Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I swear this is Bandanna Waddle Dee discourse all over again.

Not quite. The main argument here is that Toad the character, Toad the species, and Captain Toad all have the same appeal, so one getting more popular or whatever helps the other two in terms of getting included, whereas the Bandana Waddle Dee argument is just "lol no generic enemies allowed".

EDIT: And I will say that I don't really have a stance on it other than that Toad the character is very strange, and also that they should have added Captain Toad instead of making Baby Rosalina but that's an entirely separate matter.

 

[Dr. Yatagarasu]

You misunderstand me. I’m not saying they aren’t different, aesthetics and moveset is a way in which they differ. As well as all the others.
I’m just saying that nobody actually sees them as all that different. At the end of the day, its still just Toad. Regardless of whether or not they have a suit on, its still just a version of Toad. When people say they want Toad, 9/10 times they are also talking about Captain Toad.

Pig Ganon isn’t wanted because hes a wanted inclusion next to Ganondorf, hes wanted so one of gamings most iconic can be done as anything other than a semi clone. And I don’t think anybody cares about ZSS outside of moveset.

Honestly there are quite a few older characters in general that could use an overhaul. Ganondorf is probably the most egregious example, but a lot of movesets are either outdated (So a Link style update would be cool) or just kind of bad these days (please give Kirby better specials)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You misunderstand me. I’m not saying they aren’t different, aesthetics and moveset is a way in which they differ. As well as all the others.
I’m just saying that nobody actually sees them as all that different. At the end of the day, its still just Toad. Regardless of whether or not they have a suit on, its still just a version of Toad. When people say they want Toad, 9/10 times they are also talking about Captain Toad.

Pig Ganon isn’t wanted because hes a wanted inclusion next to Ganondorf, hes wanted so one of gamings most iconic can be done as anything other than a semi clone. And I don’t think anybody cares about ZSS outside of moveset.

No, 9 times out of 10 they aren't talking about Captain Toad. Some think they are the same character, but that's a US only thing due to a bad strategy guide, so it's not their fault they were misinformed. Doesn't change that two entirely different characters are being supported.

Oh, and Pig Ganon is absolutely wanted because he's a different version from Ganondorf too. That's one of the biggest reasons he has support, due to unique abilities. Not just being iconic too. He's actually far more spellcaster-like than Ganondorf ever was(who actually focuses on being more physical in games now, though that was effectively planned since after OOT, and even his artwork shows him being physical). Being iconic isn't enough alone. People do care about movesets too, since that's what helps them support others. ...And why do you think ZSS is liked? Exactly. Movesets. These are a huge reason for character support. This is why there's support topics for a BOTW Zelda, Link's Awakening Link, etc. They do matter a lot, honestly.

I'm not saying they aren't mistakeningly supported like they're one character, but at the end of the day they aren't, and that matters too for Sakurai. He doesn't group together characters as alts unless they actually can share the same abilities, and well... these two just plain don't. Even Bowser Jr. is lucky to have those alts, because of the Clown Car specifically. That's the entire moveset, and it only has like one Bowser Jr. specific move, being the Final Smash. Pikmin and Alph is an alt cause he literally has no unique abilities from Olimar as is. He was an easy one with a slight adjustment of the model, and since the Pikmin are a core part, there's even less reason for a split right now(especially as it was only during Smash 4 Pikmin had enough relevance to justify an echo/clone. Ultimate... it was pretty much dead, so. The other Echoes made more sense due to the series they're from or other special situations like Simon/Richter specifically borrowing from each other).

I get what you're saying, but you're oversimplifying the support too.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

No, 9 times out of 10 they aren't talking about Captain Toad. Some think they are the same character, but that's a US only thing due to a bad strategy guide, so it's not their fault they were misinformed. Doesn't change that two entirely different characters are being supported.

Oh, and Pig Ganon is absolutely wanted because he's a different version from Ganondorf too. That's one of the biggest reasons he has support, due to unique abilities. Not just being iconic too. He's actually far more spellcaster-like than Ganondorf ever was(who actually focuses on being more physical in games now, though that was effectively planned since after OOT, and even his artwork shows him being physical). Being iconic isn't enough alone. People do care about movesets too, since that's what helps them support others. ...And why do you think ZSS is liked? Exactly. Movesets. These are a huge reason for character support. This is why there's support topics for a BOTW Zelda, Link's Awakening Link, etc. They do matter a lot, honestly.

