Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SharkLord]

One thing that might be worth considering is that Sakurai hasn't actually said FP2 was it for this game since he talked about Min Min last year. Like he could of, at the very least, acknowledged that FP2 was half way through after Sephiroth's reveal, but IIRC he hasn't actually said anything about FP2 being the end since July of last year.

inb4 Sakurai reiterates that FP2 is it in Pyra/Mythra's showcase

This seems like a good time to explain the status of Smash beyond FP2, assuming they're not pulling a "PSYCHE!" at the very end. Maybe it'll go on some more, maybe it won't. I'm keeping my expectations low until further notice, though.

 

[Pillow]

I mean... I think Bayo was one of 4's best reveals, but there's no way I can say she had the same reaction as Cloud. That's what people usually mean when they say the hype dials down - it's not that the last reveal will be outright bad, it's just that we shouldn't expect a huge bomb to drop on us.

People can say "but this is DLC, they would want to end on a really high note", but people were saying this in Volume 1, expecting something like Master Chief or Crash... and then Byleth happened. I feel like it's best to lower my expectations a bit when it comes to these last two reveals.

Sure, I can get behind this. It's better to temper expectations to avoid disappointment, and the only character left in my mind that could conceivably compete with Steve on a global scale is Master Chief. I still legitimately think that FP2 will end strong though and leave as few people disappointed as possible.

I said this in another thread, but I want a Capcom rep (mainly Phoenix) and Lloyd the most and the fact this mii costume reveal has the potential to make them both seem unlikely in one swoop makes me a bit nervous lol.

But consider this - we might get a Hollow Knight deluxe Mii costume to accompany all the other swordguy costumes! Swords everywhere!

Which misses the fact that her post-release reception was absolutely a big thing within the Smash community - she got a ton of results and infamy to the point she became nigh-synonymous with Smash 4. That's not part of the initial reactions, no, but post-release reception is a major part of a character's / serie's fame. Similarily, Joker and Hero were talked about for a long while after release (for very different reasons, mind) but being part of the post-release conversation does matter because people talk even longer about the characters.

Yeah, I was only talking about the initial reception of a character. Smash 4 Bayo became hated shortly after her release for very obvious reasons unrelated to her character and series popularity.

 

[Ivander]

Excuse me what the ****?

Ah, the beauty of knowing what they got away with in the Era of Sprite games back in the 80s/90s. Especially when it comes to games not many know about. looks at Lost Magic

But anyway, behold the final boss of Breath of Fire.

 

[Shroob]

One week left in Feb.

Then we enter the "Soon" zone.


I'd love P/M to drop say, the first week of March, or at the very least, their presentation, but I doubt it.


The only thing I'm questioning is, if Nintendo's keeping up their "1 big drop a week" scheduling, which week is free in March, exactly? Because Rise comes out the 26th, and while that may be 3rd Party, it's a BIG Switch exclusive.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Man though.

Let's say Chief was revealed at E3.


I don't care who it is, there's just no ****ing way to follow that up(Let's just take Sora off the table for this train of thought). Everyone will feel like a lesser inclusion compared to goddamn Master Chief.

As the local Master Chief super fan, I’ll have to admit that Kratos could give Chief a run for his money. But that’s reeeeeeeally unlikely.

 

[Dinoman96]

Master Chief is a weird duck in that obviously it'd make the western fanbase explode, but make the most of the Japanese fanbase just scratch their heads.

Basically Hero but in reverse.

 

[DarthEnderX]

My thoughts are that the first pass was probably already planned, but fighter pass 2, as it is now, wasn’t.

My thoughts are...Sakurai always knew everyone who was going to be in Ultimate, right from the start. They only thing not set in stone was the order. And if, for some reason, the 1st pass sold like crap, they might have just cancelled the 2nd pass, but they always knew who the characters would be.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Y'know, Pyra & Mythra where just prai_mai of the Forbidden Seven. And since they brought back everyone else from the Forbidden Seven since Smash 4 and Ultimate, the next characters will obviously be Dixie and Toon Zelda / Toon Sheik.

Obviously

 

[3BitSaurus]

People who were familiar with Bayo popped off (Maximillian for example) while people who didn't know her didn't have as strong of an impression initially. I presume that's part of the whole "Bayo didn't end Smash 4 with a bang" comes from.

Which misses the fact that her post-release reception was absolutely a big thing within the Smash community - she got a ton of results and infamy to the point she became nigh-synonymous with Smash 4. That's not part of the initial reactions, no, but post-release reception is a major part of a character's / serie's fame. Similarily, Joker and Hero were talked about for a long while after release (for very different reasons, mind) but being part of the post-release conversation does matter because people talk even longer about the characters.

