Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[WeirdChillFever]

I'm sorry. I'm just kinda sad someone blatantly said that the speculation is more fun then playing the game.

SmashBoards has no Joy-Con drift

 

[Phil | Lemon]

A handful of trailers is not far more than everything they just said.

If he is referring to just the trailers that Nintendo have just boosted then yeah it's just a handful. Atlus on the other hand has been pushing SMTV harder then they've ever don for any game in their catalogue releasing a 'Demon Showcase" video daily without any pause, at least I've never seen anyone push a game this hard.

 

[N3ON]

That is just a remaster that was on every console.

While I agree that they should have at least given it a spirit because they did end a mini direct with it, SMT V and Nahobino are far more heavily promoted than that.

Ideally you don't want Nintendo to promote the game much if at all, like with Persona 5, Rare Replay, KoF14, FF7R, Minecraft, and Tekken 7. Because those make up 6/7 of the third-parties we've received. There's the real pattern.

Games Nintendo promotes? Monster Hunter, Bravely, No More Heroes, Dark Souls, Resident Evil, Shovel Knight, Skyrim... yeah, not a lot comes of those.

 

[Phil | Lemon]

Ideally you don't want Nintendo to promote the game much if at all, like with Persona 5, Rare Replay, KoF14, FF7R, Minecraft, and Tekken 7. Because those make up 6/7 of the third-parties we've received. There's the real pattern.

Games Nintendo promotes? Monster Hunter, Bravely, No More Heroes, Dark Souls, Resident Evil, Shovel Knight, Skyrim... yeah, not a lot comes of those.

If my memory serves me right, Nintendo promoted the heck out of DQ11S before the Smash release of Hero. He came off from my POV as a bonafide shill pick because of how they were pushing 11S. Again doesn't really mean much for Nahobino besides that SMTV's promotion by Nintendo sort of mirrors DQ's.

 

[Idon]

I'm sorry. I'm just kinda sad someone blatantly said that the speculation is more fun then playing the game.

Elite and QP smash are sometimes depression inducing.

 

[Theguy123]

That is just a remaster that was on every console.

While I agree that they should have at least given it a spirit because they did end a mini direct with it, SMT V and Nahobino are far more heavily promoted than that.

I can’t wait for our Metroid dread rep. Ya know, since the game is being heavily promoted by Nintendo. That must mean they’re getting a fighter, right. At least, that’s the logic being used here or does that only apply to SMT

 

[FreeFox]

To be fair, I think the complaint is a little bit of both, especially for characters like DK and Samus. You can absolutely make them more in line with their home series while still maintaing a cohesive playstyle.

Personally it's just so jarring to me seeing Samus - a character whose only melee attacks were introduced in her later appearances - attacking with corkscrew kicks and punching with her cannon arm. DK is a bit more stable, but I'd argue his specials have some of that problem too. I think it was Brawlfan who said that "it's as if the moveset was more based around what he is (a gorilla) than who he is (Donkey Kong)".

I think the 64 cast has mostly aged fine, with a few minor nitpicks I have. But looking at our current newcomers, especially the DLC ones, I can't help but wish they had a similar level of care applied to them, you know?

I think my main point of contention is whether the change is needed or if it isnt. The main reason I said its rather obtuse, its because most of the changes I read didnt seem to consider the implications and ramifications of a character changing its moveset. A character changing a move plays different. Even characters with really subtle differences like Lucina and Doctor Mario (for the moves that he shares with Mario) change completely how the character is played to the original.

I am not against all changes, I think the new smash attacks Ganondorf got were great additions to the character and completely feel in character. I just think the changes have to come from more than just an idea about retooling a character to better represent flavor. I think its also important that it covers a need that a character has and it enhances the experience while playing the character.

???
The only major thing Link really lost was the hookshot. The bomb has more utility than before (since you can control when it explodes), the bow and arrow has more utility (since he can pick up an arrow and fire two arrows at once) and his forward smash can send a beam now at 0%. Link got a straight-up upgrade overall in versatility.

