Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Garteam]

Touhou kind of reminds me of pre-David Productions JoJo. It's massive in Japan and has had a significant impact on Internet culture, but a lot of people have not heard of the series and couldn't explain where the jokes they are referencing emerged from.

That being said, I feel kinda mixed on Reimu's chances. I do think she's still a viable option due to Touhou's influence on both Indie games and Japanese game development as a whole. However, the reality is she would also be the most Japan-centric third party ever added to Smash, something that might scare off Sakurai due to his more cosmopolitan attitude to character additions nowadays. Like a lot of characters who have a lot going for them but a major roadblock in terms of precedent, I kinda put her in the "Could happen, wouldn't bet on it" category.

Also, I don't think Nintendo and ZUN's clashing philosophies on doujin are going to impact Reimu's chances. Yeah, Nintendo's historically been seen as a hindrance to fan projects (IIRC, Nintendo had a Pokemon doujin artist publicly arrested in the 1990s for the sole purpose of making an example out of them), but they also didn't bat an eye at Sega and Capcom supporting and sometimes outright adopting Sonic and Mega Man fan games. It's unlikely Sakurai will give Touhou's canon doujin entries a shout-out, but that won't stop the character from happening altogether.

 

[Pillow]

However, the reality is she would also be the most Japan-centric third party ever added to Smash, something that might scare off Sakurai due to his more cosmopolitan attitude to character additions nowadays.

That's why she will be revealed at E3 alongside Master Chief!

 

[SKX31]

Honestly, i find it FAR more interesting when people don't want their characters in Smash, if that has ever happened, but it would be interesting if someone was asked that question and went "HELL NO, I DON'T WANT MY CHARACTERS IN THAT GODDAMN GAME".

TBH I could see that happening. Not spoken out loud - but in a "read between the lines" way - when a publisher / developer gets something like this fine trade offer from Nintendo:

Spoiler

(The image is from Civilization V, and the AI in the Civ games can be absolutely dumb. And yes, Elizabeth here wants one of the player's cities as part of the package. Couple that with her being one of the English speaking leaders, and it's no surprise that her "WOULD YOU BE INTERESTED IN A TRADE AGREEMENT WITH ENGLAND?" became a meme.)

Also, I don't think Nintendo and ZUN's clashing philosophies on doujin are going to impact Reimu's chances. Yeah, Nintendo's historically been seen as a hindrance to fan projects (IIRC, Nintendo had a Pokemon doujin artist publicly arrested in the 1990s for the sole purpose of making an example out of them), but they also didn't bat an eye at Sega and Capcom supporting and sometimes outright adopting Sonic and Mega Man fan games.

While I don't doubt that this could've happened since Nintendo's the kind of company that gets active on legal stuff that interests them and that only (such as any unofficially produced games / consoles), got a link to that? It still sounds kinda weird to have someone publicly arrested just for that reason.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Y'all wanna know the last time you guys tried to make something out of Smash-related topics in developer interviews?

Bad example. The prediction that No More Heroes was getting something was 100% correct.

 

[ahemtoday]

Touhou kind of reminds me of pre-David Productions JoJo. It's massive in Japan and has had a significant impact on Internet culture, but a lot of people have not heard of the series and couldn't explain where the jokes they are referencing emerged from.

So what you're saying is, in order to get Reimu in Smash, David Productions just needs to make a Touhou anime.

...Y'know, I'd be okay with that. But I'm not sure what that would even be like. Touhou game plots don't seem like they'd lend themselves well to this sort of thing...

 

[PLATINUM7]

So basically, as far as I know:

• The Touhou Project is huge in Japan.
  • It also has a dedicated community elsewhere.
• Everyone else might recognize the mess of bullets all over the screen as one of those games, but know literally nothing about the actual series.
• The series has yet to have a single official localization.
• Indie series have yet to get an actual character, with the biggest of them only getting Mii Costumes.

If the Tower of Druaga Mii Costume is any indication, it could get a Mii Costume, but that's all it could get at present.

Why'd you bring up Gil's Mii costume? I'm not seeing much correlation between Tower of Drauga and Touhou.

 

[SharkLord]

Bad example. The prediction that No More Heroes was getting something was 100% correct.

Yeah, it was more of a vague "Hey, wait a minute..." sort of thing; Suda had a history of openly supporting Travis in Smash, so seeing him act out-of-character made people think that something was up. There was a lot of people going "Travis is in Smash, but we don't know how." Pretty sure I was one of 'em (Hey, it was a while ago. I don't remember this stuff).

