Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[DanganZilla5]

So I was just thinking about something. It looks like we won't be getting the Direct this week, and while we could likely get it next week, what if we didn't? Honestly if we don't get a general direct or a Sakurai Presents next week I'm calling sus on the next character. What I mean is that if we don't get a character reveal this month, I think it's possible that we could get the reveal at the Game Awards. The more time that passes, the more plausible this scenario becomes.

Keep in mind I'm not betting on this 100% since we could just get the reveal in October or November. But bare with me. If it turns out that the reveal is going to happen at the TGA, then that changes everything. Our frontrunners like Arle Nadja and Rean Schwarzer will suddenly drop down in chance since they are less likely to be revealed at a big event.

Considering that TGA is a western event, and judging from the two characters that have been revealed there, we could actually be seeing a big character get announced last for once. The two kinds of characters that I see as being likely to be announced here are western characters and Japanese characters that are popular in the West (Just like Joker and Sephiroth). With that in mind here are the characters that I think have a fair shot of being announced at TGA:

• Crash
• Master Chief
• Rayman
• Sora
• Eggman
• Possibly a Sony or Valve character

And then there are darkhorses like Phoenix Wright, a League of Legends character, and a Dynasty Warriors character. I think I might be blanking on other characters that I think have a good shot but these are the most notable ones to me at this moment.

But what do you all think?

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

After that “pay attention to Nahobino!!!” commercial that Atlus, IGN and Nintendo actually tried to pretend was a legit story trailer this morning I don’t see how anyone can think anything but Nahobino is basically a lock for Smash(and if you go to the comment section for the video you will see even more Smash talk than usual for a SMT V trailer because it is becoming obvious).

We literally already know there will be a full length story trailer for SMT V at the direct(showing off the dub and pushing the eShop sales for the game) because of last month’s “news” video for SMT V saying there will be another “news” video at the end of this month, so this “trailer” was completely pointless unless they just want more eyes on Nahobino.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Oh, don’t mind me.

Just waiting for the big reveal on the eventual announcement.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

The shoulder bash and motorcycle are arguably the best Wario got.

That and the booty slap. It may not be based on anything, but dang if it isn't funny.

Actually now that I think about it it's still a weird move to give Wario, and I agree that he should have some inspiration beyond "gotta go fast".

Barrels aren't even modern DK's thing tbh.


He can use them in his games sure, but they're way more associated with Classic DK, who's Cranky Kong, not modern DK.

As someone who was always looking for barrels during my playthrough of Donkey Kong Country returns, I strongly disagree. They're not as relevant to modern Donkey Kong, but they're still important to the games, and that's not even considering the barrel cannons, which are everywhere.

After that “pay attention to Nahobino!!!” commercial that Atlus, IGN and Nintendo actually tried to pretend was a legit story trailer this morning I don’t see how anyone can think anything but Nahobino is basically a lock for Smash(and if you go to the comment section for the video you will see even more Smash talk than usual for a SMT V trailer because it is becoming obvious).

We literally already know there will be a full length story trailer for SMT V at the direct(showing off the dub and pushing the eShop sales for the game) because of last month’s “news” video for SMT V saying there will be another “news” video at the end of this month, so this “trailer” was completely pointless unless they just want more eyes on Nahobino.

Not every game that Nintendo promotes is going to be in Super Smash Bros.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

So I was just thinking about something. It looks like we won't be getting the Direct this week, and while we could likely get it next week, what if we didn't? Honestly if we don't get a general direct or a Sakurai Presents next week I'm calling sus on the next character. What I mean is that if we don't get a character reveal this month, I think it's possible that we could get the reveal at the Game Awards. The more time that passes, the more plausible this scenario becomes.

Keep in mind I'm not betting on this 100% since we could just get the reveal in October or November. But bare with me. If it turns out that the reveal is going to happen at the TGA, then that changes everything. Our frontrunners like Arle Nadja and Rean Schwarzer will suddenly drop down in chance since they are less likely to be revealed at a big event.

