Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[PLATINUM7]

More than Min Min?

That feels somewhat debatable.


Maybe it's just hindsight speaking and we can see how, frankly loathed Min Min has become, but idk.

Isn't Min Min more disliked for her gameplay, not her inclusion?

 

[Shroob]

Isn't Min Min more disliked for her gameplay, not her inclusion?

Yeah.


I guess I'm just kinda factoring in both here, where Byleth came out to a rough landing, but is fairly inoffensive, if not fun to watch/play

While ARMS just kinda, exists, and Min Min is, kinda hated to play against.

 

[PLATINUM7]

Well considering what happened to Min Min and Smash 4 Bayo, fingers crossed Sora doesn't break the meta.

Or maybe people would be into that since he's so popular.

 

[N3ON]

More than Min Min?

That feels somewhat debatable.


Maybe it's just hindsight speaking and we can see how, frankly loathed Min Min has become, but idk.

Oh yeah. Now the reception to Min Min would vary based on whether they gave us a heads up it was gonna be an ARMS character or not as they did. Without warning it would've been worse. But even then, it's not effectively pulling a second Corrin.

 

[Polan]

oh yeah we're not getting anyone from SWSH. by the time the next smash comes along gen 9 will be a thing.

 

[Shroob]

oh yeah we're not getting anyone from SWSH. by the time the next smash comes along gen 9 will be a thing.

Considering how fast they churn them out anymore, we may even be on Gen 10.

 

[Idon]

oh yeah we're not getting anyone from SWSH. by the time the next smash comes along gen 9 will be a thing.

Or maybe it'll be Pokemon Legends 2: Rayquaza, ft. Industrial Revolution Japan.

 

[DevaAshera]

No Roxas echo kills me smh.

Anyway, I love how all of the Dives are reused assets so the only one that really fits is Sora and Ventus who were specifically designed for it. They actually edited out Riku's Castle Oblivion CoM cards in RE:Mind though I suppose that didn't come through to Sakurai and his team in time lol.

This also means that Kairi and Axel get no Dive to the Heart sadly.

Actually..Sora's a re-used asset too..his artwork comes from the cover of the Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix Ultimania that released in 2004, before his Dive to the Heart was shown in Kingdom Hearts II in 2005..though it was edited to make his eyes closed instead of open. This kinda means that only Ventus & Vanitas have original artwork made specifically for their Stations of Heart, even if they were meant to replicate Sora's artwork.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I suppose since our time here is limited and soon we'll be on to speculating about the new exciting Smash game that we know nothing about, I ought to put out this post sooner rather than later. I present:

Keeping a Believing Heart: Reflections on Sora in Smash​

Spoiler: Table of Contents

Spoiler: 1. Acknowledgements

• No acknowledgements this time other than to Masahiro Sakurai for doing the impossible and getting Sora in Smash Bros. Ultimate
• I will not check my bias at the door because this is a reflective piece all about my bias for Sora lmao the only thing I need to check at the door is your mom GOTTEM

Spoiler: 2. Introduction

My first post about Sora in Smash online is when he appeared on one of my old GameFAQs Fan-Rosters from January 2013 (before I got IP-banned lmao–a story for another day), where Sora's an "honorable mention," whatever that means. He actually made it on my Roster 3.0 one month later, though didn't appear on my fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh rosters.

Yes, I made a lot of rosters when I was 13. No, I don't know what happened to the first one.

Following my move to Smashboards, my first post about Sora on Smashboards dates back to July 2014 in the Shulk Social Thread, wherein I said:

Yeah, if Square Enix gets a playable rep, it wouldn't surprise me if it was one of the Bravely Default characters. After that I'd say Neku or Black Mage are likely also. Can't use Sora because he's owned by Disney.

Pretty surreal to read this post back with my current profile pic, which is Sora in Smash Bros., but I digress

Sora is a character I have a lot of history with, both personally and as a speculator. In this piece I'll go into more detail about Sora's meaning to me, and why his inclusion in Smash was such a big deal to me.

Obviously, spoiler warning for the Kingdom Hearts series, and trigger warning for mental health and suicidal ideation.

Spoiler: 3. Personal History

I was introduced to the Kingdom Hearts series by my sister, who was introduced to it by a friend of hers. I was probably in the third grade at the time, and to that point had been predominantly a Nintendo gamer. I did have a Playstation 2 for Star Wars Battlefront 2 (the good one), so getting Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 was pretty easy. My parents were very easily swayed by the Disney characters featured in the series that they could overlook the E10+ ESRB rating (my parents were very big on ESRB ratings as a criterion for what games I could or couldn't play, to the point where I wasn't allowed to play Melee, and Brawl was a hard sell for them). The Disney characters were a large draw for myself at the time as well, as I was a huge Disney fan growing up, and the idea of being able to play a massive crossover video game series with a bunch of Disney series was...well, awesome. Sign me the **** up.

So, my sister and I got Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 (and Re:CoM, though neither of us played it). Funnily enough, my sister was able to get farther into the original Kingdom Hearts than me, but I beat Kingdom Hearts 2 far before her. While she fell out of the series and video gaming in general, Kingdom Hearts was something that I kept with. When Kingdom Hearts was on DS, I got that. I dreamed of being able to swing around a Keyblade on the Wii, though that never happened. When Kingdom Hearts was on PSP, I got a PSP. I bought a Playstation 3 because I foolishly believed Kingdom Hearts 3 would release on it (the ports were good though!), and always one to learn from my mistakes I did the same thing with the PS4. Kingdom Hearts 3 was also part of my motivations for buying a PS5, as I want to play it with the best quality that I can while also being able to keep up with new releases in the series. I've gone through every game in the series at least twice, I've played through Kingdom Hearts 3 three different times, and I don't even know how many times I've gone through Kingdom Hearts 2–I'd guess at least ten times, and I'm currently going through it again right now. Kingdom Hearts 2 and 3 comprise 2/3s of the games I've gotten the Platinum Trophy for on Playstation ever (with the third being Persona 5 Royal, which was really easy), and I have plans to go back and Platinum the entire series at this point now that Sora's in Smash (in part due to a bet I made, but also because it's something I've always wanted to do really). I have a terrible memory, yet I can clearly remember playing Kingdom Hearts throughout different parts of my life. Playing Kingdom Hearts 2 on a small, portable TV when I'd just moved into my new house and then changing to the flat screen TV we'd just bought when it was set up. The first time I fought Sephiroth and got absoluted bodied before I grinded to level 99 and got the Ultima Weapon to body him back. Beating Mysterious Figure on the PSP (where he was much harder) with Phineas and Ferb playing in the background. Facing off against Roxas immediately before I was hospitalized for suicidal depression. Kingdom Hearts is something I've grown up alongside, and that I've always resonated with in some form.

I'm not really one to incorporate video games into my life or personality, but Kingdom Hearts is a major exception to that. I own two prop Keyblades–one mounted on my wall and the other that I sleep with next to my bed because it's made of metal and I could brain someone to death with it, I have a custom Kingdom Hearts logo made by a friend of mine as my computer desktop and Gmail background (and it will be that way for as long as I live), I have a Kingdom Hearts logo as my phone's background, and across multiple revamps of my childhood bedroom posters for Kingdom Hearts 2 and 358/2 Days have stayed up (and have been in my background for digital meetings for the past 2 years). If I were to ever get a tattoo it'd be the Kingdom Heart heart symbol, I could go on, but to say that Kingdom Hearts is my favorite video game series would be an understatement.