When Smash Ultimate started to reveal the characters, there was discontent from some Link mains about the changes to the characters. That actually happened. If you need a more recent example, just a few weeks ago, there were people complaining about Charizard being back to being a part of Pokemon trainer and especially the lost of Rock Smash. There were also complains about Zelda and Sheik not returning to being a transformation character. Its not strange for someone to like certain things about characters and preferring them to stay that way. If you want, I could call one of those people to state their position here again if you dont believe me.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

View attachment 329732

Elite and QP smash are sometimes depression inducing.

at least i only pay with my sanity for smashboards. nintendo also charges money for their online

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Here's an excerpt of the meaning of Nahobino courtesy of Famitsu

"The most important documents to convey to future generations the Japanese mythology is " Kojiki " and " Nihon Shoki in", both but do you or have also differ in the description content in the same episode, for Nahobi two God, common to "or is It is written as "existence" to fix things. Chinese characters such as "禍" and "bend" are applied to "magatsu", but the point is that it is "straight" to "fix" it in the "(many) bent" state. It means to return to the state.

The Japanese word "fix" has "fix" and "cure", which is a bit confusing, but have you ever wondered why "fix" is "fix" in the first place? I think it's understandable to hear that it means to return the bent state to "straight"."

"The above "Naobi" is a description of "Kojiki" and is written as "Naobi" in "Nihon Shoki". "Naohobi / Naobi / Naomi" also refers to the day when "direct meeting" is held, and it is a word that is still alive even in modern times (although the scenes used are limited)."

"The role of Nahobino in mythology can be interpreted as the existence of repairing and even subduing Magatsuhi"

Basically the Nahobino's name meaning can be "Bringer of Light" or "Cleanser of Corruption" while the Magatsuhi is the thing that brings said corruption.

I had trouble reading that for whatever reason (I think it's a me thing), but I thought it was interesting. Still hate the name though.

Interestingly, I kind of like the sound of a hypothetical "Naohobino" rather than just "Nahobino". I dunno if the latter gives me the impression of an American trying badly to speak Japanese or it just sounds more pleasant to my ear.

If he is referring to just the trailers that Nintendo have just boosted then yeah it's just a handful. Atlus on the other hand has been pushing SMTV harder then they've ever don for any game in their catalogue releasing a 'Demon Showcase" video daily without any pause, at least I've never seen anyone push a game this hard.

Ah. That makes sense. Since the argument is about Nintendo's investment in the game though, I'd say only Nintendo's marketing push is relevant here.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

Ideally you don't want Nintendo to promote the game much if at all, like with Persona 5, Rare Replay, KoF14, FF7R, Minecraft, and Tekken 7. Because those make up 6/7 of the third-parties we've received. There's the real pattern.

Games Nintendo promotes? Monster Hunter, Bravely, No More Heroes, Dark Souls, Resident Evil, Shovel Knight, Skyrim... yeah, not a lot comes of those.

Other than Dark Souls all of those games and series got Smash content.

And the one 3rd party that did get advertising and a fighter was promoted less by Nintendo than SMT V.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I actually don't have a problem with her up air. It doesn't look any weirder to me than 's up air.

I... kinda do. The characters you named are more agile fighters with short-ranged weapons (all three use a kind of knife, no less).

Samus is a soldier in full power armor with an arm cannon. Her using the cannon as intended only in her FAir and Smash Attacks (and even then being short-range moves) and instead using acrobatic moves fit for other archetypes kinda drives me crazy. At least Dash Attack uses the boosters from the suit.

I think my main point of contention is whether the change is needed or if it isnt. The main reason I said its rather obtuse, its because most of the changes I read didnt seem to consider the implications and ramifications of a character changing its moveset. A character changing a move plays different. Even characters with really subtle differences like Lucina and Doctor Mario (for the moves that he shares with Mario) change completely how the character is played to the original.

I am not against all changes, I think the new smash attacks Ganondorf got were great additions to the character and completely feel in character. I just think the changes have to come from more than just an idea about retooling a character to better represent flavor. I think its also important that it covers a need that a character has and it enhances the experience while playing the character.

True - I've seen a lot of movesets where people cram references in with no concern for playstyle. Lockstin's Steve moveset kinda stuck out to me as an example of what not to do.

On the other hand, I remember Duke of Dorks had a pretty good Ganondorf rework idea that still kept him as the Triforce of Power-wielding king of disrespect he's meant to be while also doing it in a way that's a lot closer to the things you see Dorf doing in the Zelda games. What's not to love about these kinds of reworks?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

To be entirely fair, even Sakurai’s Steve moveset went over the edge complexity-wise.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'm sorry. I'm just kinda sad someone blatantly said that the speculation is more fun then playing the game.

SmashBoards has no Joy-Con drift

I was going to say Smashboards also doesn't have ****ty online, but I guess that part's more debatable......