Considering that TGA is a western event, and judging from the two characters that have been revealed there, we could actually be seeing a big character get announced last for once. The two kinds of characters that I see as being likely to be announced here are western characters and Japanese characters that are popular in the West (Just like Joker and Sephiroth). With that in mind here are the characters that I think have a fair shot of being announced at TGA:

• Crash
• Master Chief
• Rayman
• Sora
• Eggman
• Possibly a Sony or Valve character

And then there are darkhorses like Phoenix Wright, a League of Legends character, and a Dynasty Warriors character. I think I might be blanking on other characters that I think have a good shot but these are the most notable ones to me at this moment.

But what do you all think?

I think expecting to wait 6 months for 1 character at this point is just wilding, I cannot consider it possible as there's no reason why this could possibly take this long now that it's all the entire team's working on

 

[JOJONumber691]

Very simple. Money and Covid.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I still highly doubt Nahobino existed in a finalized state quick enough to even be considered.

 

[Idon]

Barrels aren't even modern DK's thing tbh.


He can use them in his games sure, but they're way more associated with Classic DK, who's Cranky Kong, not modern DK.

Just because they're more og DK's thing doesn't mean new DK still isn't super associated with them.
Every partner in DKC comes out of barrels, you throw barrels as a projectile, you get regularly launched out of barrels, your score bonus at the end of the stage is from beating up a giant barrel, DK rides a rocket powered barrel in flight sections...

Don't be mistaken, DK is still very much about barrels.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Very simple. Money and Covid.

Yes because even though every other character developed through COVID including Mr. "Every stage had to be reworked for me" was able to done in less than 6 months, this last one just suddenly has COVID complicate things too much, you don't even get a gold star as you clearly didn't try

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Firefox has frozen for the second time so I'm abandoning the tier list. Would've taken 5 years anyway.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Wow, haven’t seen the thread this active with Genuine Speculation for a while.

Theres a lot of Characters I want to see reworked, but the ones that really get on my nerves are

Samus isn’t a slow tank, shes been agile in the main series since Fusion.

Dark Samus needing to be an echo means her mountainload of moveset potential was tossed (though this completely understandable as she might not have made it into the game otherwise)

Ness and Lucas don’t actually have a lot of their moves in Earthbound or Mother 3. I think its a neat concept that they try to represent the other Mother characters through this, but I think it’d be way cooler if the characters themselves popped in to perform the move instead of Ness and Lucas just suddenly having them.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Just because they're more og DK's thing doesn't mean new DK still isn't super associated with them.
Every partner in DKC comes out of barrels, you throw barrels as a projectile, you get regularly launched out of barrels, your score bonus at the end of the stage is from beating up a giant barrel, DK rides a rocket powered barrel in flight sections...

Don't be mistaken, DK is still very much about barrels.

I mean, there are character barrels in every mainline Country game and ones that can be used as weapons in every one as well. There as associated with modern DK as eggs are with modern Yoshi titles.

 

[Wunderwaft]

I don't care what excuses anyone makes, give DK a barrel special so he can finally force others to approach with a projectile. This poor ape has had god awful neutral for the entirety of the Smash series and he needs some fix up.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I still highly doubt Nahobino existed in a finalized state quick enough to even be considered.

Actually...thinking about it a bit more...games take about 3-5 years to make, and if this is the final year of development, then he would have been picked 2/3-4/5 years into development, which would mean that they'd have a pretty good idea of what the character was going to be. Right?

If that logic is sound I think I will retract that statement. I still kinda doubt that we'll get a shill pick for a 3rd party, but I suppose it's possible.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Man, everyone saying thar DK is about barrels, but no one is willing to acknowledge how Star Fox is about barrels too. I'm disappointed in all of you.

I don't care what excuses anyone makes, give DK a barrel special so he can finally force others to approach with a projectile. This poor ape has had god awful neutral for the entirety of the Smash series and he needs some fix up.