Why'd you bring up Gil's Mii costume? I'm not seeing much correlation between Tower of Drauga and Touhou.

I think it's because Tower of Druaga is considered one of the most important games of all time in Japan, but doesn't quite enjoy that level of popularity elsewhere. Parallels can be found with Touhou, which is largely Japan-centric with it's popularity.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

So what you're saying is, in order to get Reimu in Smash, David Productions just needs to make a Touhou anime.

...Y'know, I'd be okay with that. But I'm not sure what that would even be like. Touhou game plots don't seem like they'd lend themselves well to this sort of thing...

IIRC the plots of most games are:

• Bad thing happen.
• Character goes to investigate.
• Many pointless yet entertaining fights are had.
  • Some of them actually do have something to do with the overall plot.
• Character defeat bad guy.
• The end.

Throw in some more plot relevant battles and places for the characters to traverse and you've probably got a good formula there.

Why'd you bring up Gil's Mii costume? I'm not seeing much correlation between Tower of Drauga and Touhou.

There's no correlation other than the fact that they're both very Japanese centric in appeal. I don't think many people elsewhere even know what Tower of Drauga even is beyond "that one random costume in Super Smash Bros.". The point was that series like that could get Mii Costumes.

 

[PLATINUM7]

IIRC the plots of most games are:

• Bad thing happen.
• Character goes to investigate.
• Many pointless yet entertaining fights are had.
  • Some of them actually do have something to do with the overall plot.
• Character defeat bad guy.
• The end.

Throw in some more plot relevant battles and places for the characters to traverse and you've probably got a good formula there.


There's no correlation other than the fact that they're both very Japanese centric in appeal. I don't think many people elsewhere even know what Tower of Drauga even is beyond "that one random costume in Super Smash Bros.". The point was that series like that could get Mii Costumes.

Oh okay.

Maybe if people knew what it was they'd stop putting it in every Namco Museum because it's not very good.

 

[SharkLord]

IIRC the plots of most games are:

• Bad thing happen.
• Character goes to investigate.
• Many pointless yet entertaining fights are had.
  • Some of them actually do have something to do with the overall plot.
• Character defeat bad guy.
• The end.

Throw in some more plot relevant battles and places for the characters to traverse and you've probably got a good formula there.

Add the scene where the former antagonists crash at Reimu's shrine for some tea after their defeat, and that's pretty accurate. Occasionally there's some ties between the games, like the arc from games 10-13, but they're mostly standalone. What with all the wacky powersets, you could probably make it into all-girls JoJo without much trouble.

Can't wait for people to make "One meme from every Touhou episode"

 

[ahemtoday]

Yeah, I guess you could just adapt one game per season if you take some liberties. Instead of just your player character and maybe a partner, you could interpret it that all the playable characters investigate the incident together for a more traditional "anime posse" setup. And then they go and fight people who gradually get more and more actually connected to the thing they're supposed to doing, and then there's a big fight at the end, and then they have tea at the shrine. You could probably fill at least 13 episodes with that.

 

[Pillow]

Add the scene where the former antagonists crash at Reimu's shrine for some tea after their defeat, and that's pretty accurate. Occasionally there's some ties between the games, like the arc from games 10-13, but they're mostly standalone. What with all the wacky powersets, you could probably make it into all-girls JoJo without much trouble.

Can't wait for people to make "One meme from every Touhou episode"

"Kono Cirno Da!"

Tohou anime memes would be far too powerful for this world. We're not ready.

 

[PeridotGX]

if we're getting a Pokemon, I predict we'll get a guess who announced on Pokemon Day, which will last until about March, where we'll get the Sakurai presents.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I think it's because Tower of Druaga is considered one of the most important games of all time in Japan...

Well geez I didn't know it was that popular.

Add the scene where the former antagonists crash at Reimu's shrine for some tea after their defeat, and that's pretty accurate. Occasionally there's some ties between the games, like the arc from games 10-13, but they're mostly standalone. What with all the wacky powersets, you could probably make it into all-girls JoJo without much trouble.

Can't wait for people to make "One meme from every Touhou episode"

I can't wait to watch them fight the girl in a bucket. lol

Yeah, I guess you could just adapt one game per season if you take some liberties. Instead of just your player character and maybe a partner, you could interpret it that all the playable characters investigate the incident together for a more traditional "anime posse" setup. And then they go and fight people who gradually get more and more actually connected to the thing they're supposed to doing, and then there's a big fight at the end, and then they have tea at the shrine. You could probably fill at least 13 episodes with that.