While the Disney characters were what initially drew me in, I found myself compelled more by the original story elements more and more. It was a whimsical story of good guys and bad guys, and the continued struggle between light and darkness. It balanced moments of seriousness with zany moments such as Sora and Donald Duck getting into a fistfight with the bros from Mulan. It had lovable characters who I've been able to resonate with, and who I can look to as reflections for my own growth throughout the years. Growing up I appreciated Sora's boundless energy and optimism, and his capability to connect to the people around him. I always tried to be like that myself; to make friends wherever I could and keep my friends together. This ended up backfiring in horrific fashion when I got into High School, and petty drama fractured the connections I'd made faster than I could truly understand. Drama and toxicity with my friends, among other factors, eventually led to me having a mental breakdown and developing suicidal ideation. Struggling between different parts of myself, I looked to conflicts within Kingdom Hearts to parallel my own and provide me with some sort of strength.

Drawing from characters like Sora, I thought that would be my friends, to which I was sorely wrong. The friends who I tried to rely weren't my power, nor did they help me in any major way. This was the first time my worldview was really challenged, and I recognized that relying on friends alone wasn't a reliable source of strength. At the very least, it wasn't with crummy friends like me. Ironically, it was around that same time where, in the story of Kingdom Hearts, Sora's reliance on his connections was taken advantage of and shown for the flaw it was. I was further able to draw parallels to Riku, who throughout the series struggled with his own darkness before coming to terms with it and accepting it as a part of him. For me, my "darkness" was the depression that I was diagnosed with in the hospital and that completely uprooted my life as I knew it, throwing new and seemingly insurmountable challenges in my way. But just as light prevails in the Kingdom Hearts series, so too was I able to find my own "light" by getting a grasp on my mental health despite years of struggle and bullying from my peers. The name "DaybreakHorizon" comes from this period of my life, as a reflection of the phrase "Day will always break on the Horizon," and yes, it was in part inspired by Kingdom Hearts. I looked to words vaguely related to light and darkness, such as Twilight, but ultimately Daybreak felt right (Horizon was added because "Daybreak" is taken on most sites, but it works).

Kingdom Hearts has a lot of personal meaning to me, far more than any other series, and my experiences playing through the series have reflected on some of the most important parts of my life, especially as I've struggled in creating an identity for myself.

Spoiler: 4. Speculation History

As previously mentioned, my first posts about Kingdom Hearts range from 2013 to 2014, when I was in middle school. Kingdom Hearts is always something I'd wanted in Smash Bros. (writing in past tense for this is so weird...), because it'd be so cool to see my favorite video game series in my other favorite video game series, and I've been enamored with the concept of Kingdom Hearts specifically crossing over with Nintendo since I saw the Mushroom Kingdom Hearts April Fools joke in EGM in my then-therapist's office–I was a gullible child and thought it was real, only to be sorely disappointed when it wasn't. Despite that, I'd always gone back and forth on whether it was actually possible based on popular opinion, reputable testimony, and my own research into Sora. Throughout 2015 I supported Sora, saying as such in an unpopular opinions post where I give a variety of other common and bad takes on video games and anime (I legitimately cringed at the Kirino take–what the **** was I thinking?). Mainly I hoped for the compromise of Kingdom Hearts Mii Costumes, as I never thought Disney would work with Nintendo for a full character, but would for a Mii Costume for...some reason. By 2016 I largely stopped posting on Smashboards due to high school picking up alongside my own mental health problems becoming apparent. I'd spend the next two years too focused on my real life to even think about Smashboards.

That was, until Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo Switch was announced. Remembering the good ol' days of Smash 4 Speculation (which is a separate story for a separate day), I decided to pop into the boards and speculate for old time's sake. This time around I was more vocal about Sora, hoping as such in one of my first posts back 5 days after the official reveal. When Sora was "leaked" before E3 2018, I was one of the first people to latch onto it, as I would with most Sora leaks (except for, ironically, the final one that ended up being true). Sora was never leaked often though, and was also leaked to not be in the game at least twice. I guess he's unique in that he's the only character to have leaked as not being in the game. But I digress. What follows is 17 pages of posts of mine spanning 3 years, all of which mention Sora in some way, likely to advocate for his chances at inclusion. Whether it was during base game speculation, in the Seven Squares thread (where Nekoo , A.G.L. , and I all became brothers in arms), Pass 1 speculation, or Pass 2 speculation, I stood up for Sora wherever I could–which was in a lot of places given what I stood against.

I stood in the face of rather steep opposition coming from many sides. People who worked for Disney in some form and knew how stringent they could be, supporters of other Square Enix characters (cough Geno cough), people who didn't like Disney for any of the many valid reasons to not like Disney, and people who just thought it'd be plain impossible. If I had a nickel for every time I had to argue with someone that Sora could be included without explicitly including Disney (which he was) or disprove some other inane argument about him, I'd...have a lot of nickels.

I made my reputation as a speculation essayist in part due to Sora, with my first major speculation piece, The Ultimate Square Enix Character Argument, containing an almost 1300 word essay arguing largely in favor for Sora. A year and a half later I'd follow up this essay with a second, 4344 word essay in The Second Ultimate Square Enix Character Argument, where I took a more critical look at his chances. Regardless I gave him a 50/50 chance, far better than most would give him. I'd probably say I've spent a solid day or two just researching Sora and Smash Bros. so as to connect the two however best I could, which is far more time than I've given any other character I've written about in the past.

And yet, despite all the research, and despite opinions on Sora and Disney's willingness to let him in shifting favorably over the years, there was always a large part of me that thought it impossible. I never really got my hopes up for Sora since, as a result of my research, I knew that Disney generally didn't acknowledge videos until around mid-2018, and I'd always assumed that Nintendo decided on DLC before then and/or had tried to negotiate for Sora in the past and failed. Tough luck for Pass 2, but surely Sora'd have good chances for a Pass 3 or the next Smash Bros. game. I have Kingdom Hearts on my Playstation, so I was fine.

But, my heart refused to give up, and so I put my knowledge and wit to work to create...

THE TINFOIL HAT THEORY

The goal was simple: come up with a scenario that could logically account for Disney favorably negotiating with Nintendo. The result was as such:

This is a longshot in the dark, and this is not backed by any sort of evidence whatsoever. This is more so just a fun "what if" that I think could happen in 1 out of 14,000,605 futures. If there's a point to attack in this essay, this is not one of them, as this point is not serious at all, nor will I seriously advocate for it as more than a tinfoil hat theory if pressed.

Anyways, as well all know, Fighters Pass 2 has 6 fighters instead of 5. This fact was prominently introduced and discussed in Byleth's Sakurai Presents presentation. I believe that this could be due to the fact that negotiations for a character who had previously been rejected (which we know has occurred due to Sakurai's book) suddenly became available, and Nintendo jumped on it. There is precedent for such a thing occurring in the development of a Smash game, as Sonic was a late addition to Brawl, being added 2 years after the newcomer list had initially been decided. While the exact reason for this has seemingly never been stated, it's common speculation that this was due to Sega initially rejecting the request, and then walking back on it later due to the immense hype surrounding Brawl (this Source Gaming article says as such, but does not link back to a primary source which makes me hesitant to completely believe it).