I'm not saying they aren't mistakeningly supported like they're one character, but at the end of the day they aren't, and that matters too for Sakurai. He doesn't group together characters as alts unless they actually can share the same abilities, and well... these two just plain don't. Even Bowser Jr. is lucky to have those alts, because of the Clown Car specifically. That's the entire moveset, and it only has like one Bowser Jr. specific move, being the Final Smash. Pikmin and Alph is an alt cause he literally has no unique abilities from Olimar as is. He was an easy one with a slight adjustment of the model, and since the Pikmin are a core part, there's even less reason for a split right now(especially as it was only during Smash 4 Pikmin had enough relevance to justify an echo/clone. Ultimate... it was pretty much dead, so. The other Echoes made more sense due to the series they're from or other special situations like Simon/Richter specifically borrowing from each other).

I get what you're saying, but you're oversimplifying the support too.

I understand loud and clear they are different characters with different personalities and different moveset potential. That isn’t the point.

The point is that at the end of the tunnel. It is an undeniable fact that both are just members of the race known as Toad.
You and I made the exact same point with Pig Ganon and ZSS, they are wanted exclusively for moveset. But if Ganondorf didn’t get in for whatever reason. Do you think Pig Ganon and Ganondorf would be seen as entirely different options? No, they’d be seen as 2 different takes on the same idea for one of gamings best in class. Its the same thing here. Toad and Captain Toad are undeniably different, with being actual different characters and moveset. But it is still just the Toad species. And that is by far what most people care about.

Also, no. Sakurai definitely stretches the alts in terms of moveset. Enderman can do almost nothing that his Smash moveset allows him to.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

He doesn't group together characters as alts unless they actually can share the same abilities, and well... these two just plain don't.

Don't they? As far as I know the only differences in abilities is that Toad can jump while Captain Toad can't, and Captain Toad can hit you with his backpack while Toad doesn't have one. Though...I suppose Toad's ability to use Power Ups is only assumed since he's never been playable in a game in which they exist.

Pikmin and Alph is an alt cause he literally has no unique abilities from Olimar as is. He was an easy one with a slight adjustment of the model, and since the Pikmin are a core part, there's even less reason for a split right now(especially as it was only during Smash 4 Pikmin had enough relevance to justify an echo/clone. Ultimate... it was pretty much dead, so. The other Echoes made more sense due to the series they're from or other special situations like Simon/Richter specifically borrowing from each other).

Considering that Echo Fighters basically are alternate costumes for the most part I'm gonna have to disagree here. The alternate costume status here more likely has something to do with Olimar and Alph's mannerisms being similar enough, or just there not being enough time to animate the new flavor animations.

 

[Cosmic77]

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Toad and Waluigi. Don't see an issue with the former regardless of which one we're discussing. I just feel like they're often pushed because they're the next logical choices if we go down the ladder of importance.

Personally, I don't really mind if Sakurai avoids the obvious if there's someone else from Super Mario who he thinks would offer a more unique or unusual moveset. If he had a concept for Pauline that takes inspiration from some of Odyssey's gameplay, I'd be fine with that instead of Toad. If he thinks King Boo has a lot of material from Luigi's Mansion that could be used in Smash, then I'd like to see what he could do. Neither of those characters are comparable to Toad or Waluigi, but I can also understand why he'd want to choose characters like those before the more prominent ones.

 

[Knight Dude]

I'm sure Touhou has a chance and all, but aren't just as many people who shot down guys like Crash and Dante even if they have a game recently on Nintendo systems? I don't see this as anything particularly different.

I don't see their chances as anything better or worse than before.

Still, while not my exact choice, it'd be interesting to see an indie series get the full playable treatment if at all possible.

 

[Mamboo07]

This is becoming the Toad Discussion thread.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Also, no. Sakurai definitely stretches the alts in terms of moveset. Enderman can do almost nothing that his Smash moveset allows him to.