As long as there's still a scene where the protagonists fight Marisa because she thinks all of the demons are going to eat people and blow up I'll be all for it.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Did anything come from that Fortnite owners “no comment” statement?
I heard somewhere it was a confirmed troll.

 

[3BitSaurus]

So what you're saying is, in order to get Reimu in Smash, David Productions just needs to make a Touhou anime.

...Y'know, I'd be okay with that. But I'm not sure what that would even be like. Touhou game plots don't seem like they'd lend themselves well to this sort of thing...

I mean, I admittedly don't know too much about Touhou, but if we're asking David to do it, I'm sure they can manage considering some of the absolutely bat**** powers I've seen from Touhou characters.

I could definitely see "it just works" being a shared meme between the Touhou and JoJo fandoms.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Honestly, I just want a few more characters from well established franchises that really need more of their cast in the roster. I mean, we got Sephiroth as DLC, and am not gonna complain for a change. He's a wicked cool character, am even playing FF7 on Switch now because of his inclusion and am liking it a lot.

But, I just can't help but feel some characters should've made it in, as Dixie Kong, Impa, Isaac, Bandana Dee, and am not even a Sonic fan, but a second FF character, a second SF character, a second Castlevania character even, but no Tails or Knuckles? I think that's sort of wrong.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Did anything come from that Fortnite owners “no comment” statement?
I heard somewhere it was a confirmed troll.

Where’d you hear that?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Honestly, I just want a few more characters from well established franchises that really need more of their cast in the roster. I mean, we got Sephiroth as DLC, and am not gonna complain for a change. He's a wicked cool character, am even playing FF7 on Switch now because of his inclusion and am liking it a lot.

But, I just can't help but feel some characters should've made it in, as Dixie Kong, Impa, Isaac, Bandana Dee, and am not even a Sonic fan, but a second FF character, a second SF character, a second Castlevania character even, but no Tails or Knuckles? I think that's sort of wrong.

Or Lara Croft, and Chun-Li (If she doesn't make it).

 

[Will]

Bad example. The prediction that No More Heroes was getting something was 100% correct.

We always gotta have misunderstandings of what we mean, don't we?

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Where’d you hear that?

Someone on youtube said “I wish people would stop talking about Fortnite in Smash, that statement is confirmed troll.”
Obviously I asked for links, but didn’t get a response.
So I figured I should ask here to see if I missed it or if that dude is pulling something from nowhere.

 

[Pillow]

Honestly, I just want a few more characters from well established franchises that really need more of their cast in the roster. I mean, we got Sephiroth as DLC, and am not gonna complain for a change. He's a wicked cool character, am even playing FF7 on Switch now because of his inclusion and am liking it a lot.

But, I just can't help but feel some characters should've made it in, as Dixie Kong, Impa, Isaac, Bandana Dee, and am not even a Sonic fan, but a second FF character, a second SF character, a second Castlevania character even, but no Tails or Knuckles? I think that's sort of wrong.

There's definitely a few series that could use one or two more characters that would be nice to see. I'd really like to see Zero (MMZ), Raiden (MGS), Chun-Li and Alucard personally. But at the end of the day, there's only room for so many characters, and I'm not sure I'd rather see secondary characters from these series appear over main characters representing new franchises.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Someone on youtube said “I wish people would stop talking about Fortnite in Smash, that statement is confirmed troll.”
Obviously I asked for links, but didn’t get a response.
So I figured I should ask here to see if I missed it or if that dude is pulling something from nowhere.

If it's a Youtube comment, I suggest ignoring it 99% of the time, especially if they didn't give you a response.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

If it's a Youtube comment, I suggest ignoring it 99% of the time, especially if they didn't give you a response.

Normally I would, but I’d like to get Fortnite talk behind me as soon as possible, for obvious reasons.

 

[Phoenix Douchebag]

Touhou kind of reminds me of pre-David Productions JoJo. It's massive in Japan and has had a significant impact on Internet culture, but a lot of people have not heard of the series and couldn't explain where the jokes they are referencing emerged from.

That being said, I feel kinda mixed on Reimu's chances. I do think she's still a viable option due to Touhou's influence on both Indie games and Japanese game development as a whole. However, the reality is she would also be the most Japan-centric third party ever added to Smash, something that might scare off Sakurai due to his more cosmopolitan attitude to character additions nowadays. Like a lot of characters who have a lot going for them but a major roadblock in terms of precedent, I kinda put her in the "Could happen, wouldn't bet on it" category.