I think you can see where this is going.

Sora had immense popularity during the ballot period, with the Kingdom Hearts community rallying together for Sora's inclusion. It's not hard to believe that Nintendo tried for Sora then, but negotiations fell through for one reason or another. They drop the issue until Fighters Pass 2, when Disney has done a 180 on video games following the mass success of Kingdom Hearts 3 and is looking to promote the series in the largest gaming crossover of all time. Nintendo approaches Sakurai like they did for Dragon Quest, and they go for it despite having already decided Fighters Pass 2 in its entirety. Since it's DLC, all they have to do is tack on another fighter to the pass and promote as such.

This explanation accounts for Disney's role in negotiations while also accommodating the timeline of Fighters Pass 2 being decided. In the initial deciding, Nintendo had a very thin window to negotiate with Disney if they decided to do so, probably for the second or third time. By going outside of that timeline, however, and explaining Disney's turnaround on negotiations as being due to a desire to capitalize off the success of the Kingdom Hearts series after KH3, you can justify Sora's inclusion as the special sixth fighter in Fighters Pass 2.

Of course, I completely acknowledge the sheer amount of logical leaps and mental gymnastics needed to reach such a conclusion. This certainly doesn't hold up to Occam's Razor, which would sooner accept that negotiations for Sora either haven't occurred or failed in the past, and that this Fighters Pass has 6 characters because Fighters Pass 1 was incredibly successful, Nintendo wanted to add more characters, and it just so happened to work out to 6 characters instead of 5. However, I think this theory is worth mentioning, at the very least as a fun little thought.

I didn't seriously think that this could be true in any way, but it provided a logical way for Sora to get in, and that was satisfactory to me. So, I kept the tinfoil hat theory tucked away in my back pocket and really only joked about it with friends ("hey, wouldn't this be funny if this were actually true?"). Speculation went on, and I gradually fell out of Smash speculation as my life picked up and other commitments and responsibilities too focus.

Spoiler: 5. The Reveal

Which brings us to October 5th. I was as disconnected from the community as I could've been. I'd left the major Smash Discord I was a part of due to personal disillusionment a petty falling out, and I popped in to Smashboards the week before for old time's sake, fully planning to leave once it was all over. I was fully expecting Phoenix Wright or Nahobino or...Flame Chungus (Cinderace). I almost didn't want to wake up early on the 5th because I was so out of it all, but I figured I at least owed it to my 14 year old self who always made an effort to watch Smash reveals live. This was the culmination of the past 7 years of my life essentially, and I'd be there even if it was by myself.

I was aware of the October 5th leak (I think I heard about it from Hungrybox?), but I didn't think much of it. Anyone who knows my history on this site knew that I kept a catalogue of over 1000+ 4chan "leaks" that popped up over the course of a Summer 2018, none of which were actually true. Sometimes a 4chan leak gets a date or a character right, but, also, a broken clock is right twice a day and an infinite amount of monkeys given typewriters will eventually type out the full works of Shakespeare. So I didn't really give it much stock, as much as I wanted to believe.

Come October 5th I woke up 15 minutes early and decided to film my reaction. Post it here and send it to a friend to post on the Discord since I missed all of them, and it's a good thing I did. I think everyone here's seen the result, but here it is again:

1 and a half minutes of me being unable to believe that Sora's in Smash, and that the tinfoil hat theory was RIGHT. The one time I decided to be a fringe conspiracy theorist worked to amazing results. Naturally, I had to take a victory lap. On here, and on Discord, culminating in me rejoining the Smash Discord I'd left to celebrate with all of my old friends, having reflected on the past myself and become better for it.

Yes, that's right. Sora in Smash legitimately reconnected me to old friends (that I'd missed).

It was a magical day of reunions and celebration, and it's been a magical week to be honest. It hasn't been magical for my schoolwork but the fact that Sora's in the game is an exceptional circumstance and I think justifies a lot little bit of slacking off.

I genuinely can't fully put into words just how great a day it was, but it surely beat out my reaction to Joker's announcement at The Game Awards and the hype that ensued. Sora's been my never ever request for the longest time, and I still think of him in that way, but he's not a never ever because he's actually in the game. He's been a common thread not only throughout this speculation cycle for me, but throughout my life as a whole. I wouldn't be who I am today if it weren't for Sora and the Kingdom Hearts series, so to see him immortalized in the largest video game crossover ever, alongside greats such as Mario, Pikachu, Sonic, Pac-Man, and so many more is...incredibly meaningful to say the very least. Again, I don't think it's something I can fully put into words. I suppose I could try, but I think I'm content with what I've said so far and this piece is already long enough, so let's wrap things up.

Spoiler: 6. Closing Thoughts

To be honest it's only just now sinking in that this is real. That Sora is actually in Smash and I'll be able to play as him on the 18th. This is the culmination of 8 years of Speculation, and 3 years of Smash Ultimate Speculation. My luck with getting my most wanteds is truly unreal, as I'm now 7/7 for between Smash 4 and Ultimate (something I'll go into detail in for another post–be it a wider reflection of just something small). But it's all real, and not some sweet dream that I'll wake up from and it'll actually be Cinderace or something not like that.

To give an afterword, this piece was a bit of a rush job since the thread is closing so soon, and I'd now rather play Smash instead of write about it (I have admittedly not played Smash for a very long time...since before Hero came out...). My final piece, a review on the entirety of my experience this Speculation cycle, will likely take a far longer amount of time to write, if only due to the sheer amount of content it has to cover (we're talking about 3 year's worth of speculation, drama including CW a site-wide meltdown and an online pedophile hunt, personal growth, and more. I'm currently planning on breaking it into four parts, each of which cover months or years worth of time. It'll certainly be a long piece if I ever come around to doing it; I honestly might not since I don't think there'd be much interest in it. I've also got Sora in Smash Bros. to play as so like, I dunno maybe I'll just get too wrapped up maining him and not write it too. We'll see.

Let me know if y'all want to see the third and final installment in this series eventually. It'll be out far past the expiration date of this thread, so perhaps I'll tie it into the next cycle of speculation or something, I don't know. But if there's not interest for it, then I'd rather just

.

I'll be staying around (I got free premium and I'm going to use it goshdarnit), but I don't see much of a point in speculating about a hypothetical game that likely won't come out for another 5 years. So, I'll probably just hang out in the Social Thread and occasionally pop in the fancy new Next Smash Speculation Thread to give my two cents.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch Sora's trailer for what's probably the tenth time.

 

[Idon]

Actually..Sora's a re-used asset too..his artwork comes from the cover of the Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix Ultimania that released in 2004, before his Dive to the Heart was shown in Kingdom Hearts II in 2005..though it was edited to make his eyes closed instead of open. This kinda means that only Ventus & Vanitas have original artwork made specifically for their Stations of Heart, even if they were meant to replicate Sora's artwork.

Ah, that's a good point!
Regardless, Sora and Ventus's do "fit" more I feel. The rest being "just their normal artwork" that show off the character kinda goes against the more "dreamy" nature fo the Dive to the Heart.

... they should've at least closed Riku's eyes is what I'm saying.