Not the best example. Steve has a bunch of alternate costumes in the source material, and while I'm not sure that Zombie or Enderman are one of them, it's not that big of a stretch to treat them like one. I mean, if they wanted, they could make Mario, Banjo & Kazooie, Master Chief, and even Toad alternate costumes of Steve without deviating from the source material at all.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Not the best example. Steve has a bunch of alternate costumes in the source material, and while I'm not sure that Zombie or Enderman are one of them, it's not that big of a stretch to treat them like one. I mean, if they wanted, they could make Mario, Banjo & Kazooie, Master Chief, and even Toad alternate costumes of Steve without deviating from the source material at all.

Yes, but it is given the name “Enderman” its arm proportions are changed to look like an actual Enderman. It is by all means, made to be an actual Enderman rather than just a Skin.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yes, but it is given the name “Enderman” its arm proportions are changed to look like an actual Enderman. It is by all means, made to be an actual Enderman rather than just a Skin.

Alex's arms are also slightly thinner, which isn't the case in Minecraft, so I don't think that's the case either.

 

[Idon]

Alex's arms are also slightly thinner, which isn't the case in Minecraft, so I don't think that's the case either.

It... isn't?

I play Minecraft a lot and Alex skins's arms are definitely 1 pixel shorter from my experience.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Toad's honestly just a super weird character. He's a named but not really character that appears exclusively in the party spinoffs and is visually indistinguishable from generic members of his species that have the same cap color. Then there's also now a named character-Captain Toad-that looks exactly like him, just with a different outfit, pretty much removing the necessity of Toad himself. I've even been told that Toad the character doesn't even exist and the U.S. just made him up.

The spinoff Toad is the same Toad who’s in Luigi’s Mansion 3 at least, if the stuff in his room is any indication. Maybe the ones in SMB2 and Wario’s Woods (and maybe Taskmaster Toad in Super Mario Maker 2) are the same too, not sure, though they seem like they would be.

I’m not sure if he’s like Yoshi in Japan or not, but there is a green Toad bot on an account of Nintendo’s (the Japan side; it was some app or website or something but I forgot what it was), and if you asked him about Kinopio (Toad’s Japanese name), he’d mention him being his friend or something, implying there is one main Toad like there is over here.

I think Kamek was in a similar situation before the newer games started making him the only Magikoopa. Apparently they’re all called Kamek in Japan, but it’s clear he’s the main one given his role.

Alex's arms are also slightly thinner, which isn't the case in Minecraft, so I don't think that's the case either.

That is the case in Minecraft though.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Alex's arms are also slightly thinner, which isn't the case in Minecraft, so I don't think that's the case either.

Apparently Alex's arms are shorter in Minecraft, though barely. Didn’t Sakurais Steve Presentation also mention Endermans arms and Legs were changed to look more like the actual mob? It seems pretty cut and dry that is 100% supposed to be an actual Enderman imo.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The spinoff Toad is the same Toad who’s in Luigi’s Mansion 3 at least...

Since there are three of them, I'd hesitate to say so.

Apparently Alex's arms are shorter in Minecraft, though barely. Didn’t Sakurais Steve Presentation also mention Endermans arms and Legs were changed to look more like the actual mob? It seems pretty cut and dry that is 100% supposed to be an actual Enderman imo.

I still disagree. The inclusion would make 0 sense if it was. It's much more likely supposed to be a skin, especially since it doesn't even make any noises like an actual Enderman would upon getting hit and K.O.'ed and stuff. Same with Zombie.

 

[Knight Dude]

Honestly, I just want a few more characters from well established franchises that really need more of their cast in the roster. I mean, we got Sephiroth as DLC, and am not gonna complain for a change. He's a wicked cool character, am even playing FF7 on Switch now because of his inclusion and am liking it a lot.

But, I just can't help but feel some characters should've made it in, as Dixie Kong, Impa, Isaac, Bandana Dee, and am not even a Sonic fan, but a second FF character, a second SF character, a second Castlevania character even, but no Tails or Knuckles? I think that's sort of wrong.

I mean, probably the biggest Mega Man shill here, So I do agree that plenty of franchises could expand their characters.

Now whether or not the characters chosen are the most "deserving" to be the firsts in the series that they are, is extremely subjective on the whole. Ken's arguably nearly as big of a "Player 2" character as Luigi, Tails and so on. And this is coming from someone who would've preferred Akuma as Ryu's Echo. And Sephiroth's a pretty iconic game villain, all things considered.

