Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[N3ON]

Today in 2013, "Pokémon X / Y" will be released !! Mega sinker was introduced for the first time. In Smash Bros., the appearance of Greninja is big. Guest Yveltal can be seen at the final point of the Prism Tower stage. #SmashBrosSP

2013年のきょう､『ポケットモンスター X･Y』(Pokémon X/Y)発売!!
メガシンカがはじめて導入されました｡
スマブラにおいては､ゲッコウガの登場が大きいですね｡
ゲストのイベルタルは､プリズムタワーステージの最終地点で見ることができます｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/FBu73sSt3f

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) October 12, 2021

I keep staring at it, but I don't think Sora is in this picture. Weird. I thought that was illegal.

I think Metroid Dread really makes a STRONG case for a serious Samus rework next game (yknow, whenever that is). It's probably the best she's ever felt to control and so much of it would translate perfectly into Smash. Even just giving Samus some Mega Man esque Blaster shenanigans, reworking Missiles etc would go a long way. Those parry attacks are must-haves too.

Imo Samus has long felt the most antiquated of the original 12 compared to what their moveset could be.

Well hopefully, Dread gets good enough sales to encourage a change to Samus' Dread suit, much like Mario and Odyssey, or Link and Breath of the Wild. But I also wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo got cheap and the Other M model was kept and slightly modified.

Man, it feels weird to talk so early about Smash 6 when it won't be announced for a while and plenty of other games, like Breath of the Wild 2, Bayonetta 3, possibly Metroid Prime 4 and other unannounced titles will be out by then to include in speculation when it finally is.

I think Samus' suit would already be different if the Samus Returns remake had been a bit earlier.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Super Smash Bros. (1999):

Super Smash Bros. Melee (2001):

Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008):()

Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo 3DS and Wii U (2014):()

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (2018):/

All the veterans over the years in Smash games. Ultimate easily hands downs has the best newcomers. K. Rool, Ridley, Banjo, Sephiroth, AND SORA? How does Brawl even compare?

 

[Momotsuki]

I keep staring at it, but I don't think Sora is in this picture. Weird. I thought that was illegal.

Eh? The stage clearly takes place outside. Just look at the background...

Super Smash Bros. (1999):

Super Smash Bros. Melee (2001):

Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008):()

Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo 3DS and Wii U (2014):()

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (2018):/

All the veterans over the years in Smash games. Ultimate easily hands downs has the best newcomers. K. Rool, Ridley, Banjo, Sephiroth, AND SORA? How does Brawl even compare?

To play devil's advocate - while I agree Ultimate has the best newcomers - Brawl and to a lesser extent Smash 4 filled extremely glaring holes in the cast - Wario comes to mind, and lowered the bar for who could be in Smash, in such a manner we tend to take for granted nowadays. Both games were responsible for paving Ultimate's stomping ground.
DAMMIT sorry for the double post.

 

[N3ON]

All the veterans over the years in Smash games. Ultimate easily hands downs has the best newcomers. K. Rool, Ridley, Banjo, Sephiroth, AND SORA? How does Brawl even compare?

It's funny because during the Brawl era there were characters more requested than most of those at the time, and we wound up getting a lot of them.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I think one of the things that’s letting me get beyond some of the melancholy feelings about Ultimate’s end is the excitement of imagining how long time characters might get redesigned in a new Smash. Samus and DK are obvious ones but even Mario could be someone with plenty of interesting directions to go in if they wipe the slate clean.

 

[Momotsuki]

We say Ultimate has "ended" but has it? The way I see it, the 18th is merely a new Day 1. Everyone is here; Let the true battle begin.

 

[BlondeLombax]

We say Ultimate has "ended" but has it? The way I see it, the 18th is just Day One 2. Let the true battle begin.

Lady...

It's so sad how right you are for the most part.

 

[Theguy123]

Speaking off sora they had the audacity to play such a fantastic theme song during sora&/ cgi reveal and then not give it us in smash. Don’t ya just hate it when a fantastic song is played during a trailer and isn’t included during the final game.

Pain!!!!!!

 

[DarthEnderX]

I keep staring at it, but I don't think Sora is in this picture. Weird. I thought that was illegal.

Well, it's an anniversary post. Not a PotD post. So it's fine.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

We say Ultimate has "ended" but has it? The way I see it, the 18th is merely a new Day 1. Everyone is here; Let the true battle begin.

I'm just getting into the game for Sora, so I certainly hope it doesn't die out lmao

Speaking off sora they had the audacity to play such a fantastic theme song during sora&/ cgi reveal and then not give it us in smash. Don’t ya just hate it when a fantastic song is played during a trailer and isn’t included during the final game.