He has no style
He has no grace
This Kong
Can't get in your face

 

[SKX31]

Conversely though, her gameplay design leaves something to be desired.

Samus is really the only one I don't like and wish they would change already.

It's a bit of a weird balancing act with her, since she does have most of the basic components already. It's just that Charged Shot / Missiles are perhaps too central to her moveset - which results in a lot of Samus players relying on those two a bit much. And while she does have responses up close (Screw Attack and Short Hop F-Airs being really good examples) those are usually used in the same situations most of the time.

I do kinda like Project M's idea here, perhaps add something to encourage some aggression like the Shine Spark. Something to spread the gameplay design around a bit.

Tbf the barrel thing is likely more than wanting a reference, characters like DK struggle to get in so a projectile that travels across the floor would help DK force approaches, though I agree everything else is fine now that he has the roll

I don't care what excuses anyone makes, give DK a barrel special so he can finally force others to approach with a projectile. This poor ape has had god awful neutral for the entirety of the Smash series and he needs some fix up.

I'm not entirely sure why they decided to make DK's normals so unsafe on hit at low %. That's an arguably bigger problem for him since he can't trade early without taking quite a lot of damage himself. That's another problem I'd look to allieviate to some extent with the barrels.

He's not in a super-bad state currently - he does decently well contesting vs. swordies for instance, he can kill pretty damn early even for a super-heavy (thanks to his spikes / set ups) and Cargo Throw gives him a lot of utility. But where it's rough it's really rough for him.

(Also, if one could use barrels in the air that'd help his disadvantage too. No more getting bullied by 's U-Air / 's Air Shooter constantly, which would be a plus.)

 

[MrJudd]

Are the Original 12's gameplay designs as outdated as people claim to be?

The TL;DR answer would be "depends on the character"

But here comes the long answer:

• Mario isn't as outdated as people claim him to be, with references being the issue, not the gameplay. Overall, I think one or two specials would change up, but nothing more than that. Super Mario is so big of a franchise that I don't think 2 Marios are enough to have all references, but there are other characters that could do them instead (like Toad)
• Luigi has fine normals and aerials that fit his personality and gameplay style, but specials would be reworked to have the Poltergust. In fact, some of his moves could easily be reframed to have the "same function", but use the machine in the animations.
• Link has 3 versions of himself, so him getting more and more BOTW representation isn't an issue considering the others got him covered. In fact, all of the weapons from BOTW could make an appearence (though keep the nod to the beam strike at 0% for side smash, that is a must) That said, this could also be a similar issue to Mario where someone else could take the job of referencing things.
• DK is already good enough as is gameplay wise: he already feels like a modern Smash character, only thing I'd really change is his Final Smash.
• Samus is the one I think deserves a rework the most: a lot of the material is not referenced, nor does the current moveset feels like I'm playing Metroid. As for Dark Samus, just becoming unique will already do wonders
• Yoshi is fine, only thing I find odd is his side-B, which could just be retooled to be one of Yoshi's transformations.
• Kirby is fine as well and just like Mario and Link, another character in the series could take the job of handling the rest of the references.
• Fox, Captain Falcon and Ness are perfect and probably won't ever need a change: the original playstyle feel so right with the characters that retooling it for the sake of references is a detriment. I could say maybe give Fox a different Final Smash from Falco, but that is it.
• Pikachu is problematic: there isn't anything inheritely wrong with his moveset, but I don't feel like I'm playing as Pikachu, if that makes sense. A deeper analysis is needed here to know if there is an issue or not.
• Jigglypuff is the opposite of Pikachu: people ask for him to change, but already feels right to play as. In this case, a deeper analysis would be needed to know if there is something cool to reference in the attacks without changing the function.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I don't care what excuses anyone makes, give DK a barrel special so he can finally force others to approach with a projectile. This poor ape has had god awful neutral for the entirety of the Smash series and he needs some fix up.