 

[ShotoStar]

I suppose since our time here is limited and soon we'll be on to speculating about the new exciting Smash game (that probably won't come out for like 5 years), I ought to put out this post sooner rather than later. I present:

Keeping a Believing Heart: Reflections on Sora in Smash​

Spoiler: Table of Contents

Spoiler: 1. Acknowledgements

• No acknowledgements this time other than to Masahiro Sakurai for doing the impossible and getting Sora in Smash Bros. Ultimate
• I will not check my bias at the door because this is a reflective piece all about my bias for Sora lmao the only thing I need to check at the door is your mom GOTTEM

Spoiler: 2. Introduction

My first post about Sora in Smash online is when he appeared on one of my old GameFAQs Fan-Rosters from January 2013 (before I got IP-banned lmao–a story for another day), where Sora's an "honorable mention," whatever that means. He actually made it on my Roster 3.0 one month later, though didn't appear on my fourth, fifth, sixth, or seventh rosters.

Yes, I made a lot of rosters when I was 13. No, I don't know what happened to the first one.

Following my move to Smashboards, my first post about Sora on Smashboards dates back to July 2014 in the Shulk Social Thread, wherein I said:

Pretty surreal to read this post back with my current profile pic, which is Sora in Smash Bros., but I digress

Sora is a character I have a lot of history with, both personally and as a speculator. In this piece I'll go into more detail about Sora's meaning to me, and why his inclusion in Smash was such a big deal to me.

Obviously, spoiler warning for the Kingdom Hearts series, and trigger warning for mental health and suicidal ideation.

Spoiler: 3. Personal History

I was introduced to the Kingdom Hearts series by my sister, who was introduced to it by a friend of hers. I was probably in the third grade at the time, and to that point had been predominantly a Nintendo gamer. I did have a Playstation 2 for Star Wars Battlefront 2 (the good one), so getting Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 was pretty easy. My parents were very easily swayed by the Disney characters featured in the series that they could overlook the E10+ ESRB rating (my parents were very big on ESRB ratings as a criterion for what games I could or couldn't play, to the point where I wasn't allowed to play Melee, and Brawl was a hard sell for them). The Disney characters were a large draw for myself at the time as well, as I was a huge Disney fan growing up, and the idea of being able to play a massive crossover video game series with a bunch of Disney series was...well, awesome. Sign me the **** up.

So, my sister and I got Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 (and Re:CoM, though neither of us played it). Funnily enough, my sister was able to get farther into the original Kingdom Hearts than me, but I beat Kingdom Hearts 2 far before her. While she fell out of the series and video gaming in general, Kingdom Hearts was something that I kept with. When Kingdom Hearts was on DS, I got that. I dreamed of being able to swing around a Keyblade on the Wii, though that never happened. When Kingdom Hearts was on PSP, I got a PSP. I bought a Playstation 3 because I foolishly believed Kingdom Hearts 3 would release on it (the ports were good though!), and always one to learn from my mistakes I did the same thing with the PS4. Kingdom Hearts 3 was also part of my motivations for buying a PS5, as I want to play it with the best quality that I can while also being able to keep up with new releases in the series. I've gone through every game in the series at least twice, I've played through Kingdom Hearts 3 three different times, and I don't even know how many times I've gone through Kingdom Hearts 2–I'd guess at least ten times, and I'm currently going through it again right now. Kingdom Hearts 2 and 3 comprise 2/3s of the games I've gotten the Platinum Trophy for on Playstation ever (with the third being Persona 5 Royal, which was really easy), and I have plans to go back and Platinum the entire series at this point now that Sora's in Smash (in part due to a bet I made, but also because it's something I've always wanted to do really). I have a terrible memory, yet I can clearly remember playing Kingdom Hearts throughout different parts of my life. Playing Kingdom Hearts 2 on a small, portable TV when I'd just moved into my new house and then changing to the flat screen TV we'd just bought when it was set up. The first time I fought Sephiroth and got absoluted bodied before I grinded to level 99 and got the Ultima Weapon to body him back. Beating Mysterious Figure on the PSP (where he was much harder) with Phineas and Ferb playing in the background. Facing off against Roxas immediately before I was hospitalized for suicidal depression. Kingdom Hearts is something I've grown up alongside, and that I've always resonated with in some form.

I'm not really one to incorporate video games into my life or personality, but Kingdom Hearts is a major exception to that. I own two prop Keyblades–one mounted on my wall and the other that I sleep with next to my bed because it's made of metal and I could brain someone to death with it, I have a custom Kingdom Hearts logo made by a friend of mine as my computer desktop and Gmail background (and it will be that way for as long as I live), I have a Kingdom Hearts logo as my phone's background, and across multiple revamps of my childhood bedroom posters for Kingdom Hearts 2 and 358/2 Days have stayed up (and have been in my background for digital meetings for the past 2 years). If I were to ever get a tattoo it'd be the Kingdom Heart heart symbol, I could go on, but to say that Kingdom Hearts is my favorite video game series would be an understatement.

While the Disney characters were what initially drew me in, I found myself compelled more by the original story elements more and more. It was a whimsical story of good guys and bad guys, and the continued struggle between light and darkness. It balanced moments of seriousness with zany moments such as Sora and Donald Duck getting into a fistfight with the bros from Mulan. It had lovable characters who I've been able to resonate with, and who I can look to as reflections for my own growth throughout the years. Growing up I appreciated Sora's boundless energy and optimism, and his capability to connect to the people around him. I always tried to be like that myself; to make friends wherever I could and keep my friends together. This ended up backfiring in horrific fashion when I got into High School, and petty drama fractured the connections I'd made faster than I could truly understand. Drama and toxicity with my friends, among other factors, eventually led to me having a mental breakdown and developing suicidal ideation. Struggling between different parts of myself, I looked to conflicts within Kingdom Hearts to parallel my own and provide me with some sort of strength.

Drawing from characters like Sora, I thought that would be my friends, to which I was sorely wrong. The friends who I tried to rely weren't my power, nor did they help me in any major way. This was the first time my worldview was really challenged, and I recognized that relying on friends alone wasn't a reliable source of strength. At the very least, it wasn't with crummy friends like me. Ironically, it was around that same time where, in the story of Kingdom Hearts, Sora's reliance on his connections was taken advantage of and shown for the flaw it was. I was further able to draw parallels to Riku, who throughout the series struggled with his own darkness before coming to terms with it and accepting it as a part of him. For me, my "darkness" was the depression that I was diagnosed with in the hospital and that completely uprooted my life as I knew it, throwing new and seemingly insurmountable challenges in my way. But just as light prevails in the Kingdom Hearts series, so too was I able to find my own "light" by getting a grasp on my mental health despite years of struggle and bullying from my peers. The name "DaybreakHorizon" comes from this period of my life, as a reflection of the phrase "Day will always break on the Horizon," and yes, it was in part inspired by Kingdom Hearts. I looked to words vaguely related to light and darkness, such as Twilight, but ultimately Daybreak felt right (Horizon was added because "Daybreak" is taken on most sites, but it works).

Kingdom Hearts has a lot of personal meaning to me, far more than any other series, and my experiences playing through the series have reflected on some of the most important parts of my life, especially as I've struggled in creating an identity for myself.