Pain!!!!!!

As a Joker fan, I've lived for the past 2 years without Life Will Change, so it happens. You learn to live with it.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

But guys we still have all the other Challenger Packs

 

[Dan Quixote]

Btw we all agree that regardless of what happens with Smash in the future, we riot on the streets if they still keep Samus' Other M design right?

I'll do ya one better: Smash 6 uses her Metroid Prime 4 design!

 

[Momotsuki]

But guys we still have all the other Challenger Packs

Hold my modded Switch and highly rudimentary Rust knowledge.

 

[XorahnGaia]

One week since Sora's reveal. How y'all still think and feel about this?

I'm very satisfied with Sora as the final character.
I like Kingdom Hearts a lot, maybe not enough to follow Union X story or whatever, but KH I and II are special games to me and I Sora was one my most wanted at the beginning how Ultimate speculation.
However, I did gradually lost hope in him when all the rumors that Disney shot down the idea got around (like initially there were even rumors that Nintendo didn't even try to approach them for Sora) so I focused on other characters from 2019 onward.

I honestly don't know how to feel about the fact that he was technically leaked before the reveal. Yeah sure no one believed it, but Sora as the final fighter was a thought that didn't really cross my mind until the leak was found.
I didn't fully believe it myself though, and I was ready for them to reveal Jonesy or Cinderace while hoping for Phoenix Wright as the final fighter.

But then... it happened. And I had the biggest smile on my face during the whole Sakurai presentation. The care put into the costumes, the stage being two of the most iconic location of the franchise, the freaking final handshake between Sora and Mario... it was soo good. Definitely, one of the best Sakurai presents and Challenger pack.
My only real gripe with the whole pack is the fact that is down B is a counter (I would have preferred the Keyblade Raid to be integrated into his moveset like his SSF2 incarnation, but eh I guess it still stings less than Joker since at the very list you can argue that parrying is an integral part of KH combat) and the fact that the music is only from KH1, and even then it's still missing some iconic tracks like Forze del Male.

Still, it's hard to complain too much. Sora he's pretty much the perfect final character for Ultimate, the perfect blend of a fan-favorite and gaming icon.
I'm so glad that after two years of negativity, controversies, and doomposting Ultimate ended on a high note

 

[Wunderwaft]

Btw we all agree that regardless of what happens with Smash in the future, we riot on the streets if they still keep Samus' Other M design right?

If she still keeps the Other M design in the next game then whoever is directing the next game is a fool smh

Besides the suit I would like to see the uppercut incorporated in the moveset of Samus, I can see it working as an up-tilt/up-smash that has a unique counter/stagger property.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Spoiler

Super Mario Bros.:
Donkey Kong:
The Legend of Zelda:
Metroid:
Yoshi:
Kirby:
StarFox:
Pokemon:()
EarthBound:
F-Zero:
Ice Climber:
Fire Emblem:
Game & Watch:
Kid Icarus:
WarioWare:
Metal Gear Solid:
Sonic the Hedgehog:
Pikmin:
R.O.B.:
Animal Crossing:
Mega Man:
Wii Fit:
Punch-Out!!:
Mii:)
Pac-Man:
Xenoblade:/
Duck Hunt:
Street Fighter:
Final Fantasy VII:
Bayonetta:
Splatoon:
Castlevania:
Persona 5:
Dragon Quest XI:
Banjo-Kazooie:
Fatal Fury:
ARMS:
Minecraft:
Tekken:
Kingdom Hearts:

40 franchises that made the cut.

Yes before you ask I'm bored.

 

[Sucumbio]

Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008):()

Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo 3DS and Wii U (2014):

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (2018):/

My favorite newcomers in each game. Clearly I'm biased toward my first smash game Brawl.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Super Smash Bros. (1999):

Super Smash Bros. Melee (2001):

Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008):()

Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo 3DS and Wii U (2014):()

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (2018):/

All the veterans over the years in Smash games. Ultimate easily hands downs has the best newcomers. K. Rool, Ridley, Banjo, Sephiroth, AND SORA? How does Brawl even compare?

I'd argue two things keep me from saying Ultimate is the best: first is the fact that half of the newcomers are DLC, which almost equals the game's full price. Not arguing it's a bad deal for the content we're getting or saying DLC is bad, just that a lot of what makes Ultimate's roster so great is behind a paywall, while Brawl's was not.

Second is the first party selection. While Ultimate did give us a great selection, I'd dare say the Smash roster would feel naked today without picks like Meta Knight, Wario, PT, Dedede and Diddy Kong. The first party picks we got were arguably the best for their time imo.

