo female 3rd party in the game.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Hey can I see that “stay tuned for more info soon” tweet again I’m thinking of something

Anyone?

cause um

I think this is it

they’re gonna say soon cuz they’re gonna do the final presentation already, probably.
Why can’t I just step back already... I’ve been through a lot the last several years. This isn’t helping me at all.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Resources aren't an issue with the guns. Being realistic isn't much either(they might as worst not fire regular bullets).

The survival horror part makes it slightly more difficult to have actual proper spirits and such since they're much much different from Casltevania. This is about the only thing actually holding the series back, and that's debatable how much. It's integral to the series to represent. And it's a coincidence Nemesis didn't get a Spirit since they were choosing a multitude of protagonists anyway(as they had enough spots for them). His design I'm sure mattered, but he probably would've been there if they needed another spot. I dunno if honestly there are enough easy spirits, or can be toned down to be a bit more e10+ like. On the other hand? Are they nearly as bad if you remove the blood? Is the bone that bad alone? I dunno. That's pretty subjective. A name is the least of the worries(I.E. the word Hell Hound wouldn't be a big deal), though.

But yeah, I think they can still get in, next game, perhaps. Depends really why they were Spirit'd.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Pythra

Can we stop doing this? Nobody calls Pokemon Trainer "Squivyzard".

You can just say Pyra. Mythra is implied.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard this idea, I could personally commission Sakurai to add Black Shadow as an echo of Ganondorf, a character who he would actually make sense echoing.

Characters should not be echoes/clones of characters from OTHER franchises!

 

[Pillow]

I know this sounds nitpicky, but I'm disappointed that the two female DLC characters we got so far were 1st party. Bayonetta is still the only solo female 3rd party in the game.

Eh, for me I don't really judge characters based on 1st or 3rd party. I like who I like. While I don't like Pyra (Mythra is a little better) I really enjoyed the choice of Min Min for an ARMS Rep.

Besides there aren't that many likely candidates for 3rd party girls. It's just Lara Croft, Chun-Li, Jill Valentine, Arle and maybe Shantae.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I know this sounds nitpicky, but I'm disappointed that the two female DLC characters we got so far were 1st party. Bayonetta is still the only solo female 3rd party in the game.

This is how Lara Croft/Chun-Li wins.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Everyone always makes this claim. But Bayonetta was a hype reveal that a lot of people really wanted to see. Not only that but Ultimate is the biggest Smash game ever, and Nintendo knows how far reaching this game's audience is. If they're making a definitive "final" character, I can't help but think they will try to make it an exciting one, against all precedent.

A Fighter Pass 2 wasn’t planned when Byleth was decided on meaning there was a possibility that we could have ended Smash DLC on him.

And concerning Bayonetta, whilst she absolutely got fan requests, the truth of the matter is that compared to the three requested veterans, Ryu and Cloud, she was absolutely a more low-key character more comparable to a Shulk than a Mega Man.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

A Fighter Pass 2 wasn’t planned when Byleth was decided on meaning there was a possibility that we could have ended Smash DLC on him.

And concerning Bayonetta, whilst she absolutely got fan requests, the truth of the matter is that compared to the three requested veterans, Ryu and Cloud, she was absolutely a more low-key character more comparable to a Shulk than a Mega Man.

Got a source for this?

 

[Pillow]

A Fighter Pass 2 wasn’t planned when Byleth was decided on meaning there was a possibility that we could have ended Smash DLC on him.

And concerning Bayonetta, whilst she absolutely got fan requests, the truth of the matter is that compared to the three requested veterans, Ryu and Cloud, she was absolutely a more low-key character more comparable to a Shulk than a Mega Man.

I've never heard this before, but Byleth was decided on way before they stuck him at the end of FP1. They could have easily decided on FP2 before making the decision to end FP1 on Byleth.

And by that logic then of course the final character will be "lowkey' because it is deadass impossible for any potential character left to top Steve. A Bayonetta level pick would still be ending FP2 on a high note.

 

[Cosmic77]

Even after all the new third-parties we've gotten in Ultimate, Bayo is still one of the smallest and most niche ones on the roster. Won't say she's definitely the most niche because that's up for debate, but she comes close.

Regardless, I wouldn't say Bayo was the character who made Smash 4 end with a bang. A lot of people were indifferent to her and Corrin, and the ballot only made things worse. Expectations were very high that day.

 

[rexfan53]

Anyone?

cause um

I think this is it

they’re gonna say soon cuz they’re gonna do the final presentation already, probably.
Why can’t I just step back already... I’ve been through a lot the last several years. This isn’t helping me at all.