Spoiler: 4. Speculation History

As previously mentioned, my first posts about Kingdom Hearts range from 2013 to 2014, when I was in middle school. Kingdom Hearts is always something I'd wanted in Smash Bros. (writing in past tense for this is so weird...), because it'd be so cool to see my favorite video game series in my other favorite video game series, and I've been enamored with the concept of Kingdom Hearts specifically crossing over with Nintendo since I saw the Mushroom Kingdom Hearts April Fools joke in EGM in my then-therapist's office–I was a gullible child and thought it was real, only to be sorely disappointed when it wasn't. Despite that, I'd always gone back and forth on whether it was actually possible based on popular opinion, reputable testimony, and my own research into Sora. Throughout 2015 I supported Sora, saying as such in an unpopular opinions post where I give a variety of other common and bad takes on video games and anime (I legitimately cringed at the Kirino take–what the **** was I thinking?). Mainly I hoped for the compromise of Kingdom Hearts Mii Costumes, as I never thought Disney would work with Nintendo for a full character, but would for a Mii Costume for...some reason. By 2016 I largely stopped posting on Smashboards due to high school picking up alongside my own mental health problems becoming apparent. I'd spend the next two years too focused on my real life to even think about Smashboards.

That was, until Super Smash Bros. for the Nintendo Switch was announced. Remembering the good ol' days of Smash 4 Speculation (which is a separate story for a separate day), I decided to pop into the boards and speculate for old time's sake. This time around I was more vocal about Sora, hoping as such in one of my first posts back 5 days after the official reveal. When Sora was "leaked" before E3 2018, I was one of the first people to latch onto it, as I would with most Sora leaks (except for, ironically, the final one that ended up being true). Sora was never leaked often though, and was also leaked to not be in the game at least twice. I guess he's unique in that he's the only character to have leaked as not being in the game. But I digress. What follows is 17 pages of posts of mine spanning 3 years, all of which mention Sora in some way, likely to advocate for his chances at inclusion. Whether it was during base game speculation, in the Seven Squares thread (where Nekoo , A.G.L. , and I all became brothers in arms), Pass 1 speculation, or Pass 2 speculation, I stood up for Sora wherever I could–which was in a lot of places given what I stood against.

I stood in the face of rather steep opposition coming from many sides. People who worked for Disney in some form and knew how stringent they could be, supporters of other Square Enix characters (cough Geno cough), people who didn't like Disney for any of the many valid reasons to not like Disney, and people who just thought it'd be plain impossible. If I had a nickel for every time I had to argue with someone that Sora could be included without explicitly including Disney (which he was) or disprove some other inane argument about him, I'd...have a lot of nickels.

I made my reputation as a speculation essayist in part due to Sora, with my first major speculation piece, The Ultimate Square Enix Character Argument, containing an almost 1300 word essay arguing largely in favor for Sora. A year and a half later I'd follow up this essay with a second, 4344 word essay in The Second Ultimate Square Enix Character Argument, where I took a more critical look at his chances. Regardless I gave him a 50/50 chance, far better than most would give him. I'd probably say I've spent a solid day or two just researching Sora and Smash Bros. so as to connect the two however best I could, which is far more time than I've given any other character I've written about in the past.

And yet, despite all the research, and despite opinions on Sora and Disney's willingness to let him in shifting favorably over the years, there was always a large part of me that thought it impossible. I never really got my hopes up for Sora since, as a result of my research, I knew that Disney generally didn't acknowledge videos until around mid-2018, and I'd always assumed that Nintendo decided on DLC before then and/or had tried to negotiate for Sora in the past and failed. Tough luck for Pass 2, but surely Sora'd have good chances for a Pass 3 or the next Smash Bros. game. I have Kingdom Hearts on my Playstation, so I was fine.

But, my heart refused to give up, and so I put my knowledge and wit to work to create...

THE TINFOIL HAT THEORY

The goal was simple: come up with a scenario that could logically account for Disney favorably negotiating with Nintendo. The result was as such:

I didn't seriously think that this could be true in any way, but it provided a logical way for Sora to get in, and that was satisfactory to me. So, I kept the tinfoil hat theory tucked away in my back pocket and really only joked about it with friends ("hey, wouldn't this be funny if this were actually true?"). Speculation went on, and I gradually fell out of Smash speculation as my life picked up and other commitments and responsibilities too focus.

Spoiler: 5. The Reveal

Which brings us to October 5th. I was as disconnected from the community as I could've been. I'd left the major Smash Discord I was a part of due to a petty falling out, and I popped in to Smashboards the week before for old time's sake, fully planning to leave once it was all over. I was fully expecting Phoenix Wright or Nahobino or...Flame Chungus (Cinderace). I almost didn't want to wake up early on the 5th because I was so out of it all, but I figured I at least owed it to my 14 year old self who always made an effort to watch Smash reveals live. This was the culmination of the past 7 years of my life essentially, and I'd be there even if it was by myself.

I was aware of the October 5th leak (I think I heard about it from Hungrybox?), but I didn't think much of it. Anyone who knows my history on this site knew that I kept a catalogue of over 1000+ 4chan "leaks" that popped up over the course of a Summer 2018, none of which were actually true. Sometimes a 4chan leak gets a date or a character right, but, also, a broken clock is right twice a day and an infinite amount of monkeys given typewriters will eventually type out the full works of Shakespeare. So I didn't really give it much stock, as much as I wanted to believe.

Come October 5th I woke up 15 minutes early and decided to film my reaction. Post it here and send it to a friend to post on the Discord since I missed all of them, and it's a good thing I did. I think everyone here's seen the result, but here it is again:

1 and a half minutes of me being unable to believe that Sora's in Smash, and that the tinfoil hat theory was RIGHT. The one time I decided to be a fringe conspiracy theorist worked to amazing results. Naturally, I had to take a victory lap. On here, and on Discord, culminating in me rejoining the Smash Discord I'd left to celebrate with all of my old friends, having reflected on the past myself and become better for it.

Yes, that's right. Sora in Smash legitimately reconnected me to old friends (that I'd missed).

It was a magical day of reunions and celebration, and it's been a magical week to be honest. It hasn't been magical for my schoolwork but the fact that Sora's in the game is an exceptional circumstance and I think justifies a lot little bit of slacking off.

I genuinely can't fully put into words just how great a day it was, but it surely beat out my reaction to Joker's announcement at The Game Awards and the hype that ensued. Sora's been my never ever request for the longest time, and I still think of him in that way, but he's not a never ever because he's actually in the game. He's been a common thread not only throughout this speculation cycle for me, but throughout my life as a whole. I wouldn't be who I am today if it weren't for Sora and the Kingdom Hearts series, so to see him immortalized in the largest video game crossover ever, alongside greats such as Mario, Pikachu, Sonic, Pac-Man, and so many more is...incredibly meaningful to say the very least. Again, I don't think it's something I can fully put into words. I suppose I could try, but I think I'm content with what I've said so far and this piece is already long enough, so let's wrap things up.

Spoiler: 6. Closing Thoughts

To be honest it's only just now sinking in that this is real. That Sora is actually in Smash and I'll be able to play as him on the 18th. This is the culmination of 8 years of Speculation, and 3 years of Smash Ultimate Speculation. My luck with getting my most wanteds is truly unreal, as I'm now 7/7 for between Smash 4 and Ultimate (something I'll go into detail in for another post–be it a wider reflection of just something small). But it's all real, and not some sweet dream that I'll wake up from and it'll actually be Cinderace or something not like that.