That aside, they're the two best sets overall, I'd say.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I mean The Disney part is important to the series, let's be real.
However, the non-argument was that Sora couldn't represent Kingdom Hearts by himself without Disney Stuff. Which is ****ing BS, when you see his gameplay in smash, you just see Sora from KH, not a gutted out version.
I never understood the need of Disney stuff in sora

I feel like the odd one out because i feel as though Disney adds nothing.
THo I can agree Sora in smash with no disney stuff looks just as good

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

One week since Sora's reveal. How y'all still think and feel about this?

Pretty damn good way to end the pass, and feels pretty damn good as a long time Kingdom Hearts fan and Sora supporter.

In fact, it's good enough for me to write in-depth about it, which you can read in my most recent Speculation piece Keeping a Believing Heart: Reflections on Sora in Smash.

Go read it if you haven't already

 

[Idon]

I kinda feel it both ways.

Quite literally no one at this point plays Kingdom Hearts for the original concept of "Disney x Final Fantasy" anymore, it's spiraled into its own weird bizarre thing with its own fanbase where Disney and FF are quite literally window dressing. That said, its Disney aspects do provide a lot of the series core whimsy and magic which separates it from Final Fantasy. The fact that these basic and child-friendly movie properties provide input and texture on Kingdom Hearts's main story about the human heart helps contrast the themes in an understandable way so we're not suddenly in a Philosophy class.

That said, for a fighting game, yeah Disney can **** right off, I'm here to celebrate Kingdom Hearts crossing over, not Mickey and friends.

 

[Shroob]

Not even a KH fan by any means, but even I gotta admit this was the best choice they could have made tbh.


Sora's trended on Twitter whenever a Direct's come up for like what, 2 years now? It's obvious that he was severely wanted.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What If...?

Cinderace was the final fighter instead?

 

[Noipoi]

One week since Sora's reveal. How y'all still think and feel about this?

A perfect way to end the game, especially because I was expecting some **** like Cinderace. And I say this as a hyper-mega Pokémon fan. Ending the ultimate smash game with the most requested character of them all (outside of shrek) is just…beautiful.

It’s just such a magical thing, it reminds me of just why I love smash bros. And it’s reminded me that I finally need to cross kingdom hearts off my gaming bucket list.

 

[Idon]

What If...?

Cinderace was the final fighter instead?

I feel like the concept of a "What If" means the hypothetical scenario is at least interesting and not outright obvious.

"More people will be disappointed."

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Speaking off sora they had the audacity to play such a fantastic theme song during sora&/ cgi reveal and then not give it us in smash. Don’t ya just hate it when a fantastic song is played during a trailer and isn’t included during the final game.

Pain!!!!!!

If I remember correctly, Simple and Clean is tied up in an absolute legal nightmare that probably just wasn't worth using outside of the main trailer since that would be considerably easier than its full inclusion. They were already moving heaven and earth for Sora to begin with, so something had to give elsewhere.

 

[ForsakenM]

If anyone can give me the link of those threads, I'd go and look back to the Grinch leak time and the "Sassy Geno" which was just a Project M mods alongside the Brave Datamine and Square-Enix list of character.
You'll be surprised.

I could dig through it, but man that thread is huge, and honestly it doesn't matter because the fact is the Geno Thread wasn't what others would consider bad until I would say a couple months before that bird guy from GameFAQs showed up. It got disgusting after that, regardless of his reasons for being there, and it calmed down over time but the meltdown of Sephiroth was the absolute worst it ever got. These two and the whole Starling debacle were the only times it felt embarrassing to be in that thread, and Starling was post-realization that someone who cleans urinals jumped out of line and made an assumption.

As far as the Grinch Leak goes, I wouldn't be surprised if Geno Fans fought you on it because it said Geno was in, and if they did that's bias and stupid of them. I never let Geno being in that picture convince me of anything and I always thought it was fake, so if I can do that, I know other Geno Bros did too. I remember a lot of 'I hope it's real because Geno, but I don't think so' and 'Fake af, but would be nice because Geno', and it wasn't all from me.

Sassy Geno got meme'd and was never believed to be for anything substantial from what I recall. I think we even got an animation with Geno in Mario Odyssey doing a sassy eye-roll. Same with another Geno image where he looked like a monkey.