What are u talking about buddy

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Regardless, I wouldn't say Bayo was the character who made Smash 4 end with a bang. A lot of people were indifferent to her and Corrin, and the ballot only made things worse. Expectations were very high that day.

People were expecting characters like .

 

[rexfan53]

A Fighter Pass 2 wasn’t planned when Byleth was decided on meaning there was a possibility that we could have ended Smash DLC on him.

And concerning Bayonetta, whilst she absolutely got fan requests, the truth of the matter is that compared to the three requested veterans, Ryu and Cloud, she was absolutely a more low-key character more comparable to a Shulk than a Mega Man.

People literally forget fe3h was delayed from 2018 to early 2019 to summer 2019

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Got a source for this?

How about the fact that unlike with FP1, there was significant content overlap with base game content for FP2? If an ARMS character was always planned to be DLC, why would there already be content in the base game when Persona 5, Banjo & Kazooie, Dragon Quest, SNK and Three Houses had nothing there? Piranha Plant didn’t even have a spirit in the base game, it came with the character.

 

[Pillow]

How about the fact that unlike with FP1, there was significant content overlap with base game content for FP2? If an ARMS character was always planned to be DLC, why would there already be content in the base game when Persona 5, Banjo & Kazooie, Dragon Quest, SNK and Three Houses had nothing there? Piranha Plant didn’t even have a spirit in the base game, it came with the character.

....That's an argument, not a source.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Got a source for this?

Here's the thing on the first pass being chosen in advance. There's a Sakurai tweet in the article.
https://www.thegamer.com/super-smash-bros-ultimates-dlc-characters-locked-in/
It's a bit muddy, since pass 2 was announced around the same time as the statement, but I l believe there was a different statement beforehand that talked about the lack of plans for a second pass (I can't find it, though. Needs more confirmation). The thought of pass 2 being decided on after Byleth was chosen is basically putting 2 and 2 together. In retrospect it does seem likely that they were considering at least a couple individual characters even if the whole pass wasn't a thing, e.g. Steve.

Edit: I misread the year for some reason. I had a few different articles open. This one is from November 2018, and pass 2 was announced around September 2019. Reading between the lines is still needed, because there were some statements by somebody that pass 2 was finalized mid-2019. So the question is whether the process had begun by the time base game launched.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Here's the thing on the first pass being chosen in advance. There's a Sakurai tweet in the article.
https://www.thegamer.com/super-smash-bros-ultimates-dlc-characters-locked-in/
It's a bit muddy, since pass 2 was announced around the same time as the statement, but I l believe there was a different statement beforehand that talked about the lack of plans for a second pass (I can't find it, though. Needs more confirmation). The thought of pass 2 being decided on after Byleth was chosen is basically putting 2 and 2 together. In retrospect it does seem likely that they were considering at least a couple individual characters even if the whole pass wasn't a thing, e.g. Steve.

I outright remember him talking about characters after Pass 1, but the Pass 2 thing was later, as well.

Makes sense to me. This is also why I believe PP is the only Bonus DLC. There were more at one point, but things changed. It's not impossible to get more, of course, and we have may have time for it. Maybe a few cheaper echoes, maybe a few unique stand alones. Could be one more year, but not an actual pass. Etc.

Note that Sakurai did confirm they were the last 6 character packs. That suggests no straight pass is coming period(not that a bonus character is impossible). HIs other statement of "Ultimate's life span is coming to an end" convinced me it's the end, though.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

And by that logic then of course the final character will be "lowkey' because it is deadass impossible for any potential character left to top Steve. A Bayonetta level pick would still be ending FP2 on a high note.

My point is that the hype Bayonetta got among the Smash fanbase was far less than every other DLC character in Smash 4 except Corrin and so she absolutely was not a character that made Smash end on a “high note”. She still fits the pattern.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

My thoughts are that the first pass was probably already planned, but fighter pass 2, as it is now, wasn’t.

What do I mean by that? I mean that there were probably a few characters that wouldn’t make it a fully fledged pass who WERE planned, until they decided to make it a fully fledged season 2 and expanded it to include a few more.

But please, the Byleth is Monster Hunter meme is trash and not true whatsoever. It makes no sense.

 

[RileyXY1]

I believe that FP2 is it and Ultimate will have no more characters.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

But please, the Byleth is Monster Hunter meme is trash and not true whatsoever. It makes no sense.

If there was going to be a unique FE character planned it would have been Celica due to timing as Shadows of Valentia was even planned to be released in September 2016 before being delayed.

 

[Lamperouge]

Can we stop doing this?

Alright.

I sure can't wait for Myra's presentation.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

Alright.

I sure can't wait for Myra's presentation.

Honestly, I like this better.