To give an afterword, this piece was a bit of a rush job since the thread is closing so soon, and I'd now rather play Smash instead of write about it (I have admittedly not played Smash for a very long time...since before Hero came out...). My final piece, a review on the entirety of my experience this Speculation cycle, will likely take a far longer amount of time to write, if only due to the sheer amount of content it has to cover (we're talking about 3 year's worth of speculation, drama including CW a site-wide meltdown and an online pedophile hunt, personal growth, and more. I'm currently planning on breaking it into four parts, each of which cover months or years worth of time. It'll certainly be a long piece if I ever come around to doing it; I honestly might not since I don't think there'd be much interest in it. I've also got Sora in Smash Bros. to play as so like, I dunno maybe I'll just get too wrapped up maining him and not write it too. We'll see.

Let me know if y'all want to see the third and final installment in this series eventually. It'll be out far past the expiration date of this thread, so perhaps I'll tie it into the next cycle of speculation or something, I don't know. But if there's not interest for it, then I'd rather just
View attachment 334061.

I'll be staying around (I got free premium and I'm going to use it goshdarnit), but I don't see much of a point in speculating about a hypothetical game that likely won't come out for another 5 years. So, I'll probably just hang out in the Social Thread and occasionally pop in the fancy new Next Smash Speculation Thread to give my two cents.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go watch Sora's trailer for what's probably the tenth time.

I... really don't use SB much but I wanted to pop in here to congratulate you king. I remember I've always been hard on Sora's chances personally although I haven't touched on him in many of my posts across my deleted accounts nor certainly this account. I just never took him seriously I thought he was a pipedream because of Disney (funny coming from the Geno fan when he's seemingly the true pipedream)...

But you got your boy! I forget if we met in the Seven Squares thread or the Social General but we've been on this ride for the past few years now and I'm really glad for you, truly. I remember back then in the Seven Squares age I was very, very immature about Smash and exclusively caring for Geno, honestly I was in kind of an echo chamber but you plus the rest of the gang pulled me outta that. Of course I'll always care about Geno but I'm much more open-minded thanks to you. I'm glad I got the chance to hang with you throughout all this and Sora bringing you back to the ole Smash Server is truly the best timeline. Congrats, Daybreak! It's really nice to see you get closure from these past 7 years of your life. and I really hope Sora really plays to your liking.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Speaking of KH!

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

I... really don't use SB much but I wanted to pop in here to congratulate you king. I remember I've always been hard on Sora's chances personally although I haven't touched on him in many of my posts across my deleted accounts nor certainly this account. I just never took him seriously I thought he was a pipedream because of Disney (funny coming from the Geno fan when he's seemingly the true pipedream)...

But you got your boy! I forget if we met in the Seven Squares thread or the Social General but we've been on this ride for the past few years now and I'm really glad for you, truly. I remember back then in the Seven Squares age I was very, very immature about Smash and exclusively caring for Geno, honestly I was in kind of an echo chamber but you plus the rest of the gang pulled me outta that. Of course I'll always care about Geno but I'm much more open-minded thanks to you. I'm glad I got the chance to hang with you throughout all this and Sora bringing you back to the ole Smash Server is truly the best timeline. Congrats, Daybreak! It's really nice to see you get closure from these past 7 years of your life. and I really hope Sora really plays to your liking.

I'll make myself like playing him lmao

No way I don't main this dude, even if I have to get used to the playstyle. Thank you for the kind words though!

 

[ShotoStar]

I'll make myself like playing him lmao

No way I don't main this dude, even if I have to get used to the playstyle. Thank you for the kind words though!

Yeah I was gonna say... even if you don't like playing him I'm sure you'll make it work, eh? You've been wanting him forever now it'd be kinda silly not to at least try

 

[PLATINUM7]

I'll make myself like playing him lmao

No way I don't main this dude, even if I have to get used to the playstyle. Thank you for the kind words though!

You need to replicate a level 1 playthrough by doing world of light with Sora with no spirits.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

You need to replicate a level 1 playthrough by doing world of light with Sora with no spirits.

With Skill Tree, it might be possible...

I'll consider it after the World of Light nuzlocke

 

[Curious Villager]

it didn’t help that yo Kai watch was deemed the Pokémon killer and that the franchise was up against Layton who if we ever get content form level 5, it’ll probably come from the Layton franchise first unless they build up an IP that overtakes the Layton franchises sales and is extremely popular outside Japan.

That’s not me being bias by the way.

Level 5 always seems to make unfortunate marketing choices

remember when they claimed their dungeon crawling rpg Dark Cloud was a Zelda killer? Shame since the sequel was one of my favorite games in high school

To be fair, that wasn't Level-5 that marketed these games this way, it was news outlets and marketing companies like Gamesradar and Viz Media that perpetuated these lines. In fact, Level-5 themselves and even Nintendo tried their hardest to avoid these kind of comparisons because they knew that headlines like "insert beloved franchise killer" would only hurt the games.

Thank goodness news outlet never pulled this kind of stunt with the Layton series by calling it a "Brain Age/Ace Attorney Killer" and allowed the franchise to flourish in its own right.

Hopefully they won't pull this kind of junk with Megaton Musashi if that ever gets a western release by being called a "Xenoblade Killer" or something stupid like that...

 

[Geno Boost]

I have a question do you think indies deserve to get a playable character before big companies that haven’t got a rep yet?

 

[osby]

I have a question do you think indies deserve to get a playable character before big companies that haven’t got a rep yet?

Yeah because there's no way all big video game companies are going to have a playable character in Smash so it makes no sense to keep sending the indies to the back of the hypothetical waiting line.

 

[Nekoo]

I have a question do you think indies deserve to get a playable character before big companies that haven’t got a rep yet?

Depends, but I'll say yes.
Undertale/Deltarune? Shantae? Quote? Shovel Knight? I see one of them in the next game
Any others?
I'm not sure.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I have a question do you think indies deserve to get a playable character before big companies that haven’t got a rep yet?

I mostly think a deluxe Mii is good enough for most indie characters. But if the character is massively iconic, I could see it, even if they are indie.

Undertale/Deltarune? Shantae? Quote? Shovel Knight? I see one of them in the next game
Any others?
I'm not sure.

That's about where I'm at(though I don't consider Shantae indie).

 

[ProfPeanut]

I have a question do you think indies deserve to get a playable character before big companies that haven’t got a rep yet?

Not really. Problem is that at some point, any indie big enough to be better than games by big companies probably isn't recognized as an indie anymore (see: Minecraft). The main argument of indies before was that they'd be easier to negotiate with—but as the Fighters Pass demonstrated, Nintendo was very willing to negotiate with big names if it meant getting the biggest newcomers.

Like, I can't say definitively that Smash deserves an Undertale rep before a Halo rep, but the fact is, your average long-running iconic franchise is probably both older and more fondly remembered than your average indie.