I personally was against Brave meaning DQ for a while until I did research both via other comments on this site and looking outside of this site, to which my only issue was how they would represent all of DQ with a single character. I swore up and down that Nintendo would have to pick Luminary because shilling but also picking a face that the West would recognize, but that they also needed Erdrick because otherwise they are insulting the legacy of DQ, and I brought up Eighter as a Western icon. Sadly I never thought of the simple solution of multiple alts and a Final Smash to show off the rest, but oh well. I was actually kind of on the 'Valor Form = Brave Form" for a while despite thinking Sora would be impossible to get, and since the discussion was mostly about DQ I'm not sure how Sora would be getting Geno Fan hate during this time but I suppose stranger things have happened.

If you mean the Seven Square Reps leak, I think we actually held on to that throughout the entire cycle. It's funny because Sora was on the list, but even the original leaker counted Sora out because he was deemed impossible, so in actuality it seems like 7SR was almost 100%: Luminary and Erdrick both are playable, Slime is a Hat, Sephiroth is playable, Sora is playable, Geno is a costume again and Crono is the only one missing. I've hears some people theorizing that this list could still pertain to a Deluxe in the works and that Geno and Crono will be playable in said Deluxe, but I'm more inclined to believe that this leak was just for Ultimate and that Crono was on the table but nothing came out of that.

I SWEAR to you, I cannot count the times I saw 'Sora is Disney and not competition for Geno' posted in the Geno Thread over the course of this cycle. If it wasn't a monumental task for such a pointless reason, I would go through and quote like 15-20 of them just to reply to them in the Geno Thread with Sora's title card art and add "So...you were saying?" Also, I STAYED saying that Sora was competition because he was Square-created and thus would need Square not only on board but involved in the creative process, but NO ONE LISTENED TO ME!

Shroob and basically everyone else so I can summarize my response to that massively-liked post as such: Say what you want about the Geno Thread, but at the end of the day ANY support thread could have and likely will in the future end up like what happened there. No matter whether we were just talking about our boy or recent leaks or how information favored his chances, it was mostly peaceful (even if a bit over-hyped and delusional, which I had my fair share of dabbling in and fighting against) without provocation. The most I saw without being antagonized was fans coming here to argue how things favored Geno whether they favored him exclusively or not and how high his chances were. I've been corrected here on information before in this regard, and while I appreciated it, I think both this thread and the Geno Thread were guilty of a bit of Smash speculation history revision as well as arguing or debating about things that really didn't matter who was right about what.

Sure, there were times we got a bit silly or drunk on thinking we were winning, but there were also plenty of times we had no reason to think otherwise. There is also an issue here of people not being able to understand memes, something not exclusive to this thread, and taking things at face value when it's meant to be satirical. As someone who complained to other friends about how people in my own most wanted's support group acted, I know it got worse and worse, but I also know that when I first joined it wasn't like that. This is what happens when you think you got it all in the bag and everyone keeps trying to take your bag and bash you over the head with it.

Anyhoo, talking about Ye Ol' Geno Thread has gotten boring, as talking about the past tends to get. I'd much rather talk about the future, but since I'm holding on that I might wait and enjoy Sora and more NASB until then. If I'm not as active here for a bit then that is why.

 

[Noipoi]

What If...?

Cinderace was the final fighter instead?

The people rage. I laugh. Smash fans declare ultimate the worst game of all time, despite all the other incredible things it’s done. Life goes on.

 

[KillerCage]

Super Smash Bros. (1999):

Super Smash Bros. Melee (2001):

Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008):()

Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo 3DS and Wii U (2014):()

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (2018):/

All the veterans over the years in Smash games. Ultimate easily hands downs has the best newcomers. K. Rool, Ridley, Banjo, Sephiroth, AND SORA? How does Brawl even compare?

Brawl may have a smaller roster than Ultimate, but I think it's SLIGHTLY better because it felt complete without feeling overstuffed.
Because Ultimate was going all in with "Everyone is here!", it resulted in a inflated roster (three Link? Do we need that many?) and exacerbated Fire Emblem's issue with overrepresentation. Also most of Ultimate's newcomers were locked behind a DLC paywall while Brawl newcomers were all part of the base game.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

I am not sure if I said it here but Rikus stained glass picture and sort of stage is actually from the Kingdom Hearts 15th anniversary cup coaster from one of Square enix's Cafe and so is Soras

I'd assume the same thing goes for Terra and Aqua stained glass picture where the Mickey mouse head is edited out for the Unversed logo

 

[Speed Weed]

what if.....the final fighter was Your Mom

 

[Noipoi]

what if.....the final fighter was Your Mom

Too big for smash

 

[N3ON]

Shroob and basically everyone else so I can summarize my response to that massively-liked post as such: Say what you want about the Geno Thread, but at the end of the day ANY support thread could have and likely will in the future end up like what happened there. No matter whether we were just talking about our boy or recent leaks or how information favored his chances, it was mostly peaceful (even if a bit over-hyped and delusional, which I had my fair share of dabbling in and fighting against) without provocation. The most I saw without being antagonized was fans coming here to argue how things favored Geno whether they favored him exclusively or not and how high his chances were. I've been corrected here on information before in this regard, and while I appreciated it, I think both this thread and the Geno Thread were guilty of a bit of Smash speculation history revision as well as arguing or debating about things that really didn't matter who was right about what.