There are some DLC characters that didn't have a lot of post-release talk: was considered strong with a really good kill confirm (Jab -> SHORYUKEN!) but he was wildly overshadowed by and as those two dominated the post-release talk (and the competitive scene, which amplified the post-release talk). could've been talked about more post-release had the duo gotten more results (like if noted multi-character master Tweek stuck with B-K after getting Top 8 with them in a major tournament), but they've not gotten as much post-release talk as they could've. Arguably not as much as / .

I mean, sure, but the thing here is that we're pretty much just comparing the reveals themselves. I think few people would argue against the lack of opportunities left to top Steve and Sephiroth back to back. As far as the characters themselves go, I'd rather not expect the last reveal to be earth-shattering, cool movesets notwithstanding.

If it is, though, and we do get something like Chief, well, that's a crow I'll gladly eat.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Y'know, Pyra & Mythra where just prai_mai of the Forbidden Seven. And since they brought back everyone else from the Forbidden Seven since Smash 4 and Ultimate, the next characters will obviously be Dixie and Toon Zelda / Toon Sheik.

Obviously

So apparently Pyra & Mythra can time travel, neat

 

[Shroob]

So apparently Pyra & Mythra can time travel, neat

Wouldn't be that weird by Xenoblade standards.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To me, I can see that MH bit with Byleth work fine. Because it's just a special situation where MH was not able to be played as, but he liked the concept of a mult-weapon user and looked at Byleth. He couldn't use 'em during the delay however. Whether Nintendo knew of this and chose them later or not is unknown. It could be part of why even, since Sakurai had an idea already.

It's not a "replacement", but an idea he found another character he could use the concept for. That's the reason it still works, especially since 3H was supposed to be way earlier, in-time for the base game at least.

It's also why I can fully believe Chun-Li was considered, but Ken was easier to make. Is it possible Ken was similar to replacement in context, that they still wanted one, but he wasn't considered at the same time? Sure. But I think both were considered anyway.

I also see this as why MH easily would be come back to. Byleth only had a similar concept, not the actual playstyle. A good example is among two clone-type characters. Toon Link and Young Link. They're both child forms, and similar concepts, but play very very differently. Albeit, MH and Byleth wouldn't be remotely similar beyond a concept, but that's kind of my point anyway. Analogy isn't the best, but I hope that explains what I mean a bit better.

 

[Dinoman96]

Y'know, Pyra & Mythra where just prai_mai of the Forbidden Seven. And since they brought back everyone else from the Forbidden Seven since Smash 4 and Ultimate, the next characters will obviously be Dixie and Toon Zelda / Toon Sheik.

Obviously

I say this a lot, but it really blows that Sakurai couldn't implement the Diddy/Dixie tagteam concept he had envisioned back in Brawl.

Like even if it turned out to be gimmicky and awful as Pokemon Trainer was (in Brawl, obv), at least it still would of been the ticket to getting Dixie into Smash Bros., and they'd more than likely be split off into her own characters anyways in Smash 4 as Zelda/Sheik and Samus/ZSS were.

Alas.

 

[SharkLord]

To me, I can see that MH bit with Byleth work fine. Because it's just a special situation where MH was not able to be played as, but he liked the concept of a mult-weapon user and looked at Byleth. He couldn't use 'em during the delay however. Whether Nintendo knew of this and chose them later or not is unknown. It could be part of why even, since Sakurai had an idea already.

It's not a "replacement", but an idea he found another character he could use the concept for. That's the reason it still works, especially since 3H was supposed to be way earlier, in-time for the base game at least.

It's also why I can fully believe Chun-Li was considered, but Ken was easier to make. Is it possible Ken was similar to replacement in context, that they still wanted one, but he wasn't considered at the same time? Sure. But I think both were considered anyway.

I also see this as why MH easily would be come back to. Byleth only had a similar concept, not the actual playstyle. A good example is among two clone-type characters. Toon Link and Young Link. They're both child forms, and similar concepts, but play very very differently. Albeit, MH and Byleth wouldn't be remotely similar beyond a concept, but that's kind of my point anyway. Analogy isn't the best, but I hope that explains what I mean a bit better.