Sakurai: laughs in unsafe on hit

Wow, haven’t seen the thread this active with Genuine Speculation for a while.

Theres a lot of Characters I want to see reworked, but the ones that really get on my nerves are

Samus isn’t a slow tank, shes been agile in the main series since Fusion.

Dark Samus needing to be an echo means her mountainload of moveset potential was tossed (though this completely understandable as she might not have made it into the game otherwise)

Ness and Lucas don’t actually have a lot of their moves in Earthbound or Mother 3. I think its a neat concept that they try to represent the other Mother characters through this, but I think it’d be way cooler if the characters themselves popped in to perform the move instead of Ness and Lucas just suddenly having them.

Ehhhh, problem is that to my understanding, Lucas is the party support so he's got less to work with than what he's got now. Don't know for Ness but I believe he's supposed to be a bit of a tank for the party, which if that's true, I feel he should have a chubbier model as Itoi liked depicting stuff like that with a temporary party member in Earthbound being canonically gay and Duster having a disability

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ness and Lucas don’t actually have a lot of their moves in Earthbound or Mother 3. I think its a neat concept that they try to represent the other Mother characters through this, but I think it’d be way cooler if the characters themselves popped in to perform the move instead of Ness and Lucas just suddenly having them.

Ness actually has an official backstory as to why he can use these moves, but that's a neat idea. It might not make as much sense with how PK Thunder works though.

Ehhhh, problem is that to my understanding, Lucas is the party support so he's got less to work with than what he's got now. Don't know for Ness but I believe he's supposed to be a bit of a tank for the party, which if that's true, I feel he should have a chubbier model as Itoi liked depicting stuff like that with a temporary party member in Earthbound being canonically gay and Duster having a disability

IIRC, Ness has the highest HP, high utility with support PSI, and high damage with PSI Rockin.
EDIT: I think he has high melee damage as well.

 

[7NATOR]

I do think if Nahobino does get into Smash as CP11, there needs to be a Documentary or something about the Conspiracy between Nintendo, Atlus, Sega, Sakurai and the Team, etc. and the Psychological warfare they oppose on the mind of Gamers to prop up both Nahobino and SMTV

It would just seem interesting on how all of the elements come together if Nahobino were to get in Smash, and perhaps all of this is Nintendo's way of getting it's own Persona on Nintendo, which would pay off in a big way in the future. I think there can be many good lessons learned in terms of using the Psychology of the Human mind to get investment, Especially through means like Association (like Persona in Smash) and just good Advertisment

All I'm saying is regardless of Smash or not, Atlus and Nintendo are doing a real good job advertising the game, and the SMTV game looks very good and polished.

 

[Laniv]

Ooh, we're talking about characters that need updates? My favorite!!

I feel like the two OGs that need a moveset update the most are DK and Kirby. Like, Kirby has so many abilities in his home series like Ninja, Needle, Spark, Tornado, and most of his moves are... generic kicks?

And Donkey Kong just needs a barrel throw to be closer to canon. And have Takashi Nagasako voice him again!

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

I'm calling sus on the next character.

Ah ****, I can’t believe you’ve done this. You just confirmed that the final fighter is none other than -

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

Again if this isn't the right thread let me know and I could post it somewhere else. It's fairly ordered, and I made the Tier List maker at

Create a Smash Ultimate DLC Chances (Over 800 characters!) Tier List

Who do you think will be the last DLC fighter in Smash Brothers Ultimate? Or, if we get more DLC, who do you think will be added? You don't have to use everyone of course, but they're there in case you need them! Credit to Global Smash Roster for the images!

tiermaker.com

I think the first few tiers are pretty standard, but I honestly have a feeling we're going to exist in one of those "One in 14 million" timelines where someone like Adol Christin is added.

I'm baffled that this site treats any costume and assist trophy as hard deconfirmed, so you can't even add those to the list. That's no fun.

As for your list. You seem to have the right ideas at the top, and in the echo fighter tier. I can't say much for the rest, most of them aren't even worth the thought.