Pythra just makes me think of reptiles.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

At the end of Byleth’s presentation, Sakurai said something along the lines of, “We’re going to continue bringing DLC content down the line. I thought that maybe 1 or 2 might suffice, but...well...” and then 6 additional packs were revealed.

It’s highly likely this is just him saying “surprise! 6 more!” But I think it’s highly plausible that there were originally going to just be a few extras (In my humble opinion, I think it was Steve and Sephiroth at least), but then decided to make it into something more. This allowed them to revisit ARMS and XC2.

I’m probably wrong though. All I’d say is that 3rd parties seem all over the place, while First parties have been consistent with being emblematic of Switch first party software that previously had minimal content or no playable character to directly represent it.

Mii Costumes will dictate quite a bit going forward, I think. If, for example, we get a KOS-MOS Mii with Pyra/Mythra, but don’t get Lloyd...I think that is suspicious enough to suggest he might be coming later. Granted, I expect him to be there personally.

Monster Hunter is also interesting here. If it’s not here with Pyra/Mythra, then it suggests two scenarios: one in which is becomes playable, and one in which a related genre/series from IP holder (Capcom) is the playable pick.

It’s always fun to have implications from a Mii costume reveal in one of these presentations, I’m plenty excited to play the Xeno-gals, but I must admit...with two characters left this has the potential to shake things up.

 

[Pillow]

My point is that the hype Bayonetta got among the Smash fanbase was far less than every other DLC character in Smash 4 except Corrin and so she absolutely was not a character that made Smash end on a “high note”. She still fits the pattern.

Well in that case we must be remembering things differently. My impression was that people were absolutely popping off when Bayo was announced, but anyone who wasn't a fan of her was obviously disappointed because she was very clearly the final character. In that sense, any character for Ultimate will receive the same fate because you can't please everybody and FP2 is likely the end.

Monster Hunter is also interesting here. If it’s not here with Pyra/Mythra, then it suggests two scenarios: one in which is becomes playable, and one in which a related genre/series from IP holder (Capcom).

It’s always fun to have implications from a Mii costume reveal in one of these presentations, I’m plenty excited to play the Xeno-gals, but I must admit...with two characters left this has the potential to shake things up.

Yeah, I feel the same way about MH. Seeing if the costumes show up next is actually the thing I'm most anticipating for the Pyra stream, because to me it'll indicate if we will get a Capcom character or not.

And if they don't show up, the speculation scene will begin the great Capcom character war where we debate if FP10 will be Chun-Li, Dante, Monster Hunter, Phoenix, or Jill. That's exciting !

 

[dezeray112]

Here it is.

/v/ - Video Games » Thread #539627752

arch.b4k.co

With the list of songs it claims Crash and Monster Hunter being the last two fighters.

As much as I really would really like to hear another orchestrated concert based on Smash music, I'll take that leak with a grain of salt.

 

[Perkilator]

I believe that FP2 is it and Ultimate will have no more characters.

How many times have you just said this? If it's over, then Sakurai will say as such. Let's just wait.

 

[Ivander]

Honestly, I like this better.

Pythra just makes me think of reptiles.

When I think of Myra, I can only think of this:

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Don’t get me wrong

It’s generally a good rule of thumb to keep expectations low. I was that way going into ultimate and was so happy with EVERYONE IS HERE

but jumping to conclusions isn’t good either

Sakurai can change his mind. At one point FPV1 was gonna be the only pass

it’s hard right now (especially for me cause my preferred alternative had more sentimental, even personal value for me) but... it’s not over until he says so on stream

which i AM ironically expecting to happen soon, but maybe if I expect that to happen, the opposite thing will

what I’m saying is, since Nintendo’s commissioning the dlc it’s not over till they say so

this helps keep me going...

 

[3BitSaurus]

Everyone always makes this claim. But Bayonetta was a hype reveal that a lot of people really wanted to see. Not only that but Ultimate is the biggest Smash game ever, and Nintendo knows how far reaching this game's audience is. If they're making a definitive "final" character, I can't help but think they will try to make it an exciting one, against all precedent.

I mean... I think Bayo was one of 4's best reveals, but there's no way I can say she had the same reaction as Cloud. That's what people usually mean when they say the hype dials down - it's not that the last reveal will be outright bad, it's just that we shouldn't expect a huge bomb to drop on us.

People can say "but this is DLC, they would want to end on a really high note", but people were saying this in Volume 1, expecting something like Master Chief or Crash... and then Byleth happened. I feel like it's best to lower my expectations a bit when it comes to these last two reveals.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

When I think of Myra, I can only think of this:
View attachment 304223

I am deeply concerned.

There is no escape.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

When I think of Myra, I can only think of this:
View attachment 304223

Excuse me what the ****?