Richter's the odd one out in terms being popular in gaming as a whole. But even he at least has mechanical precedence where half of the Belmont's kit comes from him, and half from Simon.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Steve/Alex's costumes are probably best meant to reference the ability to use them as a skin, but have their proper designs because they look best that way. So imo, it's overall both.

It's not the best example cause in the end, it's a legit skin choice anyway to use Enderman. Smash isn't outright subverting what I said since the choice exists. It's more playing around the idea.

Also, Toad is more associated with power-ups than Captain Toad, though it is true he doesn't directly use them(outside of some spin-offs like Mario Party), so technically he does, but it's not as notable. Though the regular Toad recolors are meant to be basically a recolor of the main Toad in New Super Mario Bros., so it makes more sense to copy those based directly upon him than to use moves from someone who isn't very much like him beyond a slight bit of personality(Captain Toad also does get continued characterization to become braver, so he has his own story bits that isn't like Toad, who doesn't deal with a brigade either).

I get what you're saying, but they're still overall fairly different in the end. I never saw them as good plausible alts since they're barely similar overall.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Since there are three of them, I'd hesitate to say so.


I still disagree. The inclusion would make 0 sense if it was. It's much more likely supposed to be a skin, especially since it doesn't even make any noises like an actual Enderman would upon getting hit and K.O.'ed and stuff. Same with Zombie.

Aren’t they all Silent?
Enderman is specifically a weird inclusion for that purpose. Why would they call it Enderman and change its proportions to resemble a standard Enderman more if it wasn’t supposed to be an actual Enderman?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Since there are three of them, I'd hesitate to say so.

The other two are Yellow Toad and Blue Toad though (whom I guess were made their own characters too; I saw some official thing with about all of the main cast and some info about each character, and at least one of these two Toads had something about the one going on adventures with Mario); he’s the only Toad with the standard appearance, and the only one with sports stuff in his room, too, implying he’s the same Toad.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Toad always has confused a lot of people....

Source

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Steve/Alex's costumes are probably best meant to reference the ability to use them as a skin, but have their proper designs because they look best that way. So imo, it's overall both.

It's not the best example cause in the end, it's a legit skin choice anyway to use Enderman. Smash isn't outright subverting what I said since the choice exists. It's more playing around the idea.

Also, Toad is more associated with power-ups than Captain Toad, though it is true he doesn't directly use them(outside of some spin-offs like Mario Party), so technically he does, but it's not as notable. Though the regular Toad recolors are meant to be basically a recolor of the main Toad in New Super Mario Bros., so it makes more sense to copy those based directly upon him than to use moves from someone who isn't very much like him beyond a slight bit of personality(Captain Toad also does get continued characterization to become braver, so he has his own story bits that isn't like Toad, who doesn't deal with a brigade either).

I get what you're saying, but they're still overall fairly different in the end. I never saw them as good plausible alts since they're barely similar overall.

I’m assuming you meant to quote me.
I myself am not so sure about an Alt for Toad, as it could mess with proportions and look weird if there are any proper costume changes.
I suppose we’ll just have to agree to disagree in the end.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Aren’t they all Silent?

In Super Smash Bros.? Yes. But Zombies and Endermen in Minecraft are not mute.

EDIT: Steve used to have a voice as well, but they took it out because of the other skins.

Enderman is specifically a weird inclusion for that purpose. Why would they call it Enderman and change its proportions to resemble a standard Enderman more if it wasn’t supposed to be an actual Enderman?

The proportion changes were likely just a neat detail that took 2 seconds to implement. The name change is probably a thing because the avatar goes by the name of the skin (and by that I mean the character's name, not the user's display name). Proportion changes or no, it would be strange if Zombie and Enderman were both referred to as Steve or Alex.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I’m assuming you meant to quote me.
I myself am not so sure about an Alt for Toad, as it could mess with proportions and look weird if there are any proper costume changes.
I suppose we’ll just have to agree to disagree in the end.

I didn't mean to quote you. I was saying in general. Cause there was too many speaking on it, it felt better to avoid a quote.