Also, I don't think Nintendo and ZUN's clashing philosophies on doujin are going to impact Reimu's chances. Yeah, Nintendo's historically been seen as a hindrance to fan projects (IIRC, Nintendo had a Pokemon doujin artist publicly arrested in the 1990s for the sole purpose of making an example out of them), but they also didn't bat an eye at Sega and Capcom supporting and sometimes outright adopting Sonic and Mega Man fan games. It's unlikely Sakurai will give Touhou's canon doujin entries a shout-out, but that won't stop the character from happening altogether.

....what?


I need to hear the source for that mate.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Honestly, if any Indie Dev would refuse to work with Nintendo for Smash it’s ZUN, due to how heavily Nintendo and ZUN Clash. Yeah, I sincerely think that ZUN is why Reimu will never happen.

 

[SharkLord]

Honestly, if any Indie Dev would refuse to work with Nintendo for Smash it’s ZUN, due to how heavily Nintendo and ZUN Clash. Yeah, I sincerely think that ZUN is why Reimu will never happen.

I mean

ZUN: In addition, I would like characters from Touhou to appear in other games so Touhou can become more recognized. Naturally, I want them to appear in Smash Bros. (laughs) But that's something that I can't make happen by just thinking about it.

Via: @ReimuForSmash pic.twitter.com/u2l4uBKQAn

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) October 13, 2019

This was brought up just a page ago as to where the sudden surge of Reimu support came from. A lot of people thought the same, but ZUN stated that he's open to Touhou characters in Smash, which puts that issue to rest. Reimu does have some things going against her, but ZUN is not one of them.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Honestly, if any Indie Dev would refuse to work with Nintendo for Smash it’s ZUN, due to how heavily Nintendo and ZUN Clash. Yeah, I sincerely think that ZUN is why Reimu will never happen.

ZUN? The same ZUN that said they wanted Reimu in Smash? I’m not sure I follow.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Yeah, but I feel Nintendo would probably drop the deal via the Fan Game Policy, as they would probably get into a Debate over their morals. Then again, it would be kinda surprising if it even got that far, considering how Nintendo operates lol.

 

[SharkLord]

Yeah, but I feel Nintendo would probably drop the deal via the Fan Game Policy, as they would probably get into a Debate over their morals. Then again, it would be kinda surprising if it even got that far, considering how Nintendo operates lol.

I've said this before, but Nintendo would only care if its fangames using their IPs. Touhou isn't their IP, so they wouldn't bat an eye.

 

[Pillow]

Yeah, but I feel Nintendo would probably drop the deal via the Fan Game Policy, as they would probably get into a Debate over their morals. Then again, it would be kinda surprising if it even got that far, considering how Nintendo operates lol.

This is some deep conjecture my dude.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Yeah, but I feel Nintendo would probably drop the deal via the Fan Game Policy, as they would probably get into a Debate over their morals. Then again, it would be kinda surprising if it even got that far, considering how Nintendo operates lol.

What does Smash have to do with Fan Games? If we can get Touhou games on Switch without them having a fight over fan games, I think they’ll be fine with Smash lmao.

Edit: I got beaten to it twice this time haha.

 

[StrangeKitten]

So, I know I'm a day late to the Eevee conversation, and haven't finished going back and reading through it. But, I've had this idea for Eevee for a while. It's dumb and probably won't be too well-liked here, but I thought I'd run it by y'all anyway:

Have Eevee work similarly to Shulk. I know that sounds odd, and they'd be drastically different characters. I don't mean "give Eevee a sword" or anything, but what I mean is, Eeveelutions acting like Monado Arts. You press B, a similar wheel comes up, and choose your Eeveelution that way. I even have a way to correlate them to Arts: Jolteon is like Speed, Espeon is like Jump, Umbreon is like Shield, Leafeon is like Smash, Sylveon is like Buster. I know I'm leaving some Eeveelutions out, but that's because there are more Eeveelutions than Arts that Shulk uses in Smash. I went with this selection because it gives at least one per set of Eeveelutions, in case you're wondering where ya boi Vaporeon is at. I have also toyed with the idea of having more than five - the issue being, how do you add more than 1? I think you'd run out of reasonable angles.

My ideas for the remaining three are: Vaporeon: Stats and Baton Pass. It's something the Eeveelutions used a lot in early gens. If you get off an Acid Armor and BP, Eevee, who is normally very lightweight, takes a lot less knockback, acting more like a low heavyweight (but not as crazy as Shield Shulk/Umbreon, to maintain their value. Thinking of something roughly equivalent to weighing 104). Maybe also Haze, which could eliminate buffs if your opponent has them (rip Acceleratle, Revenge, even G&W Bucket, etc) and maybe slows the opponent slightly, for a time, if they don't.