Also the only Golden Sun character I found on there is Felix and you didn't even place him. Tsk tsk.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I looked it up just for clarification, and according to WikiBound:

Ness has high Offense, and Amazing Guts (crit chance and chance of surviving a fatal hit), Vitality, and Luck (accuracy of certain items and evasion of certain enemy abilities), with his only below average stat being Speed. He has access to:

• Lifeup α, ß, γ, Ω (Heal)
• Hypnosis α, Ω
• PSI Rockin α, ß, γ, Ω
• Healing α, ß (Status Heal)
• Shield α, ß
• Paralysis α, Ω
• PSI Flash α, ß, γ, Ω
• Teleport α, ß

So, yeah. high damage, high HP, high utility. Ness OP.

Lucas doesn't have stats on the wiki, but he has access to:

• Offense Up α, Ω
• Defense Up α, Ω
• Lifeup α, ß, γ, Ω
• Shield α, Ω
• Healing α, ß, γ, Ω
• Counter α, Ω
• PSI Shield α, Ω
• PSI Counter α
• Refresh (Heal over time; Lucas exclusive)
• PK Love α, ß, γ, Ω
• PK Flash

Definitely a dedicated support character, though with PK Love he can do damage if he needs too, and I wouldn't be surprised if his physical damage was high as well.

Also if you don't know what the greek symbols mean, it's the tier of the PSI ability similar to Final Fantasy's Fire, Firega, Fireaga, etc.

 

[DanganZilla5]

Also if you don't know what the greek symbols mean,

It means that Mother and God of War are clearly connected.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It means that Mother and God of War are clearly connected.

cuts to a conspiracy theorist cork board with all of the media that use Greek symbols

"I see connections...EVERYWHERE!!!"

 

[Dukefire]

You know, I wouldn't be surprised if the crewmember from among us gets a Mii Costume.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

Not every game that Nintendo promotes is going to be in Super Smash Bros.

At best you can explain this by saying that Nintendo is treating SMT V like a first party title, but again, this “trailer” was completely worthless because the real trailer(PV04)is coming in a week or two during the direct because of the “news” video from last month saying there would be another one this month.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

At best you can explain this by saying that Nintendo is treating SMT V like a first party title, but again, this “trailer” was completely worthless because the real trailer(PV04)is coming in a week or two during the direct because of the “news” video from last month saying there would be another one this month.

If they just said "a trailer will be released this month" then this probably is the trailer.

 

[Theguy123]

At best you can explain this by saying that Nintendo is treating SMT V like a first party title, but again, this “trailer” was completely worthless because the real trailer(PV04)is coming in a week or two during the direct because of the “news” video from last month saying there would be another one this month.

last character is gonna be getting revealed in September or October by the maximum and is probably gonna be released by October. No way on earth it’s nahobino but if I’m wrong I’ll admit it. Timing wise makes no sense for him.

 

[Dukefire]

Well, the PlayStation presentation is coming next week (if I say it correctly.). So, September may not be the time for the Nintendo Direct to drop if this continues. Who knows, we can only wait to see the results soon......
Edit: Correction I did next post about the Playstation Presentation's date

Spoiler: This video makes you feel waiting is ENDLESS

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well, the PlayStation presentation is coming next week (if I say it correctly.). So, September may not be the time for the Nintendo Direct to drop if this continues.

The State of Play isn't going to affect Nintendo's plans on such short notice. Also, isn't it this week?

 

[Idon]

Well, the PlayStation presentation is coming next week (if I say it correctly.). So, September may not be the time for the Nintendo Direct to drop if this continues. Who knows, we can only wait to see the results soon......

Spoiler: This video makes you feel waiting is ENDLESS

... it's tomorrow.

 

[Dukefire]

The State of Play isn't going to affect Nintendo's plans on such short notice. Also, isn't it this week?

Ok, after looking up. It is this week on Thursday in the afternoon 1 PM PST.