 

[Shroob]

I'm sorry. I'm just kinda sad someone blatantly said that the speculation is more fun then playing the game.

I mean


I'd be lying if I said I put as much effort into playing the game as I do yammering online here lol.


This is one of my favorite parts of Smash. The sense of community as everyone sits around and waits for what comes next.

 

[Willbuysmash4mw]

I can’t wait for our Metroid dread rep. Ya know, since the game is being heavily promoted by Nintendo. That must mean they’re getting a fighter, right. At least, that’s the logic being used here or does that only apply to SMT

Ridley was the new Metroid character.

And while Dread is being promoted more by Nintendo than SMT V, SMT V is being promoted more overall than Dread and that is just insane.

There is no doubt in my mind that Atlus threw Nahobino in Sakurai’s face as soon as they could.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

SmashBoards is the inevitable result of having a yearning to create and analyse but despise being productive in any sense of the word

 

[Gnateb]

Ideally you don't want Nintendo to promote the game much if at all, like with Persona 5, Rare Replay, KoF14, FF7R, Minecraft, and Tekken 7. Because those make up 6/7 of the third-parties we've received. There's the real pattern.

Games Nintendo promotes? Monster Hunter, Bravely, No More Heroes, Dark Souls, Resident Evil, Shovel Knight, Skyrim... yeah, not a lot comes of those.

Other than Dark Souls all of those games and series got Smash content.

Me, goin hollow:

Dark Souls Dialogue - Solaire of Astora (incl. unused content)

http://fist.moe/shirts/ - Viddy Game Shirts!

youtu.be

Timestamp: 6:15

 

[BlondeLombax]

I'm sorry. I'm just kinda sad someone blatantly said that the speculation is more fun then playing the game.

Don’t worry, the good news is that speculation can get just as heated as the actual game, if not moreso, so there’s not really much to miss out on. Just look at all the chaos from last night (sorry if I was an instigator in that, BTW).

 

[Dinoman96]

Ideally you don't want Nintendo to promote the game much if at all, like with Persona 5, Rare Replay, KoF14, FF7R, Minecraft, and Tekken 7. Because those make up 6/7 of the third-parties we've received. There's the real pattern.

Out of those games, Minecraft is actually on the Switch, though.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Tomorrow is not only Crash's 25th anniversary, but also State of Play.

 

[FreeFox]

I'm sorry. I'm just kinda sad someone blatantly said that the speculation is more fun then playing the game.

I remember a tweet someone posted some time ago over here. It said "Sometimes it seems like the real smash game is rallying and speculating about the characters getting in rather than playing the game". Sometimes I feel he is right.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

When Smash Ultimate started to reveal the characters, there was discontent from some Link mains about the changes to the characters. That actually happened. If you need a more recent example, just a few weeks ago, there were people complaining about Charizard being back to being a part of Pokemon trainer and especially the lost of Rock Smash. There were also complains about Zelda and Sheik not returning to being a transformation character. Its not strange for someone to like certain things about characters and preferring them to stay that way. If you want, I could call one of those people to state their position here again if you dont believe me.

I don't think the fact that not literally everyone is going to vibe with changes means that changing a character is bad. Fighting game characters change between games. They just do. Super Smash Bros. doesn't like retooling characters often, and as far as I know the only retooling that people haven't liked is Falco's, because it doesn't really work all that well. Generally, it makes the characters better, or is a side grade.

And yeah, I know you're not going to please everyone. Charizard is a perfect example of this: There are people who wanted Pokémon Trainer back, as is the case with all veterans. Now that they are back, there are people who are complaining about Charizard fulfilling his original purpose. I don't think that means you shouldn't ever retool a character under any circumstance.

Other than Dark Souls all of those games and series got Smash content.

And the one 3rd party that did get advertising and a fighter was promoted less by Nintendo than SMT V.

They were only talking about fighters and weren't being serious.

Also what you pointed out kind of proves her point, jokey as it may be.

 

[Theguy123]

Ridley was the new Metroid character.

And while Dread is being promoted more by Nintendo than SMT V, SMT V is being promoted more overall than Dread and that is just insane.