 

[ForsakenM]

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 23: Final Destination | Additional Diversity Pending Nintendo - OT

From https://www.gamememory.jp/entry/2019/09/29/231311 Poll had 650+ votes.

www.resetera.com

This post summarize the result a japanese poll was made before they reveal CP5 (Byleth). It had +650 votes. This is top 20:


#25. Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII). 15 votes.
#23. Sol (Guilty Gear). 10 votes.
Also #23. Felyne / Palico (Monster Hunter). 10 votes.
#22. Sakura Shinguji (Sakura Wars). 19 votes.
#21. Reimu (Touhou Project). 20 votes.
#20. Frisk (Undertale). 21 votes.
#19 Akira Howard (Astral Chain). 27 votes.
#18. Octoling (Splatoon). 29 votes.
#17. Shantae (Shantae). 30 votes.
#16. Porky (Mother 3). 31 votes.
#15. Geno (Super Mario RPG). 32 votes.
#13. Magolor (Kirby). 33 votes.
Also #13. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden / Ninja Gaiden). 33 votes
#12. Dante (Devil May Cry). 34 votes.
#11. Amaterasu (Okami). 38 votes.
#10. Lloyd (Tales of Symphonia). 40 votes.
#9. Eighth gen starter / Pokemon (Pokemon Sword & Shield). 42 votes.
#8. Arle (Puyo Puyo / Madou Monogatari). 56 votes.
#7. Hunter (Monster Hunter). 57 votes.
#6. Byleth / Byleth (Fire Emblem: Three Houses). 58 votes.
#5. Steve (Minecraft). 60 votes.
#4. Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot). 100 votes.
#3. Rex (Xenoblade 2). 105 votes.
#2. Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby). 108 votes.
#1. Sora (Kingdom Hearts). 113 votes.

in bold characters that made via fighter or mii costume. Apparently, japanese people got very lucky with CP5, 7, 8, 9 and 11.

Damn, Geno got Top 15 again! I honestly thought that Japan had moved on to what they would deem greener pastures with all the crazy amount of games that tend to fill their cultural niche more, but let's go Japanese Geno Bros!

I won't say much about the Geno Thread. Some guys are nice, but too many are rabbid fans.

Had to deal with too many of them just dragging Sora into the floor pre-release to care.

It was even harder as someone who knew about Base game because of a Beta Tester and Hero in advance (way too long in advance) knowing that Geno wasn't in or that the grinch leak was fake.


Also this whole Leak ****storm was a pain as someone who was there internally and saw my friend getting hurt and doxxed twice because of some ****ers just wanting clout or releasing stuff we asked not to. When all that friend wanted was making those two happy by saying what he knew about Smash or Nintendo.


Now that it's over, I guess I can safely say one thing tho lmao. Nintendo was sending fake ass name for every DLC to their employee, which is why jack** leaked post Steve. Ya, the same fake ass name **, and MC was one of them alongside MH and Akira from Astral Chain for exemple for Sora.


But who cares, *'s over, and I'm just happy I stepped back from all this * and just went to stay and help this friend.

Not sure where you found those supposed rabid Geno fans, but I know for a fact that the Geno Thread here didn't really see Sora as competition despite my warnings, and thus there really wasn't a lot of hate on him. Most people just thought him impossible, which I think was just the general consensus, and if I ever saw it people like SSGuy, Mr. Sweeps and myself usually cracked down on said hate. Sounds like you were looking on Twitter or something, though my experience with that is you can't be a Geno fan and have an active Twitter unless you are well known for something else first.

Also, I'm not so sure all those names are just complete garbo, but I'll talk about that more in my post about Deluxe when the new thread pops up.

Also ShotoStar my dude, Geno isn't a pipedream. Bigger, more popular names were prioritized this time around, so we just hang around until the next Smash title and things will be Gucci.

 

[Geno Boost]

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Downloadable Contents Discussion Thread 23: Final Destination | Additional Diversity Pending Nintendo - OT

From https://www.gamememory.jp/entry/2019/09/29/231311 Poll had 650+ votes.

www.resetera.com

This post summarize the result a japanese poll was made before they reveal CP5 (Byleth). It had +650 votes. This is top 20:


#25. Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII). 15 votes.
#23. Sol (Guilty Gear). 10 votes.
Also #23. Felyne / Palico (Monster Hunter). 10 votes.
#22. Sakura Shinguji (Sakura Wars). 19 votes.
#21. Reimu (Touhou Project). 20 votes.
#20. Frisk (Undertale). 21 votes.
#19 Akira Howard (Astral Chain). 27 votes.
#18. Octoling (Splatoon). 29 votes.
#17. Shantae (Shantae). 30 votes.
#16. Porky (Mother 3). 31 votes.
#15. Geno (Super Mario RPG). 32 votes.
#13. Magolor (Kirby). 33 votes.
Also #13. Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden / Ninja Gaiden). 33 votes
#12. Dante (Devil May Cry). 34 votes.
#11. Amaterasu (Okami). 38 votes.
#10. Lloyd (Tales of Symphonia). 40 votes.
#9. Eighth gen starter / Pokemon (Pokemon Sword & Shield). 42 votes.
#8. Arle (Puyo Puyo / Madou Monogatari). 56 votes.
#7. Hunter (Monster Hunter). 57 votes.
#6. Byleth / Byleth (Fire Emblem: Three Houses). 58 votes.
#5. Steve (Minecraft). 60 votes.
#4. Crash Bandicoot (Crash Bandicoot). 100 votes.
#3. Rex (Xenoblade 2). 105 votes.
#2. Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby). 108 votes.
#1. Sora (Kingdom Hearts). 113 votes.

in bold characters that made via fighter or mii costume. Apparently, japanese people got very lucky with CP5, 7, 8, 9 and 11.

I am actually surprised to see Crash in top 10 in a Japanese poll that’s really interesting

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Not really. Problem is that at some point, any indie big enough to be better than games by big companies probably isn't recognized as an indie anymore (see: Minecraft). The main argument of indies before was that they'd be easier to negotiate with—but as the Fighters Pass demonstrated, Nintendo was very willing to negotiate with big names if it meant getting the biggest newcomers.

Like, I can't say definitively that Smash deserves an Undertale rep before a Halo rep, but the fact is, your average long-running iconic franchise is probably both older and more fondly remembered than your average indie.

Minecraft is owned by Microsoft which os why it isn't seen as indie, not it's success

 

[Shroob]

I am actually surprised to see Crash in top 10 in a Japanese poll that’s really interesting

Not really that surprising. Crash was one of the few western series in the 90's/early 2000's to have somewhat of a foothold in Japan, probably thanks in part to a successful marketing campaign. The same couldn't be said for Spyro. In more recent years, the series has fell off pretty hard, but it's not at all an unknown series.

 

[Dinoman96]

Yeah, Crash 2 was a million seller in Japan, and the other two Naughty Dog games were not far behind.

The only other western platformers that saw success in Japan at the time were Rare's DK and (to a lesser extent) Banjo. The likes of Spyro, Gex, Conker, Croc, Rayman, etc either didn't draw crowds or just weren't released there at all.

 

[Nekoo]

Not sure where you found those supposed rabid Geno fans.

If anyone can give me the link of those threads, I'd go and look back to the Grinch leak time and the "Sassy Geno" which was just a Project M mods alongside the Brave Datamine and Square-Enix list of character.
You'll be surprised.

 

[Shroob]

Damn, Geno got Top 15 again! I honestly thought that Japan had moved on to what they would deem greener pastures with all the crazy amount of games that tend to fill their cultural niche more, but let's go Japanese Geno Bros!



Not sure where you found those supposed rabid Geno fans, but I know for a fact that the Geno Thread here didn't really see Sora as competition despite my warnings, and thus there really wasn't a lot of hate on him. Most people just thought him impossible, which I think was just the general consensus, and if I ever saw it people like SSGuy, Mr. Sweeps and myself usually cracked down on said hate. Sounds like you were looking on Twitter or something, though my experience with that is you can't be a Geno fan and have an active Twitter unless you are well known for something else first.