And fair enough(as in, agree to disagree). Yeah, I could see perhaps the Captain Toad hat, but the backpack would look very awkward since it has an actual meaning to it(namely its weight). Though there is an Explorer Toad design that's similar yet distinct enough that might fit better. There's also a lot of costumes from Mario Party 2 that could work for Toad as well, though if I remember right, he's not playable in that one, so. >.<;

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

There's also a lot of costumes from Mario Party 2 that could work for Toad as well, though if I remember right, he's not playable in that one, so. >.<;

I think you do remember right, but he does still get costumes. Dunno how viable they all are (one of them removes his arms, so that one's out at least), but he has them.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I think an argument could be made that the reason why Waluigi hasn't been added until now is because neither Sakurai or Nintendo realized he was that popular until his assist trophy reveal back at E3 and when news outlets reported on his deconfirmation. It's not that crazy to think about, Nintendo didn't even know K. Rool was popular until the ballot. But hell, you could also argue that Waluigi didn't get in because other characters were higher in the picking order at the time. And before anyone brings up Plant, that was a joke character that wasn't in actual competition with any requested character.

I'm not saying Waluigi is gonna get in one of the remaining three packs, hell I'm starting to doubt his prospect atm. But after many fan favorites got in, a gap in the fandom was left wide open for other characters to fill in and Waluigi is one of those characters who filled a big portion of this gap, whether it's memes or otherwise. If Nintendo wants to make a pack that's dedicated to a heavily requested character I can see Waluigi getting picked, but that's just wishful thinking me thinks.



Now time to ramble on other characters.

Currently Rex is the most likely first party imo. A shame we won't get Fei and KOS-MOS in the same game cuz copyright and stuff.

Falcom is a three way between Adol, Estelle, and Rean. I have a hunch haha-man might take it but it's probably gonna be Adol.

I've become more optimistic on Phoenix Wright, I think it's between him and Monster Hunter right now.

If Ryu Hayabusa doesn't get in we riot. Also Koei Tecmo where's muh NG remastered trilogy?

Goku should be in but he won't be, he's too based for Smash.


Thank you for coming to my TED talk

 

[DarthEnderX]

Pig Ganon isn’t wanted because hes a wanted inclusion next to Ganondorf, hes wanted so one of gamings most iconic can be done as anything other than a semi clone.

Pig Ganon is wanted by, like, 3 people. And also is already a Boss.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Toad always has confused a lot of people....

View attachment 303036

Source

Why can't everyone figure it out that the Red Toad is the main Toad just like Green Yoshi is the main Yoshi? And even Yoshi has different color from the other Yoshi so why not give the same thing to Toad and make Captain Toad his alt costume?

 

[Cosmic77]

I think an argument could be made that the reason why Waluigi hasn't been added until now is because neither Sakurai or Nintendo realized he was that popular until his assist trophy reveal back at E3 and when news outlets reported on his deconfirmation. It's not that crazy to think about, Nintendo didn't even know K. Rool was popular until the ballot. But hell, you could also argue that Waluigi didn't get in because other characters were higher in the picking order at the time. And before anyone brings up Plant, that was a joke character that wasn't in actual competition with any requested character.

Nintendo aside, I'm certain Sakurai has been aware of Waluigi's popularity and demand for a long time now. Even when developing Smash 4, Sakurai threw in a few hints here and there (the plush, the POTD, etc.). He made a bigger deal about Waluigi's AT back then.

I couldn't give you a concrete reason as to why we still don't have Waluigi, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Sakurai to notice Chrom and Dark Samus's decent but not massive popularity and yet be completely oblivious to Waluigi's larger demand. Like I said though, I think he was aware even back in Smash 4. There's probably another reason.

 

[Wunderwaft]

Nintendo aside, I'm certain Sakurai has been aware of Waluigi's popularity and demand for a long time now. Even when developing Smash 4, Sakurai threw in a few hints here and there (the plush, the POTD, etc.). He made a bigger deal about Waluigi's AT back then.

I couldn't give you a concrete reason as to why we still don't have Waluigi, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Sakurai to notice Chrom and Dark Samus's decent but not massive popularity and yet be completely oblivious to Waluigi's larger demand. Like I said though, I think he was aware even back in Smash 4. There's probably another reason.

That's true, my guess is that Waluigi wasn't high enough in the picking order to get a playable slot by Sakurai, and without Nintendo backing or caring about Waluigi there wasn't much of a strong reason for Sakurai to add him. But again, that's just my theory and there could be another reason for why Sakurai didn't put him in, like maybe he simply didn't like the character, but with no evidence to go off of we can't be certain.