There is no doubt in my mind that Atlus threw Nahobino in Sakurai’s face as soon as they could.

there’s no logic in this whatsoever. Especially when atlus themselves came out and threw sakurai under a bus when they said he went to them to get persona content specifically and never even batted an eye at any other fnrechsies they had.

your logic seems to evolve around sakurai going to atlus when picking joker and atlus letting sakurai choose an SMT rep as well which clearly didn’t happen thanks to the comments we had from the atlus board director

 

[FreeFox]

I don't think the fact that not literally everyone is going to vibe with changes means that changing a character is bad. Fighting game characters change between games. They just do. Super Smash Bros. doesn't like retooling characters often, and as far as I know the only retooling that people haven't liked is Falco's, because it doesn't really work all that well. Generally, it makes the characters better, or is a side grade.

And yeah, I know you're not going to please everyone. Charizard is a perfect example of this: There are people who wanted Pokémon Trainer back, as is the case with all veterans. Now that they are back, there are people who are complaining about Charizard fulfilling his original purpose. I don't think that means you shouldn't ever retool a character under any circumstance.

Of course not. I just dont believe in changing everything for the sake of change or flavor. I believe change should also be meaningful and enhancing.

 

[N3ON]

If my memory serves me right, Nintendo promoted the heck out of DQ11S before the Smash release of Hero. He came off from my POV as a bonafide shill pick because of how they were pushing 11S. Again doesn't really mean much for Nahobino besides that SMTV's promotion by Nintendo sort of mirrors DQ's.

Ah yes the great exception - everyone's favourite lynchpin to write off precedent.

Remember how Grant Kirkhope was disingenuous about Banjo's inclusion? That's going to colour every truthful statement from a dev from here on out.

Remember getting Terry and people basically believing nicheness was no longer a relevant factor? Well after him came Steve, Sephiroth and Kazuya, so maybe he was more an exception than a trend.

Truthfully Hero's depiction was probably informed by promotion, but his actual inclusion wasn't. As the singular character Smash treats him, he's the sole protagonist of every main DQ game. He probably would've been sought after even if DQ11 wasn't on a Nintendo system. The character we got was "Hero", not just Luminary. And it's hard to make comparable claims about a character in a game that's not even out, especially when existing characters like Demi-Fiend or Flynn or even Jack Frost can serve the primary purpose Hero served, which was to bring representation to his series. Promotion was likely an incidental opportunity.

But even if we look past who Hero is and who Nahobino isn't and suggest it was entirely promotional, you have to cast aside the fact that the other six very much weren't, nor were nine of the previous ten (and that's without really delving into Bayo's situation), to value Nintendo's promotion of third-parties as a highly pertinent factor and not just something which at best is very uncommon, and at worst, a very large and very red herring.

If Nahobino's timing was more conducive to inclusion, it's not like it'd be a ridiculous suggestion to get him - but leveraging promotion to argue for him is invoking a factor which has proved irrelevant significantly more than not. It's a hail mary, not a solid point. And you can see that by looking at all the times it's amounted to nothing instead of looking at the sole time it may have been relevant.

Also, my post was a joke.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Barrels aren't even modern DK's thing tbh.

That's not true at all. Barrels in modern DK are your mushrooms and your flagpoles. And barrels blasting is still prevalent.

 

[subterrestrial]

Not to mention the Poltergust 5000 from Luigi’s Mansion 3 already appearing in Luigi’s Smash moveset and Simon/Richter’s trailer. What the exact time gap between those things is eludes me but 1. that might help deciding what is feasible wrt Nahobino 2. bring on the King Boo conspiracies

its foreshadowing

luigi literally turns into a ghost

 

[Shroob]

That's not true at all. Barrels in modern DK are your mushrooms and your flagpoles. And barrels blasting is still prevalent.

I guess I worded this wrong, but I've always found Modern DK's barrels to be more like, I dunno, blocks in Mario. They're an iconic part of the series, but not the main focus.


When I think Classic DK, of course I think Barrels.


But Modern DK just has such a bigger focus on bananas it's hard to not think about bananas first and foremost in regards to Modern-era DK.

 

[N3ON]

Other than Dark Souls all of those games and series got Smash content.

And the one 3rd party that did get advertising and a fighter was promoted less by Nintendo than SMT V.

Are you suggesting SMTV will get a character or are you suggesting it will simply get content? Because that sounds like goalpost moving from your driving point of playability.

Out of those games, Minecraft is actually on the Switch, though.

Right... but that's not what I was arguing.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The only rework I really want in the OG 12 is for Mario to replace FLUDD with Cappy. And maybe for Luigi to get more Luigi's Mansion-centric.

I guess I worded this wrong, but I've always found Modern DK's barrels to be more like, I dunno, blocks in Mario.