Reason why I got confused was because of the twitter post using the calendar emote and I thought it was the 17th

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

If they just said "a trailer will be released this month" then this probably is the trailer.

It isn’t.

Atlustube didn’t even put this video on their channel.

The “news” videos only recap the PVs from the atlustube channel, so this is definitely not it.

This was just a video with a few new lines from Aogami while Atlus and Nintendo show you all of Nahobino’s powers(Smash moves) in the PVs so far.

But for real the thumbnail for the “Nahobino trailer” even makes Nahobino look exactly like a Smash character model. It’s going to happen.

 

[N3ON]

After that “pay attention to Nahobino!!!” commercial that Atlus, IGN and Nintendo actually tried to pretend was a legit story trailer this morning I don’t see how anyone can think anything but Nahobino is basically a lock for Smash(and if you go to the comment section for the video you will see even more Smash talk than usual for a SMT V trailer because it is becoming obvious).

We literally already know there will be a full length story trailer for SMT V at the direct(showing off the dub and pushing the eShop sales for the game) because of last month’s “news” video for SMT V saying there will be another “news” video at the end of this month, so this “trailer” was completely pointless unless they just want more eyes on Nahobino.

So, assuming the last character isn't Nahobino, are you going to stick around here and live with the reputation of being staunchly and memorably incorrect, or are you going to up and vanish?

And "it won't matter because Nahobino is getting in" isn't an answer, it's just compounding what I'm talking about.

 

[Phil | Lemon]

If they just said "a trailer will be released this month" then this probably is the trailer.

Atlus JP never uploaded the trailer, so I'm hesitant to believe the 'Nahobino' Trailer released earlier was even considered a 'numbered PV' in the same sense that the previous trailers have been. Not to mention the fact that each of the numbered PVs have shown new content to cover in the monthly 'Atlus SMTV News Broadcast' while this trailer revealed nothing new. I highly doubt this is the "trailer" they were referring to; not taking this as proof of Nahobino being a lock, just pointing out it is suspicious.

 

[BlondeLombax]

Is the top-of-the-site banner less saturated for anybody else? I‘ve only just noticed that it’s more grayed out than before.

Man, even the actual site is feeling the effects of the pre-finale burnout.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

It isn’t.

Atlustube didn’t even put this video on their channel.

The “news” videos only recap the PVs from the atlustube channel, so this is definitely not it.

This was just a video with a few new lines from Aogami while Atlus and Nintendo show you all of Nahobino’s powers(Smash moves) in the PVs so far.

But for real the thumbnail for the “Nahobino trailer” even makes Nahobino look exactly like a Smash character model. It’s going to happen.

That doesn't make it pointless though. Sometimes they just throw out short trailers that don't show off anything new, but look cool anyway to drive up hype.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with Super Smash Bros. since the game is never mentioned. This is chair theory level logic.

EDIT:

Atlus JP never uploaded the trailer, so I'm hesitant to believe the 'Nahobino' Trailer released earlier was even considered a 'numbered PV' in the same sense that the previous trailers have been. Not to mention the fact that each of the numbered PVs have shown new content to cover in the monthly 'Atlus SMTV News Broadcast' while this trailer revealed nothing new. I highly doubt this is the "trailer" they were referring to; not taking this as proof of Nahobino being a lock, just pointing out it is suspicious.

Alright then. It's not at all suspicious, but I stand corrected.

 

[Phil | Lemon]

That doesn't make it pointless though. Sometimes they just throw out short trailers that don't show off anything new, but look cool anyway to drive up hype.

And it has absolutely nothing to do with Super Smash Bros. since the game is never mentioned. This is chair theory level logic.

EDIT:

Alright then. It's not at all suspicious, but I stand corrected.

That's fair, it very much could just be a brief character trailer with no strings attached.

My gut is just telling me this is Atlus priming us for another big reveal (maybe the green guy on the cover) but I have no idea what it could be outside of one character.