I want to say that now that Nintendo knows about Waluigi's demand things could change, but I'm not optimistic for this game. Next game though? If I was a gambler I would go all in on Waluigi.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

Had a pretty strange dream about Smash Bros.

It started out with Kazuma Kiryu fighting along side Kirby, Mario and Link in a dojo fighting against someone off screen. Then the doors open to Majima and Nishikiyama dancing like in that Yakuza 0 dancing minigame, revealing a sillouette of a person from the double sliding doors they came through and it just turns out to be an ordinary street thug from the games being announced for smash. It was meant to be a fake out to show that Kazuma Kiryu would be in Smash Bros and make people worry that the last three slots in Fighter Pass 2 would be taken up by the regular enemies in the Yakuza series.

 

[Pillow]

Had a pretty strange dream about Smash Bros.

It started out with Kazuma Kiryu fighting along side Kirby, Mario and Link in a dojo fighting against someone off screen. Then the doors open to Majima and Nishikiyama dancing like in that Yakuza 0 dancing minigame, revealing a sillouette of a person from the double sliding doors they came through and it just turns out to be an ordinary street thug from the games being announced for smash. It was meant to be a fake out to show that Kazuma Kiryu would be in Smash Bros and make people worry that the last three slots in Fighter Pass 2 would be taken up by the regular enemies in the Yakuza series.

Sounds like a nice dream

I mean, probably the biggest Mega Man shill here, So I do agree that plenty of franchises could expand their characters.

Now whether or not the characters chosen are the most "deserving" to be the firsts in the series that they are, is extremely subjective on the whole. Ken's arguably nearly as big of a "Player 2" character as Luigi, Tails and so on. And this is coming from someone who would've preferred Akuma as Ryu's Echo. And Sephiroth's a pretty iconic game villain, all things considered.

Richter's the odd one out in terms being popular in gaming as a whole. But even he at least has mechanical precedence where half of the Belmont's kit comes from him, and half from Simon.

SF #2 is Chun-Li but got beat because Ken was able to be an echo. Castlevania #2 is Alucard but again we had a similar echo situation. Sephiroth is undoubtedly the #2 from FF7 and arguably the #2 from the whole series. In your opinion is Zero the uncontested #2 newcomer from Megaman or should it be someone else?

 

[BlondeLombax]

Had a pretty strange dream about Smash Bros.

It started out with Kazuma Kiryu fighting along side Kirby, Mario and Link in a dojo fighting against someone off screen. Then the doors open to Majima and Nishikiyama dancing like in that Yakuza 0 dancing minigame, revealing a sillouette of a person from the double sliding doors they came through and it just turns out to be an ordinary street thug from the games being announced for smash. It was meant to be a fake out to show that Kazuma Kiryu would be in Smash Bros and make people worry that the last three slots in Fighter Pass 2 would be taken up by the regular enemies in the Yakuza series.

Not as strange as the dream I had about Frank Reynolds and Harry Potter joining the game.

Still, that sounds pretty wild!

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If you ask me the issue with Toad is that there's absolutely nothing distinct you can do that makes people look at the moveset and go "Yep, I'm playing as Toad alright!" Every idea I've seen for the fodder fungi always just takes random elements from a variety of Mario games, I don't care about Waluigi, but at least he's the zaniest character in the series and has the sports games be a big part of his identity. Imagine if Zelda didn't use any magic at all and just used items Link himself never used, it'd be different, but would it reaply capture Zelda herself? Now Captain Toad? That's a different story entirely as he has **** that makes him stand out from literally every other generic Toad

 

[Dinoman96]

Nintendo aside, I'm certain Sakurai has been aware of Waluigi's popularity and demand for a long time now. Even when developing Smash 4, Sakurai threw in a few hints here and there (the plush, the POTD, etc.). He made a bigger deal about Waluigi's AT back then.

I couldn't give you a concrete reason as to why we still don't have Waluigi, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for Sakurai to notice Chrom and Dark Samus's decent but not massive popularity and yet be completely oblivious to Waluigi's larger demand. Like I said though, I think he was aware even back in Smash 4. There's probably another reason.

To be fair, Chrom and Dark Samus are probably two characters that would of never been playable if they couldn't cut corners and make them echo fighters.