The problem is that Byleth couldn't have been planned for the base game. Incineroar, Greninja, Corrin, they all had a couple months to a year between their decisions and their game's release. Even before the delay, that would be about two entire years between Byleth being chosen and Three Houses' release. In comparison, Incineroar, who was planned in advance for the base game, was from a game released the following year. I can buy Sakurai reusing a concept he really liked, but not Byleth being shunted back from the base game.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Also I’m honestly hoping, like actually HOPING the symphony rumor is fake cuz

last time for the Melee symphony Sakurai overworked himself to a point he was hospitalized

THIS COULD ACTUALLY KILL HIM I FEAR.

granted melee was worked on in the short span of only 13 months. But still.

 

[SharkLord]

Also I’m honestly hoping, like actually HOPING the symphony rumor is fake cuz

last time for the Melee symphony Sakurai overworked himself to a point he was hospitalized

THIS COULD ACTUALLY KILL HIM I FEAR.

granted melee was worked on in the short span of only 13 months. But still.

If it's any solace, random anonymous 4chan leaks that can't even remember Ken's Theme are 99.99% going to be fake. Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[Pillow]

If it's any solace, random anonymous 4chan leaks that can't even remember Ken's Theme are 99.99% going to be fake. Nothing to see here, move along.

Not to mention the fact that an orchestral concert playing that many songs would be obscenely long. If the leaker wanted it to be realistic they actually should have cut more than Ken.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Also I’m honestly hoping, like actually HOPING the symphony rumor is fake cuz

last time for the Melee symphony Sakurai overworked himself to a point he was hospitalized

THIS COULD ACTUALLY KILL HIM I FEAR.

granted melee was worked on in the short span of only 13 months. But still.

The only symphony rumour allowed is about going back to scrapped ideas. A certain... Nocturnal symphony if you will. A certain classic white haired pretty boy from an iconic and influential game.




THAT'S RIGHT EVERYONE OUR LAD SOMA CRUZ TO MAKE UP FOR ALUCARD BEING AN AT FOR OUR FIRST VAMPIRE

 

[Pillow]

The only symphony rumour allowed is about going back to scrapped ideas. A certain... Nocturnal symphony if you will. A certain classic white haired pretty boy from an iconic and influential game.




THAT'S RIGHT EVERYONE OUR LAD SOMA CRUZ TO MAKE UP FOR ALUCARD BEING AN AT FOR OUR FIRST VAMPIRE

And here I thought you would be a Shanoa stan. Soma is someone I can get behind though he's just ****ing cool.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

And here I thought you would be a Shanoa stan. Soma is someone I can get behind though he's just ****ing cool.

Oh I am indeed a Shanoa stan, but I can't say she's a whitehaired vampire or anything nor can I pretend she was in SotN

 

[chocolatejr9]

Oh I am indeed a Shanoa stan, but I can't say she's a whitehaired vampire or anything nor can I pretend she was in SotN

Well, you TECHNICALLY could, but it would be inaccurate...

 

[RGFS]

Not to mention the fact that an orchestral concert playing that many songs would be obscenely long. If the leaker wanted it to be realistic they actually should have cut more than Ken.

I found it really weird the "leaker" chose to put Adventure from Dragon Quest III instead of the main theme Overture, it more fittingly represents all the Heroes. Also, the main composer seems to be something else when it comes to his music so I don't think I can believe it. The Ken mishap makes it even less likely. You'd also think they'd wait to rehearse the last few songs until after the respective fighters were revealed right? This screwup seems too perfect, even for Nintendo.

 

[I.D.]

Can we stop doing this? Nobody calls Pokemon Trainer "Squivyzard".

This debate got settled by the game itself over 3 years ago

 

[Shroob]

I found it really weird the "leaker" chose to put Adventure from Dragon Quest III instead of the main theme Overture, it more fittingly represents all the Heroes. Also, the main composer seems to be something else when it comes to his music so I don't think I can believe it. The Ken mishap makes it even less likely. You'd also think they'd wait to rehearse the last few songs until after the respective fighters were revealed right? This screwup seems too perfect, even for Nintendo.

I mean, to be fair, I think the leak is fake as **** but we only have like a grand total of 3 seconds of Overture in Smash. Thanks, Sugumiya.

 

[chocolatejr9]

This debate got settled by the game itself over 3 years ago

View attachment 304227

Though canonically, their name is Pneuma...

 

[Idon]

Though canonically, their name is Pneuma...

Well for one, spoilers

For two, does anyone else find it super weird that in the ending of XC2, they become entirely separate people and don't just stick together as Pneuma?

 

[Lamperouge]

Though canonically, their name is Pneuma...

'Scuse me, it's "Coffee with Milk" around these parts.

 

[Shroob]

Well for one, spoilers

For two, does anyone else find it super weird that in the ending of XC2, they become entirely separate people and don't just stick together as Pneuma?