Also, I'm not so sure all those names are just complete garbo, but I'll talk about that more in my post about Deluxe when the new thread pops up.

Also ShotoStar my dude, Geno isn't a pipedream. Bigger, more popular names were prioritized this time around, so we just hang around until the next Smash title and things will be Gucci.

I think the issue herein lies that what you see as "passionate", everyone else who's not a frequent visitor of the thread sees as rabid.



Like, for example, the "June 2020 Direct Gamespot" stuff. Most everyone here had written it off since, not out of some form of Geno bias, but it didn't make any logical sense, but people over in the thread were going wild in hype because it MUST have meant Geno was confirmed, despite:



A) This would have had to imply that a Direct had been planned for June, and apparently cancelled
B) Gamespot would have needed to know the Direct's contents ahead of time, despite said Direct never being shown off, and apparently not getting the memo
C) The narrator had been hospitalized since like, June, meaning that said Direct would have had to have been shown off even earlier
D) Nintendo pulled out of E3 of that year at the start of March, so you couldn't even make the argument that it'd have been their E3 Direct
E) Despite the Direct not being shown off, Gamespot published the video anyway and not doing a check to see if any of their supposed info was okay to share, and not potentially breaking street date


I remember going in there to try to be a voice of reason as to why this most likely was just a big misunderstanding, but a large amount of people were CONVINCED that Gamespot had slipped up big time. I was told that this was just another piece that was adding up to a big list of reasons why Geno was confirmed, and that Nintendo had totally just, cancelled an entire Direct without anyone realizing it and Gamespot was the only one to slip up because.....????


This is kinda the issue. It's normal to be skeptical, and like, this one in particular had a ton of glaring flaws that couldn't be explained rationally, but a large amount of people just, jumped in 100% without care, and I was in the tread at the time, I saw it for myself. No one questioned if it made any sense, it just meant, **** yeah Geno's in. Even the most convincing leaks needs a discerning eye, especially one with as many glaring flaws as this one, yet, people either ignored those flaws, or didn't care, because it told them what they wanted to hear.



And that's the problem. Whenever there was a Geno leak with some convincing elements, no matter how good or bad they were, like say, Sassy Geno, instead of being skeptical, a lot of people just went all in on "Geno confirmed". Not everyone, I'm not going to say everyone in the fandom did, but a large amount of the most vocal thread goers went all in on stuff like Cacomallow or the Gamespot leak, or he who should not be named or else Mods will get involved, and didn't even try to question its legitimacy, I've kept tabs on the thread for awhile, I know what I saw when things got crazy in hype over there.



Like, hell, even the Ken leak, probably the best picture leak we've ever had, still had a good amount of time of people questioning its legitimacy. Just because something seems convincing doesn't mean it's free from being scrutinized, and frankly, it should be to see if things don't add up. When dealing with leaks, the first thing to do isn't to say "CONFIRMED!!11!!1", it's to try to see if it holds up to scrutiny, and we need to remove our own personal bias and wants when doing so, because all that does is cloud our judgment. For example, the Ken leak held up to scrutiny, because people tested the glitches in the actual demo, and found them to be a match. Stuff like June 2020 Gamestop? Falls apart entirely just at a basic glance.



This isn't even a matter of "hype responsibly", it's a matter of "Let's make sure this isn't a fake leak before we start dancing in glee." And it feels like this just kept happening over and over again to the point of exhaustion and frustration.

 

[Geno Boost]

I feel kind of bad for anyone that may have wanted Cinderace but at the same time I am so grateful.

i dont feel bad about them honestly they are probably the same people who asked for Blaziken then moved on to Sceptile then moved on to Decidueye then now they are at Cinderace they are not loyal to what pokemon they actually want all they could think of is starters everytime its so lame when there are alot of way more interesting pokemon picks out there and all they could think of are starters.
I will not be surprised if next smash game gets announced then they move on to next gen starter

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Seems like Dread is doing numbers. Metroid is shaping up to be that one thing everybody predicts for base of Smash 6 before being excluded cause it was so early lol.

 

[osby]

i dont feel bad about them honestly they are probably the same people who asked for Blaziken then moved on to Sceptile then moved on to Decidueye then now they are at Cinderace they are not loyal to what pokemon they actually want all they could think of is starters everytime its so lame when there are alot of way more interesting pokemon picks out there and all they could think of are starters.
I will not be surprised if next smash game gets announced then they move on to next gen starter

Tfw everyone's trying to explain the bad reputation of Geno fans in a rational manner and then a guy with the puppet pfp comes and starts dunking on other support groups.

 

[Geno Boost]

Tfw everyone's trying to explain the bad reputation of Geno fans in a rational manner and then a guy with the puppet pfp comes and starts dunking on other support groups.

It’s just an opinion
But I prefer creativity regarding the kind of representation and it’s not a bad thing to say
And I say this as a Pokémon fan as well who did buy so many Pokémon games and enjoyed most of them

 

[Evil Trapezium]

i dont feel bad about them honestly they are probably the same people who asked for Blaziken then moved on to Sceptile then moved on to Decidueye then now they are at Cinderace they are not loyal to what pokemon they actually want all they could think of is starters everytime its so lame when there are alot of way more interesting pokemon picks out there and all they could think of are starters.
I will not be surprised if next smash game gets announced then they move on to next gen starter

Hey! I still want Decidueye and Sceptile in Smash! Rude.

 

[Geno Boost]

Hey! I still want Decidueye and Sceptile in Smash! Rude.

If you are loyal that’s good I am talking about the ones who aren’t loyal to what Pokémon they want

 

[Garteam]

This post summarize the result a japanese poll was made before they reveal CP5 (Byleth). It had +650 votes. This is top 20:

#2. Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby). 108 votes.

Bottom text.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Is it pretty logical to assume that Sora might've been that extra 11th fighter that might've been negotiated at the last minute a few years ago?

 

[Momotsuki]

How could have they done a better job translating ARMS to Smash?
This isn't a rhetorical question. I'd love to know, as somebody who doesn't really mind Min Min as much as most seem to.

 

[PSIGuy]

Is it pretty logical to assume that Sora might've been that extra 11th fighter that might've been negotiated at the last minute a few years ago?

Sora being finalized last would make sense, he's easily the most difficult character rights-wise.

But try this on for size - what if it was one of the OTHER characters who was negotiated on at the last second, so that Sora would be 13th and satisfy Nomura's demands for everything about Sora being 13? Eh? Eh?

 

[ProfPeanut]

How could have they done a better job translating ARMS to Smash?
This isn't a rhetorical question. I'd love to know, as somebody who doesn't really mind Min Min as much as most seem to.

It's really a tough question. The essential thing to consider is that ARMS is a metagame designed around every fighter having extendable fists and the ability to sidestep attacks very easily, creating an elaborate bait-and-punish meta game where carelessly throwing out punches drastically decreases one's options and opens them up to counterattack.

No matter who the ARMS rep, they were always going to be the sole fighter in Smash with extendable arms, giving them incredible power since long horizontal range is so powerful here. What would translate as a circle or oval to avoid in ARMS becomes a massive oblong of pain in Smash. So Min Min moves away from her home meta to become a zoner of a simple yet infuriating kind.