Question blocks? Yes. Brick blocks? no.

As your companions are your super mushroom/fire flower equivalent. And they come from barrels.

 

[Shroob]

Question blocks? Yes. Brick blocks? no.

Yeah, definitely question blocks.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

SmashBoards is the inevitable result of having a yearning to create and analyse but despise being productive in any sense of the word

Wha- I pht- I'll have you know that I do not despise being productive!

I'm just really bad at it because I wanna know if the Nintendo Direct's happening and then I get detracted all day for checking here once.

Of course not. I just dont believe in changing everything for the sake of change or flavor. I believe change should also be meaningful and enhancing.

Well, in my mind, there are three (I thought of more but forgot some) reasons to change up a Super Smash Bros. character:

1. To combat design creep. This one's a bit hard to explain, but I think the closest thing is that the way that the newer characters are designed makes the love for them really shine through, and you don't quite get that with some of the older character designs. Not all of them of course, but some of them.
2. To fix their designs. Roy was bad, so his moveset was retooled to fix the problems. This happens a lot in the series, but it's often not enough to actually fix them.
3. Because you're forced to. This doesn't happen often, and is the least desirable reason.

I do think a lot of the same broad strokes design conclusions should be kept though since no character is designed completely unfaithfully. If you were to change them too much, then you probably would be missing the point; there's a reason why they were the way that they were.

I guess I worded this wrong, but I've always found Modern DK's barrels to be more like, I dunno, blocks in Mario. They're an iconic part of the series, but not the main focus.


When I think Classic DK, of course I think Barrels.


But Modern DK just has such a bigger focus on bananas it's hard to not think about bananas first and foremost in regards to Modern-era DK.

I guess that makes sense, but Donkey Kong does still have enough to do with them that it would warrant being in his moveset.

 

[subterrestrial]

what if DK side b was the exact same but a barrel instead of a headbutt ?

DK is already the only character that can jump with a barrel, why not let him summon one mid match? (shield+b)

maybe also let him break it open for bananas like diddy?

 

[Baba]

what if DK side b was the exact same but a barrel instead of a headbutt ?

DK is already the only character that can jump with a barrel, why not let him summon one mid match? (shield+b)

maybe also let him break it open for bananas like diddy?

DK should absolutely have barrel throwing and getting launched out of a barrel as parts of his moveset.

 

[FreeFox]

what if DK side b was the exact same but a barrel instead of a headbutt ?

DK is already the only character that can jump with a barrel, why not let him summon one mid match? (shield+b)

maybe also let him break it open for bananas like diddy?

I will make an alternative suggestion for a projectile even if its an oldie. We got K. Rool so why not another reference from 64?

"The Coconut Gun.

It fires in spurts.

If it shoots ya it's gonna hurt."

 

[DarthEnderX]

So, assuming the last character isn't Nahobino, are you going to stick around here and live with the reputation of being staunchly and memorably incorrect, or are you going to up and vanish?

It's probably an alt account anyway. He and Wah are probably the same dude, trying to cover his bases.

Ah yes the great exception - everyone's favourite lynchpin to write off precedent.

Right, cause...that's how it works.

Patterns with exceptions aren't really patterns.

 

[Gnateb]

I'm pretty sure they're MegatenHistory/CerusSerenade from GameFAQS too

 

[subterrestrial]

DK should absolutely have barrel throwing and getting launched out of a barrel as parts of his moveset.

yea barrel cannon would be a cool up b

hopefully they revamp him in the next game

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Just out of curiosity, what is Donkey Kong's Headbutt used for?

• Storm Punch is just a big callout hit, which I think makes total sense for him (other than the fact that he looks super pissed off, he's not generally an angry character)
• Hand Slap is...I dunno if it has much use either, but it's one of his signature moves so I'm not really mad at it.
• Spinning Kong I think is a reference to Dixie Kong's hair twirl.

Headbutt is the only thing that isn't really in the games, and also doesn't really seem to have a purpose.

It's probably an alt account anyway. He and Wah are probably the same dude, trying to cover his bases.

Perhaps it's the profile picture coloring my perception, but I don't think they speak in the same manner.

 

[Deleted member]

Tbh the only reason I put any stock into Nahobino is because this is the last character and they've historically been promotional picks. Other than that there's nothing that sets him apart from the rest besides his luscious locks. Either way I'm hype for SMT V but the last smash character is a mystery as usual.