 

[spicynun]

Mii Costumes will dictate quite a bit going forward, I think. If, for example, we get a KOS-MOS Mii with Pyra/Mythra, but don’t get Lloyd...I think that is suspicious enough to suggest he might be coming later. Granted, I expect him to be there personally.

Monster Hunter is also interesting here. If it’s not here with Pyra/Mythra, then it suggests two scenarios: one in which is becomes playable, and one in which a related genre/series from IP holder (Capcom) is the playable pick.

It’s always fun to have implications from a Mii costume reveal in one of these presentations, I’m plenty excited to play the Xeno-gals, but I must admit...with two characters left this has the potential to shake things up.

I said this in another thread, but I want a Capcom rep (mainly Phoenix) and Lloyd the most and the fact this mii costume reveal has the potential to make them both seem unlikely in one swoop makes me a bit nervous lol.

 

[Dinoman96]

One thing that might be worth considering is that Sakurai hasn't actually said FP2 was it for this game since he talked about Min Min last year. Like he could of, at the very least, acknowledged that FP2 was half way through after Sephiroth's reveal, but IIRC he hasn't actually said anything about FP2 being the end since July of last year.

inb4 Sakurai reiterates that FP2 is it in Pyra/Mythra's showcase

 

[Rie Sonomura]

One thing that might be worth considering is that Sakurai hasn't actually said FP2 was it for this game since he talked about Min Min last year. Like he could of, at the very least, acknowledged that FP2 was half way through after Sephiroth's reveal, but IIRC he hasn't actually said anything about FP2 being the end since July of last year.

inb4 Sakurai reiterates that FP2 is it in Pyra/Mythra's showcase

I mean hopefully the sales numbers, more leisurely pace of making dlc, and Nintendo potentially extending the switch’s lifespan may convince Sakurai he’s still got a bit more tricks up his sleeve

hopefully.

 

[SKX31]

So what I'm getting from your post is... Charles V confirmed?

I have to say it's not what I expected, but then again we do have a Spirit from a game called Napoleon, so I guess it makes sense in hindsight.

He's not been a Civ character just yet (in order to make this awkward segue). His maternal grandma (Isabelle I, one of Spain's unifiers together with her husband) is a Civ mainstay though, so a Civ rep confirmed. Or Europa Universalis confirmed, Charles V is a playable monarch there because that game series covers 1400s - early 1800s (just after Napoleon historically was defeated go figure).

Spoiler: Slight in-depth talk

That Coat of Arms came about because A) Nobles and especially royals generally loved to boast about being "Lord of X, Y, Z, AA..." (the English monarchs' Coat of Arms were only slightly less of a ****ing disaster, and this was the period when they claimed the French throne and put the French Coat of Arms on their own) and because the Habsburg dynasty really wanted to keep the royal power within the family. It... didn't end well.

Well in that case we must be remembering things differently. My impression was that people were absolutely popping off when Bayo was announced, but anyone who wasn't a fan of her was obviously disappointed because she was very clearly the final character. In that sense, any character for Ultimate will receive the same fate because you can't please everybody and FP2 is likely the end.

I mean... I think Bayo was one of 4's best reveals, but there's no way I can say she had the same reaction as Cloud. That's what people usually mean when they say the hype dials down - it's not that the last reveal will be outright bad, it's just that we shouldn't expect a huge bomb to drop on us.

People can say "but this is DLC, they would want to end on a really high note", but people were saying this in Volume 1, expecting something like Master Chief or Crash... and then Byleth happened. I feel like it's best to lower my expectations a bit when it comes to these last two reveals.

People who were familiar with Bayo popped off (Maximillian for example) while people who didn't know her didn't have as strong of an impression initially. I presume that's part of the whole "Bayo didn't end Smash 4 with a bang" comes from.

Which misses the fact that her post-release reception was absolutely a big thing within the Smash community - she got a ton of results and infamy to the point she became nigh-synonymous with Smash 4. That's not part of the initial reactions, no, but post-release reception is a major part of a character's / serie's fame. Similarily, Joker and Hero were talked about for a long while after release (for very different reasons, mind) but being part of the post-release conversation does matter because people talk even longer about the characters.

There are some DLC characters that didn't have a lot of post-release talk: was considered strong with a really good kill confirm (Jab -> SHORYUKEN!) but he was wildly overshadowed by and as those two dominated the post-release talk (and the competitive scene, which amplified the post-release talk). could've been talked about more post-release had the duo gotten more results (like if noted multi-character master Tweek stuck with B-K after getting Top 8 with them in a major tournament), but they've not gotten as much post-release talk as they could've. Arguably not as much as / .