Flareon: I'm honestly not sure. Thinking maybe he'd function like a bait-and-punish, along the lines of superheavies. Maybe give him a strong counter, and a command grab that kills early. And have him be the only one who has those.

Glaceon: Was thinking ledgetrapping. Ice Shard or Icicle Spear could be very strong projectiles in a similar vein to Ptooie and Gordos. Blizzard could work similarly to PK Freeze.

As for how Eevee would play, I see it playing similarly to Squirtle. Small and fast, one of the lightest characters in the game, loads of combos but lacking KO power. So, you really need to evolve in order to KO. The evolutions could work well enough if you were stuck with the one you chose for the rest of your stock, but would probably be even better as temporary. I imagine them being notably weaker than the boosts Shulk gets from Arts, but sticking around 3x as long, so that you get the experience of playing as that character for more time. Maybe as an added weakness, if you select one, there's no way to stop using it until the time is up. That way if you choose, say, Espeon, and it's working out poorly... Tough luck for a good while. I say this because Eevee done this way seems kinda OP even with the evolutions not being anywhere near as strong as Arts. I understand temporary evolutions goes against canon, but the Pokemon characters are already full of moves that don't work at all like they do in canon.

All this makes me realize why Eevee hasn't been added. It sounds like a nightmare, and they'd be making nine characters for just one slot. Anything less than all eight of the Eeveelutions, and you're leaving out somebody's favorite. I think Eevee could work well through this method, but boy, would it be a doozy of a workload when they could just add Gengar or something.

 

[PeridotGX]

Yeah, but I feel Nintendo would probably drop the deal via the Fan Game Policy, as they would probably get into a Debate over their morals. Then again, it would be kinda surprising if it even got that far, considering how Nintendo operates lol.

Minecraft has a massive modding scene, with some content making the leap to official (pistons and horses). If they're fine with that, Touhou's laxness on fan games won't be an issue.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Minecraft has a massive modding scene, with some content making the leap to official (pistons and horses). If they're fine with that, Touhou's laxness on fan games won't be an issue.

Don’t forget Mojang hiring people who made Minecraft mods. Seriously, Microsoft and Sega are quite impressive with how well they treat modders, at least on the surface.

 

[Mamboo07]

Honestly, I just want a few more characters from well established franchises that really need more of their cast in the roster. I mean, we got Sephiroth as DLC, and am not gonna complain for a change. He's a wicked cool character, am even playing FF7 on Switch now because of his inclusion and am liking it a lot.

But, I just can't help but feel some characters should've made it in, as Dixie Kong, Impa, Isaac, Bandana Dee, and am not even a Sonic fan, but a second FF character, a second SF character, a second Castlevania character even, but no Tails or Knuckles? I think that's sort of wrong.

Same, Bandana Dee should've been in Smash 4 as a fighter, bit of a shame.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Honestly, I just want a few more characters from well established franchises that really need more of their cast in the roster. I mean, we got Sephiroth as DLC, and am not gonna complain for a change. He's a wicked cool character, am even playing FF7 on Switch now because of his inclusion and am liking it a lot.

But, I just can't help but feel some characters should've made it in, as Dixie Kong, Impa, Isaac, Bandana Dee, and am not even a Sonic fan, but a second FF character, a second SF character, a second Castlevania character even, but no Tails or Knuckles? I think that's sort of wrong.

I’m still holding out hope for Elma to this day

 

[Otoad64]

Honestly, I just want a few more characters from well established franchises that really need more of their cast in the roster. I mean, we got Sephiroth as DLC, and am not gonna complain for a change. He's a wicked cool character, am even playing FF7 on Switch now because of his inclusion and am liking it a lot.

But, I just can't help but feel some characters should've made it in, as Dixie Kong, Impa, Isaac, Bandana Dee, and am not even a Sonic fan, but a second FF character, a second SF character, a second Castlevania character even, but no Tails or Knuckles? I think that's sort of wrong.

honestly I still don't understand why Toad isn't in smash yet

 

[JOJONumber691]

I’m talking about how I doubt Nintendo would contact ZUN for Smash lol.

 

[Dr. Yatagarasu]

I’m talking about how I doubt Nintendo would contact ZUN for Smash lol.

This is literally the same thing as saying "I don't think Reimu is likely" which is fine, plenty against her, but

Yeah, but I feel Nintendo would probably drop the deal via the Fan Game Policy, as they would probably get into a Debate over their morals. Then again, it would be kinda surprising if it even got that far, considering how Nintendo operates lol.

you said this.
Which as stated before is a non-issue