You say this like we couldn't see for ourselves what was going on, like anyone who wasn't an active participant in the Geno thread couldn't still observe its behaviour. Even people who did contribute in the Geno thread are saying its trajectory wasn't solely because of outside influence.

It's along the same vein as when you come in telling us how the fanbase is always mistaken, completely disregarding one of the two sides, as if we weren't there ourselves, and as if the fanbase is unilaterally of the same mind on something. If there's any fanbase where that's rarely the case, it's this one.

To be honest, you're not a very reliable chronicler.

What If...?

Cinderace was the final fighter instead?

 

[ForsakenM]

One week since Sora's reveal. How y'all still think and feel about this?

It's odd, but when was announced, it took me weeks to break out of the haze that felt like it was reality. I remember watching reaction after reaction and commentary after commentary and I still couldn't grasp that it was actually happening. And yet, doesn't feel like that to me at all, despite how impossible it seems that he would be to acquired. It felt like it made sense and that it was always possible and that it was real immediately after the presentation ended.

There could be a number of factors to this, but I think the biggest one for me is that Sora is a huge AAA third-party: His series is still on going (for better or worse), he's getting lots of ports of his games and he just got his latest and another spin-off. When you compare that to someone like B&K who are a dead franchise (no matter how anyone may argue, no new game since 2008 and they only get minor references in some newer Rare titles), B&K just seem so much more surreal, so much more impossible to happen where as Sora felt like they would always go for him IF they could get him.

As for how I feel about the inclusion, well...I had an autistic hype spasm when Hand In Hand started playing and it became clear that it would be in Smash, and jammed with each music track that played, and I just about burst in tears when Sakurai showed off how 1-to-1 Hollow Bastion is in the background. I'm sad that they couldn't get anything Disney in outside of the Kingdom Key, and I totally understand why it is this way, but I really wanted to at least see Trinity Limit as his Final Smash or a complex mechanic where Goofy and Donald work like Ice Climbers...but we know Donald and Goofy are too OP so I'll make do (Never forget MP Gift).

Outside of that I think he plays extremely well. Having his design be KH1 and most of his alts reference KH2 automatically wins me over. His gameplay is extremely true to the series and he translates to Smash so well, it's almost like he was always meant to be in. I can't wait to play him and jam to my favorite KH1 tracks while playing Smash, but I wish I got some KH2 tracks in there as well.

 

[Firox]

Brawl may have a smaller roster than Ultimate, but I think it's SLIGHTLY better because it felt complete without feeling overstuffed.
Because Ultimate was going all in with "Everyone is here!", it resulted in a inflated roster (three Link? Do we need that many?) and exacerbated Fire Emblem's issue with overrepresentation. Also most of Ultimate's newcomers were locked behind a DLC paywall while Brawl newcomers were all part of the base game.

I personally think that the chief factors that set Ultimate above the rest are:

1) Biggest roster regardless of paywall by far
2) Smoothest competitive mechanics since Melee (and none of that trip feature bullcrap from Brawl)
3) Best (albeit still flawed) Online gameplay
4) 2nd Best attempt at a "story mode" behind Subspace Emissary (that much will always be Brawl's crowning achievement)

I wouldn't say that any Smash is absolutely perfect but Ultimate has the most pros to cons as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

what if.....the final fighter was Your Mom

I love my mum but I don't want to see her getting beat up so I would be sad.

 

[PeridotGX]

I always thought KH without Disney would be kinda weird, but not a dealbreaker. Kinda like the lack of refrence to the Human Pokemon chaeracters. Lo and behold- that's what it feels like now.

 

[Shroob]

I always thought KH without Disney would be kinda weird, but not a dealbreaker. Kinda like the lack of refrence to the Human Pokemon chaeracters. Lo and behold- that's what it feels like now.

"Are we jokes to you?"

 

[chocolatejr9]

"Are we jokes to you?"

looks at Pokemon Spirits

Yes, apparently.

 

[Guynamednelson]

looks at Pokemon Spirits

Yes, apparently.

Blame The Pokemon Company and their preference for corporate/Dream World art for a lot of media. The SS spirit event only uses Sugimoris because those Pokemon didn't have corporate art yet.