I think that's what's probably keeping Waluigi out. Daisy is essentially the female Waluigi, and she too could only really get into Smash on the virtue of being a glorified extra set of costumes for Peach in a seperate character slot. Waluigi obviously can't be an echo of anyone, and they probably didn't think he was worth the effort of making into a playable character with a completely unique moveset, due to his status as a character (i.e mostly just being "that guy you play as Mario spinoff games" and not much else).

 

[Diddy Kong]

To be fair, Chrom and Dark Samus are probably two characters that would of never been playable if they couldn't cut corners and make them echo fighters.

I think that's what's probably keeping Waluigi out. Daisy is essentially the female Waluigi, and she too could only really get into Smash on the virtue of being a glorified extra set of costumes for Peach in a seperate character slot. Waluigi obviously can't be an echo of anyone, and they probably didn't think he was worth the effort of making into a playable character with a completely unique moveset, due to his status as a character (i.e mostly just being "that guy you play as Mario spinoff games" and not much else).

I mean you could create Waluigi with assets of the current cast. I would probably use assets of Wario first, but taller and lighter. Give him the F Smash of Peach. And a couple of Luigi's moves as the dash attack, Down B, F Smash, and I don't know what else. Waluigi never should be a fully unique character honestly.

And not that that's bad. I think there's potential of a lot of cool characters if they could be build up with assets from the current cast. I mean, call me weird but I'd be able to create a "economy version" of Bandana Dee by using assets of Kirby and Byleth for example. A Echo version of Impa being a Sheik Echo but have Shadow Sneak and a uncharged version of Water Shuriken also is acceptable, at this point. Dixie as a Ken / Isabelle type character with Peach's float, DK's Up B and Diddy's everything else? Fine. Well, Impa and Dixie I'd only accept like this because of how badly I want them.

 

[DX_E]

It's Lara Croft's birthday today

So I'm here just to say Lara would be an amazing choice for Smash! Peace!

 

[Pillow]

I mean you could create Waluigi with assets of the current cast. I would probably use assets of Wario first, but taller and lighter. Give him the F Smash of Peach. And a couple of Luigi's moves as the dash attack, Down B, F Smash, and I don't know what else. Waluigi never should be a fully unique character honestly.

And not that that's bad. I think there's potential of a lot of cool characters if they could be build up with assets from the current cast. I mean, call me weird but I'd be able to create a "economy version" of Bandana Dee by using assets of Kirby and Byleth for example. A Echo version of Impa being a Sheik Echo but have Shadow Sneak and a uncharged version of Water Shuriken also is acceptable, at this point. Dixie as a Ken / Isabelle type character with Peach's float, DK's Up B and Diddy's everything else? Fine. Well, Impa and Dixie I'd only accept like this because of how badly I want them.

while some people would just be happy to see their wanted characters become playable, such a Frankenstein character would hurt the integrity of the game. The characters still have to be fun to play. Echoes work because they take an existing cohesive move set and tweak it a little or sometimes not at all. Combining random moves into a functioning move set would take far more effort than it is worth.

though if it was just changing one move, like chrom, then that’s fine. They would just be echoes then, and for Dixie and Impa specifically that would work (I’m still surprised Dixie wasn’t a Diddy echo in the base game already)

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Brawl semi-clones were pretty Frankensteined and that was all fun and games, so I doubt that a Luigi-based Waluigi would break the integrity of the game.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Toad always has confused a lot of people....

Source

This is the perfect time to post this video:

About the Toad moveset argument: I don't buy it. This whole "things only that character can do" sounds bogus when we have characters whose movesets were made almost entirely from scratch (the Star Fox crew and Captain Falcon) as well as characters that don't use stuff only they can do (Zelda, Ness and Lucas borrowing their specials from other characters, Isabelle being an NPC in the games she appears in, Shulk referencing Xenoblade's Auras rather than his own Xenoblade moveset, and so on).

Also, being part of Peach's moveset isn't that good of a reason when we have Chrom.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Brawl semi-clones were pretty Frankensteined and that was all fun and games, so I doubt that a Luigi-based Waluigi would break the integrity of the game.

But isn't Waluigi already a sort of Frankenstein? I mean, he's literally the Wario to Luigi.