I saw that edit, Idon.

Lay it on me.

 

[SKX31]

Not to mention the fact that an orchestral concert playing that many songs would be obscenely long. If the leaker wanted it to be realistic they actually should have cut more than Ken.

I mean, it would be an EPIC orchestra if it included everything:

I can't wait for the Orchestral version of Environmental Noises.

 

[I.D.]

Though canonically, their name is

Spoiler

Despite being commonly used by fans to refer to her, Pneuma is not actually her "official" name but the name of her core crystal, just as Malos' name is not Logos. The Architect initially refers to both Pyra and Mythra as Pneuma before later correcting himself by calling them "Pyra and Mythra". She is referred to as "Pyra's ascended state" in the game and as "Pyra (awakened)" by the Japanese guide. In the game files she has as name "Homuri", a combination of Homura (Pyra) and Hikari (Mythra). Xenoblade 2: Official Artworks refers to Pyra and Mythra's ascended state as "Pneuma (Awakened Pyra/Mythra)", making it the first official material to use Pneuma's name for the ascended form.

 

[Idon]

I saw that edit, Idon.

Lay it on me.

View attachment 304230

Well, I was gonna, but then I realized... I needed more characters. Allow me to think and I'll get back to you.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Well, you TECHNICALLY could, but it would be inaccurate...

Order of Ecclesia's my second favourite game, I refuse to say anything even remotely inaccurate about it such as "This game isn't flawless"

Well for one, spoilers

For two, does anyone else find it super weird that in the ending of XC2, they become entirely separate people and don't just stick together as Pneuma?

Sakurai spoiled **** about 3H when it was brand new, I don't think he cares about spoilers.

Cause that would mean Rex doesn't get a harem as large as it could be

 

[3BitSaurus]

I can't wait for the Orchestral version of Environmental Noises.

You say orchestral version of Environmental Noises, I raise you an orchestral version of Roy's Star KO scream.

"Every tune is here... including SFX!"

 

[Idon]

Order of Ecclesia's my second favourite game, I refuse to say anything even remotely inaccurate about it such as "This game isn't flawless"

Sakurai spoiled **** about 3H when it was brand new, I don't think he cares about spoilers.

Cause that would mean Rex doesn't get a harem as large as it could be

Pyra and Mythra our first polyamorous character, let's ****ing goooooooooooooooo.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Pyra and Mythra our first polyamorous character, let's ****ing goooooooooooooooo.

Smh Byleth is right there with their wife Edelgard with her wife Dorothea and her husband Ferdinand and his husband Hubert and his wife Bernadetta an-

 

[Pillow]

You say orchestral version of Environmental Noises, I raise you an orchestral version of Roy's Star KO scream.

"Every tune is here... including SFX!"

Imagine being hired to sing in front a crowd as part of an orchestra then being told your role was to make Pacmana waka waka sounds for 5 minutes straight.

Pyra and Mythra our first polyamorous character, let's ****ing goooooooooooooooo.

Joker though. And Robin, Corrin, Byleth. Ganondorf. Probably Bayonetta.

 

[Idon]

Joker though. And Robin, Corrin, Byleth. Ganondorf. Probably Bayonetta.

Poly relationships usually operate on consent and judging by how the girls Joker dates react to finding out about each other, I would hesitate to say they all agreed on sharing him.

For the FE characters, you'll only marry one at a time. For Bayonetta we don't even see her date anyone and if there's anyone special in her life, I only see Jeanne. And well, for Ganondorf, I don't even think he interacts with people as a whole... besides killing them.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Smh Byleth is right there with their wife Edelgard with her wife Dorothea and her husband Ferdinand and his husband Hubert and his wife Bernadetta an-

I swear I've seen this joke before, but with Blue Lions.

 

[DevaAshera]

Yeah, the one that only had Street Fighter, Final Fight, Red Earth and Darkstalkers. Now let's get another one that has an additional 12 or more Capcom franchises.

Yeah..and I don't know why it didnt even include poster girl Morrigan and make use of the Marvel vs Capcom 1 & 2 characters since then they could easily include Mega Man, Roll, Tron Bonne, Jin, & Strider Hiryu.

it would be safer to say all of fp2 is fire characters or include fire

I wasn't really going for safe or even a theory, just saying it was funny that all of the DLC characters are associated with fire in some fashion.
I could also have gone with his mask burning away or Arsene's association with blue fire for Joker.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I swear I've seen this joke before, but with Blue Lions.

3H is a Fire Emblem game, shipping wars will naturally occur as long as you can make one person smooch another